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Whipped
Hey!
As someone who knows nothing about thai language, I found your linguistics explanation quite interesting and it got me wondering about how does the phi/nong work in details, like in the new dsn episode Leon said that Fiat's only a few months older than him and he only calls him P' because he started school yearly. Is it somehow similar to the korean yearly birthday situation?
Thai Honorifics Between Ages in BL & in Real LifeÂ
Technically yes but also... no.
phi/nong/ai - honorifics & pronouns
So anyone born the year(s) before you, and/or in school a grade above you, within a few years (amorphous and somewhat generational) should be called P'+name. This is usually considered polite but not very formal.Â
I would say it covers anyone who might be at high school or university with you, so about 4-5 years or so ahead and about 4-5 years or so behind, but it's super flexible. So actors might meet a much older but queer or super hip member of the press who will insist on phi, even though they are a decade or more senior.Â
Phi/Pâ and nong are gender neutral whether uses as an honorific (PâName) or as a I/you pronoun phi.Â
Very loosely phi when used alone as a noun = older sibling and nong when used alone = younger sibling. (Phi is similar but not the same as senpai in Japanese.)Â
For pronouns, the older person will usually use the pronoun version phi to refer to themself as "I" but the younger boy will usually use their own name or pom for IÂ (but rarely nong).Â
Both boys will use the particle krab/kap. (Girls use kha.)
BL shows will occasionally mess with this but the actors in interviews are usually really careful about their phi/nongs & krap/khas.Â
guu/mueng - I and you rude informal pronouns (used the most in BL), should NEVER be spoken by an outsider until said outsider fully understands the implications.Â
The grown up version of all this is khun which is polite, formal, age, and gender neutral. Khun may be used as the you pronoun and as an honorific Khun + Name especially in the workplace. (Thai doesnât really have a sunbae or sensei form of address.) Khun is usually translated as Mr/Mrs/Ms. To confuse matters Khun is also a first name in Thailand and BL.Â
To really confuse matters there are a number of other I/you pronouns (rao, chan, ter) which are (somewhat) gender neutral, definitely situational, and fall into various categories of rudeness, formality, and intimacy.Â
Hia
Hia honorific or you pronoun. Hia functions the same as phi but is used only by those with Chinese ancestry, is masculine, and is slightly more household intimate than phi (more strongly associated with actual siblings/cousins/family members). In UWMA Team calls Win hia (and leaves off the P'Win - cheeky boy), but he uses phi and P'Dean for Dean. In Bad Buddy Patâs sister uses hia with him.
Itâs rare to hear hia used IRL on the actor circuit. But NuNew uses it with Zee (Cutie Pie) which is interesting. They have a soft but strict older/younger dynamic (Zee is almost a decade older then NuNew). And Zee has been through the wringer with a pair before so thereâs a lot of subtext going on here. You can watch them (and hia) in action here.Â
The feminine of hia is jay or je, which is also used in the queer community (usually by request) and often translated as sis, see this use in the flower shop sequence in Oxygen.Â
Exceptions IRL:
OhmFluke. Fluke is older than Ohm but refers to him as P'Ohm and Ohm usually uses a nickname or affectionate diminutive (like nu) on Fluke. They decided this early on in their relationship as actors promoting Until We Meet Again. But it seems genuine to their dynamic and friendship.Â
So clearly phi/nong has some flexibility of choice built into it socially.
