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I love being the type of Severus stan that defends him while not justifying the bad things he did 🥰 Because ignoring and justifying being a death eater and his treatment of the students is mischaracterizing and dare i say underwhelming his role of a twist hero

The point of his character is that you're not SUPPOSED to like him until you finally put the pieces together and realize he's the good guy. The point of his character is to acknowledge his wrongs as much as his rights and love him for that. For his growth and development.

I love him so much. I love his flaws and I love how he grew from his past.

I feel like too many Snape apologists keep forgetting that he is a flawed character and that his traumas don't excuse or justify his past. I was one of those Snape apologists who treated him like a saint, but then the thing is- if he's a saint then how are you supposed to enjoy his complexity?

gravitytrips

REAL real

it never clicked in my brain that that’s what he is - a twist Hero. Because you only ever see that applied to a twist villain. In fact, in all the media I’ve consumed, Snape is probably the only twist hero I’ve ever seen. Not a bad guy that has character development over the series and turns out good by the end. A guy that you hated right along with the main character up until it was suddenly revealed that he was working WITH the mf all along. And then the pieces all fall into place.

I love him forever, and his horrendous actions are part of him. Without the terrible things he did in the past, he would not be the same character that he is today.

And this is the problem this fandom generally has: a lack of media literacy. With that, you’re basically confirming that if Severus Snape is the only “twist hero” this person has ever seen, then their level doesn’t go beyond Disney Channel because right now there are tons of shows with supposedly heroic characters who are morally complex and run circles around that kind of duality. I mean, The Boys is literally airing right now Mariana, what are you even talking about? Some of you need to stop consuming kids’ content and start engaging with adult fiction, because your perspective is extremely limited due to a lack of general cultural exposure, honestly.

For these people “horrendous actions” means being 17 and getting involved in a terrorist cult. I don’t know, if they ever watch Narcos they’ll probably have an aneurysm or something. Don’t even watch Breaking Bad, you might have twelve heart attacks in a row from the “horrendous actions” of the characters. It’s like talking to fucking Donald Duck when those people talks about morality.

There's nothing wrong with analyzing and enjoying 'kids' media. Even they have twist heroes as well. So what if Severus is the only twist hero someone's seen? Thats fine! I'm all for adding to the conversation and seeing people's side of things but we're talking about Harry Potter, not The Boys (which I am currently watching) or Breaking bad. Telling people to grow up isn't adding anything. People have different perceptions of 'horrendous actions' and it aint your job to decide whats horrendous and whats not. OBVIOUSLY there's worse characters who have done worse things but this conversation isn't about that. Let people analyze what they want to analyze. Adult, kids or young adult doesn't matter. There's complex characters EVERYWHERE not just in adult media and the point of media literacy is to approach the media you consume with MORE than just that what's on face value. The media people consume isn't the problem. Its how people consume it.

Thinking that a 17-year-old joining a terrorist cult because they see it as the only way to become something in life is not a horrendous act, it’s a social tragedy. A tragedy that affects tens of thousands of children and teenagers around the world who end up in gangs and guerrilla groups because those are the places where they’re made to feel useful and are promised a future they’ve never been able to see for themselves. If, as a functional, well-educated adult, you really think a case like that is the teenager’s responsibility rather than the responsibility of those who failed them, and you think that understanding how they got there is the same as excusing it, then maybe you should re-examine that classism, because you’re missing a lot of Marxist sociology and theory in general.

I love him so much. I love his flaws and I love how he grew from his past.

It’s your moral point of view if you think it’s terrible that a kid in certain socioeconomic conditions ends up falling victim to certain groups—that’s not mine. And that’s not about justifying anything; it’s about putting things into perspective. I’m not going to blame a kid with no resources for trying to survive however they can. I don’t do that in the real world with people who’ve been in prison for far worse things, so I’m certainly not going to do it over a character in a fantasy book series.

But I find that supposed moral superiority some of you have really out of place, the kind where you go, “I love Snape but I don’t deny the bad things he did.” I don’t know, Mariana, but HONESTLY, I don’t think he did anything wrong. A lot of characters i love and enjoy a lot did very very terrible things, Severus is an angel if you compare.

