Wow, Miraculous is really taking its time to end its current hiatus. I wonder if the plan is to wait until the remaining episodes are finished? Not to mention how far behind other countries are (including France for some reason)
Marinette's nightmare in Mister Agreste & her fear of Adrien turning against her
Adrien: What? My father was Monarch?! How could you hide this from me, Marinette?? YOU LIED TO ME! You and I are OVER!
You know what? Screw it, you all can pry this moment off of my cold dead hands.
Marinette knows.
Deep down, Marinette KNOWS that Adrien is Chat Noir.
Why else would, in her NIGHTMARE, the akuma go into Adrien's miraculous and not any other object? Especially his amok rings? If Marinette doesnt deep down know that Adrien is Chat Noir then why would she focus on the "irrelevant" ring in her deepest fear of him getting akumatized?
And yes, I know, that makes so many things about her treatment of him in both identities so much worse, but I dont care. This single-handedly restores actual faith in me in Marinette's motivations for doing all this to the world and especially Adrien and Chat Noir who are both once again the biggest victims of her lies and secrets.
Yes, it's ugly. The can of worms this opens up is so so nasty and ugly, but I dont care. This is at least a root of her fear that matches the intensity of her main motivation of self-preservation.
It's ugly as all sin, but at least I can work with this.
Cause no, it is not a sympathetic motivation for her causing THIS much damage at this point that she fears that her CIVILIAN boyfriend raises his voice for once, breaks up with her, and gets akumatized.
When Adrien is just a civilian in her eyes, that conflict situation is so manageable it's actually laughable. Even if her nightmare were to come true, all it would take is deakumatizing him with her army of help, and getting everyone else in the know to be by her side to have the one damn uncomfortable conversation with him and that's it.
All she has to say is "there is a new Butterfly and I was scared of them going after YOU in more than akumatization if the whole truth were to come out"
That's still a mess, but one can reason with that when Adrien is nothing but a civilian.
But when Adrien is Chat Noir? That's a completely different level of deception and betrayal that's started with s4 and not s6. And no one can help her with facing that heat because that's just between Maribug and Adrichat.
Adrien the civilian may temporarily feel betrayed by her and lash out in anger, but she has all the resources to make that manageable and still get their happy ending, even if it takes more than 5 minutes for him to be ready for it (the horror, I know. Marinette may not get her happily ever after at 15, but 16. How could she possibly survive? 😒)
But for ADRICHAT? At this point, he has every right to just be done with this girl. Even if he comes around to not hating her and even fully understanding her side of this, he has every right to fall out of romantic love with her for good and/ or not wanting to be her partner/ "partner" anymore.
There are more than just the two options of "Adrien will hate her for all eternity and want to ruin her life" and "Adrien wants to marry and worship her and have children with her".
There are 5 million options in between that are still a happy ending, Marinette just isn't going to get Adrichat the way people think she's entitled to cause "whats the point of heroism if the hero doesn't get 'the girl'"
And while, yes, Marinette too apparently thinks there are just two outcomes for this (him hating her and never wanting to see her ever again & him being her perfect Prince Charming husband who adores her and always puts her first), the fear of knowing that he has every right to LEAVE after seasons and seasons of build up is something I can indeed work with.
It makes it so that her nightmare ending with him getting akumatized and yelling "You and me are OVER!" isn't just her fearing that she will have to face the temporary ugly aftermath of Adrien daring to have emotions and personhood that isn't just centered around her comfort and her not wanting to experience that,
But instead its him yelling "You and me are OVER!" because it could very easily actually be the end of his love and upmost affection for her. Cause thats just a realistic outcome for all this. That ROMANTIC LOVE isn't on the table anymore and thats it.
You know, with Yaksi Gozen having established that Cerise successfully deceived Tomoe into thinking she's her daughter (or especially in the case of that actually being true, which I highly doubt, but who knows at this point)
Cerise SHOULD now theoretically have a certain privilege that the show SHOULD acknowledge or even play into if we still in any way care about character consistency:
With Cerise being Tomoe's daughter, Gabriel's agreement that Adrien is to be the perfect husband for Tomoe's child should now also apply to CERISE. Sure, it was said to be Kagami, but in the end of the day, thats a technicality that can easily be adjusted.
And i do wonder if thats why Tomoe went off on Adrien like that as akuma, that she wont trust him because hes an Agreste? Because the option of him ending up with one of her daughters is still on the table and therefore she would need to trust Adrien in alot of ways?
