Senza titolo

[greensaplinggrace]

one of the wildest things about the dirty bomb north discourse is that she convinced someone else not to do it after they set it up without her input so that she could put the decision in markus's hands. and yet still this is somehow an indictment against her.

[jockons]

"North, she's happy if the dirty bomb goes off" There have been various comments over the years like "North is selfish" "she's a narcissist" "North only thinks about herself and her revenge, she doesn't care about her people" "North is manipulative" "North doesn't care about Markus."

"Others save Markus while North stands still like a statue, never saving him." In addition to the complacency over her deaths, a YouTube video about her deaths even calling it "fanservice"

which you'd expect from bastards like Micah Bell, Sam Trapani, Adam Smasher etc North receives almost that kind of hate, maybe even worse exaggerated (where those characters are better written, however) when she should be a morally gray character, with flaws but also with positive qualities.

People create redemption arcs for Gavin, yet they let North be as she is, preferring to see her as an evil bitch with no positive qualities.

Yes, Gavin is a bit of a character, a blank slate where people can fill those gaps, deepen that character, and yet there are people who say North has no personality other than being violent/bitchy, but it seems like it's better seen that way...to hate her now, I know it's a hot button, maybe even irrational, but it seems like people don't care about her character, how to improve it or anything else, they just hate her, but otherwise...she can just end up in the trash.

Years ago, there was a discussion where it was said that her character would be better appreciated if she had less screen time, meaning less time to get to know her, to deepen her, which at most would have made her tolerable. It could be translated as: "I don't care about this character, so I'd rather she had less screen time" than improve her, basically. Jesus, I can't get it out of my head that if the scene where Josh blames Markus after Markus's death had been North instead, how much more shitstorm would have ensued over her, and it would have been one of the most-listed scenes in the fandom.

[greensaplinggrace]

All of this is rooted in sexism. The fact that people would rather give Gavin Reed—the most one dimensional caricature of a bigot in the show—more depth than the woman already created with depth is mind boggling. Every excuse about violence or blandness or lack of personality is directly contradicted by the fact that these people are willing to give more leeway to the character with three scenes of one note hatred over North.

Not only that, but pretty much all readings of her character listed above are factually incorrect. Yet they have no reason to actually study her character in any meaningful capacity because they're physically incapable of imagining a rich inner life for a woman as opposed to a man.

"Others save Markus while North stands still like a statue, never saving him."

As someone who has played every single possible ending and branch off-scene in the entire game multiple times over, the above statement is a bald faced fucking lie. Which is easily proven if you allow Markus to fail at pretty much anything. It's ridiculous that people not only over-exaggerate the things she has done to astronomical degrees, but that they also make shit up about her that doesn't even exist. These people's entire understanding of North's character relies on their unquestioned misogyny and inability to examine their own biases.

[jockons]

Even though I agree that there are interpretations of things that are exaggerated or not there to make her worse than she is, it may be superficial but I don't think that misogyny is the problem or at least not so much since I've seen several girls hate her, not just boys, and they should be the first to understand North's character and how she feels, since these are issues that should concern them even today unfortunately, yet several women continue to hate her, of course I would also blame the fandom especially in the early years where there was a shitty fear about North's character, belittling her to make Simon better than her in comparison

but I would blame David Cage and the developers for how they treated her character badly, how she is framed in the narrative etc. Regardless of gender, a male North would have the same problems and I don't think he would have been loved, at least not that much, there would still be hate

[greensaplinggrace]

one of the wildest things about the dirty bomb north discourse is that she convinced someone else not to do it after they set it up without her input so that she could put the decision in markus's hands. and yet still this is somehow an indictment against her.

[jockons]

"North, she's happy if the dirty bomb goes off" There have been various comments over the years like "North is selfish" "she's a narcissist" "North only thinks about herself and her revenge, she doesn't care about her people" "North is manipulative" "North doesn't care about Markus."

"Others save Markus while North stands still like a statue, never saving him." In addition to the complacency over her deaths, a YouTube video about her deaths even calling it "fanservice"

which you'd expect from bastards like Micah Bell, Sam Trapani, Adam Smasher etc North receives almost that kind of hate, maybe even worse exaggerated (where those characters are better written, however) when she should be a morally gray character, with flaws but also with positive qualities.

