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@justchillandliveyourlife
My reactions to reading this comment :
"How about we treat him like he is meant to be treated : beaten up and meowing at the feet of a hot person "
EXCUSE ME
, What the hell do you mean by he is meant to be beaten and meow ?(what is that even supposed to mean) at someone feet ???
Whyyyy can't people treat loki with a little respect and dignity š¤¦āāļø
*sylvie antis*: compare loki and sylvie's trauma to make a point that loki's trauma is more complex, *sylvie defenders* retort by pointing out the ways sylvie's trauma runs deeper and that she didn't have many good things that loki had (material privilege). *sylvie antis* "STOP COMPARING PEOPLE'S TRAUMAAAS WHY ARE SYLVIE STANS LIKE THIS, IT'S NOT A COMPETITION"
Yea, and they they claim they're not the ones making it a competition.
I have yet to see a "sylvie anti" or anyone say that loki trauma is worse..... Like have you meet anyone of those ultra pro max rare people please do point me in that direction š .
Because I can point you towards all those people who are eager to dismiss loki trauma and pain.
But I have always seen sylvie fans go over and over about how sylvie had more trauma and see a lot of people dismiss loki trauma as something that was never even true to begin with. Like people on reddit or people under video of odin and loki commenting how loki family always loved him.
His whole post try to make it seem like "sylvie antis" are the ones who try to compare their trauma and that "sylvie defenders " are just saying that sylvie had more trauma.....
One thing I find hilarious and ridiculous is that even in this post the op is saying how sylvie has more trauma and loki is privileged. šš
*sylvie defenders* retort by pointing out the ways sylvie's trauma runs deeper and that she didn't have many good things that loki had (material privilege).
SylVie tRauMa rUnS dEEpEr š„ŗš„ŗš„ŗš„ŗš„ŗ
Also you guys are probably the one who compare trauma first not us sylvie fans šššš.
LOOK AT SOME OF THE FUCKING INTERVIEWS WHERE THE WRITERS ALWAYS COMPARE LOKI AND SYLVIE TRAUMA AND SAY HOW SYLVIE HAD A HARDER LIFE THAN LOKI.
NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT , LOKI FANS ARE NOT THE ONE DOING THE FUCKING TRAUMA COMPETITION
Do you have anything better to do than to spam my posts from 3 YEARS AGO with your condescending disagreements? I hope you're very young because you lack media literacy.
MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING POSTS.
Also, what is described there regarding fan behavior did happen 3-5 years ago.
I wouldn't necessarily say Sylvie's trauma "runs deeper", those are OP's words. but she clearly was deprived of things Loki had, and she got an unnecessarily high amount of hate.
I have a lot of better things to do, but seeing this trauma competition for the 100th time is very ,very annoying . Especially seeing how the op was trying to say that actually other people compare their trauma and sylvie fans are only defending Poor , poor sylvie. š„ŗ .
Now me regarding your rebloging your post I apologize for that , I was merely looking through some of those because I likes some lokis meta and happened to come across these ones I have only rebloged two. One with this freaking trauma competition and another one complaining why loki centric blog talk about loki mainly , and both which I just could not keep my mouth shut about because of how ridiculous they were.
But again I deeply apologize for that and if my behavior was wrong .
I just fucking hate this shit.
Also, what is described there regarding fan behavior did happen 3-5 years ago.
I wouldn't necessarily say Sylvie's trauma "runs deeper", those are OP's words. but she clearly was deprived of things Loki had, and she got an unnecessarily high amount of hate.
If this is more of a criticism /hate towards op words not you. And I have seen post from years ago too.it is pretty clear who was doing the trauma competition.(cough *the writers and sylvie fans* cough) And yes sylvie had the same "privilege " as loki till her nexus event. It was only after that she was deprived of those. (And loki too was "deprived " of those later too , no? )But that doesn't make loki issue and trauma any lesser , so I don't see why people love to bring that up.
I don't know about "unnecessary " ....I say the hate is less .(I am talking about hate towards the character not the actress cause that was harresmemt and was infact unnecessary)
I do infact make my own post but mainly reblog things I can't keep my mouth shut about.
Once again I did like to apologize if my behavior was rude . I just get passive aggressive a lot of time an can't keep my mouth shut against loki slander especially if the slander isn't even right.
*sylvie antis*: compare loki and sylvie's trauma to make a point that loki's trauma is more complex, *sylvie defenders* retort by pointing out the ways sylvie's trauma runs deeper and that she didn't have many good things that loki had (material privilege). *sylvie antis* "STOP COMPARING PEOPLE'S TRAUMAAAS WHY ARE SYLVIE STANS LIKE THIS, IT'S NOT A COMPETITION"
Yea, and they they claim they're not the ones making it a competition.
I have yet to see a "sylvie anti" or anyone say that loki trauma is worse..... Like have you meet anyone of those ultra pro max rare people please do point me in that direction š .
Because I can point you towards all those people who are eager to dismiss loki trauma and pain.
But I have always seen sylvie fans go over and over about how sylvie had more trauma and see a lot of people dismiss loki trauma as something that was never even true to begin with. Like people on reddit or people under video of odin and loki commenting how loki family always loved him.
His whole post try to make it seem like "sylvie antis" are the ones who try to compare their trauma and that "sylvie defenders " are just saying that sylvie had more trauma.....