Cause Cerise/ Lila certainly didn't make it a secret back when she and Tomoe met (and especially towards Gabriel and Nathalie) that she's interested in Adrien. So even if right now Tomoe wouldn't let Cerise have her way like that, she knows that it is a possibility and Cerise is aware of that.
And with Adrien being Gabriel/ Hawkmoth's son and the one who owns the Gabriel company, that looks like something both Cerise AND Tomoe would see use in for the future of their villainy.
Ml theory: Chrysalis gaining access to the Council because of El Toro del Piedra
So, now after 2 episodes that pretty much confirmed that Aglaé is Cerise, let me finally make my speculation post of how we could be genuinely screwed after the ending of "El Toro del Piedra"
This regards both Marinette and Nathalie, but to 90% Nathalie (this isnt salt, I promise). So let me start with her:
As others have already pointed out, Nathalie is back to her old design when she's talking to the Council and her father. Her hair is tied up again and she's all buttoned up, too, to symbolize their hold on her and that we've never known Nathalie without being affected by her life's circumstances:
But that's not all.
The shadows on her face clearly resemble an akumatization mask of the Butterfly AND others have already pointed out, too, that Nathalie is actually wearing a brooch:
And with Gabriel's letter in the episode having brought up the topic that he wanted Adrien to now continue his mission (as Butterfly?), it seems like the ending is implying that Nathalie is now pretending like SHE is the new Butterfly.
Presumably to shield Adrien from whatever consequences he would be stuck with if the Council found out that the Agreste's have now lost both Miraculouses that were in their possession (I'm also gonna assume that Nathalie found out about those consequences after the London special. If not, I'm gonna rip into her)
Meaning, the Council may not actually know that the Butterfly is gone. And for now, I'm willing to give Nathalie the benefit of the doubt that keeping it that way is mainly done to protect Adrien. That feels like a plot line the show would do.
Cause the scene doesn't directly bring up the whereabouts of the Butterfly. Suspiciously so, in my opinion.
Sure, Tomoe says that she wants to continue Gabriel's mission with Nathalie by her side and Tomoe is asked if she already knows how to succeed, to which she replies, no, but that they will think of something because she never fails.
But there are suspicious undertones in this scene the longer it goes on:
The first thing we see is a council member (Royal Scepter and leader, presumably) asking why Ladybug lied to the world about Gabriel having defeated Monarque when they all know that GABRIEL was Monarque. Which Nathalie is asked about, but lies about not knowing anything and then says that maybe TOMOE knows more:
Tomoe denies having an explanation, too, but then quickly claims that non of that matters anyway:
Which is suspicious as hell because this ab-so-lu-tely matters! Especially when she then asks to take over Gabriel's mission with Nathalie by her side.
And then in the end, we get the confirmation after everyone else left that the Corn symbol is Nathalie's father. And he, only when they are alone, directly tells her that she is supposed to give the Miraculous of Ladybug and Chat Noir to HIM. Or rather, that's imo the meaning of what he means right here when he directly addresses her about it. But that's the important detail, my point is, he's only this direct when they are ALONE:
And only THEN do we get the face shot of Nathalie where she has the akuma mask shadows on her face and her brooch is visible:
In my opinion, this very much opens the possibility that at least Nathalie's FATHER thinks that she's the new Butterfly.
But again, the fact that the BUTTERFLY MIRACULOUS is not being addressed here at all, in a scene where Nathalie is wearing a purple brooch, simply feels like that this topic was already covered. And that Nathalie is claiming to be the new Butterfly simply because she was the next logical person, for now, after Gabriel's death and before the Council made further decisions.
Decisions like Nathalie working under Tomoe now, who's saying they will come up with a new plan that won't fail like Gabriel's.
Literally all of this can be happening now with Nathalie already being the new Butterfly. She just took on the mantel and tries it further in Gabriel's old style, but will from now on operate and act under Tomoe who will adjust and change the approach to get the Miraculous of Ladybug and Chat Noir.
The Butterfly doesn't necessarily NEED to be the one in charge, they can be working for someone else.
