there’s nothing radical about radical feminism

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[genderkoolaid]

it is truly wild that people will say "if you think trans men are in a materially different class under patriarchy than cis men, you must not think they are real men!" with full earnestness and not realize what it is they are actually saying.

idk my friend, if you need to pretend that trans men don't have materially different experience of patriarchy & are classed differently under patriarchy than cis men, in order to see trans men's manhood as real? i don't think your line of thinking is much different than TERFs who stubbornly refuse to admit that trans women are also have a materially different experience of patriarchy & are classed differently than cis men.

in both cases, rather than acknowledging how the cissexism in feminism has led to the erasure of how fundamental queerphobia and transphobia is to upholding patriarchy, you are clinging to that very cissexism, and privileging the experiences of cis people over trans people and basically blatantly stating that it is the experiences of cis people which define what it means to be a "real" man or woman.

except at least TERFs are being transphobic on purpose; you are trying to act like the real transphobia is acknowledging that. being trans matters when it comes to gender in society???????? this is what happens when you only care about the trans-exclusive part of being anti-TERF and not the radical-feminist part.

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[radioactive-yuri]

im so fucking tired of "transmasc is when afab trans and transfem is when amab trans" IM NOTTT TRANSMASC AND IF YOU REFER TO ME AS SUCH I WILL CONSIDER IT MISGENDERING. STOP THINKING IN BINARIES. STOP THINKING IN THE FALSE BOY-MASC-FEM-GIRL SPECTRUM. MASC MEANS MASCULINE. FEM MEANS FEMININE. I AM NEITHER. I AM ANDROGYNOUS. I AM NONBINARY. NOT MASC-LITE. CAN YOU FUCKING STOP

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[hapalopus]

I reeeeaaalllyy don't like how widespread gender realism is in supposedly feminist circles on this website. You are one step away from becoming a radfem.

[hapalopus]

"Woman" is a socially constructed category and "women" have nothing intrinsic in common, other than viewing themselves as whatever "woman" is defined as in their society, or being judged by the standards of whatever "woman" is defined as in their society. Gender is as "real" of a category as race or neurotype, which is to say, it's not objectively real at all. It's an artificial category created on the basis of perceived shared traits among certain people. The people came first, they were grouped into their artificial category later. There are no intrinsic differences between men or women or nonbinary or multigender people.

[hapalopus]

Do you actually believe gender is a social construct or are you just mindlessly repeating the phrase because it sounds cool

[dykepuffs]

Watching the queer way of interacting with gender go from "Gender is a social construct that can be fun to play with but at heart is a dangerous toy because it has been used for generations to oppress and divide people." To "Everyone has a perfect crystal of true gender which you must deeply introspect to discover, and you can be wrong about its nature." Has been a disaster.

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[lastoneout]

Sorry we really went from free the nipple, take back the night, slut walks, and ending gender/sex segregation in sports being fucking milquetoast feminism 101 concepts to fucking girl dinner and "I just worry about fairness if we let trans girls play against cis ones" and "it was right of that woman to call the cops on a black man for existing near here in public during the day time because men are all violent monsters" and "radical feminism isn't transphobic we just need to kill all men including trans ones those oppressive traitors" and I will legit never be able to be normal about it. What the FUCK happened. I'd say I wonder what the feminists of my youth would say about this but I'm one and lemme tell ya I want to throw up. Go fucking read bell hooks or do something else useful please because all of this learned helplessness, gender essentialism, and transphobia dressed up as feminism is actively holding us back.

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[cheaphalloweencostume]

im so sick of unnecessary dinner scenes in movies 😡 every fucking movie they just want to titillate you with some food because they think you’re a dumb animal who just wants to see mashed potatoes bouncing. if its an IMPORTANT dinner scene where they explain lore then whatever i understand. but they shove useless meals into every movie these days and its disgusting

[cheaphalloweencostume]

really? you don’t say

[immigrant]

its true though sex scenes are bad and you only are defending them cuz you wont question that men put their fetishes into everything. movies by women literally just dont have sex scenes and if rhey do its not gratuitous and lasts two seconds or its played for comedy . Fuck you and your dinners idc bro

[cheaphalloweencostume]

movies by women literally just dont have sex scenes

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[thequeenoftheentiregoddamnworld]

Hey, hey, look me in the eyes when I tell you this okay? The whole "do trans women or trans men have it worse?" debate going on right now is the most obvious CIA bullshit on earth cause honestly we've both got it pretty shitty and fighting each other isn't helping anyone

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[walks-the-ages]

[ID: A 90s style T rex on a skateboard with sunglasses, with text that reads "there's nothing radical about radical feminism" end ID]

[basileater]

ive always been willing to die on the hill of cis women being able to beat cis men in sports so nobody will ever ever make me concerned about trans women in womens sports even if i was delusional enough to believe that was a comparable situation. do i think a cis woman could beat a trans woman in fucking pickleball or whatever? Buddy I think a cis woman could beat a cis male bodybuilder in sports. You will not get me

[basileater]

many people in these notes are revealing how they truly don't believe afab people are capable of beating amab people at Any sports due to their fragile bird bones delicate skin and and trying to make it seem like i'm feeding afab people to lions in the coliseum. you people are not only wrong but more importantly you are Stupidt