One thing I find hilarious and ridiculous is that even in this post the op is saying how sylvie has more trauma and loki is privileged. šš
*sylvie defenders* retort by pointing out the ways sylvie's trauma runs deeper and that she didn't have many good things that loki had (material privilege).
SylVie tRauMa rUnS dEEpEr š„ŗš„ŗš„ŗš„ŗš„ŗ
Also you guys are probably the one who compare trauma first not us sylvie fans šššš.
LOOK AT SOME OF THE FUCKING INTERVIEWS WHERE THE WRITERS ALWAYS COMPARE LOKI AND SYLVIE TRAUMA AND SAY HOW SYLVIE HAD A HARDER LIFE THAN LOKI.
NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT , LOKI FANS ARE NOT THE ONE DOING THE FUCKING TRAUMA COMPETITION
Do you have anything better to do than to spam my posts from 3 YEARS AGO with your condescending disagreements? I hope you're very young because you lack media literacy.
MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING POSTS.
Also, what is described there regarding fan behavior did happen 3-5 years ago.
I wouldn't necessarily say Sylvie's trauma "runs deeper", those are OP's words. but she clearly was deprived of things Loki had, and she got an unnecessarily high amount of hate.
oh my GODDDD jean got bangs to look like sara š
So , guess who has found another doomed , cursed siblings duo , from which i am going to be obsessed over and defend one of them forever ?
Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
RANT POST
Soooo I saw a post that was comparing loki and sylvie trauma and talking about loki crimes and sylvie actions in season 2 while talking about hypocrisy.....
God, here we goš®āšØ...
So they basically said something like this .
they said that "loki killing people and committing genocide is okay and he is "misunderstood " because he has daddy issue but sylvie growing up in apocalypse and lashing out because she doesn't want to to lose her chance of normal live is not ? The hypocrisy "
(This is the closest thing I can say about that post , the post was longer because they actually went more in detail about sylvie trauma . )
I wish I could reblog it but when I replied to them in the comments they blocked me , I think ? But I am going to do a breakdown here again because I am pissed at the trauma competition Sylvie fans are obsessed with. And how they love to compare loki and sylvie and try to talk about hypocrisy and double standard while being hypocrite themselves š.
ā¢ The audacity to reduce loki whole pain and suffering to two words "daddy issue" while going in detail about sylvie trauma .
Loki was mistreated, neglected, abandoned by his own birth father left out to die , was raised to see his own race as monsters while growing up in a society which was racist to jotuns ,tried to kill himself , Has his universe die , WAS MADE TO WATCH HIS PARENTS DIE , planet destroyed, was tortured, spend centuries in a time loop trying to save people (it is much more than a few centuries but we don't know the exact time ), and is now currently suffering a fate worse than death facing his greatest fear for other people sake .
People trying to reduce this all to "daddy issue " is disgusting. If you want to do a trauma competition have the guts to be fair and do not try to reduce loki trauma and suffering š¤·āāļø.
ā¢You are taking the word "misunderstood " out of context , people say loki was misunderstood in thor 1 because a lot of people (most) seems to think loki was just aiming for the throne in thor 1. Calling him Misunderstood means that he is not understood properly , people misinterpreted his motivations not that he is a uwu angel baby .
ā¢ Secondly , You are compare and talk about loki crimes , Compare loki CRIMES to sylvie CRIMES
Loki committing genocide and his kills in NYI (which is 74 ) is comparable to sylvie bombing the sacred timeline possibly killing millions and mind raping innocent civilians to USE THEM FOR HER PLANS and she has been shown to willingly kill innocent people like that old lady , that train guy etc.
The only difference between both of these situations is loki got held accountable for his crimes. He was sended to jail in isolation (which could be considered torture in some countries) , he was threatened by thor and his friends . He payed for his crimes he was held accountable.
Remind me what happened to sylvie ? Did someone threw her in jail? Or was she held accountable for her crimes? Her kill count of innocent people is much higher than loki.
If you wanna compare his crimes so badly, compare the consequences too. (Not too mention he tried to become better now and has literally done enough to atone for those. ) But compare and talk about the consequences of their actions too.
The irony that the post wanted to talk about hypocrisy and while showing clear bias is hilarious and ridiculous at the same time š®āšØ.
(And why the fuck are you people talking shit about loki in the tag of loki laufeyson ?? I have lost respect for the tags , cause the amount of times I have seen sylvie fans say shit about loki while kicking him down a peg in a loki laufeyson tag is crazyyyy)
If you want to do compare them atleast have the guts to do it properly. Don't be a fucking coward .
this scene in the avengers has always gave me a lot of SA subtext tbh. itās just kinda blatant to me considering the whole theme of āinnocent to sadisticā of Loki between Thor 1 and Avengers (which this is a common result of SA) added onto Lokiās body language, the way he shakes and cries in the scene and the way āThe Otherā is touching his face has always given me the creeps considering how comfortable he is with doing it and touching parts of him that aren't casually touched most of the time (his face) and how Loki immediately submits and seems terrified by him touching him. I know people talk about Loki being tortured (and I think that's definitely implied also) but also possibly groomed in a lot of different ways because the line āhe's ready to leadā kinda implies that to some degree. sorry this is a lot and super dark but I've been thinking about this and can't get it out of my head after rewatching the first Avengers and wonder if this is could be a somewhat general consensus ?
