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@martonnadj
I think the Kingdom relies too much on fans having watched Evangelion, and that's a bad thing for a show aimed at 10 year olds.
Sure, I watched Evangelion when I was 11 because I had an internet connection and too much free time, but Miraculous shouldn't be relying on knowledge of a different show to understand their new big bad, especially when that show has very different themes to Miraculous. The only theme shared with Evangelion is the theme of corruptive wealth. That's really it. The shows are otherwise pretty different in terms of their core narrative.
Obviously we're going to be getting more about the Kingdom as the show goes on, but as of season 6 all we have is that they're a secret organization that Gabriel and Emilie were part of, that Tomoe is part of, and that Nathalie's father is a member of. Their goal is to collect the black cat and ladybug miraculous and... that's it. That's really the extent of what we have.
Those of us who have watched Evangelion know that Seele believed that humans were a false successor and had a plan to destroy the angels and unite humanity as one. From this, we can guess that The Kingdom sees Kwamis either as the gods or as the angels.
The issue is that most of miraculous's target audience will not have watched Evangelion. I highly doubt the average 7 year old is on tumblr to learn the inspiration from the kingdom, and therefore won't be googling it. Its up to Miraculous to make it clear to their child audience at least some of the Kingdom's motives beyond "retrieve the Miraculous of ladybug and chat noir." That motive is no different from Lila, so its not enough to stick in people's minds.
I don't think "SEELE but for kids" is a difficult plot to pull off, I just don't know if Miraculous is doing what it needs to pull it off, including in terms of show structure. A show can be episodic and have long arcs, Evangelion itself could be episodic at times in terms of how many episodes follow the structure of "have a scene at NERV, have a scene at school, mecha fight, lore reveal, end episode". Miraculous's episodic nature doesn't have to be a constraint, but thus far it has. Every episode needs to follow the structure of "Marinette has a personal problem, update on Lila's whereabouts, someone Marinette knows gets Akumatized, Marinette learns a lesson from the Akumatization, end of episode." The episodes with the Kingdom feel as if the Kingdom is shoehorned in because the way Miraculous's episodes are structured leaves little room for it. This could be fixed by either having the lesson be taught by other characters than Marinette in some episodes, dedicating more time to side characters who are related to the Kingdom, or by cutting some of Lila's scheming moments. Lila is implied to have some connection to the Kingdom through Tomoe, so in theory the Kingdom and Lila moments could be rolled into one.
I have no issue with Kingdom lore being revealed slowly over multiple seasons, especially since TA wants 14, but I think what we have been drip fed isn't enough. A bunch of teenage and adult fans having a vague idea of what your intended plot might be due to knowledge of a different show isn't good enough when your show is aimed at children. Evangelion, when it finally got a manga, was published in a Shonen magazine. Shonen is aimed at pre-teen to teenage boys. The original show had a TV-14 rating, meaning its intended age range was, again, teenagers. Miraculous's intended age range is 6-10. The vast majority of its viewers are not going to have the background necessary to understand what they're seeing during the Kingdom scenes.
It is possible that the Kingdom arc is intended for miraculous's older audience, which is great! I love when shows integrate more mature themes. It makes sense that a children's show would have something that the parents of the kids watching can get invested in. The problem still remains that the kids watching have to understand what is going on.
I do think all my issues with the Kingdom will be cleared up in season 7, but as of season 6 it acts purely as something for the teens and adults in the audience to point to and go "i know the show this is referencing," and that isn't great. Most would agree that Evangelion is a great anime, but miraculous doesn't have the world building to just adopt another show's gimmick out of no where.
The closest we have come to previously establishing a connection between all the rich people in this show is that all the rich kids are sentibeing. I guess the connection between the Tsurugis and the Agreste empire also can count, but that's one brand alliance. Chloe and Adrien's childhood friendship could count, but Noe is the member of the Kingdom, not Andre. I just struggle to see a set up for the Kingdom.
It would be interesting if the lack of set up is explained by the Kingdom only existing in the new universe. That would utilize the wish's reset of everything in a satisfying way by introducing a new Big Bad that previously hadn't existed. If that is the direction they go, that still requires set up other than "look at this scene which is paying obvious homage to a much better different show"
your birthday month, your mini bird wearing a hat!
your birthday month, your mini bird wearing a hat!
Uhhhhhh how is it misogyny not to like Marinette... But it's okay when you do it to some white kid... actually they do it to everyone not named Marinette,Zoe,Sabrina,Andre or Felix soooooo someone please answer
"Her akumatisation, motivated by her fear of adrien dumping her, in which she uses extremely posessive language and literally calls him 'her' adrien, has no relation to Marinette's desire to own him"... Are you fucking sure that these are "totally unrelated"?
