For the record, I do kind of like the idea of Enoch being translated into the angel Metatron (sometimes calledĀ āthe Lesser YHWHā) as a typological figure to Christ; that a human being has somehow shed his human nature and become an angel. Especially when we contrast that with Christ assuming a human nature, and in doing so raising all the other humans above the angels. And I like the idea of Elijah essentially roaming the earth in a state of Greater Occultation, generally hidden from the world except when he has something important to say to particular people in private revelations. Itās just I donāt find either of these ideas compelling enough to stake actual faith in them right now.
@platonicallyinlove said:Ā But grace perfects nature, it does not destroy it. Angelic nature is not more perfect than human nature. If Enoch did become Metatron like the Jewish mystics believe, then Enoch does not exist anymore. The saints in Heaven are not angels. They are still human. In a sense, they are more human that they ever were on earth. I find the notion sad that Enoch somehow was excluded from this human destiny.
That first part is really why I would be hesitant to put any real stock in the belief; the fact that this would make him a bit of a tragic figure in contradistinction with Christ (I guess I glossed over that implication when I said Christ ultimately brings all humans above the angels) was a feature of the typological reading. But I donāt think that God would give a living creature a particular nature, only to basically change that nature so dramatically as to replace it with another one. That still leaves us with the question of what it means that Enoch wasĀ Ī¼ĪµĻĪµĻĪĪøĪ· (taken up/translated)Ā āso that he should not see death.ā I am equally as uncomfortable with the idea of a human being in heaven, having not experienced death, a long time before Jesus Christ even walked the earth. But I guess weāre reaching a 1 Timothy 1:4 situation, where itās best for ourselves and our community to not focus too much on tertiary things beyond our knowledge.
@platonicallyinlove said:Ā And concerning Elijah: The parallelism between him and Moses during the transfiguration is a poetic argument for both being in Heaven. Since the transfiguration is a mystical revelation of Christās divine nature, it allows the disciples to sneak a peek at the community of the world to come.Ā The notion of Elijah still roaming the earth somewhere and being transported to Tabor during the transfiguration would be an odd choice for God, assuming the point was to reveal his divine nature.
MaybeĀ āroamingā was a poor choice to use. ButĀ ātransported to Taborā actually fits what I am imagine better; that Elijah is basically lifted and brought to specfic times and places by God. The issue of this, of course, is that there are no mentions of Elijan apparitions in any Catholic source Iām familiar with. Itās possible that Elijah was carried off somewhere and did die; it seems a little odd that God would take him in such a dramatic way only to put him somewhere else on earth to die. But I guess that is preferable to yet another possibility of someone in heaven subsisting in the body at a time before Jesus was even born. Like I said, I wouldnāt put any stake into any of this stuff. Itās just something interesting to think about.