By the way, a character can be a saint and still be complex. That’s not the case with Snape, because he wasn’t a saint, but goodness or badness has nothing to do with a character’s complexity, what matters is their construction, their arc, their depth, and their conflict. Thinking that a “good” character automatically equals a flat character says quite a lot—and nothing good—about your understanding of character analysis.

If thats what you think then go ahead. Just because I believe that joining a supremist group (even for protection) isn't a good thing because it essentially harmed an entire group of innocent people doesn't mean I don't understand why he did it. You can do bad things with the best intentions.

Intention ≠ actions.

You may think he's a saint compared to other characters you've seen, sure. But I don't care about comparing him to other characters.

We clearly have different views on complexity and morality of characters and I won't engage any further with you. You can analyze my interpretations without attacking my character because you know nothing about my morals and nothing about me. I respect your points of view and what you had to add to the conversation. But what I don't tolerate is that you're implying my views are inferior to yours or like I'm stupid because you have more knowledge of media than I do, its disrespectful.

I'll be blocking you now because I have no interest going back and forth with you. Have a good day/night.

You’ve just been spoken to the way adults speak, you’re not being treated as less; that’s your perception, and your lack of self-esteem isn’t other people’s responsibility. If you’re going to make such broad, categorical statements about a fandom in public, you’re opening yourself up to people responding. No, not everyone thinks what Severus did was such a big deal. You do? Great, but then speak from your perspective and don’t judge or label others as apologists or as people who don’t understand the character. Because many people understand the character—maybe even better than you—and that’s precisely why they think he didn’t do anything wrong, or at least nothing worth condemning.

lary-the-lizard

Don't call yourself a 'lefty' when you can't even think level headedly about a fictional character in poverty and only woobify the rich ones like regulus black lol

Welcome to my dictatorship where I force everyone to hate Snape and woobify Regulus Black inside their affordable if not free houses while healthcare is free and being a rich is practically impossible and everyone has human rights and owning a gun is basically illegal and the death penalty is gone and every community decides how they manage their society and the homeless are given somewhere to live and the care they need and prisons were eliminated and social safety nets are strong and checks and balances are used daily to make sure politicians can’t do evil shit and people of color and queer people are well represented in law and abortion is an understood method of medical treatment and hate crime is properly addressed and children have voice in politics disabled people are represented in politics and given the resources they need to live comfortably and artists have enough financial security to create and mental health is valued just as much as physical health because they’re actually the same thing and basically what the fuck do you think being a leftist fucking is?

De izquierdas pero no demasiado no sea que tenga que asumir que es un puto clasista de cojones.

You’re a classist who made classist and ableist comments have some decency at least.

Of course, after we told this person several things, like, for example, that Severus Snape wasn’t an incel, because an incel is basically a guy who hates women, insults them online, and says he won’t sleep with them because he’s a misogynist and because as far as I know, in canon, Snape never hates women, is never resentful toward the female gender, and never has a bad relationship with women. In fact, the characters he has the most cordial or at least decent relationships with are women, and at no point does he say he’s going to stop sleeping with women because one of them rejected him. That just never happens.

So I don’t know what this person thinks an incel is, maybe to them it just means a man who respects your decisions, because let’s remember that when Lily tells him she doesn’t want anything to do with him anymore, Snape accepts it and leaves her alone. So maybe this person thinks incels are just men who respect boundaries.

On top of that, besides telling them it’s pretty bad to just make things up like that, it’s also pretty shitty to talk about someone’s personal hygiene as an insult, because there can be many reasons why someone struggles with hygiene. For example, they might come from an environment where they weren’t taught good habits because there weren’t resources like Snape, who is canonically poor. People seem to forget that Snape is canonically poor and even wore women’s clothing because it was his mother’s and they had nothing else. It could also be due to mental health issues. And it’s pretty ironic, because this person talks a lot on their Tumblr about mental health and how important it is. Sure, but then you go and use poor hygiene as an insult, when you should know that people with mental health issues or neurodivergence often neglect hygiene during episodes.

Anyway, after pointing all this out to them, and also telling them it’s a bit hypocritical to claim they care about queer issues while basically just taking attractive rich boys and turning them into twinks so they can hook up with each other, and after pointing out how cynical and hypocritical that is we ended up saying that the way they expressed themselves was pretty sad. And after all that, instead of responding to the arguments from everyone involved, this person just blocked all of us, because clearly they had no arguments left.