That’s It.
I’m tired of seeing everyone repeat the same four points: “1) Nani gives Lilo to the state! 2) Hawaii has a better marine biology program than San Fransisco! 3) Jumba doesn’t get redeemed! 4) Pleakley’s not wearing a dress!”
Those are not the only things that were bad about this remake. You could easily tell it was going to be all that and more beforehand, but most people’s reaction to the trailer was “it’s surprisingly good!” and now they’re acting all surprised. If you didn’t see this coming, enough to purchase a ticket, you’re part of the problem and you don’t get the original movie any more than the people who made this remake did.
So I’m done being quiet, this is the Lilo & Stitch 2025 Takedown Post.
And as usual the only good thing about an attempted-remake is that it gives people a reason to think about what made the original so good.
Let’s go in order. But just scroll down to the Heading you Care About if you don’t want to read all this.
1. Cobra Bubbles
In this movie, Cobra Bubbles is a secret agent hunting for aliens and they have a new character take his place as the state social worker.
The Problem They Were Trying to Solve With this Change: “We shouldn’t have a black man or a government worker feel like an insensitive antagonist to Lilo’s family.”
That’s a stupid surface-level one-dimensional misread of the character from the original…and it wouldn’t have been hard, at all, for a child to explain to the 2025 filmmakers that Cobra is not an insensitive antagonist in the original.
Cobra Bubbles is not insensitive and he is not in any way portrayed as a bad guy in the original. Nani sees him that way, Nani sees him as antagonistic, because he’s the representation of Lilo being taken away.
But Nani is wrong about him and learns that she is wrong about him by the end of the movie.
Can we please make a list?
Cobra’s first interaction with the caretaker of the child he was being sent to protect was that she ran out into the road, yelled at a complete stranger, and dented his car.
Then he found her locked out of the home and threatening the child inside with a hammer in her hand.
Then he found out the stove was on while she was out, and she’d left a 7 year-old alone.
The 7 year-old made comments about being disciplined with bricks and a pillow case.
The 7 year-old looks like she might be more than a little emotionally unbalanced because she’s figuring out how to put voodoo spells on her friends to punish them.
He still gave that pair of sisters three days to straighten the ship. When in actuality, in 2002, under HRS §587-73, (don’t play with me) the social worker would’ve been well within his rights to remove the child from the home right then. But instead he gives her three days to fix it. THEN
The 18 year-old loses her job.
The family gets a “dog” who he is implied to know is an alien, right off the bat.
The alien is violent and wreaks havoc across town.
The 7 year-old almost drowns while they surf instead of find a job.
He lets the child and caretaker have one more night together to say goodbye, but when he’s on the way to get her he gets a call that she’s being attacked by aliens, hears a chainsaw, and finds the house on fire.
Do you understand what I’m saying.
Cobra Bubbles had NO BUSINESS being as BIG A SOFTIE AS HE WAS for all of the original movie. He was not only well within his legal rights to take Lilo away from Nani immediately, but he was actually required by law, it was his DUTY, to remove her immediately. But he didn’t do that. Why?
Now listen to me very carefully.
Lilo and Stitch is a movie about how “Family chooses to love and commit to one another selflessly, no matter what the other person can do for them or how hard they make it.” The fancy way they say it is just “Ohana means family: family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.”
Did you catch that? “No matter how hard they make it.”
Cobra Bubbles was a CIA agent before this. A CIA agent who saved the planet, by doing what? Convincing an alien race to leave them alone. Oh, he didn’t fight them off? No. How? He “convinced” them? He talked it out? Sounds like a pretty compassionate guy, for all his tough exterior. How did he do that?
He could’ve picked any animal that’s actually endangered. The filmmakers chose to make him the guy who convinced aliens to value mosquitos.
MOSQUITOS. Creatures that give nothing, only take. Ugly little bloodsucking monsters. That’s the creature he convinced them to care about enough to save the planet.
NOW do you have any trouble understanding why this is the specific social worker who would give an alien-infested dumpster fire of a dangerous home a chance when two sisters are about to be torn apart?
Do you see that Cobra is just another example of the grace that the movie is always talking about? The love that transforms someone from bad to good simply because it refuses to give up even when it gets nothing out of it? I’m repeating myself because I want you to see why he was a well-done character who NEEDED NO CHANGE.
Cobra Bubbles’ character is not an insensitive monster who doesn’t care who his actions hurt as long as he gets the job done. But you know who that does sound like?
2. Gantu
Gantu is not in the remake at all.
The Problem They Were Trying to Solve With This Change: “It’s going to cost us upwards of 1.5 millions of dollars to design, sculpt, rig, animate, and render a character this big in addition to finding a suitable voice actor to play the part.”