There is nothing unrealistic about this concept. In fact, it would actually highlight how much Nathalie is viewed as used all her life as an agenciless tool. Nobody blinked with an eye that she was Mayura, died due to it, and was saved by Gabriel's wish (which ngl, the council must be PISSED about. Gabriel reached his goal but didn't wish for what they agreed on. This may very well be part of what Nathalie is trying to shield Adrien from. The consequences of Gabriel having pretty much betrayed the Council with how he used his wish)
So why would anybody question why Nathalie, the agenciless shadow, immediately filled in the role of the Butterfly after Gabriel's death? The Council is still after the Wish, so the mission isn't done yet. Gabriel himself didn't matter, the mission goes on. And so for them the mission went on. To a certain degree, it doesn't matter to these people who the Butterfly is, as long as the Council is in control.
I know there is still a lot to talk about here, but for now, let's move on. Cause the last point is VERY important.
Cause, obviously, Nathalie pretending to be the new Butterfly can only go well for so long and is highly dependent on LUCK right now. Cause the second the actual Butterfly goes public - no doubt in the s6 finale - Nathalie's gig is up and hell will break loose.
UNLESS Nathalie pulls a desperation move and has to try and find the Butterfly on her own (which was set up in season 5, but there she not only didn't do much, she also failed:
Therefore it was much more narrative set up for when she does it for real, than anything else) and either try and get the Butterfly back herself or she has to cooperate with the Butterfly to ensure that Cerise will go along with Nathalie's lie in front of the Council.
Cause in that case, all Nathalie and Chrysalis (and Tomoe) have to say is that they didn't think Nathalie's an effective enough Butterfly, so they found themselves a perfect candidate: Chrysalis. And mind you, we all know that Cerise is gonna nail that lie. This is not gonna be an issue.
But I know what you are asking: Why EXACTLY would Cerise do that?
Well, first of all: to weasel herself into direct contact with the Council that rules the civilian Government, has Miraculous resources, and more. I highly doubt she would say "No" to that.
And second of all: to blackmail the hell out of Nathalie. And remember, Cerise was present in the season 5 finale AND in "Revelator" she already got an insane amount of DIRT on the Agreste's:
And not just that. With Aglaé pretty much being as good as confirmed to be Cerise, lets remember this line from "Daddycop":
That sets up Aglaé to at one point joining a girls squad sleepover at Marinette's house.
And now we get to Marinette part of this mess in "El Toro del Piedra":
Cause we have to assume that Marinette never gave Gabriel's letter for Adrien back. That's at this point, unfortunately, the most realistic thing for her character to have done.
Sure, Nathalie not immediately asking for it back is VERY bad cause Marinette has no business having this letter and putting it who knows where
But knowing this show's writing, they may just have Nathalie ask Marinette - in whatever episode this will be relevant in - to give back the letter and since Marinette doesn't want Adrien to find out, she could easily be written to lie that she already destroyed it to be sure nothing can happen to its impossibly important information, but she herself actually doesnt want it destroyed yet bc she's holding out hope that she may be able to stop lying one day. So she keeps it hidden in her room.
(Look, I hate it too, but let's not pretend like this isn't likely to happen)
The episode may even just say that Marinette has already long ago claimed this off-screen, but i think Nathalie asking for it is the most likely way to set that episode's letter plot off and to remind the audience of its importance.
Well, and you can see where I'm going with this.
If Aglaé truly is Cerise and eventually ends up joining a sleepover in Marinette's room, you can bet your ass that she's gonna find this letter.
And if that happens, Cerise can blackmail the hell out of anybody, but especially Nathalie.
Seriously, thanks to "El Toro del Piedra" there is now such a concerningly straight path for Cerise to blackmail Nathalie and use her desperation of wanting to shield and protect Adrien from the consequences of his family's actions and history, to weasel herself directly into an insane position of power and influence.
And I couldn't with an honest heart claim that this isn't something the show would do. Protecting Adrien is the show's go-to excuse to have all kinds of characters do awful things, even when it endangers him directly and leaves him off as the worst treated character by the rest of the cast. Not to mention, it would still make Adrien the one who needs to be saved without giving him much agency in the plot, which is something the show loves to do.
Plus, I don't think the show is NOT gonna bring it up in a major way that Marinette and Cerise used to fight over Adrien, now that Cerise can use Marinette's lie against her to break them up and shatter Adrien's trust in Maribug and most of the rest of his already small support system.
Then we have the parallel of this giving off similar vibes to how Lila initially weaseled herself into Gabriel's company and into Adrien's circle.