PP & Billkin (I Told Sunset About You) opted for this kind of role reversal as well.Â
SantaEarth. Earth clearly does not like how much older he is than Santa so they have negotiated some kind of complicated referral system between them that I still can't quite follow. But I find kinda fascinating to listen to. Thai is a language where you can actually avoid all pronouns most of the time and still clearly communicate. These two seem to do that a lot.Â
Exceptions On Screen:
LeonPob. Leon and Pob tackle modes of address many times in Donât Say No. In ep 10, over the phone Leon says if Pob uses just Pob (no phi) as the âIâ pronoun when they are talking, Leon will melt. Pob does, right before hanging up. Then Pob does it again when heâs begging Leon later, and Leon just crumbles. Pob is older but play-acting linguistically younger and Leon (the seme) finds this unbearably CUTE. He also takes it as linguistic submission and permission to take their relationship to the next level. Which it kind of is.Â
SibGene. They have an ongoing conversation about this in Lovely Writer. In general couples where the seme is younger than the uke and aggressive about it have linguistic negotiation as part of their relationship. I talk about it here, under age flipped dynamics.Â
BohnDuen in My Engineer are abnormal too. I call them linguistic brats.Â
Older GenerationsÂ
Anyone significantly older than you, like a generation or more above you, and in a casual environment like retail or food service is par/lung|arr AKA auntie/uncle by students (also your parent's friends, in laws and sept parents, friend's parents, and adult neighbors). See par used a lot in Lovely Writer.Â
The reverse of this (adult to child) is gender neutral loo.Â
Your faen's parents, if they approve the relationship, will likely invite the use of paa/maa. Formal register actually dictates khun maa/paa.Â
But the older you are in life, the more you should be using khun instead of any of these. You can see khun grappled with as part of the plot of Lovely Writer and Dayâs plot line in SOTUS S. Thereâs a rise in its use post 2020 as more Thai BLs move into the adult sphere and workplace environments (e.g. Manner of Death and Paint with Love).Â
Nong does not work the same a phi
Anyone younger than you technically is a nong but most older kids will actually use no honorific for those younger than them but in the same general age bracket/generation/schooling system. Nong carries with it cute or diminutive connotations. A little like the difference between "my little brother" or "my baby brother" versus "my younger brother." Nong is more babyish. Thus it's more likely to be used across a much wider age gap, or with very specific cute personality types, or romantic entanglements.Â
Nong in the third person is different again and almost entirely dependent on circumstances.Â
Also nong is often used as the 3rd person pronoun for animals and pets.Â
Unlike phi a boy nong will rarely use nong in place of the personal pronoun, he would use pom or his own name with his boyfriend. A girl will usually use chan. However, boys can/do also use chan as an informal I pronoun across age barriers, amongst intimates, and with female friends. Peach uses chan with YoonOh in Peach of Time.Â
There is also the diminutive nu/noo. Nu is specifically for younger cuteness, it means mouse - àž«àžàžč. (Nu has become hotly debated since KinnPosche and Cutie Pie so I talk about it here).Â
There's a point where Bhon calls Duen "nong Duen" in My Engineer and clearly absolutely relishes the teasing nature of that, because it's a bit of an insult to Duen's dignity.
In Bad Buddy, Korn uses nong to tease Pat about flirting with Pran. Itâs very very funny if you understand the implications of the term under the context of their friendship (equals and age mates) and Pat pretending to be jealous of Wai in order to cope with how much Wai is hurting his boyfriend.Â
In Enchante Akk and Theo have a constant teasing back and forth using Nong Theo in particular (they are the same age, so this is a kind of insult flirting).
Dean's friends tease both Pharm and Dean by flirting with Pharm and calling him "nong Pharm" in front of Dean. Partly this is because Pharm is so cute and shy. Just think if they tried that with Team? He'd beat the shit out of them. And Win would hold his jacket while Team punched.
So there's a bit of affection baby-talk to nong as well, once romance is involved. (Much like we use the affectionate term "baby" as English-speaking couples.)
Rao & Ter & Gher
Both genders/ages also have access to (and use) the I pronoun rao (which is ALSO the pronoun for we, sounds like lao) and is... soft? Cutsie? Gentle. Also a tiny bit stiff. It can be used when you donât want to use guu, or donât know (or want to know) the age relationship in play. I would say it has an old fashioned tone, but itâs experiencing a resurgence in modern Thai amongst youngsters right now. Yok drops from pom to rao in Not Me only AFTER he and Dan kiss, which is very sweet and gentle. Pete in Love By Chance is a chronic rao user.Â
Iâve talked about ter before = àčàžàž (ter/thoe). We are taught ter as she/her when learning Thai. That would be the formal and polite use but actually itâs rarely spoken that way. Itâs not frozen register, it is used as she/her, but not often.
