âI have no hesitation in saying that James would have been highly disappointed if his son had never found any of the secret passages out of the castle.â
Lily Evans was incredibly lucky that Severus had his self-esteem in the negatives and was emotionally dependent on her because if it had been me, and a so-called friend watched me get bullied and abused for years by a gang of rich kids she lowkey thought were funny (like, seriously, that alone is insane), and then gaslit me about the abuse I was experiencing, only to cut me off because I lashed out under intense emotional distress⌠I swear, Iâd lose it.
Like, no, I wouldnât literally hurt her, but if Iâd been Severus Snape, Iâd either have smashed her smug little face in or come up with a twisted, slow-burn revenge plot to make her beg for mercy.
Lily Evans: the queen of double standards and moral inconsistency. No sense of loyalty, no real ethics, absolutely no personal code.
I'm usually with the Lily critical posts, but I don't think this level of blame is warranted. Just because I do believe she thought she was helping.
She told Severus he was wrong for hanging around aspiring deatheaters and going as far as breaking curfew to stalk the marauders around in order to catch them doing something wrong.
Is this bad advice? No. It's actually excellent advice.
Is it fair to shift all the blame and responsibility on to Snape to have 'better' friends and deal perfectly with the constant stream of harassment and bullying from the marauders?
Is it helpful to ignore all context and go straight to looking at Snape's faults and shortcomings?
Is it mindful to take the time to nag at James WHILE Severus is actively under attack, when a simple hex to the back of Potters head would've at least afforded Severus some dignity, stability and time to recover.
... I'd say no. And man do the interactions between Severus and Lily stress me out.
Lily is trying to be helpful by giving unsolicited advice, holding people accountable, and telling them how they should handle themselves. I don't think she's being manipulative or self-righteous. I think she's incapable of understanding why someone like Snape would struggle to 'act right' because she's comparing it to how she would handle it. How she handles Petunia's bullying, the glaring racism from the purebloods, and James's... err.. attention.
Not taking into account that, unlike her, Snape:
1. Snape was born into poverty and raised in a chaotic and unsafe household
2. Was clearly neglected and overly self-reliant (dressing himself in mismatched, oversized, clothes and taking it upon himself to teach Lily about magic) meaning this kid has had no guidance, has had to 'wing it' with limited recources all his life, and is grasping for any sense of belonging or self-worth
3. Likely enstranged from everyone in their muggle neighborhood besides Lily, so little to no practice with social interactions outside of their little friendship that he has had to 'earn' by teaching her things she might find interesting
4. I'm not saying he's definitely autistic, but... the obsession/hyperfixation with dark arts, struggling impossibly to explain things to Lily, pissing James off in the train on accident (if his suprise at his reaction is anything to go by), the intense eye contact, the way he walks, the way he talks, not reading the cues when Sirius practically lead him to his death. Like, the full list of signs can be a post by itself, but any of these will make you very unliked/unsafe even to the best of your efforts/intentions.
5. The marauders don't treat her anything like the way they treat Snape, just as the deatheater hopefuls treat Snape differently than how they treat her.
6. Snape has never known a day without disrespect. I don't think he was excluded from being called a mudblood by his housemates (or his mother for that matter), and I don't think it registered as the worst of his worries. His experience of this word wouldn't be the same as Lily, and while you can blame him for abusing others with it, he can't be blamed for feeling whichever way about it when it applies to him too.
7. Lily being non-compliant in Gryffindor means her friends are going to be judgemental for awhile. Severus being in Slytherin and non compliant can get him targeted and blacklisted. The consequences just aren't the same.
8. After years of magical education, both of them are essentially incompetent in the muggle world. But if they had to resort to moving back, at least Lily has her family for support, whereas Severus has his family as an additional detriment.
9. Lily is never critisized, and people NEED someone to hold a mirror to them in order to improve. Whereas Severus is constantly criticized and invalidated no matter what, so where tf is he supposed to go if left, right, up, down, backwards, and forwards, are all the wrong answer deserving of divine and worldly punishment?
It makes sense that Lily gets frustrated and feels done with Severus because he's refusing to take her advice and 'be better'. It makes sense that she prioritizes her own happiness when it becomes clear that nothing she says or does to 'help' Severus pays off. To her, he never shows a sign of improvement or even readiness to follow her advice.
She's a child. She's not a therapist. She's not clairvoyant. Her empathy and understanding of the world are limited. Her energy and time are limited. The weight of trauma and the lens of a neurodivergent person are unfamiliar to her.
To ask her to be a good friend to Snape is like giving abstract algebra to someone who gets good grades in math. The support that Snape needs is beyond anything that can be reasonably asked of one teenage girl. Especially while they are both trapped in an environment that compounds and preys on his trauma, and demands of them to pick one of two sides.
