How do you feel about the old school baby Vegeta from the Bardock special vs the new era baby Vegeta, personality, story and design wise? The old school child Vegeta seems more stone-cold in a serious, brooding way while the new one is more cheeky, smirky and mischievous. From what I gather the notion that Vegeta was Frieza's favorite or somehow special to him is also a bit of an anime invention. The new lore has Vegeta ignore Frieza's order to gather with the rest of the sayans, which seems more in line with the manga where Frieza simply thought Vegeta would be useful but he wasn't very fascinated with him like the anime implies. The old lore is more poignant and dramatic (Frieza specifically takes Vegeta from his father, ect), which isn't very Toriyama, but there's just something gripping about it that the new lore lacks because the focus is solely on the Bardock family with little emphasis on Vegeta's tragedy. What do you think?
It’s been a loooooong time since I’ve seen the Bardock special, but my interpretation of Vegeta and Freeza’s dynamic actually stems from their scattered dialogue in the Namek Saga (and Res F), and their character archetypes being parallel overall as villains in similar situations! I honestly don’t remember a ton from the anime, but I’m certain I’ve also borrowed from my memory of it, just like my memory of them removing Vegeta’s tail was actually just anime-specific dialogue lol But iirc Dodoria does straight up say in the manga that Vegeta was specifically chosen to survive it, and in the new lore Freeza waves off waiting a month for everyone to get back, so I don’t think that’s necessarily been retconned. In both versions Freeza did still more or less ensure that even if Vegeta was on his way back he didn’t make it in time to die.
I will say though, this is a really good example of what I mean when I say Toei and Toriyama’s Vegeta are completely different men. Because iirc (and I might not, feel free to correct me), Toei’s Vegeta was really close to his father. He watched Frieza abuse his dad, he tried to stop Beerus from humiliating his dad, that Vegeta does experience more of an isolating tragedy because there was at least one person he genuinely cared about who died when the planet was destroyed.
Toriyama’s Vegeta does not feel that way about his father. Even in the old lore, Vegeta only brings up his heritage when he’s dying and never says his father’s name. When Freeza talks about killing him, Vegeta’s like, “okay and?? He wasn’t strong that’s not a brag” and I believe him when he tells Dodoria he doesn’t care about his parents or comrades, he cares that he was lied to and fell for it. In the new lore Vegeta says he has no memories of his father training with him, and what we see of King V is him also planning to hone Vegeta as a vessel for his interests. I think Toriyama’s King Vegeta was a good leader and a bad father (and I like to think that’s where Vegeta’s judgement of Goku’s parenting comes from), but Vegeta wasn’t close to him, and I really don’t think even now he feels a terrible loss for the people. Even when he meets Broly in the manga there’s a bonus gag of Goku asking about it and Vegeta’s like “No I definitely feel like this is my father’s fault.” I just don’t get the impression that they were ever bonded beyond blood in Toriyama’s lore.
I’m also in the camp of believing that comedy makes drama a deeper contrast, so I really enjoy that young Vegeta who’s in the thick of this super traumatic life responds to his homeworld being eradicated with
Because Bardock introduces Vegeta to that story by saying he’s a piece of shit work, and he’s like. Five??? Years old??? Super funny choice imho
and it also allows that path of Toriyama’s Vegeta continuing to be that confident snarky meangirl of a warrior who starts to unravel the second the ground under his feet shifts during the fight on Earth, and the more these truths are revealed to him the more he has to acknowledge and cope with, until we get this really incredible character growth where he’s still holding himself and his people accountable as villains while recognizing that he started out in an unfair position (just like Granolah), and that origin story doesn’t mean he has to keep himself callous and vengeful in order to be strong.
I think Toei’s dramatic version where Vegeta is alone and hearing the news and left to absorb it in isolation creates a different character than one who heard it, was immediately low-key praised for saving their lives by making a selfish choice, then responds with the most selfish possible revelation while the adults around him freak out about the much larger loss of their world. One suggests the idea that he was cold before but this nailed the coffin shut and he’s truly alone now, and the other suggests that Vegeta was cold before he lost everything, and also that he’s going to have to be the one wrangling the adults in the room who are much more frazzled by it, which lends itself to (my interpretation of, at least,) Toriyama’s characterization better overall imho. But Toei’s lends itself to Toei’s characterization! So it’s really just a matter of preference.
Toriyama’s version of the story is 10+ years old (re: DB Minus), and I know he liked the invention of Bardock, but like most of his fix-its when it comes to the Toeiverse, that version of the story likely never fit his version of the story, which is why he changed it when he wrote his own. So it’s not a lack or gain for me. They’re just very different characters traveling the same plot lines, and they always have been.
My take is that it wasn’t a tragedy for Vegeta — to Vegeta — when it happened. It was a failure and proof of weakness, and weak people die. I personally think it took until Namek for Vegeta to process it as something that hurt him, and I think that learning it was intentional and that he failed anyway drove that nail through his chest far enough to prove he was capable of having a bleeding heart. And then I think it took him even longer to detangle all the other things that meant for him and his upbringing.
I personally like that Vegeta had no reason to suspect Freeza of destroying his most effective stockpile of assets (Saiyans), and never knew about his animosity for Saiyans, even if he knew about everyone else’s (iirc either Zarbon or Dodoria is the one to tell him Freeza was afraid of the Saiyans? I’m being lazy not looking it up fjdjd). I really love the idea that Vegeta has a little bit of cognitive disconnect when it comes to Freeza (I’m biased because I also love the idea that he hesitates in ResF because he’s never Seen Freeza desperate before and just assumed he would accept his execution like the proud warrior he thought Freeza was — all those years of seeing Freeza as a lion and even after being lied to he never thought to prepare for Freeza being a weasel), so I do personally prefer Toriyama’s version to Toei’s (because even when I was a kid I remember wondering how it was a secret at all to anyone that it was Freeza’s doing, but maybe there’s cognitive disconnect there too!), but again, it’s not a gain or a loss. They’re just entirely different men in entirely different stories sharing the same general plot points and they’re both equally canonical and necessary for their own universes.