When ter shows up in Thai BLs it tends to show up as you, which application used to be frozen register. AKA originally it entered parlance only in songs/poems in particular (so like thee/thou in English). As you itâs not gender specific. When Tine sings his song to Sarawat at the end of Still 2gether he uses ter for you. In normal conversation, these two characters use mueng. In formal situations they tend to use each others names. But in song, Tine uses ter. It has an old fashioned romantic connotation when used in this way and is often paired with the I pronoun rao as a result.
One time we hear ter=you discussed in BL is Heâs Coming to Me. Thun calls his mother ter over the phone, and Mes thinks Thun is talking to a lover. Imagine picking up the phone or running into someone and saying softly, âHay, you.â Itâs sweet. Thun uses ter with his mother instead of maa because, as his mother explains later, maa makes her feel old. This is a bit like giving oneâs parent a pet name and is showcasing how close Thun is to her.
Park & Lee (LTR) use ter as their primary love language in My Secret Love, they expose themselves as being a relationship by using ter in public.Â
When White is pretending to be Black with Blackâs girlfriend in Not Me he struggles with pronouns and then opts for rao/ter, which turns out to be a mistake and nearly gives him away. (She ends up assuming itâs Black going off her and wanting to break up, presumably this means they actually used guu/mueng.)
Hereâs a YT vid where a Thai language teacher talks about modern use of ter & rao.
There is also gher which is not polite, itâs not fully rude either, itâs certainly informal. Itâs generally used between friends when mueng would be too rude or too much of an invitation. Anda and Bank, who are friends, but not intimates (although Bank would like them to be) use rao/gher with each other in Love Stage! This one is also very common within the queer community and between gay men/women or women/women friends.Â
Nai & the MafiaÂ
So in 2022 Thai BLs seriously started moving setting outside of the school systems and thus added new pronouns (for us watchers) into the mix. KinnPorsche, Even Sun, and Unforgotten Night all use the pronoun nai (àžàžČàžą) for you between men. Like many honorifics & pronouns, it's derived from a minor title of nobility. In the 19th century it was declared the official courtesy title for adult males - regarded as a direct translation of "Mr".Â
It has several different uses today.Â
As a title, it only appears before the real given name (not surname), in official/formal contexts, e.g. when writing down one's name on an exam paper, job application, or government form. If used with a nickname, it implies a bit of irony (like a teacher calling out a misbehaving student).Â
As a pronoun, it's usually an informal second-person pronoun used with males of equal status. It's a decidedly non-rude word, so it'll be used among friends/classmates if they don't feel close enough to use gu/mueng (or if a person just doesn't use rude pronouns, like swear words there are people who donât feel comfortable ever saying guu/mueng).Â
Rao/nai as pronouns used to be the default mode of address on TV before gu/mueng became acceptable to broadcast in the 2010s.Â
When used by females, nai is pretty much equivalent to males using ter with females - so an old fashioned but intimate and sweet, loving.Â
On TV, the use of ter/nai is probably most often associated with straight dramas in the acquaintance phase of courting.Â
Nai also has the meaning "boss" (similarly to the combined form àčàžàčàžČàžàžČàžą (jao nai/chao nai). If it's being used as a pronoun in a more formal or deferential context (like organized crime), it is used in this sense.Â
Usage number 2 & 6 are the ones we see in Thai BL. All that said I understand as a tourist in Thailand, you will hear nai but not all that often. Itâs fine to use khun instead/back, but good to know to identify nai.Â
(I am indebted to my Thai linguistic spy, who is v secretive and shall remain nameless for this information. THANK YOU!!!!)Â
The lost Ai (Ee)
Ai'+ name was technically once supposed to be used between male age mates but it is usually dropped in BL and on the interview circuit. Seems to have become frozen in this form.Â
In BL it will be applied with a long drawn out tone when insult is required between close friends. Ae and Pond do it a lot in Love By Chance. In which case Ai'+name is a little like an affectionate "my asshole friend here." The opposite is also true, Ai can be softened and applied for affection.Â
Fiat uses AiâLeeooo with Leo all the time in Donât Say No. Itâs a kind of bratty affection coming from him. Leo, on the other hand, only uses AiâFiat when he is annoyed af with his boy.Â
Informality between same year/age mates (or from older to younger) can be better tracked through the use of no honorifics and the application of guu/mueng pronouns for I/you and the use of wa particle instead of krap/kha. These are all gender neutral. But you will rarely if ever hear these used on the promo circuit between actors. They are quite rude.