Not to mention her own circumstances. She's being asked to give loyalty to someone who is prancing around with people who wish her 'sort' harm, never truly knowing who Severus feels loyalty to until she pretty much got her answer. She's being pressured by her peers, under a ton of stress because of the political climate at the time, she's the only somewhat reliable prefect from Gryffindor, her sister is an asshole so she is always around at least one or more asshole not knowing a day of peace from the unrelenting assholeness of people... Give her a break.
Sometimes I think this fandom forgets that the Marauders and Snape are boomers. I just saw an "rip Lily Evans you would have loved Dolly Parton" post and like... Dolly Parton began her career in the 60s. Lily most definitely would have listened to "Jolene" as a 13 year old kid. And as a fanfic writer myself, I don't want to unnecessarily dunk on anyone's hard work, but it is a pet peeve of mine when I search for fics set in the Marauders era during the 1970s and the characters all sound like they are heavily involved in 2024 tumblr discourse. These kids would have never heard the term "genderfluid." They would call themselves transsexual or a butch dyke and there would be 212% more cigarette smoke, just everywhere. Fuck there was a designated smoking area at my boomer parents' high school for students and so long as the parents signed the permission slip the kids could go there and smoke. This was incredibly common (at least in American high schools) pre-1980s. Like, I can see the Evans family playing a game of lawn darts, Mr Evans with a beer in one hand, a cigarette in his mouth, throwing highly dangerous lawn darts that would eventually be recalled because of all the deaths it caused. Severus Snape had most certainly absorbed lead from the leaded paint in his house. Nobody was going to call the cops on any abuse they might see going on in the Snape's house because its the 1960/1970s and "how Mr. Snape disciplines his son is his business." War rationing had just ended 6 years before Snape, Lily, and the Marauders were born. Mental illness was extremely taboo, dyslexia wasn't really recognized in schools or talked about until the 1980s, after the Marauders had graduated, a lot of people were still calling PTSD "shell shock." For Muggles, there was no real DNA testing (it was in its infancy), no cellphones you had to pray there was a payphone nearby, and you wpuld talk to a telephone operator. It wasn't until 1966 that the UK switched to an all-digit telephone numbers. Before then instead of an area code it was a central office in every city/region that used letters. So if Lily, as a six year old girl, wanted to talk to her grandma in Manchester, her mother would have dialed something like MAN-9126 (I actually have no idea what Manchester's central office code was lol, this is just an example). Cokeworth is likely a Victorian mill town, and the major push to replace outdoor plumbing with indoor plumbing didn't start until the 1960s. Severus would have most likely spent his early years without indoor plumbing while living in a rowhouse built in the 1860s. Tubs would have had to be filled by hand, laundry scrubbed by hand and hung out to dry, he would have used an outdoor toilet and considering he is in a poor urban area he most likely would have shared this toilet with his neighbors in the other rowhouses.
These characters' story are shaped by the time they lived in, and sometimes I think the fandom doesn't realize how different the 1960s and 1970s really was.
No, it's okay because in a sea of teachers locking students out of their dorms with a supposed mass murderer on the loose, forcing them to pledge a deadly vow to cover up an actual crime that they were a victim in, leading students into danger regularly, exposing them to deadly (and illegaly bred) animals, and theatrically predicting their ominous death, Snape's mean jabs don't particularly stand out to me.
Also, if we're allowed to draw from our own experiences, I've had teachers make jabs at me similar to Snape. I honestly just found them funny at the time too. I can't personally relate to the upset.
But I mean, do you.
No offense for picking out your post, you just happened upon my feed somehow, and I'm in a mood. Really, you do you.
Sirius is a classist, arrogant asshole who's a Black through and through, even despite fighting on the right side and being sorted into Gryffindor. There is a reason he dueled Bellatrix in OoTP and has such a striking resemblance to her. His sadistic predatory streak, his dehumanization of the people he dislikes, his arrogance and haughty attitude towards everyone around him except the people he cares about the most. His dismissiveness towards those he deems as less smart than him. His obvious displays of power play with Peter and with his friends. He just needs to always feel like he is superior in some way. He is a hypocrite, and I believe that his main saving grace that allowed him to make semi-right decisions was James. James, despite also being a classist asshole, forced him to open his mind to muggleborns - mostly because he respected James. He respected him, therefore he reevaluted his beliefs. The fact he has a reckless and rebellious personality also led to his easy change of attitude, but if he didn't respect James, I do not believe he would develop that sort of sympathy. There is simply no way that someone like Sirius, who was raised in such a bigoted and strict family, would ever reevaluate his beliefs if it didn't serve him in some way. His only loyalty is to his loved ones and to his ego. I'm not saying he is evil and I do not hate him, I just dislike the notion that he is a good person, and I especially dislike the fandom's portrayal of him as this sympathetic guy who always tries his best or whatever. His famous quote about judging a person based on how he treats his inferiors is so ironic cuz look at how he treats those he deems as inferior (in power, smarts or class) and you just want to slap his hypocritical ass.