And it would be a very smart way to bring Tomoe into this. Cause ngl, I'm 1000% sure Tomoe knows a lot more than we assume right now. She's just smart and holds her cards close to her chest to play it cleverly instead of always revealing it at the first opportunity. And Chrysalis and Tomoe teaming up with Nathalie stuck in between just sounds right.
Alright, when Marinette checks her phone, we see she have arrived a bit past 11:15 pm at her home. She listens to Adrien's voice text, which hopes she will get better. She responds and leaves him a message before she enters her home where she is welcomed by her dad who asked her how the party went. In this one scene, we hear two versions : Marinette was bedridden and resting (believed by Adrien and friends) and Marinette went to the party (believed by her parents). Only Alya and Alix know the truth of where Marinette was.
Funny enough, we never saw Marinette talk to her parents before leaving her room. In the episode, she gives herself the idea to replace Bunnyx, calls Alya to organize the party and afterwards transforms to call Bunnyx and enters the Burrow where she becomes Bunnybug. Although, it is also possible it just happened off-screen. She could have texted her parents or leave them a note why she isn't at home like she did with Alya to provide an excuse for her absence, so I wouldn't call it a continuity error just yet.
Nonetheless, two different alibis put into the same scene which don't match is bound to no good. Especially if someone asks questions later. And we know there is one character who has grown suspicious...
Anyway, after the post-card credit, we again hear the exchange from Marinette and her dad, but this time the camera is set in her room, to see Marinette when she enters it. In the shot, she is fully dressed, but in the very next shot, she is in her pyjamas. So timeskip.
Nothing unusual. It's a common cinema trick to accelerate the rythm in one scene. However, it isn't the only timeskip inside that one scene.
As Marinette is about to check her phone, we see that her clock now says 11:35 pm. However, our girl knows her day isn't exactly over yet.
Note that this one bit is one continuous shot. Or is it?
As Marinette receives a new notification and checks her phone, we see that the clock now shows 11:40pm.
So there is a five minutes gap where Marinette is absent from her room during the post-card scene. The sequence-shot makes it so it appears continuous, that it was just a mere few seconds between the two portals, but in reality, the shot of the empty bed hides a jumpcut, a time ellipse.
So this mundane post-credit scene may not be so mundane after all.
To this day, I still wonder when the last chronological occurrence was of Chat Noir kissing Ladybug's hand. That used to happen so often during s1-s3. But I'm 99% sure that it immediately died out with season 4. So the last time had to have been in season 3.
I wonder if Nathalie saying that telling Adrien the truth will risk him figuring that she was Monarque's accomplice was supposed to about Nathalie having realised by now that Adrien knowing she was Mayura would lead to him very understanding that the fatal illness Nathalie shared with his dead mother Emilie wouldn't have been a coincidence. As well as Felix' dead father's death.
That she realised by now that telling Adrien the truth about Gabriel will put him on the path of connecting the dots between everything else he witnessed, which could risk having to explain the Sentibeings and Peacock Miraculous situation and the last thing he needs right now is blaming himself for the death of his mother which then set in motion the spiralling and death of his father. As well as Nathalie's almost death.
Not that I agree that all of this should absolutely be kept from him. I just wonder if Nathalie's line of dialogue here was supposed to hint at her having come to that realisation, but with Miraculous' frustratingly drawn out pacing, they didn't have her say most of it, to save it for a different episode.
IMO Nathalie is now scared. Especially after Werepapas where Adrien has voiced that he wanted to live with her. Not as his tutor but as his surrogate mother.
Adrien made that choice for himself. He voiced it. He wanted her in his life. When he never had much to say before. No one forced him. He wasn't complying to someone else's wish.
It was his own decision.
Remember, after his father's death, Adrien didn't know what to do with himself. Too much decisions. No schedule. Nathalie is rooting for Adrien to make his own choices - to be his own person - now that he is free from his father.
Adrien: My pancakes aren't very good, are they?
Nathalie: Not at all; I think they're delicious.
Adrien: My father's were better. They were perfect.
Nathalie: Mmm, I disagree. Your father's lacked sweetness. Honestly, I like yours better.
Adrien: What's my schedule for today?
Nathalie: As I've already said, you no longer need one. The only person who decides what you have to do now is you.
Adrien: But then, what should I do?
Nathalie: Well, whatever you want.
Adrien: Oh, alright then. I'll decide. I guess.