Khun
Once you're out and about in the workplace khun is pretty much required, unless you're invited by your older workplace mates to revert back to phi. This can be made immediately clear to you because that workmate will just use phi in conversation when referring to themself, and that means you have been invited to call them phi instead of khun - it's a gesture of friendship. You can see this in SOTUS S.
Hereâs Perth talking about the basics of all of this.Â
Impolite or Flexible Particles:
There are no hard and fast rules here except that a tourist should use kha/krap particles and khun honorifics.
Here's a quick guide to train your ear, these will come at the end of sentences.Â
Formal polite particles:
krap used by male identified individuals
... but kap! = curt slightly more informal
... but krrap rolling the ârâ = sarcasmÂ
kha/ka used female identified individuals
.... but very rarely a drawn out sarcastic kaaa is a bit tough/agro/bad, the hardness of the âkâ noise makes a differenceÂ
... sometimes softened to be more like ha, and often sarcastic (or getting a little queer)Â
si for imperatives and mandates (orders)
na to soften, question, and plead
Krap/kha can also be used alone as verbal acknowledgement agreement especially to an adult or someone older than you. However, when a boy uses solo krap with his boyfriend or someone younger than him or an age-mate itâs almost always sarcastic. Like âyessirâ or âsure, dude.â
Informal but still somewhat polite particles:
kha used by third gender identified individuals
la for mild entreaty
sa for forced encouragement
di for imperatives and mandates (orders)
Informal household intimate particles
ja used with very close friends/family and by the queer community, friendly and informal
kha used by a male identified person for certain VERY specific reasons
ha as used with lovers and close family members, intimate and informal
Rude particles, to be used ONLY with piers after an established relationship
gu/mueng for I/you pronouns (not particles, but it's important to know this as BL uses this all the time but travelers NEVER SHOULD)
wa for questionsÂ
THERE ARE A TON OF EXCEPTIONS.Â
Kha particle as used by a man. A hard kha may be used by (or occasionally with) members of the queer community by those who identify as male and would formally use krap. A soft kha may be used by a man talking to a much younger girl (Pete, who ALWAYS uses krap, uses kha with Ae's niece in Love By Chance because he is being very gentle/soft with her). A male player picking up women in a bar may also use kha. Â
Ja & ha particles. Queer and gay-identified performers and Thai third gender (kathoey) have more flexibility with their particles even in formal situations (if they want) and may use ja or ha instead of krap/kha. Ja seems slightly more associated with femininity and ha with neutral or masculinity. Most kathoey use kha (hard and soft) and ja particles. Most gay men (masculine identified) use krap except when talking to their queer community, then they will pick up kha, ja, or ha.
More on ha. Outside of queer ha is used amongst family members (and intimates) with loads of affection attached. (Phun uses ha with his adored younger sister in Love Sick.) Because it is a little cutsie it can also be used between lovers in a teasing capacity. Itâs the kind of thing we might get in a certain jocular LTR on screen. (Honestly, I could see MaxTul popping in a ha or two IRL just to fuck with us.) Bad Buddy trots out a ha when wrestling in the final episode. I have rarely heart actors use it on circuit.Â
ha slides into and gets confused easily (sometimes intentionally by the speaker) with the soft kha. This shizz is v complicated.Â
June in Love Area 2 is one of my all time favorite linguistic characters. June is agender INCLUDING linguistically (I use agender intentionally since we canât tell if the character is butch, FTM, gender fluid, or gender neutral). I legitimately have been told this was not possible in the Thai language. June uses the ha particle only, and sparingly, and has never gendered self or been gendered by others as part of the narrative. June is linguistically curt and a bit rude as a result, but the surrounding characters never seem very offended by this, even older generations. It is FASCINATING.