^^ just wanna add, that the most pro-muggle/muggleborn characters don't actually seem to respect or like muggles at all.
Dumbledore, who basically strong-armed the Dursleys into housing and raising a high-profile magical child against their will and had ~past~ beliefs of muggles being inferior creatures.
Hagrid, an adult, conjured a pig's tail on Dudly's ass, a child, knowing that there's nothing the Dursleys can do about it.
The Weasley twins, likewise, mutate Dudley with magic and run off keekeeing.
Sirius and James, throwing a muggle police car at, presumably, broom riding deathers that were chasing them and gleefully mocking the muggle police officer to his face before driving off.
Even Arthur's weird interest in muggle things reads as someone taking an interest in animals and their strange rituals and habitats. Like, I can't even call it 'exoticism', he actually talks about muggles like they're a different species using quirky tools to compensate for their incompetence. You could visit a damn muggle library if you were genuine about learning this shit. It's crazy.
There's so many examples. Slughorn's smarmy ass using Lily's name to prove he doesn't discriminate against muggleborns, Fudge harassing the muggle Prime minister like his schedule and office holds no importance to him, all the wizards and witches celebrating in open view after the fall of Voldemort cause the clean-up crew can just wipe the peskier memories of muggles if they hear a little too much.
It's straight-up hypocrisy. They like the sound of 'defending muggle rights' and rather than actually respecting them like equal human beings and living in open sight of eachother, it instead looks like hiding in the wizarding world and acting like this is benevolence. It's cowardice.
I'm not saying Voldemort or Grindlewald were the solution, far from it, but looking to the light side for muggle rights ain't it. If they were actually sincere, magic wouldn't have been kept secret, and muggles would be allowed to join the effort and fight back themselves rather than being forced to watch travesty after travesty and having their minds manipulated each time so as to not be able to identify their aggressors.
hi!
i saw in one of your posts you wrote about how Sirius Black had no reason to bully Snape and i thought about itâŚ..i mean doesn't his hatred seem too personal? we have Lupin who has no contact with Snape after book 3 but Sirius goes crazy when Snape is around and they are alone so he can attack him (kitchen scene in book 5). and he knows so much about him: who he hung out with at school, his relationship with Lucius; at the same time he doesn't know about the mark, about how Severus was the one who brought the prophecy to voldemort that led to Lily and James death. and yes he is stuck at age 21 but even then they graduated school and as he says they never heard of Snape in those years. It seems a bit odd: don't bullies usually try to downplay their role in what they did to the victim, or even try to make it look like nothing happened? And he and Remus try to do that with Harry, but at the same time he seems incredibly proud and pleased with himself when he talks about the prank.
One moment confused me when I was reading book 3: when Sirius has Peter at gunpoint with his wand, he is extremely focused on him. He doesn't take his eyes off him, because it was for this moment, the act of revenge, that he escaped from prison. As far as I remember, Harry describes it as "nothing could distract him at that moment" or something like that. But as soon as Remus even mentions Snape, Sirius' attention suddenly switches: he turns away from Peter and asks about him again.
Or when he watches Snape during the OWL exams??? Especially when Rowling describes his reaction after the exam, when he sees him under the tree, as the reaction of a dog to a rabbit. He seems so obsessed and like something happened between them that really got to him. Or he's just as intolerant of half-bloods as his family.
I completely agree with you that Sirius bullied Snape simply because James did it and he found it funny. But his hatred seems excessive, he has no reason to hate Snape so much. James has his excuse about Lily, but Sirius has none of that. But he still tries to kill him and it doesn't really matter hides, lol. I've read an opinion that he hates him because of his unrequited feelings for James, where Severus is the reason James even noticed Lily, which I don't really agree with, to be honest.
Sorry, it got too long, ahaha.
What I want to ask is: do you have any thoughts on this?
Well, the explanation for his relationships at school is quite simple because Sirius doesnât leave home until heâs 16. Considering that his brother goes to Slytherin and that Narcissa is his cousin, itâs not strange to deduce that Snapeâs name, along with other Slytherin students, probably came up at some family dinner/lunch/meeting. Like, talking about who in Regulus and Siriusâ year might have âpotential,â for example. It seems coherent to me that, considering Siriusâ environment until he leaves to live with the Potters, heâd be aware of certain things.
Leaving that aside, letâs talk about Sirius Black, because I think in recent years the Marauders fandom has ruined this character, and heâs actually a character with a lot of depth. Or at least more than many others in the saga.