This is a really dumb choice for several reasons. A. Without Gantu, there is no “stakes-raiser” to Lilo and Nani’s story. The movie has no climax without him. For the first and second acts of the movie, it’s about a grieving pair of girls trying to prove themselves to a social worker while the story-equivalent of Beethoven the Destructive St. Bernard wacky Jumba & Pleakley antics get in their way. But when a 40-foot tall alien stomps into their lives and abducts Lilo & Stitch in a spaceship that careens around the island during an explosive sky-chase scene, now you have a high-octane, somebody-could-die climax.
B. Without Gantu, Stitch looks weaker. The climax gave Stitch a reason to come out of the wackadoo puppy he’s been posing as and suddenly remind everybody that he’s a lethal weapon who can survive thousand-foot drops, lava, and astronomic explosions—and a giant alien’s Thanos-dwarfing fist. Take him out and who do we have as a match for Stitch to go up against, even for a moment, and prove how much he’s changed to be willing to risk his freedom and fight?
C. Without Gantu you have no villain to reflect that STITCH is no longer a villain. (So they substituted Jumba.)
But the reason this character is really worth millions is, again, the theme.
I told you Cobra Bubbles was a character who did not put “duty” or even “convenience” or “position” over the real lives of Lilo and Nani. He saw that there was love there, and in his own way, he gave it a chance. And even when he chose to take Lilo away, he did it carefully; he gave them time to say goodbye.
GANTU IS THE OPPOSITE OF COBRA BUBBLES.
Gantu is the insensitive, uncaring, unyielding Captain whose commitment to duty turns into rage and cruelty. Not Cobra.
Nani thinks Cobra is walking in a threatening to tear apart their family in a display of government judgement. But that’s what Gantu literally does.
His first reaction to Stitch is to call for his destruction. Without even waiting to see if “it can be reasoned with” like the Grand Councilwoman suggests. He’s merciless. He mocks Stitch when Stitch is captive. And he knows that he caught Lilo, a human, along with him. He doesn’t care. He even suggests that Stitch eat her as a snack.
There are only two other characters who laugh at others’ misfortune in the movie. One is Stitch, the original villain. Then love changes him. The other is Jumba, who made Stitch. Then love changes him. But Gantu never gets changed. He’s only concerned with his job, and with personally annihilating the flaws he sees in Stitch.
Gantu is unyielding, ungracious, and cruel. And he’s big and powerful enough to be a test for Stitch to prove he’s changed. For the benefits he brings to the story, he’s worth 1.5 million and more. But they cut him anyway.
3. Jumba
In the new movie, Jumba is a villain through-and-through with designs on overthrowing the Galactic Council using Stitch, and instead of being redeemed, he’s sentenced to prison.
The Problem They Were Trying to Solve With This Change: “We can’t spend money on our real villain so we’ll just keep Jumba evil.”
The reason this is dumb is obvious. They created their own problem, and the ‘fix’ makes the movie weaker, not stronger. But here’s how.
In the original, Jumba is introduced as trying to self-protect. He’s on trial, and he lies. But when Stitch is revealed, he’s genuinely passionate about the thing he’s created. And he cares about image. He prefers to be called “evil genius,” and he hates the headlines labelling him “idiot scientist.”
You have to remember he’s part of “Galaxy Defense Industries.” They had him making weapons of destruction anyway. He just got too into it with his genetic Experiments, went a little insane.
I’m not downplaying the fact that Jumba is evil at the start of the movie. He is. It is evil to be outcasted from society and then respond to that with, “well, if they’re going to treat me like an idiot, I’LL SHOW THEM, I won’t care about anything except my passion for mad science!” That’s evil.
But it also explains a lot.
I said it in another post. Jumba’s whole utility as a character is that he knows who and what Stitch really is, better than anyone. He made him to be a monster who can’t belong and wreaks havoc on everybody else’s ‘place of belonging.’ Jumba is the audience’s insider’s perspective on what is going on in Stitch’s head, at first.
But when he’s redeemed, it happens fast. And why? Because that’s how plain and simple Stitch is, as a character. Jumba knows Stitch is a disgusting little monster with nothing inherently loveable about him, and no “greater purpose.” So when his disgusting monster is loved by someone? When his disgusting monster is willing to ask him, Jumba, for help? Something totally outside his programming, totally not what Jumba thought he’d ever be capable of?
That proves to Jumba, in an instant, that there’s love out there that transforms. And creates a place of belonging.
There were already germs of that, a desire to belong, a compassion, in Jumba after he reached earth.
He doesn’t try to get Nani fired, he offers an explanation for Pleakley’s swollen head.
He claims he won’t hit Lilo (why would he care about collateral damage?)