People create redemption arcs for Gavin, yet they let North be as she is, preferring to see her as an evil bitch with no positive qualities.

Yes, Gavin is a bit of a character, a blank slate where people can fill those gaps, deepen that character, and yet there are people who say North has no personality other than being violent/bitchy, but it seems like it's better seen that way...to hate her now, I know it's a hot button, maybe even irrational, but it seems like people don't care about her character, how to improve it or anything else, they just hate her, but otherwise...she can just end up in the trash.

Years ago, there was a discussion where it was said that her character would be better appreciated if she had less screen time, meaning less time to get to know her, to deepen her, which at most would have made her tolerable. It could be translated as: "I don't care about this character, so I'd rather she had less screen time" than improve her, basically. Jesus, I can't get it out of my head that if the scene where Josh blames Markus after Markus's death had been North instead, how much more shitstorm would have ensued over her, and it would have been one of the most-listed scenes in the fandom.

[jockons]

from distant to fond

Personally I love this moment, at the beginning it shows a distant, cold North, a North who is grumpy with everyone and everything, but towards the end of the game, I love how she struggles to admit a certain type of affection she feels towards Markus, the fact that there is a hesitation as if North was not used to admitting affection towards someone, making herself vulnerable in a certain sense in a personal confrontation, North was nobody, she was an android of the Eden Club who spent hell inside her and had to keep it to herself for all that time, the anger, the bitterness, the shame, the sense of dirtiness she felt inside herself, the fact that she was created with that function and she could do nothing to change it, because she was born with it, there was nothing positive in North's life, nothing that could imply it, but then Markus arrives, with the strong sense of change, in wanting to change things, in wanting a better future for androids, and North agrees to act almost from the beginning, which gives hope and courage to the androids to fight, to react, that they once had lost, and to see someone who sincerely cares about her, it surprises North but I think that deep down she appreciates it, someone who had it worse than him, who saw one of the worst and most perverse sides of humanity while he in the meantime lived with a man who treated him quite well considering the context in which they live, it was a paradise in comparison, who feels sadness, compassion, who cares about her well-being, making her feel something that she would never have found at the Eden Club which was comparable to hell and when he does this for her, she is confused, as if she was not used to this

and that makes her smile, a sincere smile this time

Markus was ultimately her only positive influence along with the cause and she respects and grows fond of Markus in the end despite the two of them being very different, supporting him in his moments of doubt and weakness, detaching him from his figure of impeccable and perfect leader, showing gratitude and reciprocating what Markus has given her, she will be grateful to someone who gave her a goal, a true purpose, a reason to live to fight and hope for something different

I don't ship Norkus and most of the games I play keep her at maximum as "Friend/Companion" but I love these moments of North, even if they are superficial things for most players, but the fact that North supports and encourages Markus in his moments of weakness showing gratitude for what he has done, made me tender, especially in the pacifist paths

sure could she be a better realized character than the one we got? absolutely and I think even the most ardent fans of North can confirm it, but I love North and I will never stop loving her as a character despite being one of the most hated characters in the game

[littlehaize]

[jockons]

when I enjoy two characters that are among my favorites in a video game I don't care who is more suitable as a Romantic Partner North to tell the truth is a bit of a bitch, too violent, has extreme methods and generalizes an entire species as all the same, but she is still a character who has some positive things, she is brave, she is determined, she has a strong will to act to try to change things for the better regardless of the risks, she is passionate about things and even if the narrative doesn't frame it exactly like that, in the end what interests her most is freedom for her people, not necessarily for her, but for her people, because their goal is bigger, even bigger than herself Simon on the other hand is a character who unfortunately lacks backbone, but he is still supportive, he is balanced and he is not a coward, just a cautious and reserved type, both understand how much is at stake honestly, neither of them shows resentment towards the other when the other sends them to die, because they understand that there may be certain needs and they never forget their true common goal that they have, and often share similar opinions despite Simon's neutrality, both can become fond of Markus, both can defend him from certain comments and both can give their lives for him, both are valid and have qualities that the other lacks (Simon the ability to act, North the balance, and that's okay, North and Simon are two characters that deserved a more enriched, deeper independent narrative arc from David Cage, no love stories, just a deeper exploration of the characters

[jockons]

Protect me angry android

[jockons]