The question I always have about these people—the ones who show up on a post and start saying all this nonsense—is: why do they block afterwards? Like, I’m the first one to reblog something and tell the person who wrote it that what they said is complete bullshit and that they can fuck off. But I never, ever block anyone. Because if I go looking for a fight, I deal with the consequences.

So my question is: why do all these people, who are so convinced that Severus Snape is terrible and irredeemable, that he can’t be softened or interpreted as queer or turned into a “twink” or a good person—but at the same time are totally fine taking all the fanatical Death Eaters of his generation and turning them into characters straight out of Euphoria—why do they jump in and then run away? Why don’t they stick around? Why don’t they have the guts? Seriously, if you’re not going to handle people responding to you, maybe just don’t say anything.

neptuneverypretty-deactivated20

Hi @lary-the-lizard

I'm a 100% sure that people who don't believe in wolfstar are flat earthers or something.

like OPEN UR EYES GUYS. READ STUFF.

No, we’re just people who’ve read the books and are over 12 which is why we know that’s the lamest, most boring, virgin-coded ship that exists. You’re welcome, my love.

em0tionallymotionsick

(almost) every wolfstar post i see could also apply to rosekiller and it takes everything in me to not reblog all of them and say "omg so rosekiller"

WOLFSTAR AND ROSEKILLER ARE SOOOO VARIANTS OF EACHOTHER WHY ARENT MORE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS

What that shows is how little imagination you have, because basically all your crack!ships are the same and the only thing that changes is how you style their hair and clothes. At the end of the day you don’t even have characters, you’ve got Sims with no personality that you swap around depending on whatever aesthetic suits you.

You’ve got to have some serious nerve and zero shame to have headcanons about Pandora-whatever, who nobody cares about, or Alice-whatever, and not have a single mention of Severus Snape on your blog when he’s not only the main character of the Marauders era, but the entire Marauders lore exists because of him. I mean, you can bash him if you want, but basically ignoring an entire fandom is pretty shitty, yeah.

#we don’t talk enugh about this #and it’s a fucking problem #because you se those supposed marauders fan’s blogs #and they have posts even for the fucking poppy pomfrey #and zero snape mentions #like what the fuck dude #james potter #sirius black #remus lupin #peter pettigrew

The first comment had to obviously be someone confirming exactly what I’m saying, it never fails.

#it’s even embarassing at this point #marauders #marauders fandom #marauders era #marauders fans #severus snape #sirius black #james potter #lily evans #remus lupin

Snape ruins the fun for people in the Marauders fandom, because with him in the picture they actually have to acknowledge what real problems look like, and they can’t keep pretending that their rich blorbos with first-world problems are these poor little puppies they try to frame them as. Which again brings us to the discourse about classism and aporophobia in that fandom, which is blatant.

Every time I see people making headcanons even for Dolores Umbridge but not for Snape, I just think they’re simply classist, and that’s it.

#queued post

#severus snape #pro severus snape #pro snape #severus snape defense #james potter #severus snape fandom #harry potter #sirius black #lily evans #marauders

i could hear you talk about sirius all day, you are so insightful about him and it’s just very interesting to hear! it does make me sad when people erase the traits and dynamics that basically define him? fanon sirius is genuinely nothing compared to the compelling mess he is canonically.

Okay, this is gonna be so fucking long lmao.

The thing with Sirius is that, on one hand, I’m not going to talk about fandom Sirius, because fandom Sirius, for me, isn’t really Sirius Black. What they’ve done with him is basically a teenage fantasy from some low-budget Netflix-style series for Gen Z. So I don’t consider that to be Sirius Black. The Sirius Black who’s 1.70 m, skinny, wears crop tops, and acts like a 2010 Justin Bieber fangirl, that’s not Sirius Black, that’s something they invented, it doesn’t fit canon.

So I’m going to focus on canon Sirius, the Sirius Black in the books. Even people who claim to be fans of canon Sirius, who say all their theories, metas, and headcanons are based on the real Sirius—the one we see in the books—I still deeply disagree with what they say. They have a very idealized idea of him. Even fans of canon Sirius, who are aware of his flaws, still see him as the classic romantic rebel: the teen who grows up in a very conservative, right-wing family, rebels against the family’s establishment and the status quo, leaves home, gets a motorcycle, seeks freedom, joins a countercultural or political movement, fights for liberty and justice, basically the archetype rebel fantasy. And people forget that Sirius isn’t interesting because of that.