I also have a post on Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity and how touch moves between registers and into ha to flirt with Daisy.Â
There are, so far as I can gather, no polite but queer particles. So, in a way, queerness exists within low register in Thailand... which implies queerness only exists amongst peers & intimates. Thereâs a goddamn cultural anth + linguistâs PhD wrapped up in this one, so Iâm backing away slowly.Â
What Iâm talking about here has to do with registers. This all does actually. All about Thai registers here.Â
(source)
My kiddos and I had the privledge of being able to try out some Top Trumps cards via #tryazon #tryazonparty #toptrumps #educationalgames #learnplaywin #toptrumpsusa We had a BLAST! My students were super engaged and really enjoyed the opportunity to try out new things. For the safety and privacy of my kiddos I covered their faces. THANK YOU to @tryazon and @officialtoptrumps for the opportunity. https://www.instagram.com/p/Cje1UNLOi4p31FcmjLcZO0qDloR5B6it2jc5w00/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=
For those whom been asking to put the Camp Counselor Jason comics on Webtoons! Go Support it! It gonna take a bit of time for me to reformat and upload all the pages but iâll update bit by bit~
Hereâs the link! WebtoonÂ
You can also see them on Twitter and Instagram! Twitter Instagram
And see the comic pages earlier on my Patreon
Ksenia Palchikova on Instagram
Happy Black History Month!
*this is especially important: these days on Tumblr thereâs a wonderful atmosphere of being able to talk openly about your mental illness or your struggle. And thatâs great! But thereâs a difference between sharing in order to help yourself and other people and sharing just because you have no other coping mechanisms. As much as youâre able, try to work on developing a different outlet. People arenât qualified to be your therapist because theyâre nice to you a couple of times. Please remember that they have lives too, and their job is not to make you feel better or pity you, no matter how difficult your life is.Â
And last but not least:Â
ButâŠÂ
I really donât have a way to better this.Â
Your interests are your own. I canât advise anyone to change their interests to fit in with a certain group of people - thatâs stupid, and actually quite damaging to your sense of self.Â
Instead, I would recommend that, maybe if you feel like your topics of conversation are falling flat with this group of people, you move on to other, greener pastures. There are bound to be places where your ideas mesh better with an audience.Â
And of course - try to be considerate about what you say and how you say it.Â
Sometimes, what might seem like a harmless comment to you might be a very discomforting thought to another person. I recently had a conversation on a forum with a guy who was telling me that his headcanon was that Pearl (from SU) would soon get a male love interest who loved mechanics and weapons next, and that would be her best arc, because she would finally get a âhealthyâ love interest.Â
His intentions were good, but he was entirely unaware of how cringey this kind of thing was to a bunch of (probably queer) people, who have spent their entire lives being told that the only âgoodâ character development for them would be to get a âmale love interestâ. No one wanted to be the jerk to say âfuck off, we donât want that to happenâ but everyone was answering him in a flat way, trying to discourage the discussion further. Instead of picking up on the hint, he bulldozed on, thinking he was having a âlively conversationâ which was, in fact, in its late stages of death.Â
I know Iâll probably get a few messages to this saying: What about people on the Autistic Spectrum? Sometimes, people canât pick up social cues or âhintsâ. And if thatâs the case, itâs incredibly difficult to understand why youâre not having any luck communicating despite your best efforts.Â
I feel that on a person level, please believe me. I made this infograph for THAT VERY REASON. Because I WAS that awkward kid who didnât pick up on hints well. In fact, I still have trouble talking to people. If any of you have had the misfortune of being my conversational partner, youâll know that I tend to be overly blunt and come off as very unfriendly. Itâs something that I, myself, am working on currently in order to grow into a better person. Itâs a struggle in progress, but I am aiming towards the progress side, and I just wanted to help out others while I was at it.Â
This is a really good starting guide to the social skills everyone thinks you should have just picked up magically.
So, yes, this is exactly the advice I think autistic people would benefit from; it actually tells you concrete, actionable, things you could do. I wish someone had told me this stuff when I was a kid.
a lesson on nonbinary individuals and why we feel the way we do about numerous basic things, such as the mere fact of our existence and our pronouns.
At first I thought this was about bisexuality whoops
I thought it was abt asexuality đ
when youâre bi and enby đŸ
Some solidarity for bi/ace/nb
We ALL love purple
VIVA EL MORADO
Boyd: Why are Stiles and Derek sitting with their backs to each other?
Isaac: They had a fight.
Boyd: Then why are they holding hands?
Isaac: They get sad when they fight.