He sounds sorry for Nani when she’s upset about losing Lilo, and tries to keep Stitch from bothering her.
My point is, Jumba’s redemption isn’t important because it’s cute or because we need to set up the big happy found-family trope everybody loves.
Jumba’s redemption is important because it is just one more PROOF that what’s happened to Stitch is so incredible. The love Jumba finds transforming his monster is enough to transform Jumba, too.
But sure, fine, whatever, make him a soulless one-dimensional talking head. Whatever.
4. Stitch’s Design
In this movie, Stitch is cuter than he is ugly, and he’s half Lilo’s size.
The Problem They Were Trying to Solve With This Change: “Ugly-cute doesn’t come across as well in ‘live action’ animation. And all the Wal-Mart moms remember Stitch as ‘cute.’ Plus we’ll save about 15% in rendering the animation.”
This is crippling to the characterization of Stitch.
Stitch is supposed to be an echo of who Lilo could become now that she’s lost her parents and may be losing Nani. This scene:
Where Jumba points out that Stitch has nothing, and destruction is his only purpose, is the evidence for that. But Chris Sanders, who made this whole story, also point-blank said it. Stitch is a future Lilo, if she loses her family.
So that’s reason number 1 that he should be her same height. But also, practically, no iconic pair of best friends, yin and yang, have visuals where one is smaller than the other. Especially not if one of them is supposed to be disguised as a pet.
The point is, Stitch is not LILO’s pet. He is her best friend, her other half. But between the muzzle-muscles they worked into his upper lip and the darkened dog nose and the butt-scooting across the floor, the remake is trying to make him more pet-like in relation to Lilo.
That’s not what he is.
I said this in another post. But Stitch is supposed to throw food to the back of his head like a gator—his lips are not designed for forming words. His gums and teeth are supposed to look like a shark’s. His nose is supposed to be too big, stamped into his face. His ears are supposed to be like bat ears, not bunny ears. He hunches forward, instead of bending at the waist like a toddler. His eyes can narrow to lizard slits.
He has to look like he can believably be a disgusting monster. Yes, he can also be cute. But he has to first look like a monster. Because that’s what he really is, in the story. If he isn’t, then LILO’s love for him doesn’t look as powerful.
It is easy to love a cat even if it scratches you, because it’s cute. It’s harder to love a life-sized spider that keeps knocking you down and eating your prized possessions and laughing when you get hurt. Stitch is supposed to be closer to the second one, so that Lilo’s love shines brighter.
But also, practically:
She can’t look him in the eye for emotional shots when he’s that short. He’ll always have to awkwardly be standing on a box or a chair or a bed.
How is he going to scoop her up, hero-style, and leap off of an exploding spaceship with her in his arms, when he’s half her size? He could do it: it’ll look stupid, though. So they just don’t have that part in the movie.
She can pick him up. That alone is demeaning and again, the visuals are silly. Not what we’re going for.
5. Lilo’s Personality
In this movie, Lilo doesn’t like weird stuff, and she screams when she first meets Stitch. There’s no problem that this solves. It’s just laziness and a lack of care about the characters.
I would like to remind you that the original Lilo:
Made her own doll that looks like a shrunken head and pretended a bug laid eggs in her ears.
Makes up stories about a fish that controls the weather and actively deep-sea dives to bring it peanut butter sandwiches.
Has a knee-jerk reaction of using practical voodoo spells on friends who wrong her.
Listens exclusively to Elvis Presley.
Fills baby bottles with coffee.
Believes Nani’s manager is a vampire.
Has fishing nets and seashells in her room for decoration.
takes safari pictures of overweight bleached tourists.
meets a social worker and her first impulse is to ask if he’s killed someone.
Nails the door shut when she’s mad at her big sister.
She’s not friends with pound dogs in that original movie; when they first get there she acts like she’s never been in the kennel before, and originally wants a pet lobster.
I know that we all love that little girl they got to play Lilo, but if you were really being objective, you’d acknowledge that she’s a little girl. She’s not Lilo. She’s a cute little girl.
They did not write Lilo into the 2025 movie. They wrote any old little girl.
You should have known, from the moment she first sees Stitch and her reaction is to scream in the trailer, that THAT IS NOT LILO.
Lilo had a very specific set of characterizations. She was a character with a personality that exploded out of the screen. Every other character in the movie meets Stitch and reacts with disgust.
But not. LILO. She’s the only one to react to him like THIS:
She is literally not like anyone else. She’s doesn’t care that he’s ugly. Or weird. Or blue. Or even bat an eye when he can talk with all those shark teeth.
From Moment One, Lilo chooses Stitch. She chooses to love him. Regardless of what he can do for her. Regardless of how many times he pushes her over or rips up her house or makes her relationship with Nani harder. That is the number one thing about Lilo.