Sirius isn’t interesting because he’s the archetypal rebellious teen who rejects his conservative parents and seeks freedom. He’s interesting —and tragic— because, no matter how hard he tries not to resemble his family, no matter how much he tries to do the opposite of what his family would do, and no matter how much he positions himself at the polar opposite of his family’s ideology, he ends up reproducing the exact same archetypes he was taught. You can’t just run away from your family and be free. If you want to truly unlearn all the toxic dynamics, behaviors, and ways of reacting instilled by your family, you have to work on yourself. And the first step is accepting that you are your parents’ child, a product of where you grew up.

Sirius constantly demonstrates this. He treats Severus terribly, just as Bellatrix might. What’s the difference between Bellatrix and Sirius? Bellatrix doesn’t try to kill Severus, but her contempt and lack of respect toward him is exactly the same as Sirius’s. Her disrespect toward house-elves is the same as Sirius’s toward Kreacher. The ferocity with which Bellatrix despises “the other”—whether political enemy or personal adversary—is mirrored in how Sirius despises others in his social circle. He’s a reflection of his family and upbringing.

Yes, he might exist on a different political spectrum, which is why people find him “cool,” but all the attitudes he learned from his mother, he never deconstructed. He’s still classist. He knows that despising Muggle-borns is wrong, so he redirects his discrimination toward other targets acceptable in his social environment. But he hasn’t actually worked on himself. The years of therapy required for someone raised in Sirius’s environment to deconstruct all those attitudes would be enormous. That’s a huge part of his tragedy.

He sees himself as a hero. He has a big image of himself, he sees himself as a rock star in his youth, pre-Azkaban, because leaving the family wasn’t just an act; it was a way to defy his mother. His whole problem with his family comes from his relationship with his mother. At his core, he isn’t rebelling against family ideals, he’s rebelling against his mother’s ideals. He has a toxic, dysfunctional dependence on her, which resonates later when he’s locked in the family house for a year, drinking in her room. Why her room and not any other? There must have been empty rooms, but he chooses hers, and even imagines a hippo in there destroying things while he drinks and cries.

His mother’s authority haunts him his entire life. He tries not to be like her, but he ends up behaving similarly. She would behave this way toward a muggle, he behaves that way toward other people. Many people miss this, and as a result, they overlook the most interesting aspect of his character. I wouldn’t call him a hypocrite, because he isn’t aware of it. He thinks he’s doing everything right, but in reality, he’s just a rich kid from a very conservative family, raised to believe he’s superior, where violence and even sadism were normalized, and Sirius internalizes that.

Normalizing a near-homicidal attack on a classmate just because he dislikes them? Normalized violence. Constantly assaulting students at school? Normalized violence and sadism, clearly inherited from his family. Many of his behaviors are reflections of the Black family’s attitudes. He’s on a different political spectrum, but the thing is, not understanding that aspect of Sirius seems to me like leaving out a huge part of his character, and I think it’s a waste of hours and hours of analysis on a character, starting from a premise that I consider wrong and very superficial, honestly. Because I think it’s way more interesting to analyze Sirius not as a victim of trauma just because his mommy yelled at him or hit him. First of all, we don’t even know that his mother hit him, there’s no evidence that Walburga was a physically abusive person. That’s totally a fandom invention. And also, we don’t have clear knowledge that he was abused in his home. What we know is that he and his mom had a very dysfunctional relationship.

To me, simply reducing Sirius to “he was abused at home, escaped, became a hero because his family was awful, they were all right-wing racists, rich aristocrats, horrible and evil” and that’s why we admire him— girl, why are people so basic? Why are people so naïve? Why are they so bland? Do you see what I mean? Why do people simplify the narrative so much?

You have a character with a toxic attachment to his maternal figure, which also shows in how he interacts with women in the series and how women perceive him. Remember that both Molly and Hermione judge him very harshly. Hermione is essentially Rowling’s voice in the narrative, and we know that for Rowling, Molly is the ideal mother who cares for her children. So narratively, Rowling is telling us, “This is what she thinks of Sirius.”