(This is gonna ne so fucking long lol)
Sirius is a posh kid. Heâs a posh kid who is embarrassed about being posh and feels guilty about it. Heâs the typical rich kid from a conservative family whoâs had issues with his mom (in this case) and his way of getting back at everything he felt was missing from his childhood is to vehemently oppose everything he thinks she represents. And the funniest part is that (as is often the case) his problem with his mom is that they both have a terrible character, which is why they clash. Because Sirius has the kind of terrible character that is incompatible with anyone else who has the same terrible character. But despite everything, heâs still a posh kid. Because he comes from an aristocratic family and was raised with those values of superiority. Because heâs never had to fend for himself (he leaves home but goes to another rich family, the Potters, and on top of that, his uncle Alphard leaves him his entire inheritance, so he has plenty of money) and he has always enjoyed the privilege of his surname, his blood status, and the fact that heâs (according to Rowling) super handsome. In other words, Sirius belongs to the ruling class and behaves with the same arrogance, entitlement, and lack of empathy that is typical of that class. No matter how much he tries to deny it and distance himself from it, he can only do so on a superficial level (Muggle posters, being a Gryffindor, enchanting a Muggle motorcycle) because when it comes down to it, he has no idea how to deconstruct himself, nor is he interested in giving up or losing his privileges, because heâs quite comfortable with them. Heâs like the typical aristocratic kid from an Opus Dei family who thinks heâs better than everyone around him because he votes for the left and has been to four protests, but at the end of the day, he still lives a bourgeois life and doesnât understand the root of social problems.
That said, letâs move on to James.
I think James was everything Sirius wanted to be. No, not be, I think James had everything Sirius wanted to have: loving parents, a family that wasnât involved in a cult, a pleasant environment that allowed him to do whatever he wanted instead of being constrained by traditions and social norms, liberal and progressive ideals⌠James had the life Sirius had always wanted, but with one key detail: he was also rich and from an old, prestigious family. This is super important because when Sirius chooses his rebellion partner, he doesnât pick some random Muggle-born, or a half-blood, or someone from the middle or lower class. Sirius chooses as his best friend someone who embodies everything he wants to be/have, but who at the same time belongs to his same social stratum, both economically and in blood status. Sirius chooses a future Gryffindor rebel with very different ideas from his family, but ironically he chooses like anyone from his family would: someone with money, status, and power. And I find this super amusing because itâs so coherent with his character. I mean, if Sirius were a real person, he wouldâve done the same thing because guys like him are like that: the kings of cognitive dissonance and double standards.
Sirius always wanted Jamesâ validation, or at least thatâs how I see it. I think for him, feeling that James approved of what he did was a way to legitimize himself as someone different from his family. James represented the âprogressiveâ social elite that Sirius aspired to by rejecting the traditional values imposed on him. So, unconsciously, he understood that if he did everything James wanted, and Iâll go further, everything he thought James would like, then he would distance himself from that Black image and gain validation as something entirely opposite. The problem is that Sirius, unlike James, was raised in an environment where ethical and moral values were very different, and where it was clearly established that certain people were âthe other,â an âotherâ sociologically understood as the idea that some humans are inherently less than others. And although Sirius consciously rejected this idea, unconsciously he had been raised with it. Therefore, consciously, he didnât reject people based on their blood status because he could identify that as something his family would do, and family = bad. But unconsciously, he was conditioned to see other people as non-people, and this is where Severus comes into play.
James dislikes Severus because he sees him as an obstacle/threat/nuisance in his crush on Lily. By default, and because of that constant need for validation from James, Sirius also focuses on him as a hostile element. And if heâs hostile to James, who in a way is his moral compass, then that guy must be trash because, of course, itâs obvious. But not only that, this guy is also a half-blood and poor, so poor he wears old clothes. And on top of that, heâs ugly. And not very masculine. So he has all the elements for Sirius, the aristocrat raised in luxury under the premise that heâs better than others because of his origins, to see him as âthe otherâ and exercise all his power and privilege to oppress him without remorse, because for him, itâs justified. Justified unconsciously by the education he received, and consciously because if James hates him, there must be a good reason to hate him, so everything is justified. If we add to that the fact that Severus desires everything Sirius has always tried to reject: more social status, more recognition, power, belonging to Slytherin, rubbing shoulders with important wizards, forgetting the Muggle world he grew up in⌠well, we have a molotov cocktail for him to make Severusâ life unbearable. And Severus is an easy target for someone like school-age Sirius Black: he has no friends, no surname, no parents to protect him, and no stable socio-economic situation. Sirius can project all his frustrations onto him without any consequences. He can completely dehumanize him and stop seeing him as a person. He can behave like a Black.
I think the Prank is a good example to see the difference in upbringing between Sirius and James. Both are bullies, both are abusers, both have zero remorse when it comes to using their status and power to make life impossible for those they believe deserve it. But James was raised in an environment where he knows that actions have consequences, that you canât cross âcertain lines,â such as murder, for example. Sirius was taught the oppositeâhe was raised to think that the life of âthe otherâ holds no value, and that is something that in his story with Severus goes too far. James understands that death is something serious and can bring terrible consequences, while Sirius does not. For the Black family, death is nothing if there is a reason for the person to die, and Sirius has his own reasons for playing with Severusâ life the way Bellatrix would play with the life of any Muggle-born.