The scene is in fact incredibly creepy, especially the way it shows Loki fully expecting this invasive, painful touch to come and doing his best not to flinch because it's the only thing he can do. He knows he cannot escape it, he knows The Other takes pleasure in it, he knows nobody is ever going to stop it. I also am a firm believer that The Black order is not above using SA as a form of torture.
Overall, MCU Loki has plenty of scenes that could be interpreted as carrying such subtext, especially his interactions with the Grandmaster, and there is a running theme of Loki's bodily autonomy being disrespected/violated constantly: by The Other, by the Grandmaster, by the TVA workers (the entire Sif scene was creepy as hell and nobody can tell me it wasn't). There is also something about his storyline that feels like he's constantly being trafficked for the sake if exploiting him: Odin takes him to Asgard with a selfish goal in mind, and there is this implication of "asgardian spy" thing, then Thanos keeps him hostage and does horrible things to him, The Grandmaster is also keeping him hostage (the entire planet, too) and is being a huge creep, the TVA are kidnapping him off the street and force him to work on them, and H.Y.D.R.A is attempting to get him as their new asset, and they pretty much say so in front of the avengers (the avengers did not, in fact, bat an eye). It is violation of his autonomy again and again and then some more. It doesn't help that we constantly see him forcefully kneeling, muzzled, shackled, stripped, etc.
And, as you have mentioned before, his change of behavior also plays into it. (The calla lily symbolism from T1 makes it ten times worse, I think).
So, yeah, I see why it is a common interpretation that Loki has been assaulted. Everything we see on screen is screaming of rape imaginary. (Especially considering that unwanted face touch has been used by the MCU itself to imply SA in TFaTWS)
Rant post !
I am so sad by the lack of sympathy loki gets by his own "fans" .....
Actually I don't think he even has real fans left the only people left in the fandom are people who just ship him with other characters or people who used to dislike loki before. Or the fan Boys who only care about the power scaling.
The actual fans who actually sympathize with loki are very less.....
It is so sad to see , this all for some reason makes me very upset š¤§šš
*sylvie antis*: compare loki and sylvie's trauma to make a point that loki's trauma is more complex, *sylvie defenders* retort by pointing out the ways sylvie's trauma runs deeper and that she didn't have many good things that loki had (material privilege). *sylvie antis* "STOP COMPARING PEOPLE'S TRAUMAAAS WHY ARE SYLVIE STANS LIKE THIS, IT'S NOT A COMPETITION"
Yea, and they they claim they're not the ones making it a competition.
I have yet to see a "sylvie anti" or anyone say that loki trauma is worse..... Like have you meet anyone of those ultra pro max rare people please do point me in that direction š .
Because I can point you towards all those people who are eager to dismiss loki trauma and pain.
But I have always seen sylvie fans go over and over about how sylvie had more trauma and see a lot of people dismiss loki trauma as something that was never even true to begin with. Like people on reddit or people under video of odin and loki commenting how loki family always loved him.
His whole post try to make it seem like "sylvie antis" are the ones who try to compare their trauma and that "sylvie defenders " are just saying that sylvie had more trauma.....
One thing I find hilarious and ridiculous is that even in this post the op is saying how sylvie has more trauma and loki is privileged. šš
*sylvie defenders* retort by pointing out the ways sylvie's trauma runs deeper and that she didn't have many good things that loki had (material privilege).
SylVie tRauMa rUnS dEEpEr š„ŗš„ŗš„ŗš„ŗš„ŗ
Also you guys are probably the one who compare trauma first not us sylvie fans šššš.
LOOK AT SOME OF THE FUCKING INTERVIEWS WHERE THE WRITERS ALWAYS COMPARE LOKI AND SYLVIE TRAUMA AND SAY HOW SYLVIE HAD A HARDER LIFE THAN LOKI.
NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT , LOKI FANS ARE NOT THE ONE DOING THE FUCKING TRAUMA COMPETITION
It's just me or Loki stans tend not to care about female character's much? One thing I've noticed about Loki-centric blogs is that some of them have side blorbos, but always male blorbos. They only care about female characters when they have some canon connection to Loki so they can talk about him through talking about her, and only when the connection in question is platonic (Verity, Frigga...). When Loki has a canonically romantic/sexual connection with a woman (Amora, Sylvie, Lorelei, etc) they either demonize her or erase the romantic factor to make them into ~mean queer besties~ like he's her gay bff. There's a difference between disliking het (valid) and erasing the canon dynamic of his relationships with women because the thought of their canon bi fave liking icky women makes them uncomfortable. Face it, Loki fandom: your fave likes boobs and coochie, stop pretending otherwise. You don't have to personally ship het to recognize that some women canonically turn him on and/or matter to him romantically.
I don't think it's unique to Loki stans. It's a misogyny problem that is both based on the biases within fandom and those of the writers. The Loki fandom is far from being the only one that targets a woman love interest so viciously (*cough* ST fandom, I've also heard other Marvel ships are like that too). And I definitely do get annoyed when Loki's bisexuality gets erased because they don't deem the female characters worthy. And yea, they'll always try to make it platonic with women characters. The "these two characters with little shared background that kissed are siblings" shit is so fucking annoying. It's fine if it's not your cup of tea,but pretending they have "sibling energy" is weird.