Tony: My father is a bitch
Peter: Isn't he dead?
Tony: Dying did not make him any less of a bitch
PSA for Switch owners
The latest 11.0 update means that Google Analytics is a thing on the switch and turned on. What that means is that Nintendo has a deal with Google to share with them your data for advertisement purposes.
To turn it off
go to the eShop
go to your profile where your funds and account info is
go down to the bottom of the page
there you will see âGoogle Analytics Preferencesâ
select the Change
select âDonât Shareâ
Please spread the word. Really shitty of Nintendo to just quietly start allowing Google to spy on users for advertising.
Admitting my star sign was a mistake.
âOh, so thatâs why you are they way you are. Youâre two fire signs ruled over by water!â
Pretty sure itâs just the ADHD.
A fun thing to do whenever someone asks you your sign is to lie about your birthday. It still means listening to them attempt to explain your entire personality badly for a few minutes, but then you can undercut them as soon as it gets too annoying.Â
So, for a while I was doing mailroom/account followup work for a nonprofit, and on my firt day there, one of the ladies, âDebbieâ asked me when my Birthday was. Assuming she was planning office Birthday parties, I told her.
The next day she came in with my ENTIRE star chart with personality tropes, life advice, predicitons for my future and so on. Now, I donât go in for Astrology but I can tell when someone is making a well-meaning gesture and I can say âThank youâ and shut up.
Especially because I told her the Wrong Birthday.
See, my birthday is in the middle of a cluster of a whole bunch of family birthdays and growing up I used to have to share my Birthday with my older cousins and while thatâs not really a big deal (even fun if youâre older) it kinda sucks when youâre five and none of your cousins share your interests.
So mom made a deal with me: Weâd celebrate my âUn-Birthdayâ in January, when nobody else in the family has a birthday or anything else, and the ârealâ birthday would be my Cousinâs. I got my own birthday and they got a second party and it was fun.
As I got older, I just started using my Un-Birthday for everything except paperwork, becuase January is boring and bereft of holidays except the one thatâs really part of Xmas these days. On paperwork, I put my real one, but Iâve been celebrating my birthday in the wrong month for over 25 years now, and didnât think about it when she asked, and told her my Un-Birthday.
And for a few weeks everything was fine.
But Debbie had a RIVAL.
Another woman in the office âSharonâ was also big into Astrology and was convinced Debbie was Doing It Wrong, so when she was going over payroll, she saw my Legal Birthday, realized Debbie had filled out the chart wrong, and then proceded to drag Debbie on the company facebook group, and a bunch of astrology groups they were both in.
I found out when I came in three days later from a long weekend and Debbie burst into tears and sobbed âHOW COULD YOU LIE TO MEEEEEE???â
After an extremely garbled recounting by our coworkers, a talk with my manager about âHey yeah I donât think itâs Legal for Sharon to take my name and date of birth from Payroll and put it all over facebook?â, the manager had a talk about âI know you are all over 50 but this is NOT WHAT THE COMPANY FACEBOOK IS FORâ, Sharon was âremoved from the premesisâ and I finally got to sit down with Debbie.
I explained the slip-up and how I sort of have two birthdays and think of the January Birthday is my âRealâ one.
Debie looked up from where sheâd been sobbing into her tissue all morning, realization dawning on her less like the illumination of the sun and more like a baby sea turtle headed in the wrong direction because of light Pollution.
âOh!â She said âYouâre TRANS-ZODIAC! You might have been born as an Aries, but youâre really a Capricorn!â
As someone whoâs been hit by a minivan and gotten a minor skull fracture from it, Iâm pretty sure hearing that sentence gave me more brain damage.
âSure Debbie.â
You know, I had no idea where this ride was going to take us, but of all the outcomes I expected, that was not it.
What, and I cannot stress this enough, the fuck.
Debbie was a kind woman with room in her heart for all the people of the world and the critical thinking skills of a Sea Cucumber.
You messing up the whip" đ
BRUCE IâM WEAK
Camilla ate the whole damn bag
lmao this nigga is the animal whisperer
I think he got a show on the Animal Planet now like for real he got the touch
she hungry as hell
đ I love this so much
THATS DOPE AS HELL!!! Whatâs the name of the show!