The fact that Bellatrix—a woman—is the one who kills him, and that the female figures he interacts with always have some conflict with him, fits perfectly with the theme of his problems with his mother. The fact that both he and his mother have such strong personalities aligns with why their confrontations were so intense and why he eventually leaves home. It also fits with his absolute rejection of everything social, ideological, and economic tied to his mother. But rejecting those things doesn’t mean he stops being her son, doesn’t mean he stops being part of his family, and doesn’t mean he ever worked on himself to deconstruct the attitudes he inherited during his childhood. Attitudes that are classist, violent, normalize problematic behavior, and ethically questionable.

It’s not that Sirius is irresponsible, it’s that he’s used to doing whatever he wants because he grew up in a family that believed they were above others. They could do whatever they wanted, however they wanted. This is also seen in Bellatrix. So discarding all these factors about Sirius takes away… a lot of what makes his character interesting.

I don’t usually talk about him much, because he’s not in my top 10 favorite characters to discuss (also don’t a problem to do anyways it’s interesting to analyze) but he’s a character I analyzed a lot back in the day because he reminded me of people I’ve known; people from extremely conservative, religiously strict, messed-up families. People from politically far-right families who rebelled against their parents by adopting a completely opposite ideology: leftist politics, unions, activism. I’ve been very involved in grassroots politics, not online politics, but in associations and field politics, and I’ve met many “Sirius Blacks” in real life. They had good intentions, but then you’d go to a bar with them and if the bartender was slow, they’d treat the bartender like trash, because that’s how they were raised to see service. Just like Sirius does with Kreacher: “service is service.”

I found that to be a fascinating reflection of how these kids from oppressive, conservative families behave: they rebel against their parents by adopting the opposite ideology, but without deconstructing the values they were taught, so they always end up being the same archetype. That’s what interested me the most.

So what surprises me about the fandom is that people rarely talk about this aspect of him. Even fans of canon Sirius don’t talk about this. And I don’t understand it, because to me, that’s the most interesting part of his character. You could analyze his relationship with his mother, which I also find super interesting. Honestly, men with mommy issues are fascinating to analyze, they’re basically a meme, a cliché, every single one. But I don’t know why the fandom doesn’t discuss these things more.

#queued post

#repost #my 12yo nephew is reading ootp #and yesterday he was talking to me about the book #and i was flipping through some parts of his book when this came to mind #i was kinda drunk after the dinner tho #lmao #worst influence ever #drunken aunt #sirius black #sirius orion black #sirius black meta

One of the things I find most fascinating is how much people ship Wolfstar, when—even though it’s true that canon shows Sirius constantly focused on men—those two men are James Potter, who he was basically glued to all day (they were practically conjoined twins; it’s canon they didn’t even separate to go to the bathroom, and if they were forced apart they’d basically FaceTime each other via magic mirror), and whom, 20 years later, he’s still yearning for and mourning 12 years on, to the point of confusing his son with him. And then there’s Severus Snape, who is basically his victim, and whom he canonically observes obsessively like PREY and even 20 years later, every time he shows up, Sirius feels this overwhelming urge, this uncontrollable impulse, to say something to provoke him into an argument, because apparently almost coming to blows with him gives him a massive dopamine hit.

So, do we accept that Sirius is very prone to relationships with a certain homoerotic subtext? Absolutely, like, yes. In fact, aside from Lily (which makes sense because she’s James’s girlfriend, and that gives her a kind of status validated by a man), he clashes constantly with most women he interacts with, especially when they try to exercise authority over him. For example, Molly can be annoying and overbearing, but she does have a point when she tries to call Sirius out on his behaviour, and he immediately gets defensive. Which isn’t random; Molly is a maternal figure, and Sirius hates his mother and rejects that kind of authority as a personal challenge. Hermione doesn’t confront him directly, but she does through Harry, and Bellatrix is the one who ultimately kills him. With men, he seems to have better relationships even at his worst moments; more understanding, and more awareness of male authority figures. If we leave Peter aside for obvious reasons, the only one he refuses to acknowledge as someone worthy of respect is Snape, who, ironically, tends to have a bigger issue with male figures (since they were the source of his trauma and the violence he endured) than with women, with whom he generally has more stable or at least more cordial relationships. Which reinforces that dynamic between the two of them as constant mirrors of each other under inverted circumstances, a dynamic that, in my opinion, the fandom barely explores.