Writing biases:
S2 gave very little exploration to the female characters. And most Marvel female characters have little depth. Like just look at the Thor movies, we don't know much about Sif (personality is the woman warrior), Frigga(personality is mom), and Jane is just there as love interest for Thor. Valkyrie's interesting but her name isn't given in Ragnarok, and I heard she got sidelined in TLAT, the movie I refuse to watch. Sylvie had decent focus in S1 but was sidelined in S2 and relegated to product placement.
Speaking of the source material, I am not joking when I say many of the female character's characterizations in the comics before maybe the 2010s were nothing but "wanting to fuck Thor." Also, BW was a prime example of Whedon's "empowering" brand of sexualized strong female character and took forever to get her movie after getting unceremoniously fridged.
Granted, I have not kept up-to-date with Marvel movies because I am only interested in Loki and I find a lot of characters annoying, in case the shitty writing conventions for female characters have improved.
Fandom biases:
Fandom can't stomach anything other than saccharine sweetness as a personality for women, especially when they interact with a popular male character. It has been shown that in real life, women are more likely to be seen as rude or bitches for more tame behavior than men.
People claiming that Mobius was "compassionate" for blaming Loki for his mother's death and locking him in a time loop where he's beaten repeatedly, while Sylvie calling him a "clown" was "abusive".
This is interesting and one of the many examples against "abusive women are given a pass" because the "victim" in question is the same Tumblr sexyman, but the woman's non-abusive behavior that makes sense in-context is scrutinized ridiculously and Loki was not hurt physically by it, while Mobius "gave him therapy".
No one can even argue it's because Loki is the Tumblr fandom fave rather than pure fucking misogyny because actual harm to Loki gets passed as being for his own good by a rather vocal portion of fans when it's a man doing it. You'd think the fandom would have lost their shit over one of the OG Tumblr Sexymen being mistreated. But nah. (And yes, I forgave Mobius for risking his skin for Loki in S2, lol. He more than made up for it.).
Also, Sylvie RIGHTFULLY called Mobius out for putting his head in the dirt like a fucking ostrich, and the fandom threw a fit and babied him.
Well , I have read some of your posts and I agree with a lot of them. But some are I disagree with , I initially thought I shouldn't reblog but this is bothering me a little . So this is kinda my reply to clarify some things. I know I should just leave it be buttttttt .....I can't
It's just me or Loki stans tend not to care about female character's much? One thing I've noticed about Loki-centric blogs is that some of them have side blorbos, but always male blorbos. They only care about female characters when they have some canon connection to Loki so they can talk about him through talking about her, and only when the connection in question is platonic (Verity, Frigga...). When Loki has a canonically romantic/sexual connection with a woman (Amora, Sylvie, Lorelei, etc) they either demonize her or erase the romantic factor to make them into ~mean queer besties~ like he's her gay bff.
I am sorry are you asking why loki centric blogs ...........mainly talk about loki and his interactions with other characters??????
this my was reaction to reading this....
Hello š it is a LOKI CENTRIC BLOG , of course I would talk about him . What do you want me to do talk about tony stark , captain america, captain marvel , when neither they are my comfort characters nor I relate to them ???
Do you also say wanda centric blogs should not only talk about wanda or should not only talk about male characters when they interact with her ???
If by "demonize " sylvie relationship with loki you mean call out the toxicity and abuse. I guess I do that because even if the canon "romance " is toxic and unhealthy. I would still call it out. Other than that I have yet to see anyone talk about amora tho probably because she is not introduced in the mcu.
And I don't care what woman or man "turned him on" , if the he is actually in a healthy relationship, were the other person cares about loki as much as he would care about them.
S2 gave very little exploration to the female characters. And most Marvel female characters have little depth. Like just look at the Thor movies, we don't know much about Sif (personality is the woman warrior), Frigga(personality is mom), and Jane is just there as love interest for Thor. Valkyrie's interesting but her name isn't given in Ragnarok, and I heard she got sidelined in TLAT, the movie I refuse to watch. Sylvie had decent focus in S1 but was sidelined in S2 and relegated to product placement.
The things you have pointed out in here (mostly) are more like writing flaws rather than writers bias. Not only sif but the other warrior three personalities were very badly developed. You can describe their personality in like 2 or 3 words at surface level. Frigga and odin both role were just being parents. We were not really told much about either.(and frigga less than odin as she died earlier). Whereas valkyrie and korg were kinda sidelined in TLAT because the focus was on jane and thor.
It is more like the thor franchise writers don't know how to properly develop any supporting characters (the exception being loki) properly š¤·āāļø.
That sylvie case is the only one where I can agree that it may be due to the writers bias. Sylvie was kate and Waldron fav so she got the whole season 1 and loki was sidelined whereas Eric fav seems to be mobius so sylvie was sidelined.
Both the writers were playing The bias game.
(that's how I see it because I don't care much about sylvie being sidelined because loki got sidelined in season 1).
This is interesting and one of the many examples against "abusive women are given a pass" because the "victim" in question is the same Tumblr sexyman, but the woman's non-abusive behavior that makes sense in-context is scrutinized ridiculously and Loki was not hurt physically by it, while Mobius "gave him therapy".
Sylvie behavior towards loki Is abusive especially if you consider it from the aspect of the so called "canonically romantic relationship " you want fans to talk about in there blogs and not "erase it" .