She is desperate for people to stay, but she chooses to love Stitch even though he’s a monster. And she tries to make him better. And her love succeeds in transforming him when nothing else could.
Lilo’s personality traits all mean something in the story. (I.e. she likes Elvis because she’s clinging to the past, she snaps pictures of tourists like they’re safari animals because they’re inherently people who LEAVE and she has issues with LEAVING, etc.) But the thing I think that was so obvious that the moviemakers missed for 2025 is she has to be weird. If she’s not weird, there’s no reason for her not to have friends. And if she has friends, what does she need Stitch for?
But also, Lilo’s personality in the new movie is just boring. Cute. But boring. Cute’s not that great of an accomplishment; any 7 year-old is cute.
6. Nani
I don’t think you guys need to know this. It’s not just that Nani leaves. It’s that “take care of yourself” is the exact opposite of the selfless message of the movie.
In the beginning, Lilo literally argues with Nani after being told she’s “such a pain,” and goes, “why don’t you SELL ME and buy a RABBIT INSTEAD?”
And then breaks down and cries at the thought of Nani wishing she had a rabbit instead of Lilo, later.
Because Lilo is afraid of people leaving. But Nani won’t leave her. Nani loses her job, her own life, because of Lilo. But she’s desperate to keep Lilo anyway, because she loves her. Don’t you understand? The message of the movie was about self-sacrificial love. A love that doesn't care what I get out of the relationship.
Nani starts it. But you know what, David loves her like that, too. And then Lilo transfers it to Stitch, who shows it off to Jumba. It’s a chain reaction, but Nani is spearheading it.
You realize that when their parents died, Nani already would’ve been in high school? With a whole life of her own? Her own friends, her own potential boyfriend, a job she went to, surf competitions (the trophies are in her room.) Lilo would’ve been well aware that that was the status-quo: Nani has her own life. And even a seven year-old can see that that life is being put on hold, but maybe the big sister wants to go back to it, at every turn.
The fact that Nani never does that, never expresses a desire for that, only ever expresses a desire to keep Lilo with her, is huge. It’s the core of the movie.
I don’t think that needs any more explaining.
We could talk more. Like about how Lilo needs to see that Stitch is an alien, because that’s the ultimate test: he’s one of the monsters who destroyed her house, he’s been lying to her and using her as a human shield, he’s a criminal—but she still winds up giving everything up to protect him.
Anyway. My neck hurts and I don’t want to type anymore. But we could talk about the music, the social worker, the grand councilwoman—it just doesn’t matter.
Ya’ll had more than enough details in the trailer to be able to not go see this movie because it was obviously going to ruin everything. But instead you chose to make this twisted corpse “the highest-grossing movie of any Memorial Day.” You bought tickets because they ruined a perfect movie and slapped together an uglier package for you.
Whatever. It was my favorite movie today, it’ll be your Treasure Planet or Tangled tomorrow. Keep riiiight on giving them your money, and keep letting influencers regurgitate the same four obvious facts to you over and over, because they paid Disney to make a talking-point for their content benefit. Whatever.
A rabbit, his sword and his slain enemy.
Inspired by illuminated manuscript marginalia depicting armed rabbits.
divert all power to the funk engine
Eris, judging by the trailers and photos from the season finale, Alya is going to end her friendship with Marinette. And because of that, people started saying some not-so-nice things about her... Like, the things they said about her after the Chameleon episode... and which only got worse after the Ladybug episode... Like, the saltfics are going to come back in full force... Honestly, I don't know if I should be surprised or not.
😤😮💨 this fandom I swear. A certain side of it would sooner blame anyone and everyone over Marinette, including the people she hurt, especially if it's Alya. They cry about critics who are misogynistic and racist towards Marinette and yet they turn around and be just that around Alya. Those people can't handle the complications Marinette's actions brings, the sheer scale of her betrayal and abuse of everyone's trust isn't just some secret she had any right to keep for herself. Think about it from Alya's perspective:
She helped Marinette in and out of the costume, especially after she told her she's Ladybug.
She covers up for Marinette, even taking over babysitting duties for her - which is completely contrary to what saltfics would have you believe. She does this even before the reveal.
She continued to help Marinette even if it got dangerous.
Hawkmoth attacked Alya in her own home and held her family and her boyfriend hostage, threatened to drop them to their deaths because he knew she is Rena Rouge. And she continued to help Marinette after this.
And then months later Marinette will make Alya call this guy a hero - let me repeat, Alya is now calling the guy who directly attacked her and loved ones a goddamn hero.
