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@iwatch2muchminecraft
It hurts like hell that Crowley got all the comforting and all the words of love and devotion, while Aziraphale, across the entire 90 minutes, didn’t hear anything like that from Crowley at all. And from God, the only things he heard were that he was prideful, gluttonous, and deceitful. Fuck off with that.
i am at the point now in my post-s3 grief where just seeing positive takes about it pisses me the fuck off.
you enjoyed the finale. thats great. have a gold star. everyone is entitled to feel the way they feel about it. but I just dont understand it. I dont understand the positivity surrounding it. I feel like people are fucking clutching at straws or something trying to make it good in their heads when the reality is that everybody got the fucking infinity war ending. they got thanos snapped out of bloody existence and they didnt come back. no. they rebooted the universe.
im a marvel nerd so forgive this comparison but...you know not even the avengers wanted to do that? the avengers wanted all the original people back. that was the whole point of getting the fucking infinity stones. hulk snapped his fingers and brought everybody back. yes, it was 5 years later but the point was that everybody they had lost, everybody they loved, came back as they were.
why the fuck couldnt the good omens ending have been more like that? we dont want copies. we want the originals. as was said in the job storyline (that apparently means fucking nothing now because it never happened) we dont want new children, we want the old ones.
maybe i am a bitter old man. maybe im being too harsh. but genuinely, just think for a second what you are praising was a good ending. just think what these characters meant to people. just think what they represent. hope. love. survival. growth. being themselves. shades of grey. not fitting in but choosing their own path to escape the systems that hurt them.
and then think of the fucking finale that butchered all of that.
these characters showed me that i should keep going, keep surviving. that i dont have to fit in to be worthy of love. that i dont have to be ashamed of who I am. that my trauma and my mistakes dont define me. aziraphale and crowley survived so many hardships, so much trauma but they kept fucking going and that trauma wasnt all they had. because they had happiness too. shared lunches. adventures together. laughter. subtle touches. love spanned across 6 millenia. they were not traumatised husks. they were not on either side fully. they were themselves. and even though yes, they were constantly afraid of heaven and hell, they still found ways to find joy in the mundane. they still drank wine together, they still ate lunch together, they still hung out with eachother all the fucking time despite their abuse.
they could still have trauma and still experience happiness. still grow from it. still survive and love and smile. and that kind of message speaks to someone like me on a personal level. its why I fell in love with them so much. especially crowley. crowley always kept going even when he wanted to run away. even when he wanted to give up. his whole character arc was that he is an optimist at heart and he always knew the universe would take care of him.
to see him the way he was in the finale, to see him choose murder-suicide and bring aziraphale down with him...that goes against everything we've been shown him to be. a sarcastic cynical bastard at times, yeah, but a fucking survivor. and not only that, a survivor who is so in love with his angel he was shown to be giving up literally in that exact episode because aziraphale had left him! and then youre telling me he has a chance to be with him, something he's always wanted and he chooses to sacrifice them both instead? sacrificing himself i can understand i suppose...in a way, but aziraphale? and aziraphale just fucking folded and let him?
do you have any idea how harmful that message actually is to people? especially neurodivergent, mentally ill, traumatised, queer people like myself? it just makes me feel like im fundamentally unworthy of a happy ending because im fucking traumatised. and my bpd makes me feel like a bad person all the time anyway. i have always felt unworthy. thats why i related to crowley. and crowley always gave me the strength to keep going, that i am not just my bpd, just like he isnt just a demon. hes a good person. but now...what, none of that even meant anything because he chose to end it all? fuck, this notion that eradicating everything, eradicating the characters that mean the world to me because they keep fucking surviving, and doing it in a self sacrificial way, this notion that its a good ending truly fucking baffles me. all that theyve gone through, all that growth, all that love...it suddenly doesnt mean a damn thing. they killed themselves. its so fucking harmful. genuinely.