(And yes I can explain why and how if you want to ?)
There is no such thing as the context making sense of abuse. And I don't understand what does loki being the og tumblr sexymen have to do with being a victim? Why does it matter how popular he is , if he is getting mistreated??? Does him being tumblr sexymen makes the stuff happen to him okay?
And I do agree that whole mobius " therapy " was bullshit and was literally just psychological torture and the God awful time loop scene š¤¢ was even worse.
Mobius is toxic and so is sylvie . Point them both out. In defense of sylvie being a asshole to loki you can't just say "Well , Mobius is also toxic , so that makes sylvie treating loki like shit okay š š"
They hired a Rick & Morty writer who basically reused an original sci-fi script he already had lying around (it's online so you can see the similarities) about a loser guy travelling through a dystopian future with a determined woman sent to kill him (because an alternate version of him becomes the president, but evil) and they fall in love. It's called "The worst guy of all time and the girl who came to kill him".
SOURCE
Genre: Action Thriller Sci-Fi Romantic Comedy Premise: Barret is a social media influencer, the worst guy ever, and the eventual President o
O.K. if that is true then that explains Sylvie 100% ... because the problem is, she is still Dixie, but Duke has been replaced by Loki and HIS backstory ... meaning she is angry at him for things he didn't do and never will do ...
Which is interesteing becasue I always got the vibe that she was angry at him for things that happened in his future/her past ...
So ... ahm ... very good bad writting?
Loki kind of exists in the worst place of privilege. He lives in a nice house sure, but he has no real position of authority no one likes or listen to him, he doesn't really fit in and he can't just leave. He can't just set off on his own and like get his Master degree. He pretty much stuck on Asgard where he has no choice but to obey Societal expectations even if he doesn't believe in them.
All that and probably the worst part: he probably doesn't understand what he's been put through either.
Finding out about abuse as a victim is absolutely insane and mind-blowing, especially in cases like this where it's your own family the ones who are mistreating you because it's all you've ever known and you're accustomed to blaming yourself for things they do. So if you are lucky enough to attend therapy and/or therapy groups that helps a great deal but something tells me those didn't exist on Asgard so... how could Loki ever figure out that the way his family was treating him wasn't right?
Sure, finding out they had been lying to him is an easy one: they knew the truth, they kept it from him, that's clearly wrong. But here comes the "I wanted to protect you from the truth" (but why is the truth a bad thing?) and "he kept you from the truth so that you wouldn't feel different" (but why is being different bad?) and the indoctrination of "the Jotuns are monsters" and "the Asgardians are the superior beings", and yeah lying is bad but.... being a Jotun is worse? (I'm saying he'd think that not that they are)
And like you say, he lives in a palace and he is privileged but not really, plus he doesn't really have anyone to talk to. Frigga is an enabler and is not going to take him seriously, all she's going to focus on is keeping the family together by all means necessary, Odin is completely unavailable emotionally and poor Thor has his own issues to deal with and he's not ready at all to accept that his father is anything but perfect.
All this to say that yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you š
He can't just set off on his own and like get his Master degree
That's what's the most tragic thing for him really. Loki has nothing that's truly his not even his future. He is trapped in a place he's an outcast and there's no option to self actualize. Something that came up in early version of Thor 2011 was how it Loki was expected to help and guide Thor when he became king. Which on the surface might seem like they're equals in Asgard, but really for Loki it's just him always expected to be support told he's second always forever.
Their birthright is a gilded cage
I always loved how loki clocked this pretty much immediately when he found out heād been lied to. ājust another stolen relic, locked up here until you might have use of meā. We donāt talk about that part enough.
Itās also a huge part of why I see Lokiās transition from the end of Thor 1 to Avengers as so satisfying and liberating, even if it was a shit situation for him. Like yeah sure the Thanos part sucked. But for the first time in his entire life, heās separated himself from Asgard. Itās a major step in his journey of standing on his own.
MOTHER IS BACK FOR DOOMSDAY !!!!
The relationship between Loki and Mobius is not friendship. It is a classic abusive relationship. Loki is in a place of powerlessness and vulnerability. (Heās only a few days away from torture and mind control by Thanos and company, and less then an hour after having his ass pounded into the concrete by the Hulk.) Mobius breaks him down further by showing Loki selected negative views of Lokiās life.(Where is the time he saved Thor, or Jane? Or brought the gladiators and the big ship to rescue the Asgardians? Or followed his brotherās orders to release Surtur as the only way to destroy Hela. Hela who Odin, not Loki made and unleashed on Asgard. Or gave up his life for Thor.) He acts as if he is Lokiās only hope and pretends to admire him, but also tells him he is worthless for anything but making other people better. He then offers to save Loki from death, if Loki does what he wants. Mobius paints himself as the magnanimous helper, and then tells Loki his only purpose in keeping him alive may be to hunt down the other Loki. (Thus keeping Loki on edge and uncertain of his fate.) He insults him, in private and in front of other people. He calls himĀ āice runtā knowing that Loki gaining knowledge of his heritage, is what caused his mental breakdown. When Loki complies with Mobius, he get grudging praise.Ā When Loki attempts to leave this abusive relationship and is physically dragged back he is called a ābad friendā. Mobius questions him and calls him cockroach and liar and wonāt tell him if the one person he was beginning to care for is alive or dead. Loki is again threatened with death (He thought the memory prison was a death chamber) and then he is subject to emotional and physical abuse until he gives into his abuser and sees himself as worthless.Ā Only after Loki breaks down and Mobius needs him for his own reasons, (Not because he cares about Loki) does Mobius stop the torture, start the praise again.Ā So why does Loki call himĀ āfriend?āĀ For the same reason a woman who is standing before her abuser with two blackeyes and three broken ribs responds to her abusers with offers of forgiveness. Its called survival in the face of complete helplessness.Ā I know this is just a fantasy. But honestly I hope like hell people will see what is really going on and what you are being spoon fed as āfriendshipā.Ā Mobius is Lokiās handler, not his friend. He is as Rumsfeld is to the Winter Soldier, justĀ more subtle about it.Ā Ā
Reblog if Loki army still exists
Hey guys,......Is Loki army dead?