Nino almost broke up with her, thinking she's hiding an affair from him when she keeps leaving him to help Marinette as Rena Furtive and it lead to a stupid misunderstanding. This all started ecause Marinette told her to keep it a secret, insisted on it until Alya cracked cause she couldn't handle it and told Nino after he got akumatized over it. Regardless of what people may say about djwifi, Alya does value this relationship, cares about Nino and is proud about how they don't hide things from each other.
Alya has past issues with people hiding things from her stemming from her family not telling her that Nora is her half sibling and she really doesn't wanna do that to others. She told Marinette about it this season. MLB may have issues about consistency with a lot of things but Alya has been fairly consistent with not wanting to be the sort of person to hide critical secrets from people she cares about...
The first time she learned about those secrets, she was so mad (rightfully so) on Adrien's behalf. And yet she didn't out Marinette, she wanted to give her a chance to come clean on her own and has explicitly told Marinette she does not want to be complicit in this big lie. Went as far as to get her memories wiped just to not out Marinette cause she knows she's never gonna be able to act like normal while knowing it.
And Marinette still tricked Alya into using her Rena Rouge powers to lie to Adrien, not accepting her compromises to just help Marinette excuse herself as she could've lied to Adrien herself. She really wanted Alya to make that illusion Ladybug to lie to Adrien. This is even more gross knowing Marinette should be aware how Alya feels about doing this if she were to know the truth.
She broke the one boundary Alya had - literally only asked one thing out of Marinette. Like, feel free to correct me, but this is like the one time Alya asked Marinette for anything? It's so rare that it feels like the first time she asked anything of Marinette and like, look how horrendously she bulldozed over that boundary.
She supported her every step of the way, trusting Marinette as her friend and superhero leader of the team and dropped almost everything for her. And this is how Marinette repays her trust.
Other than Adrien, Alya may as well be the biggest victim of Marinette's lies and she only loses out to him cause she's not a Senti and that's not her father. Nobody trusted Marinette more than Alya, even when presented with something that should've broken that trust she still gave her another chance. If anyone has any rights to be mad at Marinette after all the secrets are revealed, Alya deserves to be at the front of the line. If anyone got betrayed here, it's Alya.
Eris, judging by the trailers and photos from the season finale, Alya is going to end her friendship with Marinette. And because of that, people started saying some not-so-nice things about her... Like, the things they said about her after the Chameleon episode... and which only got worse after the Ladybug episode... Like, the saltfics are going to come back in full force... Honestly, I don't know if I should be surprised or not.
😤😮💨 this fandom I swear. A certain side of it would sooner blame anyone and everyone over Marinette, including the people she hurt, especially if it's Alya. They cry about critics who are misogynistic and racist towards Marinette and yet they turn around and be just that around Alya. Those people can't handle the complications Marinette's actions brings, the sheer scale of her betrayal and abuse of everyone's trust isn't just some secret she had any right to keep for herself. Think about it from Alya's perspective:
She helped Marinette in and out of the costume, especially after she told her she's Ladybug.
She covers up for Marinette, even taking over babysitting duties for her - which is completely contrary to what saltfics would have you believe. She does this even before the reveal.
She continued to help Marinette even if it got dangerous.
Hawkmoth attacked Alya in her own home and held her family and her boyfriend hostage, threatened to drop them to their deaths because he knew she is Rena Rouge. And she continued to help Marinette after this.
And then months later Marinette will make Alya call this guy a hero - let me repeat, Alya is now calling the guy who directly attacked her and loved ones a goddamn hero.
Nino almost broke up with her, thinking she's hiding an affair from him when she keeps leaving him to help Marinette as Rena Furtive and it lead to a stupid misunderstanding. This all started ecause Marinette told her to keep it a secret, insisted on it until Alya cracked cause she couldn't handle it and told Nino after he got akumatized over it. Regardless of what people may say about djwifi, Alya does value this relationship, cares about Nino and is proud about how they don't hide things from each other.
Alya has past issues with people hiding things from her stemming from her family not telling her that Nora is her half sibling and she really doesn't wanna do that to others. She told Marinette about it this season. MLB may have issues about consistency with a lot of things but Alya has been fairly consistent with not wanting to be the sort of person to hide critical secrets from people she cares about...
The first time she learned about those secrets, she was so mad (rightfully so) on Adrien's behalf. And yet she didn't out Marinette, she wanted to give her a chance to come clean on her own and has explicitly told Marinette she does not want to be complicit in this big lie. Went as far as to get her memories wiped just to not out Marinette cause she knows she's never gonna be able to act like normal while knowing it.
And Marinette still tricked Alya into using her Rena Rouge powers to lie to Adrien, not accepting her compromises to just help Marinette excuse herself as she could've lied to Adrien herself. She really wanted Alya to make that illusion Ladybug to lie to Adrien. This is even more gross knowing Marinette should be aware how Alya feels about doing this if she were to know the truth.