But going back to the point: yes, Sirius lends himself to dynamics with strong homoerotic subtext in general, but he’s also an extremely obsessive and neurotic person, especially after Azkaban. His attachments, whether functional or dysfunctional, are very much rooted in obsession. He’s obsessed with James (and obsession isn’t necessarily negative, people often give it that connotation in a reductive way, but it’s common in people with neurotic traits and isn’t inherently bad), and his entire teenage world revolves around him to the point that he runs away and lives with James’s family for years. That obsession expands to everything connected to James: he becomes close to Lily by association, and later pours all that attachment into Harry, whom he struggles to separate from his father.

He’s obsessed with proving he’s not like his family, and his whole personality is built around being and doing everything his mother would have hated, almost to the point of feeling performative, because he still shows unaddressed Black family traits, especially in how he treats people socially “beneath” him. He has a dysfunctional, almost Oedipal fixation on his mother, reflected in how—despite having a huge house with plenty of rooms, including his own—he chooses to lock himself in her bedroom, the one he supposedly hates, haunted for a year by her screaming portrait like a constant echo he tries to escape but keeps physically returning to.

And he has an unhealthy obsession with Severus, whom he continues to pursue metaphorically even 20 years after bullying him and literally chasing him like a predator, almost getting him killed because he thought it would be funny.

The thing is, Sirius never shows any obsession whatsoever with Remus Lupin, quite the opposite. For a character so driven by pathos, impulses, and obsessions, people tend to ship him with someone he barely pays attention to, someone he never sees as an object of interest (positive or negative), but rather as a tool to reach his actual goals. Remus is collateral in Sirius’s life, always secondary. He was an excuse to act out once a month and go on adventures WITH JAMES. A tool to hurt SNAPE. And only becomes part of his emotional support circle when he has no one else left, when he’s trapped in his parents’ house and everyone else is dead. And even then, during that time, if he’s not constantly thinking about Harry, or obsessively arguing with his mother’s portrait, or drinking in her bedroom remembering his dead best friend/homoerotic obsession, all his attention goes to the moments when Snape shows up and he can take a jab at him like he’s back to being the king of rebellious schoolboys in 1976.

So I find it pretty ironic—and honestly funny—that Sirius Black’s most popular ship is with the one character he consistently treats like a background extra, who sparks absolutely no obsession or neurosis in him, when Sirius is defined precisely by his visceral emotional intensity. And when I say Wolfstar feels like a ship for people with no taste, I say it because it basically reads as a ship for people who don’t seem to grasp that Sirius is a deeply dysfunctional character, with deeply dysfunctional attachments, constantly chasing bonds that give him dopamine, and the only thing Remus seems to inspire in him is the urge to take a nap.

harrypotter-black

Why are y'all sirius fans so damn allergic to any class based analysis lmao

It's probably because Sirius himself completely and utterly rejects his class/status. We never see him explicitly take advantage of it for his own benefit. When we see him in canon era (poa-ootp), he literally has nothing. No money, Azkaban/old clothes, no shelter (aside from Grimmauld that he hates). He's not some rich asshole persecuting the poor. His life post age 21 isn't privileged, it's tragic.

Pre-15, it's implied that his family isn't the best - verbal abuse at the least + favoritism from Kreacher who was a caretaker of sorts. Not all fans interpret Walburga that way. Personally idk if there's enough evidence to say if there was physical abuse, but the shit that Walburga yells makes it pretty clear and undeniable that there was verbal abuse and the household was a toxic situation for him, with all of them being blood purists. Either way any type of abuse - even verbal - is abuse. And for some reason the majority of people are allergic to understanding that rich women can abuse their rich sons just as poor fathers can abuse their poor sons, and both leave lasting effects.

Why are Snape stans so ready to dismiss how shitty Snape treats the Gryffindors - Hermione, Neville and Harry in particular as a 30+ year old man and adult in a position of authority, and so condemning with literally teenagers under 17?

How can yall just dismiss the 3 years he served Voldemort as him being "young/a child" - its very likely that he was murdering muggles/muggleborn students, or sitting by and watching others do it. As bad as the Maurader bullying was, being an adult death eater is a whole new level of worse.