I absolutely hate the take that Sylvie is a reflection of Loki from T1/A1/TDW, because he had never been this selfish and arrogant in his entire life, excuse me, this man jumped in to save Fandral (the member of the group that actively bullied him) the second he heard him scream, while living through one of the most traumatic moments in his existence, he is mentioned to save W4 (once again, people who bullied him) on multiple occasions, he obviously freaks out over Thor being banished, in TDW he almost dies saving Jane, a total stranger who slapped him in the face the same day, and that's just what comes up from the top of my memory, I can continue further.
A1? Yes, let's take the character when he's tortured and brainwashed into insanity, and say it's just the way he is. (And even then, he is way nicer and more concerned towards Selvig and Barton than Sylvie is towards anyone at all times)
Every decision she makes is completely selfish and often actively hurts everyone in the room or the multiverse, she is very cruel from the start till the end of the show.
That being said, no, Mobius is not in any way, shape or form a good or kind person, nah.
Sylvieās (very few) fans have this weird thing where they want to say Sylvie is her own person , but also turn around and be all āWell sheās also a Loki! Sheās like Loki, too!ā depending on how their mood is. But yeah, this selfish, arrogant, obnoxious character isnāt anything like Loki in any way, shape, or form- and the fact this take exist is annoying and seems to come from a source who hasnāt seen any of the films.
Thereās a reason not even people who liked the series like Sylvie.
Yes to everything both of you have said
Reminder that making Loki and Sylvie romantic was not a huge mistake. It was very smart and very in-character.
Not because they love themselves. Thatās just a very clever writerās play on the Loki-Trope-words.
Because sheās the most not-him person that there is. He wants to be the center of attention. She wants to live a quiet life left alone. He wants to take thrones and rule. She wants to topple thrones and rulers. He wants to tyrannize and enslave. She wants to set whole realities free. He sets traps to defeat his most hated foes. She just runs up and stabs them. He never shuts up. Sheās stoic and quiet.
To people who believe itās weird or gross because āthey share DNAā or ātheyāre siblingsā¦ā Yeah. They share the same DNA, clearlyājust like the Alligator Loki! š And they share parents, clearlyāoh, except they donāt, because Lokiās parents were the kind of people to hide his true origins from him, and Sylvieās parents were as different from that as you can get. They donāt share DNA, they arenāt the same gender, they donāt share memories or a similar history, and they donāt even share a name. Theyāre not like the same person, and theyāre not like siblings.
The places where theyāre similar? Like Sylvieās chip on her shoulder against those whoāve wronged her? Theyāre all the places Loki has grown out of, or is in the process of growing out of when he meets Sylvieāand sheās been hellbent on avenging herself against those whoāve wronged her for her whole life.
Heās in love with her because of theāsay it with meāāIdea of Potentialā that she represents.
Itās just like how Ariel is in love with Eric, even before she gets to know him, because all she needs to know is that his character traits match up with everything sheās always hoped humans could be like. All Loki needs to know about Sylvie is that her character traits match up with everything heās always wished he could be:
Confident instead of pretending to be confident; heroic instead of pretending to be heroic; secure in who he is regardless of what people think of him; able to focus on something bigger than himself; etc. Lokiās never been able to be those things and even convinced himself heās proud of pretendingābut Sylvie genuinely is all those things.
And Sylvie? Since she was stolen from her home and family she has made no connections, had nobody care about her, and focused only on her mission. If she ever had dreams outside of that, it probably revolved around the idea of freedom. Then in comes this guy who not only expresses care for her, but is the type of guy who doesnāt let anybody tell him what he is or what to doāhe can relate to her feelings of hurt, and eventually, tries to help her grow beyond them, too.
They both represent something that the other person has always wanted to do or be, and they both challenge each other, and they both have this big existential hole in their hearts of ānobody wants me or likes meā to relate to each other with.
How is this a mistake? Itās literally the smartest way theyāve ever had Loki make a connection with someone outside his adopted family. (Mobius is cool and all but heās a Thor-stand-in for this Loki, whoās been ripped out of Thorās timeline.)
