jonahmarshall

adult (>21) 16+ account (no age = remove) icon: frenchtoastenthusiast

[jesusluvsjunkiess]

hi i'm jonah! i'm a did system and my pronouns are he/it. i am an adult!

interact with caution and please do not use tone indicators on me.

my typology: sx/sp 648 6w5 flve

this is my main blog where i reblog stuff and post about my life. please be at least 16 years old or older before following.

tagging system is in the tags of this post!

my dni: i block freely but please don't follow me if you are pro-endo. i'm anti-endo, it's awkward to interact when our views drastically contradict each other.

i like a few things but my main interests are: the mandela catalogue, typology, psychology, cry of fear, pyromaniac, and i do play vrchat.

i don't consider myself apart of any specific community, but i'd prefer to be distanced from the system community due to previous experiences.

[ravensloane]

guys i just heard a minecraft cave noise in real life

[quinquangularist]

change your settings to peaceful it'll be ok

[ravensloane]

k hold on

[ravensloane]

where are my parents

[anti-willo-kinger]

The creator of the app plural star, TheHanyou, has used AI in the development of the app, and harassed me over a negative review, and accused me of discrimination for being against AI

proof:

Not only is AI incredibly harmful, but the harassment over a review is incredibly immature.

The app itself (which I have used, despite them claiming the opposite) absolutely sucks. It's full of glitches and problems, it's unresponsive, and even if it wasn't, it would still be made with AI and automatically disgusting

The first screenshot comes from the "about this app" section on Google play store. It is hidden unless you expand it. You can check for yourself (unless they edit the description).

also a note: i have multiple accounts. the account I used for the review (made from phone) isn't the same one on my tablet, which is where I had the app to try it out. Perhaps they saw that the account I used for the review wasn't one that used the app? I'm not sure if that's a thing.

I don't take much offense from being called an ugly person, out of all things, but I ask you to report the review if you want, and the app.

@anti-willo-miku @anti-willo-deku @anti-willo-solivan tags for reach!

Ai is killing our planet, and I cannot justify it.

ANOTHER NOTE!!!

the app was previously known as pluralspace, but that is NOT the same app as the current pluralspace, which I adore and use myself. I have never spoken to the developer of that app and I thank them from their job

[burgerdotcom]

reblogs were off

[lets-talk-about-cdds]

Screenshotted to avoid sending harassment to the OP.

They did not provide a source for their claims, so I figured that I would do so for them and go over what the information actually means!

DEBUNKING - “You can be Plural without Trauma and there is proof”

I see the claim that there is proof that you can be a system without trauma thrown around quite a lot and the most common place I see it is pointing at the ICD-11.

The International Classification of Disease (ICD) is the global standard for recording health— ICD-11 being the latest copy of the book at the time of this post. If there is proof of systems without trauma in this book it would be quite a “checkmate anti-endos” for pro-endo truthers. Unfortunately, the evidence does not hold up to the claim.

“WAIT, but Risa, I thought you said that this DIDN’T prove that Endos could exist!!” Thank you my metaphorical friend who is a bit confused, if you simply read the first sentence “The presence of 2 or more distinct personalities does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder.” Then yes, that does seem like concrete proof that Endos exist.

But let’s actually take a second and break down what this actually means in a less confusing way.

“The presence of 2 or more distinct personalities does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder” -> “Just because someone comes in with 2 or more personalities, that doesn’t mean they should be diagnosed with DID.”

“In certain circumstances (e.g., as experienced by ‘mediums’ or other culturally accepted spiritual practitioners) the presence of multiple personalities is not experienced as aversive and not associated with impaired function.” -> “Mediums and those who let a spirit of some kind inhabit them are an example of 2 or more personalities in one body that should NOT be considered disordered.”

“A diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder should not be assigned in these cases.” -> “Don’t be racist and tell people that are spirit practitioners that they HAVE A MENTAL DISORDER.”

A lot of the proof for “Endogenic systems” talk about are in references to spiritual beliefs that are performed by a number of cultures. I don’t think I need to explain why claiming your alters are created from these often closed cultures is not the checkmate Endos think it is. (If I do, please tell me because I will and CAN explain.)

So ICD-11 is a bust, but here are surely other medical papers out there talking about Endos being real, right?

[systeminquiry]

Debunking: Plurality in Transgender Mental Health (2018)

Cross-posting this solid debunking of an oft-cited section about plurality. Most of the images speak for themselves, but I'll add in occasionally to explain further.

The first section defines being plural as "Having two or more people existing in one body or space" (Yarbrough, 2018). The highlighted sections on plurality have no source - these are unsubstantiated claims that contradict the scientific general consensus and research on how systems form, leaving the reader unable to determine whether the information came from a legitimate/reputable source or not. As it is now, the fact that the sections about plurality have no source seems to imply that the author couldn't find a legitimate source with their definition of plurality, instead fabricating explanations.

The majority of this page describes someone who has been repeatedly traumatized as an example for explaining plurality. In context, this actually makes the argument against their claim stronger - if this is the only case study provided, it implies the only sources the author found to support their claim here are trauma-related - inadvertently strengthening the claim that systems can't form without trauma.