(This is something I really like as wellâthe way Sirius and Bellatrix are fundamentally alike, and how little thatâs discussed. But Iâll leave that for another time, otherwise I wonât finish.)
I donât think itâs a matter of Sirius being obsessed with Snape, but rather that, for all the reasons Iâve explained, he uses Severus as a catalyst for his repressed anger and that sadism he inherited from his family. He canât channel it toward anyone else because that would lead to absolute rejection from James. Since James hates and despises Severus, heâs never going to question Sirius for channeling all his pent-up rage on him, so itâs a free pass. If he had reached that level of sadism with someone who didnât provoke the same level of animosity in James as Severus did, he would have risked confronting his biggest fear: that James would see him as a Black, not as Sirius. Losing his validation as the black sheep to become just another one of them. So he focuses on Severus because itâs a safe bet.
Moving on to their relationship during the book canonâŚ
We donât really see a proper confrontation until the fifth book. I mean, in the third, it shows that Sirius still sees Severus as âotherâ by dragging him along while unconsciously banging his head. In the fourth, thereâs that scene where Dumbledore forces them to shake hands, and itâs clear they still hate each other. But itâs not until the fifth book that we get a real confrontation, where Sirius loses his temper. I think this has a lot to do with (drumroll) once again that cognitive dissonance between what Sirius always wanted to be and what he actually is, especially given the role he plays on the chessboard at that point in the story.
Sirius did everything he could to distance himself from his family, and the climax of that was joining the Order of the Phoenix and actively fighting against that same family, several members of whom were âsoldiersâ for the opposite side. Sirius is finally achieving what he wantsâto be a hero. To stop being part of the elite dark villains and instead be part of the heroic elite. The noble of high birth who fights valiantly for the good of the realm, just as James was destined to be. Itâs the climax, the absolute fulfillment of his adolescent desire. But then heâs thrown into Azkaban, and when he gets out, he finds that the poor, weird kid addicted to dark arts, who sucked up to future dark wizards, who hung out with purists and even joined the âbad sideââthe side of Siriusâ family, the villainsâis now the most important member of the Order. Heâs none other than Dumbledoreâs right hand. Heâs a double agent risking his neck every day and has more responsibility than anyone else. That kid Sirius called Snivellus for being a crybaby has more guts and more endurance than most people. The one who always wanted to be part of the elite Sirius hated is now the one playing them all, making them look like idiots. The one who looked frail and effeminate turns out to be more âmanly.â And that hurts. That hurts a lot. You go to prison, and when you get out, the person you didnât even consider a person not only ranks above you, but is playing in a league you canât aspire to. And the best part is, Sirius canât fully accept it because heâs still Siriusâa classist, privileged aristocrat incapable of accepting that (as is only logical) the poor working-class kid turned out to be far more useful than him in both politics and war.
That's interesting! I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see it that way.
So, from what I understood: the answer in your opinion is because Sirius is troubled and Snape is the acceptable punching bag that James picked out.
But hear me out!
The incentive to attack Snape in SWM is not anger or stress but simply boredom. There was no agitation or trigger on his part, and he even said that he wished it was a full moon because that would be entertaining to him. It wasn't about James or Snape or even his family.
At that time, to be fair to Sirius, everyone is studying for their NEWTS, he finished early into taking the test and had to sit in that room with no stimulation until the time was up- the guy is bored. He's understimulated. That's on the school for not picking up on that and giving him more challenging material.
I truly don't think in that moment it was any deeper than that. The guy is a genius, and he's being stifled.
I also disagree that Sirius is anti elitist and treading carefully with James. Especially the latter.
I'm sorry, I love these characters down, but come on. Their detention records are crazy work. These guys were hexing people, illegal hexes might I add, lower class men might I add, in the halls at random. They took Moony out for nightly strolls unfailingly every month, despite multiple close calls of a student stumbling into them. What morals?? Sirius used an unconsious and unconsenting Lupin to 'scare' Snape with zero safety measures in place, which James had to find out in the last minute, and he was forgiven far too easily from how unseriously he takes it over a decade later. He tells James to pipe it down when he's just minding his business, and he actually just quietly does it.
As for anti-elitist and being embarrassed about his socioeconomic station... yes and no. Hard yes for blood-purism, canonically, his family's fanaticism drove him up the wall. Tentative no for being born into wealth.
Not only does he have no problem accepting and spending his family's money, he targets people who are 'beneath him' and abuses his parent's affluence and inheritance to the fullest.