people saying they loved humanity more than themselves, yeah okay. but the whole purpose of season 1 was they wanted to stop armageddon because they loved earth too much. they loved all their earthly delights. but the main thing was that they wanted to experience it. and they were useless in the end anyway because all the humans stopped armageddon! they didnt do a damn thing. adam, the antichrist, chose to ignore his purpose and tell off his dad and save the fucking world along with the them and anathema and newt and even fucking shadwell and tracy in some weird way. aziraphale and crowley basically did nothing. and that was what free will was all about! anathema chose to burn the rest of the prophecies, adam chose to save the world not end it. aziraphale and crowley chose to save eachother from certain destruction and get heaven and hell off their backs because they loved earth and humanity and wanted to experience it with them. they all chose free will and they all ignored who they were supposed to be.
so when crowley asks god about free will, why is that suddenly an issue? crowley already knows that angels and demons are basically useless to humanity anyway, they all think up horrible stuff themselves and get on with it and crowley just takes the credit for it. free will was never the problem. the problem was heaven and hell constantly trying to end the fucking world. crowley always wanted to know what the purpose of everything was. why make the world and then end it in 6000 years. he was curious. he asked questions. that was the point. then all of a sudden it becomes about giving the humans free will when they literally always fucking had it.
so yeah. no. not buying it. everytime I think about it i get angrier. there were so many different ways they could have ended it. think of the thousands of fanfics that were made post s2. and they chose the one ending that nobody fucking wanted. not only that, they somehow made it worse by choosing to completely destroy everything including aziraphale and crowley. then tried to soothe the burn with asa and anthony like we arent completely choking on the current fucking smoke.
its bullshit. it pisses me off. it entirely defeats the purpose of s1 and the book. it defeats the purpose of the job storyline. they butchered aziraphale and crowleys characters. they made crowley a pessimistic suicidal ball of depression and they made aziraphale the villain. no one said one nice thing to aziraphale that entire episode. there were plot holes everywhere. the jesus storyline went fucking nowhere. the metatron villain arc they were building went nowhere. I get they only had 90 minutes but cmon!
it was just a big depression shit show and I am eradicating it from my brain entirely. it is not the characters I fell in love with. it is not how I hoped the ending would go.
I just wanted them to retire to the south downs. an angel and a demon, living together in a peaceful cottage. crowley having his own garden. aziraphale having his own library. doing mundane domestic things together. loving eachother openly and fully and without fear.
people who say there was no other way...hello?? they literally wrote a new book of life. physically willed god into existence. they could have just said "bring everything back but heaven and hell dont interfere anymore".
if they were so willing to trust god and asked god herself for there to be a godless universe, then, yknow, I am fairly certain they could have fucking asked for this simple thing??
the ending is a dark tragedy to what was initially a fantasy comedy series.
and I. did not. care. for it.
I'm in that stage of grief too. Anything positive feels like a pushy sales pitch. And every excuse they make I can mentally refute it and then I get mad because how dare people be wrong on the internet!
'Fans only dislike the finale because they're ignoring such-and-such interpretation' I looked at the ending from a watsonian perspective, i looked at it from a doylist perspective and I still thought it was bad. Yes, I watched the credits animation and I still thought it was bad. Yes I think Asanthony are meant to be literally the same souls, and that still doesn't make it good because they shouldn't have killed themselves to get there. No, I don't think a better lead up/more time could have made this ending acceptable.
'It was so sad but it was in character.' No it wasn't. 'It was tragic but it was beautiful.' No it wasn't. And screw 'being beautiful' actually. like schools assigning classic literature and expecting people to appreciate books solely because they're classics and not considering what made the stories enjoyable in the first place. 'Fans need to set aside their silly shipping feelings and accept that this is objectively Good Art because it has shock value or smthing.' No, we're drawn to good stories because of the feelings they make us feel.