[postmodernmulticoloredcloak]

whenever female athletes in a sport start getting similar resources to the men (funding and training comparable to the men's ever since childhood) the difference in performance between the men and the women starts decreasing.

if female athletes are not paid enough to make a living of their sport/require to have a side job for healthcare or retirement funds, they won't be able to reach the same level of athleticism as the men, as they will spend less time and energy training.

if female athletes start getting high pay/professional levels of training later in life compared to the boys', they won't reach the same level of athleticism as male athletes who have been training at high levels from a younger age.

if the best facilities and best coaches go to the men, the women won't reach the same level as the men.

if girls who do sports are not taken as seriously as boys are (do not receive special permits to leave school earlier to go training, etc), the women won't reach the same level as the men.

as long as female athletes and male athletes have different levels of opportunities, we won't actually know if there is a substantial "natural" difference in average across men's and women's performances.

i mean, look at professional ballet dancers. those girls undergo hellish training since a very young age and ballet obviously does not consider female dancers a lesser category of dancers. look at what female ballet dancers do with their bodies while pretty much starving themselves. what do you think a woman can do if she receives rigorous high-quality training since childhood and also eats?

[screambirdscreaming]

As per prev tags - Throwing Like a Brazilian: On Ineptness and a Skill-shaped Body, by Greg Downey

Is the most thoughtful and coherent interrogation I've read of how physical skills are developed, and how the development of skills is located in cultural expectation, teaching, support, and self-concept, as well as physically shaping the body through practice.

It spins off from a response to a feminist touchpoint essay of the 1980s, "Throwing Like a Girl" by Iris Marion Young, which examines the stiffness and lack of whole-body engagement in girls asked to throw a projectile, and relates this to the pressures of self constraint and self-conscious over-awareness of the body forced on girls.

Downey approaches the topic from noticing that the Brazilian capoeiristas he's training with - who are extraordinarily physically skilled across a range of specific skillsets - are not very good at throwing or catching projectiles. And, more specifically, that the way in which they throw when asked to - stiff, without whole body engagement - exactly matches what Young (and others) have characterized as "throwing like a girl".

Which means that it's not (or not only) a function of self-consciousness, or of an undeveloped sense of body integration - rather, it's the way people throw at the very early stages of learning to throw a projectile.

Which makes the question, then, what is it about the author's own (North American) society, that produces such a disparity in learning experiences between boys and girls - such that even girls who have nominally been taught to throw a ball, have broadly not actually been taught past the very first steps, by ages where their male peers have?

And how is it that this difference in experiences is so obscured, that people fail to recognize the points at which it occurs?

The essay delves into the specifics of these questions with a lot more depth and nuance than I can summarize here. Overhand throwing is a complex skill which is developed in many stages, using this process as a case study, Downey looks at factors ranging from access to coaching through difficult parts of the process, to gendered differences in the opportunity for rowdy, whole-body play.

I really reccomend reading the whole essay. I can't find a fully online version of the whole text, but the website "academia.edu" will let you download it with a free account (use a junk email, they send spam.)

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[manykinsmen]

“men can’t be oppressed” -> men of colour

“white men can’t be oppressed” -> gay men

“heterosexual men can’t be oppressed” -> trans men

“cis-het men can’t be oppressed” -> intersex men

“perisex men can’t be oppressed” -> disabled men

“able-bodied men can’t be oppressed” -> neurodivergent men

“cis-het perisex white able-bodied neurotypical men can’t be oppressed” -> buddy let me tell you about wealth and class and homelessness and immigrants and minority languages and cultures and being a child and being an elderly person and and and

we can keep doing this all day but the reality of the world is that very few people don’t face any kind of oppression at all and everyone exists in a complicated, intersecting web where they have privileges over some people in some contexts and some others are have privilege over them in other contexts. no one individual is incapable of enacting oppression and if you think that about yourself you need to go away and interrogate that belief.

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[intersexelphie]

I want to boost everything this person has said and add on.

The reason I call myself a tomboy now, despite it being seen as a childish word and having had someone swear at me over it because ‘tHeRe’S nO suCh thInG as BoY thInGs anD giRL thIngS sHut uP’ is because I couldn’t call myself that or be like that when I was a kid. It was seen as a negative thing and I was already bullied enough. “Looking like a boy” was the worst thing that could happen to a girl.

And I’m not even 26 yet. We aren’t talking 30+ years ago, we are talking 2000s and even 2010s. It’s only since trans people have become more accepted in the past few years that gender nonconformity has too.

And the people who helped me accept my gender nonconformity more than anyone else? Were trans people. They taught me, “there’s nothing wrong with how you feel. You’re still a valid woman no matter what you wear, how you have your hair or what you’re into ❤️”

And don’t even get me started on how people treat gender nonconforming men. JK Rowling has a lot of nerve to be like “uwu boys can wear dresses and only us gendercrits accept that!” when she has, even in recent works, made femininity in men a negative trait, as well as making masculinity in women a negative trait also.