The information about open and closed systems, fronting and blending, and headspaces does have a source, but upon investigation, the original source doesn't have a source; the only information we have about the author is the note that the page was "Written by E of NS," who is not listed anywhere on the site (E of N.S). Where is all this information coming from? Who is E of NS? It is possible that some of what's written is accurate, but the fact that so much of the original source makes claims without citing any sources, and that we know nothing about the author but their initials, this source cannot be called a credible one.

This entire section makes claims about plurality that directly contradicts the body of existing research (see Dorahy et al., 2014 and Dell & O'Neil, 2009, but there are more) with no sources to support what they're saying. I cannot call this reliable or legitimate information if large sections are fictitious.

As shown above, all of these references either pertain to dissociative disorders or are not legitimate sources as is evident in previous sections. Of note to me is that the author's specialties don't include DID, multiplicity, or trauma.

I hope that this breakdown helps explain why the section on plurality in Transgender Mental Health has a lot of illegitimacy and should thus not be cited as a reliable or accurate source.

Sources below the cut:

American Psychiatric Association, DSM-5 Task Force. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders: DSM-5™ (5th ed.). American Psychiatric Publishing, Inc.. https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425596

Dell, P. & O'Neil, J. (2009). Dissociation and the Dissociative Disorders: DSM-V and Beyond. Routledge.

Dorahy M. J., Brand, B.L., Şar V., et al. (2014). Dissociative identity disorder: An empirical overview. Australian & New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 48(5), 02-417. https://doi.org/10.1177/0004867414527523

E of N.S. (n.d.). What Is Plurality?. Plurality Resource. https://pluralityresource.org/plurality-information/

Herman, J. L. (1992). Trauma and recovery. Basic Books/Hachette Book Group.

Johnson, J. G., Cohen, P., Kasen, S., & Brook, J. S. (2006). Dissociative disorders among adults in the community, impaired functioning, and axis I and II comorbidity. Journal of psychiatric research, 40(2), 131–140. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jpsychires.2005.03.003

Yarbrough, E. (2018). Transgender Mental Health. American Psychiatric Association Publishing.

[raulimages]

[anti-willo-miku]

(Some) Logical fallacies commonly used by endogenic systems and their supporters

I wanted to compile a small amount of common fallacious arguments used by the pro-endo ideology.

You should also use these to help strengthen your own arguments by avoiding these fallacies. Remember that a statement can be true and still be argued with faulty logic, and denying so is a fallacy of its own. (It’s called the fallacy fallacy, where: If P, then Q. P is a fallacious argument. Therefore, Q is false.)

I don’t know if I should start adding “this post was made by”, but you should know most of my long posts are made by me (Neuvillette) or Cosine. This time it’s me with Cosine in co-front. My special interest is law and debate, so I had a lot of fun with this :)

requested tags: @dissociacho

Burden of Proof / Appeal To Ignorance:

The burden of proof is the obligation of the party providing the claim to provide ample proof of it. If a person says that X exists, they must provide evidence for X. Shifting the burden of proof occurs when the person making the claim demands that others prove them wrong as opposed to justifying their own claim.

The burden of proof is frequently shifted using an appeal to ignorance. In the appeal to ignorance, one makes the claim that a statement is true simply because it has not been proven false.

How pro-endos use it: You will frequently see pro-endos follow a similar logical train. They will state that endogenic systems exist and then require you to provide proof of the contrary. This is similar to religious debates where a theist will ask an atheist to “prove god doesn’t exist!”.

How you can avoid using it: If you are making a claim, provide reasoning. Since the endogenic model is nowhere close to an actual understanding of science, your best bet is studies that disprove the sociocognitive model of DID (which operates remarkably similar to the endogenic logic). Also, remind them that the primary medical term for the presence of alters is DID, and studies into alter formation and presence will use that term. (So the claim: “this isn’t about endos!! its about did!!” is stupid. If that were true, DID studies and framework wouldn’t be useful for OSDD)

Anecdotal:

Anecdotal evidence occurs when personal experiences and isolated incidents are used to draw broad strokes as opposed to empirical evidence.

How pro-endos use it: There two main ways pro-endogenic systems use this.

They might claim that their experience as an endogenic system, or the experiences of endogenic systems that they know, is evidence for endogenic systems existing. This isn’t logical evidence. People can misinterpret what they think and feel about themselves, and they can lie to others as well.

If the discussion is about the community, they may bring up negative experiences from anti-endos. While these experiences are valid and deserved to be brought into context for how we treat pro-endos as a community, it does not mean the anti-endo community as a whole has that behavior. That is another logical fallacy, part to whole, where somebody assumes what is true of a part is true of the whole. (EX: One anti-endo was mean, so all anti-endos are mean.)

Please note that the above doesn’t apply to anti-endos discussions of the history of pro-endos. We’re talking about the history and beliefs embedded into the endogenic community (beliefs that we have objective proof of existing), as opposed to negative experiences with individual pro-endos. (While those do have their merit, “I had a bad experience with a pro-endo so therefore all pro-endos are bad,” is not a logical argument. “I’ve noticed (X) pattern across experiences with pro-endos and it matches the negative history of their movement,” is.)