'They exist in every universe!' I want to believe this idea but like they could have shown us original Aziracrow walking through a library reading all their different AUs... why focus on this one least interesting version? (also they could have existed in every universe without giving up on living and they could have overtly discussed their relationship for two seconds and-)
Yeah the more I think about it the angrier I get. Good luck coping. Block as many s3 tags as you can.
Hearing everyone's stories about the fifth Sunday lesson today makes me SOOOO happy I am a primary teacher and today I got to watch VeggieTales and sing about Jesus
Aziraphale and Crowley had no way of knowing any of the individual humans they cared about would be reborn into the new universe. They didn't sacrifice themselves for Warlock or Jemimah or Nina or Maggie. They did it for Humanity™ as an Abstract Concept. So entirely sapped of hope that they felt the only way out was 'maybe the next generation has a chance.' I feel so uplifted by this comedy./sarcastic
Thinking about this again because I keep seeing people say it's a great ending for Aziracrow to become human because it's 'human incarnate' and they always loved humanity. But I never felt like they loved human because of their species, because of something in the genome of Homo Sapiens, you know? It was because of their creativity and passion and individuality and perseverance. The things that made them PEOPLE, not just human. And angels and demons were people too. ADAM KEPT HIS POWERS AT THE END OF SEASON ONE AND HE WAS STILL A PERSON. He was human in every way that mattered. You don't have to be writing realistic fiction to say something about real people.
what genuinely frustrates me is how the good omens fandom immediately dogpiled on the woman who was primarily doing directorial work, while the male writers who, as it turns out, are friends of neil gaiman and openly protective of him are barely being questioned at all. nobody seems interested in asking why they’ve stayed completely silent, avoided interviews, and refused to publicly comment on any of this. It’s incredibly telling how quickly blame gets redirected onto women, even when they weren’t the ones making the core writing decisions. meanwhile the men involved are allowed to disappear into silence without facing the same level of scrutiny or hostility. that double standard is honestly the most depressing part of the entire situation
wait guys can i say something. i can understand liking the good omens ending but it lowkey bothers tf out of me when people say this is the only ending where they could be happy… “oh it would never work for them in their original universe because of their trauma and heaven and hell still being around! they’d never escape their pasts and the system enough to be happy so they needed this reset for a version of them that’s free from it all!” because christ what kind of message is that 😭 in this life we can’t escape our histories and the systems in place that make life difficult, but the point is that we need to choose to fight for happiness through it all, no? overcome and choose love? fight for the ability to hold on to the love you have? i don’t see why it should have been impossible for aziraphale and crowley to truly be happy together as an angel and a demon, because why should factors of our lives out of our control have the final say in our ability to fight for a happy future for ourselves? besides, they were establishing their own side. they were never fully on the side of heaven or hell, but especially by the end of season 3 it seems that any influence heaven and hell held over them would have even less of a grip. aziraphale chose to go back to heaven for crowley (and humanity), he wasn’t choosing to side with heaven. crowley cut ties with hell, resigning and becoming a former demon. they didn’t have to be stuck on either side holding them back forever... again, it’s perfectly fine to enjoy the ending, but i guess i just don’t understand when people say it had to be this way for them to have a true shot at happiness together idk lol
REAL like did people think season 1's ending was unhappy because heaven and hell weren't entirely dismantled?? 'they would never be able to peacefully retire there would always be angels and demons bothering them' and that necessitates destroying the universe? We literally have hundreds of fanfics detailing other solutions, this isn't the One True Way just because it has the canon stamp on it.