I think that Stratford Tower chapter condemns North in the evaluation of her character for most players, especially when North tells you to shoot the guards and if you choose an alternative option North's relational indicator goes down, this creates a negative figure that makes players uncomfortable and sees someone who seems to distance herself from the goals of the protagonist and the player, replaying it several times however I understood that North was not completely wrong, and did not always and only act for revenge (if she ever acted for those reasons) and that she cared about the cause and the freedom of her people (this is understood when she subtly tells Markus that he should have let her die because their goal is more important) and she can also avoid killing if it is not necessary, sometimes you have to make immoral choices to survive, be selfish, or take the consequences for not being able to do the difficult thing morally speaking especially in a context like the one they face in Detroit where the androids are in danger of dying every second with the humans who initially do not care about what the deviants think, but the game simply avoids those consequences so players will only see North as "irrational and impulsive" and not as "a ruthless character because of her past and the world she faces, but who only wants to kill in cases necessary from her point of view, but if there is another way to complete the mission without complications it's fine for her, but in the end she knows how to be grateful and respects the protagonist for what he has done for them despite their different differences" she presents herself as a character who tries to lead you to the "bad ending" and if she becomes the Leader she shows the player how she fails miserably in her path ruining everything, honestly I would blame Cage more than the fandom, North was destined to not be liked from the beginning, the love story is just one of the many reasons and it's a shame because she is a character with her strengths and weaknesses with potential, but that Cage and the Fandom spat on (At least not the Tumblr fandom currently, fortunately)

[pls-explodingstars-pls]

They threw him out when they didn’t want him anymore… He was living on the streets before we brought him here…

[jockons]

you’re a naruto fan as well? :)

Yeah I was, it was my favorite anime, also because I didn't watch many anime, but I remember this anime at the time I was very excited, with the fights, with the dialogues, with the various deaths, I really liked the first series, I feel that it had given enough space to almost all the secondary characters, like Neji, he was cool and I liked him a lot after the fight with Naruto and the Sasuke rescue arc (My favorite arc) but in Shippuden he didn't do much, I remember that I talked all day on a Naruto group, about various fights, who was the favorite character and things like that, and I even became an admin in that group I created many versus and passionately argued the versus of the first series between kids lol when I created them and posted them, sometimes I put forgettable characters lmao, I even entered the Naruto fanbase fandom, I had quite a lot of fun, I loved Naruto even if it's now time gone by, I don't follow it anymore, I'm just looking for something for the old days but I haven't argued from that point on since about 2021

[ynnu-64]

our hearts are compatible

[akatsukitrash]

Tayuya seems to be the only one, aside from Sasuke and Kabuto, who's fully aware of how abusive Orochimaru is and seems more resigned to her position than brainwashed, like Kimimaru and the rest. She could've been really interesting to watch, especially if she got to be close to Sasuke. She's also the one who talks to him the most about leaving Konoha, and is the least insulting about it, despite being introduced as a vulgar and mean girl. Such a waste of an interesting character

[jockons]

surely for the type that Orochimaru is he manipulated her as he is used to doing with young people, but it was her choice to follow him, even if yes, she recognizes that it is not exactly "roses and flowers" with him, I have always liked her honestly, she and Kidomaru for me have always been the most interesting of the four, they were the ones who despite being sadistic praised and gave the right credits even if at the same time they were arrogant, but I liked them both for their personality, design, techniques and more, I would have liked if they had deepened the Sound 4, but I think that Kishi did not care almost at all about them, for the rest I think that Tayuya the only thing that I was sorry about was her end, when she loses badly against Temari, without fighting in practice, Temari comes, makes two hits and Tayuya loses, in short, not a perfect conclusion unlike Kidomaru How I feel after talking about the Sound 4 as if they were not forgettable characters:

[bighistorywords]

Let's talk about North (Detroit Become Human)

This will certainly be a text with an unpopular opinion and although I like the game, I know all its problems in terms of script. But I wanted to give my honest opinion about a character. North

(I’m sorry, my English is bad, but I want to do this text so much, that I will try. >.<)

North is one of Detroit’s most “hated” characters and at first I understood why. In the beginning, the end I reached was what everyone lives for and Markus wins the “fight”. When I made other endings and came across North as a leader after Markus’s death, I started to understand some motivations that made me change my mind about the character.