She broke the one boundary Alya had - literally only asked one thing out of Marinette. Like, feel free to correct me, but this is like the one time Alya asked Marinette for anything? It's so rare that it feels like the first time she asked anything of Marinette and like, look how horrendously she bulldozed over that boundary.
She supported her every step of the way, trusting Marinette as her friend and superhero leader of the team and dropped almost everything for her. And this is how Marinette repays her trust.
Other than Adrien, Alya may as well be the biggest victim of Marinette's lies and she only loses out to him cause she's not a Senti and that's not her father. Nobody trusted Marinette more than Alya, even when presented with something that should've broken that trust she still gave her another chance. If anyone has any rights to be mad at Marinette after all the secrets are revealed, Alya deserves to be at the front of the line. If anyone got betrayed here, it's Alya.
Honestly, watching TA's "Birthday's are stupid irrelevant info" meltdown on Twitter just kind of...reaffirmed my view of him basically being french Ken Penders - both wanted to work in "the big leagues" and make "sophisticated, adult works" for a clearly older audience that would launch them to stardom and make them into "true artists". Unfortunately(?), life, lack of brand recognition, and the minefield that is media corporations did not allow them their grand start they dreamed of and they were thus forced to "degrade" themselves making children's media pieces instead. However, they just could not let go of their magnum opus and those dreams of an easy rise to artistehood that they've been dragging alongside them for so many years, and as such decided that instead of simply putting the story aside for a time until they had the capital and proper industry foothold necessary to actually bring them onstage in the manner they desired - they instead cannibalized (or in TA's, mutilated and them reanimated the desiccated remains) the work they were given to force in their ideas and had the magnum opus basically wear the plots they were supposed to be writing like a misshaped skinsuit as it caused their show/comic to fall apart at the seams trying to sustain two different half-lives within itself. And if anyone complain? Well, they're just haters who "can't see the vision" and are trying to bring them down, just like those corporate jerks who sneered at them and wouldn't let their poor Magnm Opuses see the light of day, forcing them to have to use such "disgraceful" methods just to ensure their grand works are seen by the unwashed masses to be properly enlightened by their genius.
And even now, several years in, they're still not over never being "given a proper chance to shine", using social media and their respective PR teams's near neglectfulness to jaw on and on about all their "cool and amazing" (Read: poorly optic considered and boarderline racist) ideas and worldbuilding that never seems to ever make it to the screen/page (and when they do - Whoa boy...), pick fights with critcs and media franchises way outside their weightclass (and in Ken's case, making endless frivolous copyright lawsuits over one he was pointedly fired from), and just make their grudge over not being allowed to make their "true" versions into reality everyone else's problem (though with how they've treated the versions we were given, one must wonder if this was not a blessing in disguise).
I know you’re more of an “Adrien centered” criticism/defense blog but I am curious about your opinion on this.
What is your opinion on the “Chloe deserves/doesn’t deserve redemption” situation or the “Chloe wasn’t meant to be redeemed and there for what happened to her is fair game” stance?
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My thoughts on the Chloé situation are kinda complex. Back when the show only had three seasons, I did think Chloé’s character trajectory made sense. Sure, she’d saved people when she was acting as Queen Bee, but she still treated her classmates the same. In fact, she started treating Sabrina worse than before because she considered being anything other than Queen Bee hanging out with Ladybug was slumming it. For me, it really was a 50/50 on whether or not Chloé would be redeemed or fall into actual villainy.
Because, here’s how I saw it: I didn’t think Chloé was an actual villain-villain in seasons 1-3. She was Marinette’s school nemesis and a decidedly defanged one. Marinette was scared of her exactly once, in Origins, a flashback episode meant to showcase how much more confident being Ladybug has made Marinette that she views Chloé as small potatoes. The season 3 finale could have been the culmination of an arc where Marinette accidentally causes Chloé to become a villain and ally herself with Hawk Moth in the future.
And it would have been caused by Marinette, even if unintentionally. It would have shown how good intentions can have unforeseen consequences, especially when you don’t know what you’re helping someone with or what they want before you do so. Marinette doesn’t really understand what she’s trying to help people with whenever she does try to be helpful, because she assumes what they want and need instead of asking and listening (like in Reflekdoll, the latter part of Ikari Gozen and Quilt Trip). Many heroes create their own villains this way, and Marinette could have done so as well since she was the one to strengthen Chloé’s bond with the person who taught her to be an entitled bully and then she dragged her feet on whether or not she could use the Bee Miraculous.