Also I don't get how people can think reforming the system is impossible after seeing Gabriel, of all people, change his mind on Armageddon. Like, just kill Metatron and Satan probably and give all the others therapy... it'll be fine
The weary getting a rest doesn't matter if they don't remember theyre sleepy
go3 spoiler
aziraphale and crowley arent dead. I saved them. they live with me now. we eat crepes together and go on drives in the bentley and me and crowley tease aziraphale about his books and me and aziraphale treat crowleys plants with kindness even though he hates it and we go on picnics together and those two are always kissing and hugging all the damn time. its a nightmare honestly. 6000 years of pining, is it any wonder they cant get their hands off eachother now? anyway yep. theyre alive and well and they live with me. thanks for checking in. they say hi :)
sincerely, a delusional grieving queer
Aziraphale and Crowley had no way of knowing any of the individual humans they cared about would be reborn into the new universe. They didn't sacrifice themselves for Warlock or Jemimah or Nina or Maggie. They did it for Humanity™ as an Abstract Concept. So entirely sapped of hope that they felt the only way out was 'maybe the next generation has a chance.' I feel so uplifted by this comedy./sarcastic
⚠️ GOOD OMENS SEASON 3 SPOILERS ⚠️
I am genuinely, religiously offended by the ending of Good Omens. And not because I think it’s blasphemous or whatever
The way that free will/agency is treated, like it’s incompatible with the existence of God is crazy.
All the predestination stuff really grinded my gears. The whole show was built around the characters not following the script.
Also, like, what was up with Jesus being like “the last thing I remember is being nailed to a cross”? THE LITERAL MOST IMPORTANT PART, THE ULTIMATE CLIMAX OF THE BIBLE IS THAT HE COMES BACK AFTER HIS CRUCIFICATION!
Any loser can die on a cross, not everyone comes back from it.
I love Good Omens, but if you’re gonna make fanfiction of Christianity, you gotta at least get the basic canon facts right.
This was exactly my feeling and you put it into words so well. Not to mention the idea of the best possible world/only good option is a universe without an afterlife?? 'Death is what makes our lives meaningful' no it's not! Not everyone thinks that.
Yeah they wanted to pander to religious people by going 'Jesus is a nice guy' but not committing to anything further and honestly I might rather have had them be fully sacrilegious. i liked in season 1 when Jesus' part was so small that things could be left ambiguous. (Not that this Jesus had a huge impact either because you know, the entire universe was destroyed immediately after he discovered his purpose)
To any new Good Omens fans:
5-second version: Neil Gaiman is gross, pirate his work, don't give him money, think twice before being in a room with him if you can avoid it, kgreatthxbye.
Full version: We want to let you know, if you hadn't heard, that series creator Neil Gaiman has been accused of sexual harassment, ab*se, and as*ault, up to and including r*pe, by eight women.
The allegations against him are some of the most horrific we've ever read. They're so disturbing, in fact, that we normally censor his name in our posts because it makes us physically sick to even read it. (Just spelling it out in full here for clarity).
He (*allegedly*) usually selected his victims from among his fans. We want everyone to be armed with this information so you can make an informed decision about whether he is someone you would feel safe interacting with (he has been keeping a low profile since the initial allegations came out, but powerful men accused of this kind of behavior have a pattern of trying to reboot their careers after a couple years have passed) and supporting the work of.
According to Amazon, he is no longer involved with the creation of the Good Omens finale, but unfortunately he will continue to make money from royalties every time someone streams it or Seasons 1 and 2.
It's up to you what to do with this information. Personally, he isn't someone any of us would feel safe being in a room with. We'd also STRONGLY encourage everybody to pirate the finale rather than supporting him (or Amazon, come to think of it).
Best wishes,
The mods
Ykw my most controversial gomens opinion that should be controversial is that i kinda hope they address that the kiss wasn't entirely consensual and that that wasn't an ok thing for crowley to do
To any new Good Omens fans:
5-second version: Neil Gaiman is gross, pirate his work, don't give him money, think twice before being in a room with him if you can avoid it, kgreatthxbye.
Full version: We want to let you know, if you hadn't heard, that series creator Neil Gaiman has been accused of sexual harassment, ab*se, and as*ault, up to and including r*pe, by eight women.
The allegations against him are some of the most horrific we've ever read. They're so disturbing, in fact, that we normally censor his name in our posts because it makes us physically sick to even read it. (Just spelling it out in full here for clarity).