Back then, during the London Special, when Nathalie was in favor of telling the truth, it didn't matter or Nathalie didn't want to care. "I am not his mother", she said back then. She wanted an out.
But now she is his mother. Now, she is too emotionally involved and engaged to retract herself. To her point of view, she cannot opt out. For her, too much has changed in her life thanks / because of the Lie™. And unlike Marinette who is showing guilt and second-guessing her decision, Nathalie is pretty used to live with lies and secrets (her own as well of those of others) and deal with their consequences. For her, it's another Monday. But I also don't think Nathalie is ready to lose the one person that has given her a purpose to keep going. Especially now that they are both emotionally attached to one another.
Nathalie feels like a character who has an history of losing the things she loves. Maybe even before she even had met Gabriel and Émilie. That probably explains why she is so distant with people at first : her previous attachments only lead herself to get hurt.
And now, Nathalie has this lost teenage boy she has known all her of life who depends and relies on her. She cannot let him down now. But more importantly : she doesn't want herself to get hurt because she again develop a feeling of attachment towards another person.
The Lie™ had its consequences and it is one of them. For the better and for the worse.
I think this is part of what's changed her tune. But I think another part is fearing that the secret of what really happened will get out further if Marinette tells Adrien, and that it might get back to the secret council. They would not be happy if they found out Nathalie lied to them, and it might endanger Marinette and Adrien.
Yeah, I have given thoughts about the Council. Here's the thing. The Council doesn't mind that Ladybug has lied about Gabriel Agreste. However, what they are confused about is why the superhero lied in the first place.
We know Nathalie is protecting Ladybug's secret identity and has not given that information to the Council. She has told them she was unconscious during the last battle between Monarch and Ladybug and therefore she doesn't know what happened (an half-truth). So Nathalie's alibi to the Council technically wouldn't be compromised if Ladybug told Adrien the truth.
But if the Council discovers why Ladybug has lied in the first place, if they discover it has to do with Adrien, I think it puts more a target on Adrien and/or Maribug than on Nathalie.
If Ladybug's reasons are discovered, she is endangering not only herself, but Adrien as well.
And Nathalie needs to be by Adrien's side and have him still trust her if the Council has shown or show interest in him. Which is not possible if Adrien learns about Nathalie's past.
Again, all seems to revolve around Adrien over Nathalie's own safety.
Yeah, true. Like, if Nathalie wanted to make sure Adrien didn't find out the truth about her involvement with Monarch solely for her own sake, that'd be really shitty. But we have enough info to at least reasonably suspect that she might need to stick close to Adrien for his and Marinette's own safety.
If any French Miraculous fan is seeing this, can you tell me, please, if this weird line about Cosmobug needing 1h14m to Brazil is in the original script, too?
Look, it perfectly valid to have a serious bone to pick with Nathalie in all of this, but please actually look at what happens on screen.
Nathalie isn't pushing back on Marinette so hard in "Mister Agreste" because she's simply against telling Adrien the truth here, its because Marinette literally ran up to her, yelling into the open door (where Adrien can easily hear them) that she cant take it anymore so they HAVE to tell Adrien the truth.
Marinette at no point in this episode conveys to Nathalie that she wants to tell Adrien the truth FOR ADRIEN'S SAKE, but simply for HERSELF. That's all she's saying. Any idea she brings up to tell him is said after:
M: I cant take it anymore! We have to tell Adrien the truth!
N: Have you lost your mind??
Nathalie even looked worried when Marinette stopped her in the door in a state of panic. It's just that Nathalie expected an actual emergency, and not just Marinette wanting to go back on the life-changing decisions she talked Nathalie into just cause Marinette now changed her mind again once SHE had to live with it, too. That's why Nathalie is rougher with her and tells her to "Grin and bear it. We decided on a truth, it's too late to go back".
Because it literally just sounds like Marinette is prioritizing her troubled feelings over Adrien right now, not thinking of the big picture or any consequences as long as Marinette gets to clear her guilty conscience.
And that, Nathalie -as Adrien's parent - absolutely has a right to push back on. If this moment had been Marinette genuinely trying to tell Nathalie that she thinks that Adrien is being harmed by these lies and secrets and Nathalie still reacted like this, then 100% put the blame on Nathalie.
But that requires for Marinette to actually DO THAT, you know? And Marinette panicking about her own guilty feelings and then saying they have to tell Adrien is NOT doing that.
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