The season 3 finale shows Chloé brought to a new low. The following New York Special gives us a glimpse of a Chloé who is withdrawn, like she’s reconsidering her life. This could have led to Chloé deciding that she would have revenge on Ladybug for leading her on and then dumping her (as a teammate). But, it could have also have led to Chloé realizing that, while Ladybug wasn’t her friend, Sabrina was, and she pushed the latter away in pursuit of being the Bee Miraculous holder. Chloé could have gained new insight that would have led her to start working on how she treats those closest to her, finally starting to treat her schoolmates with decency and, maybe, with time, kindness.
Then season 4 came along and all that foreshadowed introspection was dumped out the window in favor of having Chloé do cartoonishly stupid school antagonist character things. In season 4, where this kind of hijinks are so incredibly low-stakes that it’s both laughable to see, and laughable to realize the writers think this is good television.
I think the writers realized this too, because then comes season 5 with the retcon that, actually, Chloé is an evil mastermind who is so heinous that she orchestrated a traumatic event that led to Marintette’s character flaws and therefore Marinette should be forgiven for her flaws and Chloé blamed for them. Never mind the damage this episode does to Kim’s character, turning him from an oblivious to jock to a total creep, it also tries to convince us that Chloé is this big threat despite that it happened at least a year ago in-universe and that she had never done anything even close to this bad since. It just makes no sense when contrasting with the early seasons, where Marinette treats Kim as just one classmate among many and Chloé as a low-threat nuisance.
The problem was that they decided that they didn’t want Marinette to hold any responsibility for anything she does anymore. This is why they wrote the episode ‘Derision’, to absolve Marinette of all responsibility in her stalking of Adrien, even though them making it a serious trauma response instead of a cartoon-logic joke means that now she absolutely should take responsibility for her behavior and get therapy. Because they wanted to give Marinette a retroactive justification, the episode just doesn’t mesh with the rest of the show. But, like, the writing in Miraculous seasons 4-5 is so bad it’s of course never just about a single episode, it’s all about how the Miraculous writers don’t know how to build up arcs that then come to a logical conclusion, which is why all their story arcs’ endings fall flat and leave viewers thinking “where’s the rest of it?” when they’re not considered one of the worst finales for a show.
Basically, making Chloé a villain could have worked, but it would have required her getting built up into such a status. The Chloé of seasons 1-3 isn’t a monster, she’s a brat. But the writers didn’t want to do that work despite wanting that story, thinking some repetitive episodes of Chloé being a brat some more will accomplish the same thing. So, Chloé just keeps performing petty bullying until the writers think the viewers forgot that she’s like this because of her mother, who Marinette reunited her with, all the while pretending the woman who calls her by the wrong name to her face on purpose has done nothing wrong as a parent other than “leave”, before she randomly turns on Miss Bustier and starts working with Hawk Moth for supposedly no reason in Collusion.
And, like, the thing that really grinds my gears is that it worked. So many people forgot that Chloé’s bullying was modeled to her by her mother, who Marinette reunited her with. Marinette repeatedly tries to fix abused kids’ relationships to their parents with no regard for how that could harm them in the long run (Adrien, Chloé and Kagami). It’s a pattern, but the show thinks Marinette’s missteps shouldn’t be pointed out because she “had good intentions” when her intentions in the instances of The Bubbler, Style Queen and Ikari Gozen were nothing more than: “Well, my parents are great, so these kids are obviously safe with the parents I just saw make them miserable!” The accusing finger for Chloé’s behavior should be pointed at Audrey. Marinette being “triumphant” over Chloé because Chloé is now stuck with the abuser who made her is already iffy without the added grossness of Marinette being the one who reunited them in the first place.
Guess Who's back with this pookie arts, yeyee
[DON'T.EVEN.REPOST ON PINTEREST or in Another media cuz I already know an account who repost my arts in there..yeah I know who.]
pick a cartoon puppy to adopt!
you once said you're not a fan of Marinette being a fashion designer because of the show being 3D. do you have an idea of what you think would've worked better?
Honestly, I'd rather the show was 2D animated. It's not just the fashion designer thing, the show also does a ton of anime-esque visual gags that straight-up don't work in 3D. That being said, if the crew really wanted the show to be 3D, they should've had Marinette design literally anything other than clothing. I'd go with Marinette wanting to become an engineer and designing a lot of Rube Goldberg machines, mostly because we already have some of that in canon with her diary box in Darkblade.
Also, I just can't see Marinette being a fashion designer in the traditional sense. She strikes me as the type to have a small tailor's shop where she designs custom-made clothing, not really making the kind of (un)wearable art pieces you see on runways. And the show seems to agree with me, because in Pretension, she has this to say to Gabe: "You're wrong! Fashion is about listening to people, it's about understanding who they are, what excites them and creating the clothes that will help them express their inner world. Help them connect with others and make their dreams come true."
Renabug Fanart🐞🦊🧡