Detroit is a game with few female characters (almost none) and that’s where my annoyance comes when it comes to North. She didn’t have a chance to shine alone without Markus at any point during the game and we didn’t have a chance to see and be able to better understand what she thinks about humans, because the game treats her trauma and anger as something exaggerated.

Everything about it is “exaggerated”, “violent” and “clueless”. The game does not allow you to know your other side, your feelings and the deeper reason why she thinks that violence is the only solution.

Markus had no motivation to revolt against humans. He was one of the only ones in the game with freedom and a good relationship with a human. Many androids have not “suffered” at the hands of humans. He didn’t need to have that kind of motivation that the game makes him have. Unlike North, who as a leader, makes perfect sense, since she was the most “controlled” by humans, second only to Connor.

And that’s where my unpopular opinion comes from: North should have been the controllable character in place of Markus.

I believe that Connor is the most beloved character in the plot for a number of reasons, but mainly for the dilemma and his personal construction as a character, something that we do not see in Kara or Markus. Kara had everything to have a good story, but the lack of charisma of the secondary characters in her plot and her lack of chemistry with them was a crucial factor in not captivating me as much as I wanted. Markus has no personal charisma and his story does not captivate, mainly that he is the only character that does not make sense to “rebel” against humans.

And I’m saying this just to show how interesting it would be to see North as the main controllable character in the game, because she has dilemmas and proposals to resolve and reflect on, just like Connor, and it would be very interesting.

North as the main character and his construction of feelings of “anger” to “forgiveness” in relation to humans would be an incredible proposal to address. Even more than in this reality in Detroit, there would certainly be other (human) women who are going through the same situation as North was, precisely because many lost their jobs to the machines and would certainly find other “ways” to survive.

This relationship that North creates with human women would be crucial for his construction as a character and his understanding of his feelings towards himself and other humans.

While in a moment we would see Connor and his dilemma between being a machine and being divergent and the player himself can choose what he will become or not. On the other hand, we would have North, with the possibility that she can bond with humans and feel that the bloody revolution may not be the best way, or simply continue to let anger over humans dominate you as if conversation is not possible.

And as the main character, we would see his motivations, his feelings emerging and his relationships with other human characters. All of this with the player controlling the character, who could follow a path without forgiveness, or come to understand and conclude that the “fight” is not necessary.

I’ve already written too much (lol), but I had to vent a little about it. Markus’ story, his lack of development, his motivations and meaningless phrases bother me a lot in the game. And another point that bothers me is how the only woman ahead of Detroit’s revolution / pacifism can’t win without the main man (even though everyone tries to convince me that she would never win the war with her “violent” thoughts, as if Markus didn’t could also win with the revolution scenario :/)

Anyway, I just wanted to say how upset I am about the waste with North and his story. And as there is no possibility to see its evolution and a supposed relationship with humans (mainly after the success of pacifism / revolution).

She is a great character and deserved much more.

[pacifistmarkus]

[jockons]

I always got the impression in this scene that Josh felt sorry for North for yelling at her that it was Markus' fault for provoking the humans, somewhat regretting having done so when he notices that North instead of arguing with him further "lets him win" unlike at the beginning of Capitol Park. Capitol Park

Crossroads:

She looks away from him, starts arguing with him, but when Josh continues she pulls back, not because he was right, but because what's the point of continuing to argue? continuing to argue would not have brought Markus back to life unfortunately and would have only worsened the situation and the tension that were already in the air

Josh when he sees her not continuing to argue as she usually would, especially with him, recognizing that maybe North cared about Markus and yelling at her, perhaps realizes that he has exaggerated, that he too must calm down, he sighs, reminding North that Markus is now dead and it's up to them to decide what to do, with a sad tone and melancholic expression.

"Markus is dead, North. Now it's up to us to decide the future for our people.

I don't know, but I feel like this scene is somehow one of the best when it comes to scenes between these two, besides when Josh takes her away to safety, I think they could have deepened it, just to show the player that these two, despite the different opinions, are on the same side instead of making them see them as two symbols, devil/angel on Markus' shoulder

Although I don't deny that I could have smoked a lot of stuff on things that maybe aren't so :I

[jockons]

feelings of guilt

[markusandnorth]

[mijchi]

[jockons]

[prim42]

it's heavy rain in detroit

[patagoniadreams]

I will never be able to get over her.