Peter, who is treated disrespectfully and can't fight back because hanging out with the marauders is already a privilege
Remus, who's painful transformations are used as a form of entertainment and a tool to scare someone off, and truly cannot afford to be on the marauders bad side, and is forced to swallow his discomfort at times like SWM
Kreacher, who is literally indentured to him and gets insulted, pushed around and has his precious things forcibly taken away from him
Even Harry gets guilted for 'not being like his father' when he doesn't want to do something 'fun' needlessly risky. It's plainly a manipulative and mean thing to say to a child and an orphan.
Snape...
Snape who is targeted, insulted and nearly killed.
âSnape?â said Black harshly, taking his eyes off Scabbers for the first time in minutes and looking up at Lupin. âWhatâs Snape got to do with it?â
... before his very eyes is the traitor that has ruined and ended lives most precious to him, and the mere mention of Snape's name is enough to sweep his attention away from Peter. He did not hate Snape on James's behalf, stop it. T_T
What I do believe is that Snape is unkempt, poor, unlikable, and then had the audacity to peacock with the deatheater crowd and be a nuisance to the marauders. Snape was punching above his station. I believe the motivation to target Snape is a combination of this, his explosive (entertaining) reactions, and the knowledge that no one will stand up for him or protect him.
I believe it was arrogance and entitlement to put it quite plainly. He knows he's intelligent. He knows he's popular, handsome, rich, etc. And he feels entitled to pick on others to a certain degree if it's entertaining in the moment.
Sirius's trauma is absolutely valid. 'Hurt people hurt people,' is very true. He hasn't made excuses for himself or denied any of his wrongdoings. He's very insightful and self-reflective. But I also think he has deliberately, confidently, and carelessly hurt people when that suits him.
The following exchange is fairly incredible, and I think deserves more commentary and critique than it receives:
âI thoughtâŚyou were goingâŚto keep herâŚsafeâŚâ
âShe and James put their faith in the wrong person,â said Dumbledore. âRather like you, Severus. Werenât you hoping that Lord Voldemort would spare her?â
Snapeâs right to be devastated and to confront Dumbledore over his lack of action; he did anything for Dumbledore because he believed Dumbledore would save Lily. Â
And whatâs Dumbledoreâs response? Â
No admission of guilt.
No apology.
Instead, Dumbledore deflects, and seemingly blames Pettigrew and Voldemort.
And yes, Voldemort cast the killing curse whilst Pettigrew provided the weakness for Voldemort to exploit.
But really, itâs an incredible response. As head of the Order, Dumbledore had the power to insist that he was Secret KeeperâŚand that wouldâve kept the Potters safe.Â
This isnât even credibly presented as an option in the books - itâs as if Dumbledore shrugged and said, âYes, some naive 21 year olds wanted to trust their ratty friend, and what could I - a powerful, impressive, war hero of a wizard who is in charge of the Order - do to stop them?â
But most of all, Dumbledore deliberately twists events to absolve himself of blame. Â Sure, Snape did go to Voldemort to request that Lily be spared.
(âŚincidentally for me, one of the most interesting pieces in the books is that Voldemort DID attempt to spare Lily, but Snape hadnât truly trusted that he would. I could write an essay on that juxtaposition alone.)
But the point is, Snape didnât put his faith in Voldemort; he clearly wasnât convinced that Voldemort would spare her, which is why he came to Dumbledore.
Thus, Dumbledoreâs response is ridiculous. Â
âShe and James put their faith in the wrong person,â said Dumbledore. âRather like you, Severus. Werenât you hoping that Lord Voldemort would spare her?â
When in fact, Snape did no such thing. Â He had no faith in Voldemort, and he was so desperate for Dumbledoreâs assistance, he offered Dumbledore anything in return for Lilyâs safety.
Snape did put his faith in the wrong person. But that person wasnât Voldemort.
So the best bit of this whole exchange?
Itâs the fact that Dumbledore doesnât actually say, âYeah, it was definitely Pettigrew and Voldemort.âÂ
What he actually says is that Lily, James and Snape all put their faith in the wrong person.
âŚand then he casually mentions that Snape had hoped Voldemort would do the right thing and spare Lily.
Which makes this an incredibly intelligent, and wonderfully deft comment by Dumbledore - because it makes the reader see something entirely different to what he said.
âI thoughtâŚyou were goingâŚto keep herâŚsafeâŚâ
âShe and James put their faith in the wrong person,â said Dumbledore. âRather like you, Severus.â
Lily, James and Snape all put their faith into Dumbledore.Â
And Dumbledore had no intention of sparing the Potters, because his only hope of defeating Voldemort was if the prophecy was fulfilled.
The inconvenient truth is that Dumbledore wasnât about to let a little thing like Lily and Jamesâ lives get in the way of the emergence of âthe Chosen Oneâ.