Iām going to stop beating the dead horse, but basically, if you think Loki and Sylvie as a romantic couple is weird, try and look at it the way it actually is, instead of superimposing āfemale love interest badā or catchy Internet memes like āLoki Show Approves Incestā over everything š
"To people who believe itās weird or gross because āthey share DNAā or ātheyāre siblingsā¦ā Yeah. They share the same DNA, clearlyājust like the Alligator Loki! š And they share parents, clearlyāoh, except they donāt, because Lokiās parents were the kind of people to hide his true origins from him, and Sylvieās parents were as different from that as you can get. They donāt share DNA,
Loki is a shapeshifter, for all we know alligator š loki is just a loki who refuse to be in a more "human " form, and just wants to be a alligator š¤·āāļø. They do share the same parents kind of, in sylvie universe odin and frigga just decided to be more smart and caring and tell her about her origin. Whereas loki odin and frigga didn't, putting aside adopted parents. Loki and sylvie do have the same biological parents. The ship is literally loki laufeyson x sylvie laufeydottir. This is the closet thing to selfcest. Gross and weird
"they arenāt the same gender, they donāt share memories or a similar history, and they donāt even share a name. "
Yes they are not the same gender on screen ....(because disney and marvel are cowards) loki is genderfluid , technically he is sometimes a woman and sometimes a man. They had same life till sylvie nexus event. Of course they don't share the same name she CHANGED her name.
"Confident instead of pretending to be confident; heroic instead of pretending to be heroic; secure in who he is regardless of what people think of him; able to focus on something bigger than himself; etc. Lokiās never been able to be those things and even convinced himself heās proud of pretendingābut Sylvie genuinely is all those things."
Oh boy, do I have a lot of say on this post.
I agree on this whole loki likes sylvie because he thinks that sylvie is not like him that she is different (I emphasize on think he thinks she is better and oh so much different than him)
Confident instead of pretending to be confident;
No pushing your identity away . Her being so insisted on how she is not a loki ( while also wearing loki horns and similar custom and have his iconic green color) is not confidence, that is low self esteem. Tho their is not any in universe explanation on why she is so against on the idea of being a "loki " , how can someone who seems to reject their previous identity be seen as "confidence "? Like what does she even think being a loki means?
heroic instead of pretending to be heroic;
I am sorry , Are you calling sylvie heroic ?š¤£š¤£š¤£ this is one of the most hilarious thing I have seen sylvie fans say. Which is something a lot of her fans claim. This will never stop being hilarious and at the same time be a ridiculous thing to say. Well putting this aside because if you want to talk about this I am willing to make a whole new argument on this whole ShE iS HeRoIC argument. Here I will just point that loki has never pretended to be someone heroic, he has never done anything like that. Sure maybe (focus on the maybe) he does want to be seen as that, or be a better person but he has never "pretended" to be heroic.
able to focus on something bigger than himself;
One of his problem is that he focus too much on others.
Loki has always looked out for others he has spent a good amount of his screen time in the mcu trying to gain other approval or thinking about others.
He saved fandral in thor 1 when he was going to a mental breakdown,He almost died saving jane twice in tdw , he in the first place brought the frost giants in asgard , so his parents would see that thor is not het ready to be king or in his words "save asgard from my idiotic brother rule a while longer", he also has shown care for frigga and odin I feel like this one is obvious so I am not going to talk about this. And even in LS he was trying to give pep talk to a girl he meet 12 hours ago which seems to look down on him and was trying to compliment and make HER feel better in his "last "moments.
but Sylvie genuinely is all those things."
Funnily enough it is actually sylvie who doesn't care about anyone except herself. And she is one of the least "heroic" varient of loki we have seen. Like please tell me about "heroic " actions of her are you talking about ?
All Loki needs to know about Sylvie is that her character traits match up with everything heās always wished he could be:
I agree with this one and this is the reason why I hate this ship so much. Loki "loves" her because he think she is better than him (but she actually is not), there could not be anything more toxic than this. He looks down on himself , for all the writers going how this whole sylki bullshit is self love. Sylki is the farthest thing from self love.
And she is not even in any way better than him or somethinghe should wish to be like, she isn't kinder ,she doesn't have better morals or anything that loki could learn. She is a much worse person than him. I guess the only thing she is better at than him is violence.
Because sheās the most not-him person that there is. He wants to be the center of attention. She wants to live a quiet life left alone. He wants to take thrones and rule. She wants to topple thrones and rulers. He wants to tyrannize and enslave. She wants to set whole realities free. He sets traps to defeat his most hated foes. She just runs up and stabs them. He never shuts up. Sheās stoic and quiet.
He wants to be the center of attention. She wants to live a quiet life left alone
Their is absolutely nothing wrong with loki wanting attention because he was neglected his whole life. I donāt understand why you needed to say this , this whole paragraph feels like you are pointing out how she is different and of so much better than him. "How he wants to rule and she just wants peace š"
He never shuts up. Sheās stoic and quiet.
Again him being talkative is not something negative
He wants to take thrones and rule. She wants to topple thrones and rulers.
The end game of his motivation was not the throne it was knowledgement and love. He only wanted the throne in 1 flim, in which he was not even completely himself properly because all his negative emotions were amplified because of the mind stone.
Thor one loki literally says "I never wanted the throne I only wanted to be your equal" also frigga was the one who made him king and in that scene he looks confused and uncertain. In thor dark world he offers the throne to thor and in ragnorak he again offers to try to "rule" TOGETHER with thor. In infinity war , again he has no personal or selfish motivation .
Her end motivation was her revenge, loki in his goal of "wanting a throne" (which is actually just knowledgement and recognization) and her goal of "topple throne "(which is just revenge) and both have hurted other innocent people , sylvie much more than loki. Again not much difference, not something for loki to look at and think she is better than me.