A lot of people still don’t accept gnc people even now. Just last year I had someone tell me they’d never let their daughter “dress like a boy”, and I’m always terrified to walk into a bathroom in case the next JK Rowling is in there, sees my gender expression and pepper sprays me or worse.

“There’s no such thing as boy things and girl things.” I don’t need to be told that and I’m sure 99% of trans people also don’t need to be told that. Tell that to the society that hates us both instead of actively encouraging that hate.

[androgynealienfemme]

Gonna point out the og tweet thread is now full of terfs saying that life was better for gay people in the fucking 80s, that it was super easy for them to be a tomboy in the 70s and 80s and therefore it must have been that way for everyone, and that it was totally acceptable to be a gnc gay person in the 80s! 🤪

They’re rewriting history as we speak to try to argue trans acceptance is making it harder to be gay and gnc for youth than it was to be gay in the 80s. This is a blatant lie.

[trans-mask-left]

The fucking 80s??? As in, “aids crisis” 80s?? As in, “the government actively avoided funding research to help gay people” 80s????

Man I knew terfism was brain rot but I didn’t think it was this bad.

[socialistexan]

Actually I'm not going to just keep this in the tags

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[sodomit]

There's something very nasty in how a specific type of binary trans women (the ones that will take offense if you refer to them as binary) will see an artistic representation of a femme with some masculine physical features and immediately go "this is an offensive caricature on me". Even when the art is done with clear kind and uplifting intent by another trans person. And even though there are countless trans men, nonbinary and intersex people of any gender inclination, who look like that and want to look like that.

Right now it's happening again because of this picture. Neither of these characters have known genders, by the way.

Twitter is exploding over it, and I'm just here wondering, what entitles them to imagine it as a message towards them? As opposed to literally anyone it applies much better to?

I also feel like there would be way less controversy here if that character wasn't fat. Just saying.

[vergess]

It's also unbelievably cruel to the exact type of binary High Femme women making those comments.

See, they are alllllllll about "cracking eggs" and "helping girls find themselves" and shit, until there's an illustration of what is very clearly someone getting their makeup applied in a femme style by a trusted companion for the first time.

Then it's all about how this Obviously Very Early In Transition Person In An Intimate Setting is filth, nasty, gross, disgusting.

Now what, exactly, is a feminine trans woman who has been denied all access to femininity for her entire life supposed to think, when all the other girls like her are calling her a disgusting, harmful monster for existing in her own body?

What the fuck is the trans girl trying on her little sister's makeup for the first time supposed to feel when she looks in the mirror and instead of seeing the first beautiful glimpse of her future, she sees thousands of other trans girls calling her an insult to their existence?

Even if we take these bigoted women at their words?

They're also still hurting the goddamn trans girls they claim to be defending, because radical feminism teaches you to eat other women alive.

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[torturequeen]

I’ve never met somebody’s boyfriend who deserved to live

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[prometheist]

the way anti-trans people speak about us, I’ve noticed that they don’t actually treat trans men and trans women that differently. They simply focus their energy on different age groups. When trans men are discussed, we are only children. Teenage/tween trans men are the main focus of transandrophobia from these groups, because we fit the agenda of “vulnerable delicate women” who are harder to view as men or people with agency. We are less likely to pass and more likely to have mental health issues, and therefore are easier to pass off as defective and hysterical girls.

meanwhile, trans women are almost exclusively framed as middle-aged or older. This allows them to be viewed as more mature and cunning compared to younger people. In addition, older women are less likely to fit traditional beauty standards, so this gives them an easier time making a “gross ugly predator” argument.

however, when forced to acknowledge trans people of other age groups, they pretty much stick to the same playbook. Older trans men are no longer treated as pitiable women, but as some sort of gross third gender, similar to trans women. They are considered part of the ring of predators trying to steal your children. And, importantly, are considered ugly. Transitioned trans men are not seen as attractive to “normal” men or women. conversely, young trans women are treated very similar to young trans men. The “they’re trying to cut off your son’s dick” line is well-used. And they are not treated as a weird third gender like adult trans people, and rather are categorized as vulnerable boys being preyed upon by the “actual villains”, adult trans women.

the purpose of this post is to point out that neither trans men or women are privileged for the way that we’re treated. Adult trans men experience very similar treatment as adult trans women, and vice versa. Transphobes do not want you to know that. They want you to think their agenda is to protect trans men and ostracize trans women, because that makes them seem less hateful. But their actual treatment of us contradicts that.

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]

[imjunebitch]

if u call urself a misandrist I'm going to assume ur homophobic. I'm gonna assume that ur at the very least weird about trans women like me, that you're going to judge them based on how they pass, on how out they are, on what level of transition they are at. I'm gonna assume ur racist too. like. idk "misandry" very feels like the sorta "feminism" someone is really into when they're in high school and carefully making sure to never think about anything.

[imjunebitch]

and do you believe yourself to be an unfailing arbiter of who that is? and is it truly all cishet men? do you hate men of color, if they are cishet? what about intersex men? why not just hate bigoted people? why find groups of people, groups big enough to undoubtedly contain marginalized people?

[ipostradicalfeminismisntrad]