False Equivalence:

Informally known as ‘comparing apples and oranges’, the false equivalence where an equivalence is drawn between two things due to a small similarity. This is a form of oversimplification.

The structure goes as such:

If A is the set containing c and d, and B is the set containing d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal.

How pro-endos use it: Pro-endos make the comparison between anti-endos and transmedicalists. Ironically, while searching for a post to show this type of reasoning, I found a comic made by a pro-endo doing.. the exact thing.

This is the exact same fallacy. The false equivalence here comes from equating multiplicity with gender identity, two things that are simply not comparable. Gender is an internal identity, while multiplicity is the result of dissociative barriers formed through trauma. They are not comparable.

Tu Quoque

Latin for “You too”. This is when somebody dismisses an argument by accusing the critic of the same or similar behavior, rather than addressing the argument itself. An arguments truth is not dependent on the speaker itself, yet this is a useful form of red-herring that redirects criticism instead of making the person engage with it.

How pro-endos use it: Primarly when anti-endos discussing their communities history or pointing out flaws in the pro-endo community. If they ever start an argument along the lines of, “Well, sysmeds do [insert thing],” then that’s what I’m speaking about.

[anti-willo-miku]

endo terms feel like the kidz bop version of songs. does this make sense. like plural instead of complex dissociative disorder. proxy system instead of partial dissociative identity disorder. headmate instead of alter.

[jesusluvsjunkiess]

I feel like the watering down of these terms is intentional to make it easier to spread misinformation about CDDs and alters.

[jesusluvsjunkiess]

how i feel deleting discord when any minor inconvenience happens giggles and kicks legs and bats my eyelashes

[anti-willo-kinger]

today I saw someone talking about hearing voices in their head, and people suggested they "look into plurality"

Anyway if voices suddenly appear in your head, it could be caused by a schizoaffective disorder, by a mold infestation, by medication, by a BRAIN TUMOR, and without any other information, it may be this thing called "thinking"

hearing voices in your head is a vaguer symptom than coughing

[anti-willo-otis-driftwood]

BTW, DID isn't only about alters

If you look into it, the right definition would be "I'm took overwhelmed so I need someone to replace me" disorder

Also it can be:

A "This thing stresses me the hell out so I no longer will remember it even if I need to" disorder.

A "I don't know who I am most of the time" disorder

A "My trauma is a rotting wound that never heals" disorder

A "I never learned healthy ways to cope so I wake up with scars I don't remember having" disorder.

A "forget everything" disorder

A "Hightened risk of suicide/alcoholism/drug abuse" disorder

A "other parts of my self hate my guts and sabotage me (and themselves too in process)" disorder

A "I'm not sure whether those memories are real or a dream" disorder

A "I thought I was saying the truth but people say I'm lying" disorder

A "did I actually do it or just thought about it?" disorder

A "Being near some people or reading something even briefly mentioning/implying my trauma makes me spiral" disorder

A "I'm so depressed I can't get out of bed and haven't showered in weeks" disorder

And strangely enough, you can't have all that without repeated childhood trauma.

[jesusluvsjunkiess]

a lot of so called "safe spaces" for pw/osddid are not actually safe and i'll die on that hill. this message was written in my own blood too.

[traumasurvivors]

I think anger gets a bad reputation in trauma spaces a lot of the time.

People will say things like, "Holding onto anger isn't healthy," and I understand what they're trying to say. If years go by and anger is the only place you're able to live, it can absolutely keep you stuck.

But I also think there's a difference between staying angry forever and allowing yourself to be angry while you're healing.

For a lot of survivors, anger is actually an important part of recovery. It can be the moment you stop blaming yourself. The moment you stop minimizing what happened. The moment you realize that you deserved better.

Many of us spent years making excuses for the people who hurt us. We focused on their trauma, their intentions, their struggles, and their pain. We understood them so well that we forgot to make room for our own feelings.

Sometimes anger is what creates that space.

That doesn't mean anger should be taken out on other people. It doesn't mean every angry reaction is healthy. But the feeling itself isn't automatically a problem.

Sometimes anger is simply grief with boundaries.

Sometimes it's self-respect showing up for the first time.

And sometimes it's a necessary step on the way to healing.

[jesusluvsjunkiess]

Oomf PTSD presents in multiple different ways u are not faking u have that shit we have watched you drag ur balls through hells glass bro u ain't faking shit 🙏

I feel like that sometimes too but I'm literally diagnosed and took psychology just to recognize these things, another part of PTSD is literally thinking ur faking it cuz "it couldn't be THAT bad" yes it was bro 😭😭🙏🙏🙏 its okay I prommy

thank you bro this really helps me because i struggle so bad with thinking i'm faking and it sucks. it feels embarassing to even talk to others about what i experience when it comes to ptsd

[jesusluvsjunkiess]

I'm so fucking tired boss.

[jesusluvsjunkiess]

every time i talk about my experiences with ptsd and the symptoms i experience i feel like i'm faking them all and i should shut the fuck up