And Sylvie? Since she was stolen from her home and family she has made no connections, had nobody care about her, and focused only on her mission. If she ever had dreams outside of that, it probably revolved around the idea of freedom. Then in comes this guy who not only expresses care for her, but is the type of guy who doesnāt let anybody tell him what he is or what to doāhe can relate to her feelings of hurt, and eventually, tries to help her grow beyond them, too.
So she only cares that there is this guy who is willing to compliment her and talk about how much great she is and shut ups and do whatever she says and as soon as he goes against her and didn't want to kill hwr , she throws him through a time door ...Wow , how lovely and romantic š
(Fucking toxic son of a bitch)
but is the type of guy who doesnāt let anybody tell him what he is or what to do
But tva loki is just doing any thing other are telling him too, he didn't have his own goal or motivation. The stupid writers made loki entire self in season 1 just be a sidelined character to just shut up and support the creator pet named sylvie.
he can relate to her feelings of hurt, and eventually, tries to help her grow beyond them, too.
he did try to do that and what did he got in return , just more hurt and betrayal...
How is this a mistake? Itās literally the smartest way theyāve ever had Loki make a connection with someone outside his adopted family. (Mobius is cool and all but heās a Thor-stand-in for this Loki, whoās been ripped out of Thorās timeline.)
This whole sylki thing is as smart as mobius psychological breaking loki in ep 1 and then calling it therapy, it is as smart as them calling loki a narcissistic. (Aka this is dumb)
The way the writers talk about sylki is that loki is learning self love because of the relationship which is not true, he likes her because he thinks she is different then him , I can't even put it more properly into words then this. You liking someone because you believe them to be better than you , and blaming yourself for things that aren't your fault, or just caring about the other person so much while they don't give a damn about who is one of the most unhealthy, and toxic thing ever. As I said this is the farthest thing from " self love" . Cherry on top of the cake , sylvie is not even actually better than loki, there is nothing to learn.
I would argue sylvie is more like the stand in for thor. Both are someone who loki believes to be better than him. Both seems to look down on him and yet loki just follows them š
Even you in this while post talks as if sylvie actual is better than loki and loki can kearn something from her (spoiler alert he can't )which she is not neither she seems to admire loki as he admires or care about her("admire" lol , damn poor loki he has such a low self esteem), so that fails too.
They both represent something that the other person has always wanted to do or be, and they both challenge each other, and they both have this big existential hole in their hearts of ānobody wants me or likes meā to relate to each other with.
Yes loki seems to think sylvie is "heroic " and "different "than him, but sylvie ? She has constantly shown to believe herself as smarter and better
She has a habit of telling him to shut up, she calls his plan stupid on two occasions the writers have literally called her " the superior varient "on writers and literally in the show.
She has not even in one scene shown any sort of admiration for loki. So I wonder why you are saying that loki represents something sylvie want to be like because we have not been shown anything like that.
nobody wants me or likes meā
Again when has sylvie shown any emotion like that?
Iām going to stop beating the dead horse, but basically, if you think Loki and Sylvie as a romantic couple is weird, try and look at it the way it actually is, instead of superimposing āfemale love interest badā or catchy Internet memes like āLoki Show Approves Incestā over everything š
I think loki and sylvie as a couple is incrediblely toxic , unhealthy and abuse. Loki deserves better than that. And yeah I do think it is weird, especially after spidey varient referring to each other as brothers. But my main issue is that I can't fucking stand this toxic ship. And other calling loki a narcissistic. I am looking at the way it actually is ,a toxic ship. My "catchy" phrase is sylki is toxic. Which people ignore because #Gurlboss š®āšØ
Well ,putting this all aside . I am a little confused you tag the pro sylki as anti sylki, because you wanted anti sylki people to be "open minded " ,and see your point okay..cool but you also said that if you only tagged it sylki, anti sylki who want to argue would only see this and argue..but what makes you think anyone who does see it in anti sylki tag won't argue if they want to ? People who are going to sylki tags to argue would obviously argue on a pro sylki post in a anti sylki tag. That doesn't make much sense... And aren't people who go to sylki tags to put there view "open minded" , why see that as just argument not as being open minded. You want them to see your point then you should see their points too.
But okay š I think I am going to be like that too, this is a good decision sylvie and sylki fans should be "open minded" too. For all how much they call sylvie heroic and claim the hate is because of misogynists they should see the actual valid reasons, instead of screaming misogynists at everyone and ignoring all the valid reason . For how much they say she is "complex " and people don't understand a moral grey character(calling her "complex" is so funny) they should see the the argument on how she is a terribly written character. Instead of putting complex before her name to make it seem like she is a very well written character.
I love wanda she as a character, She has been through so much and people compare that thor and peter have also been through trauma as if that supposed to make her pain an less... Everyone copes differently some people just act worse ro trauma. Even after every thing she has done till wandavision I can understand and not hate her for it.
She did somethings bad but also somethings good. She IS a complex character...But MOM wanda I hate her. I CAN'T STAND HER. That movie ruined wanda for me. Well I do hope that she returns and held accountable for those crimes but is back at the "good"side again too. But I doubt they will actually do it properly š I am probably not going to like how they handle her in the upcoming movie as marvel does have a narrative bias to her..