I see many Snape Stans (I dislike Snape but I see why he turned out the way he did) saying James sexually assaulted him, especially on TikTok, when itâs not the truth at all, we donât know if he ever actually took off his pants because and it wasnât his fault that Snape wasnât wearing any trousers. While he did bully him he never sexually assaulted him, and so many people are now saying this and Iâm just flabbergasted, why did no one read the books? Why does everyone get their informations off TikTok and Twitter?
I don't really like this topic, to be honest. But here's how I perceive it.
1. In the canon, as far as I remember, it wasn't even implied that wizards wore trousers under their robes. They all just wore their underwear. And Lupin says:
"Oh, that one had a great vogue during my time at Hogwarts," said Lupin reminiscently. "There were a few months in my fifth year when you couldnât move for being hoisted into the air by your ankle."
"Yes," he said, "but he wasn't the only one. As I say, it was very popular. . . . You know how these spells come and go. . . ."
So Snape not only created this spell himself, but it also became popular at school. So many students were hanging upside down, showing off their underwear.
From this, we can infer that wizards perceived it slightly differently than we do now, and even than Harry. It was "fun" bullying, but nothing more. Even Lupin himself sounds like he's justifying it, although he probably got hung upside down too ("There were a few months in my fifth year when you couldnât move for being hoisted into the air by your ankle.").
2. We don't know for sure if James ended up taking Snape's pants off. Logically speaking, JKR simply didn't describe it, assuming that he did. Given the time the book was written, she probably didn't intend to invest it with such a horrible meaning. This all happens in the 70s in the WW. For our time, of course, it's SA. And that's awful. But the perception of that time could leave its mark. For example, when I was in school, many things that are now considered "awful" were seen as "not so bad". Those who did those awful things back then didn't even really understand how awful their actions truly were. Society evolves and we increasingly respect people's personal psychological and physical boundaries. What we didn't perceive as SA back then is considered SA today. A simple example you've probably seen in movies, spanking children was considered normal and right. That's how society raised those people. Surely today those same people wouldn't spank their children, because they would understand it's bad.
So it's likely that nobody at school perceived this action as SA. Moreover, James always played to the crowd. And if he really, according to the author's intention, took Snape's pants off, and the whole school saw it as normal, and didn't start looking at James with disgust... it raises big questions for the school students, doesn't it? If my friend did this today, he wouldn't be my friend anymore. Most people would look at such a person with disgust. But James's popularity didn't diminish at all.
This brings us back to the fact that nobody back then saw it as worse than bullying. So the society of that time hadn't yet formed enough understanding of what SA was and how bad it was to expose someone else's genitals. So James didn't fully understand either how awful it was, much more awful than pink bubbles out of your mouth or doubling someone's head in size. So for them it was all on the same level â taking someone's pants off or making them hang upside down or doubling their head in size.
I'm not justifying it, but the wizarding world is pretty harsh. Neville was thrown out of a window, Harry almost killed Draco, Fred and George literally made a kid disappear for a week, and Hermione kept Rita Skeeter captive in a jar for over a month. All of this is awful, but the wizarding world operates by different moral standards.
If judged in terms of our morality, there are almost no morally pure characters in these books.
I especially don't understand Snape stans (I mean I like Snape, but I donât understand their logic). In terms of our morality, both Snape and James deserve to be punished. Snape would have got a much bigger sentence for joining and helping a terrorist organisation. What are Snape stans trying to prove? That Snape was better? No, he wasn't. They're all arseholes in terms of the muggle world of 2024.
This makes sense as to why the marauders seem immune to criticism in the books, but I feel like we are going in circles a bit.
Of all things, I've never heard Snape stans argue that Snape was a perfect blameless victim. James's assault is brought up to stress that, just because Snape was an asshole, James's actions are no less disturbing. Let alone justify what happened because Snape was hanging around deatheaters then or a bully later himself.
Especially since the sole motivator seems to be that Sirius was slightly bored, there's no other words to describe what happens next as straight-up assault.
I do agree with the post. The marauders actions should be taken into context. But it does get frustrating that 'Snape was also bad' needs to be in every third sentence to remind the reader that noone is arguing the opposite.
And,, yeah taking Snape's underwear off isn't explicitly written into the book, but also, it's literally a children's book. JK can't write that either way.
okay so like james really lied to lily about no longer bullying snape. lily, the woman he was ready to die for. no, the woman he was ready to die for a small chance that she might live. he was ready to betray someone he loved that much just because he couldn't keep himself away from snape (other than bullying, they don't have anything else, so if he stopped bullying snape he'd probably never see him again). You can take this as him being a piece of shit morally, or extremely gay, i prefer both. like i never got the jeverus appeal but goddamn i kinda get it rn.
I'm so sorry, but I gotta jump in, cause that's what I'm sayingggg! What makes it even worse is that he was literally headboy!