He (*allegedly*) usually selected his victims from among his fans. We want everyone to be armed with this information so you can make an informed decision about whether he is someone you would feel safe interacting with (he has been keeping a low profile since the initial allegations came out, but powerful men accused of this kind of behavior have a pattern of trying to reboot their careers after a couple years have passed) and supporting the work of.
According to Amazon, he is no longer involved with the creation of the Good Omens finale, but unfortunately he will continue to make money from royalties every time someone streams it or Seasons 1 and 2.
It's up to you what to do with this information. Personally, he isn't someone any of us would feel safe being in a room with. We'd also STRONGLY encourage everybody to pirate the finale rather than supporting him (or Amazon, come to think of it).
Best wishes,
The mods
This is the r*pe crisis charity N*il G*iman promised one of his victims he would make a "hefty donation" to and then didn't.
just saw a post talking about the misogynistic phenomenon of men frequently offloading household tasks to women & expecting us to do them... and describing it as "learned helplessness"
we are putting that term on the shelf
Learned helplessness is the behavior exhibited by a subject after enduring repeated aversive stimuli beyond their control. In humans, learned helplessness is related to the concept of self-efficacy, the individual's belief in their innate ability to achieve goals.
literal first paragraph of the wikipedia article for learned helplessness. this is a depression symptom. it is frequently caused by lifelong abuse from controlling authority figures. it is the exact OPPOSITE of an abuse tactic and would most likely be displayed by the WOMEN in that kind of scenario!!
the actual relevant term for what the man is doing is probably "weaponized incompetence" which is an abuse tactic. please for the love of fuck do not conflate the two
Hey, fam, just FYI that even though Gaiman isn't the showrunner for GO3 anymore, he still owns the IP and therefore still gets a bunch of credits and will still be paid for his work on the show.
More info at this link, with receipts: https://www.reddit.com/r/neilgaiman/comments/1i6s6yk/neils_involvement_with_amazon/
Gaiman will continue to get residuals from all three seasons of GO and from any other show that has already been produced as long as they are streaming or broadcast anywhere. Presumably he will also continue to get royalties from sales of his books, along with advances for anything that anyone publishes in the future, assuming anyone still wants to publish his stuff at all.
Streaming any show Gaiman worked for, including GO3, will give more money to Gaiman. Buying Gaiman's books will give more money to Gaiman.
It's not possible to divest Gaiman of his own intellectual property, no matter how much we might want to do so. If you want to avoid supporting him financially, you need to not stream the shows or buy any more of his writing.
Please note that I'm not telling people that they shouldn't stream the shows or buy the books. It's up to each of us as individuals to decide whether or how we want to interact with Gaiman's work going forward.
To any new Good Omens fans:
5-second version: Neil Gaiman is gross, pirate his work, don't give him money, think twice before being in a room with him if you can avoid it, kgreatthxbye.
Full version: We want to let you know, if you hadn't heard, that series creator Neil Gaiman has been accused of sexual harassment, ab*se, and as*ault, up to and including r*pe, by eight women.
The allegations against him are some of the most horrific we've ever read. They're so disturbing, in fact, that we normally censor his name in our posts because it makes us physically sick to even read it. (Just spelling it out in full here for clarity).
He (*allegedly*) usually selected his victims from among his fans. We want everyone to be armed with this information so you can make an informed decision about whether he is someone you would feel safe interacting with (he has been keeping a low profile since the initial allegations came out, but powerful men accused of this kind of behavior have a pattern of trying to reboot their careers after a couple years have passed) and supporting the work of.
According to Amazon, he is no longer involved with the creation of the Good Omens finale, but unfortunately he will continue to make money from royalties every time someone streams it or Seasons 1 and 2.
It's up to you what to do with this information. Personally, he isn't someone any of us would feel safe being in a room with. We'd also STRONGLY encourage everybody to pirate the finale rather than supporting him (or Amazon, come to think of it).
Best wishes,
The mods