So
A: it's their final year and now he really needs to work for his grades, because they count more than ever and his dream job is one of the most demanding ones.
B: he has headboy duties amidst suffocatingly high tensions due to the threat of Voldemort and his deatheaters.
C: Moony's transformations haven't stopped or slowed down, so the marauders have that going on each month.
D: this is his chance to impress his dream girl that he has been pining over for years, so he has to be in topform around her at all times. Which means not only on dates, but in all their shared classes, as well as their shared time as headboy and headgirl.
E: STILL MAKES TIME to discreetly sneak hexes back at Snape when he can literally just dock house points and put him in detention!
It screams 'I want his attention' so loudly.
And,, like, I can't help but notice, but Snape's invented spells have such a sense of boyish mischief and humor. Elongated toenails, being flipped upside down, an invisible mighty sword, unsupported flight. In the books, his verbal jabs are (regrettably) hilarious.
It must've been actually so fun to duel him if you can keep up. He's inventive, reactive and has nerves of freaking steel. Not to mention he's a prideful and capable asshole, so you don't need to feel bad for him for too long.
I don't think people often realize that Snape was probably stalked by the marauders. Like, they created a superb tool that showed you every movement of every single person in the school. Just imagine how easy it was for them to see what Snape was doing at any given moment of the day and harass him. Like maybe he went to a certain room to feel safe and bam! there they were with their wands drawn ready to make his day worse. Imagine having no privacy AT ALL because there's someone who always knows where you are and where you're headed. Imagine trying to run away from your bullies only to find them right in front of you when you least expect them. Imagine having nowhere to hide. Lord, his school days must have been terrifying.
If you wanna hate the marauders, then for sure imagine them however you like.
It makes more sense to me that the marauders map was invented for the purpose of sneaking out of the castle undetected and discovering/mapping out all the different secret passages.
Lupin even told Harry how James would've been dissapointed if his son didn't discover al these hidden rooms and passageways and whatnot, so we know its something he takes great pride and joy in.
Plus, it can be argued Snape did far more stalking and invading their privacy than the other way around. Sirius went to extremes in order to scare off Snape with the shrieking shack incident cause he was so exasperated with Snape nosing into their business. Disclaimer: not to say he was right to.
Lily even berated Snape for going out of his way to stalk and follow the marauders around, which he himself confirmed that he did it in an effort to get them in trouble and ruin their image/standing with their peers and teachers. Going so far as to break rules himself and even risking his life.
Look yeah, the marauders were self-admitted assholes, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were single mindedly out to torment Snape.
Yes Snape was a victim, but that doesn't mean he was a complete innocent bystander at all times and did nothing ever to antagonise these guys.
Hot take: the real reason the 3rd hokage teamed up Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi is so Sasuke would master his sharingan and take control of Kurama.
There was never any expectation for Naruto to control the nine tails chakra, or they would have spent some time training or preparing him before Naruto (by sheer coincidence and through his own insistance, cause his teacher was prioritizing Sasuke) stumbled onto Jiraiya.
- Naruto only finding out he's a Jinchuriki by complete accident, cause the Hokage forbade anyone to tell him
- Naruto finding out in a totally unforseen event by his father that Kurama being placed in him was supposed to make him a hero, and not as a curse or punishment like he was always lead to believe
Naruto was only ever meant to be the vessel. Should he lose the reigns on Kurama or not cooperate with the leaf, then Sasuke can just take over.
Kakashi was the only one who could teach Sasuke how to use the sharingan, which is why he was specifically assigned to this team.
Even hotter take: Itachi explicitly instructed Sasuke to kill his best friend in order to activate the mangekyou sharingan and face him. Which would have inevitably been one of Sasuke's teammates, as this boy was left with nothing else.
The third hokage (Danzo and the elders by proxy, cause the old man can't make a decision by himself clearly) definitely knows this. He definitely knows how the sharingan works and how it elevates through extreme emotion, more often by killing a loved one.
Naruto was set up like a pig for slaughter. If it wasn't for Sasuke himself refusing to follow in his brother's footsteps and removing himself from the influence of the leaf village, that would have been the path we ended up facing. If it wasn't for Jiraiya, Naruto would never have begun to access his or Kurama's chakra and just ended up swallowed up by it when he inevitably and unknowingly lost control like with Haku. If it wasn't for Tsunade banging on desks and vouching for Naruto, he would've been locked inside the leaf out of 'protection' from the Akatsuki. If it wasn't for Naruto proving his worth and proving himself indispensible it absolutely would've been Danzo taking over Sasuke's place in controling the nine-tails as soon as his eyes opened.
âHeâs the one person that, more than anyone else accepted me and my existence. Sasuke is my friend... He represents the bonds that I waited so long to receive.â
origamiaround
theartofmadeline
annaxmalina
gummygunk
germansingergirl
yousharknotpass
andulkaphoto
