For Midgar, Midgar, I left my one true love behind

Final Fantasy VII | Cloti ♥️

[flowerslightning]

Cloud Strife and his Mental Illness

or also known as Psychiatric Disorder

| 1. Memory | 2. Will update soon |

1. Memory Disorder

I may not be the psychologist u all hoping for. I’m still a student (a super broke one) but I’ve learned few things during my intern session at Psychiatric Department. It was one hell of a ride, but I enjoyed every moment with the doctors, nurses and patients. They weren’t kind, but not mean either. They were just.. Unique. And Cloud is the most unique character among the other FF protagonists

I’ve been wanting to share this post right after I wrote about the hero’s reaction to death event. But.. Im a coward ya know and this coward has around 8 more drafts that need to be shared with u guys. Anyways, Pls pardon my english and correct me if i’m wrong

This topic is kind of big. So, i’m just going to briefly go through things that relate with Cloud. I tried to make my words as simple as possible. These were based on facts, knowledge and my experiences

This will be a very long post + gif. Bear with me here 😂

The reason why Im talking about his MEMORY first instead of his PERSONALITY bcause it is his MEMORY that made Cloud so fucked up in his adult life

Abnormalities in Memories

Memory is affected in several kind of psychiatric disorder. Cloud was put inside the Mako tube for 4 yrs and was in catatonic phase for 1 yr. He had 4yrs total blank memory + more than half a year of cloudy memories. I mentioned it ’more than half’ bcause at the very last moment where Zack and him almost reached to Midgar, Cloud could remember a few scene with Zack (this was proven during AC).

Those that suffers from memory lost that caused by organic conditions usually affect recent memory more than remote memory. Some organic causes lead to amnesic syndrome in which short term memory is severly impaired but long term memory is retained

Sign symptoms of Amnesic Syndrome are : ●Recent memory severely impaired●Remote memory spared●Disorientation in time●Confabulation●Other cognitive functions preserved●. Im certain enough that Cloud had few of them during the time he met with Tifa at the train station. But he quickly snapped em out and created a false persona

If u ask me, did the mako poisoning gave any impact to his brain mechanism ? My answer is… PROBABLY YES? But other condition such as Cloud’s PTSD, Panic Disorder and Depression must also be counted in

Other terms that refer to abnormalities of memories include;

Anterograde Amnesia : Impairment of memories for event between ending of complete unconsciousness & restoration of full consciousness. It occurs after a period of unconsciousness

Retrograde Amnesia : Loss of memory for events after onset of unconsciousness

Deja vu : Recognition of events familiar when the person have surely never been encountered.

There are another bunch of terms but im not going to talk about it

About the Deja vu, there was a scene where Cloud got a headache upon seeing Aerith walked infront of him, he kinda like had a flashback of something. I’ve forgotten a lot of part in the OG, and idk if this was related with Deja vu or not ⇧⇧

For Cloud’s case, the onset of his unconsciousness would be the time where he fainted next to Zack at the Mako reactor during the Nibelheim incident. And the end of his unconsciousness was during the time they almost reached to Midgar. (Lets minus the part where he had 4yrs of total blank memories. I’m sure Cloud never knew he was in the Mako tube for years, not until someone finally explained it)

Its true that headache often occur to amnesic patients every time they remember something ’unpleasant’ . Some are mild, some can be severe. Some patients willingly to acknowledge the headache while some of them deny they’re having it (cough cough.. Cloud)

I even once witnessed a patient fainted right after she screaming about how hurt her head was’. That woman was first diagnosed with Amnesia, she was unable to recall any latest event that happened to her but she had the knowledge about things - eg, she learned how to bake cookies a day before her traumatic event (was confirmed by her brother). When asked, she’d no idea why she knew the recipe and she claimed she never bake cookies before. She later thought maybe she lived with her housemates that had sweet tooth, thus she knew how to bake it cuz she once watched them bake cookies (confirmed by her housemate, they never bake the cookies together. Was told by his brother, the woman bake cookies with someone else) - This is what we call as False Memory. Later when her memories started to come back, she then suffered from major depressive disorder [MDD] + post traumatic stress disorder [PTSD] and constant headaches (sometimes the pain felt really bad, sometimes the pain felt mild but the pain never left her)

Now, dont u think it was a wonder how that female patient knew the cookie recipe but she claimed to never bake one, only ’watched’ her housemate doing it. This happened bcause her psychological defence mechanism avoided her from remembering the ’baking cookies memory’ bcause it would then lead her to recall the traumatic event. Then how come she remembered the ‘recipe’ that may cause her distress but could not remember the entire event. Basically, bcause the brain tried to avoid being sad, thus it jingled up every possible events in order to avoid feeling that emotion. So every time the patient recalled something hurtful, thanks to the extreme emotions, she got herself a headache.

Idk if i put this in correct words. But that was what I understand based on my studies + experiences witnessing it

Lets relate with Cloud’s case. Cloud surely has Amnesia, and he probably has both. This is proven when a buddy of him knew him but Cloud couldnt remember his friend. This is Retrograde amnesia- he couldnt remember his military friend-. He had headache the moment his friend noticed him. And after loosing Zack, Cloud suffers from Anterograde amnesia + personality confusion

Have u ever wondered why Cloud was really knowledgeable about the Mako reactor, machine handle and stuff and why didnt he got headache when talking about it. It was bcause he had no specific emotions that could recall any hurtful scene and his false memory about being a SOLDIER helped him to avoid the headache. Kinda like “Well I’m a SOLDIER, ofc I know how this machine operates. I know all the things what infantrymen should know bcause im a SOLDIER” . He instead got headache when an infantryman mentioned to know him - why did that scene hurt? It might be bcause not being able to join SOLDIER was hurtful to him or he had some good memories during the military services as an infantryman that his SOLDIER memory tried to deny.

This part, where Cloud said about his sword “We (the buster sword and him) have been through a lot” caused him acute pain at the head bcause his brain recalling the emotion during the traumatic event (Loosing zack) and his SOLDIER memory was unable to deny it for him

False Memory

A scenario is true yet it is false. The recall of highly unpleasant events are sometimes blocked by psychological mechanism, in which we call it as ’repression’. Repression means exclusion from consciousness of impulses, emotions & memories that would otherwise cause distress. Like how I mentioned above, the brain is mixing up everything to avoid feeling sad- resulting to create a false memory. Unpleasant event for Cloud will be the death of Zack. But after a time, the repression reduces and recalls become possible, follows by minority of ‘recovered memories’ which are likely to be the true memories.

Cloud saying he was a SOLDIER, mistaking Zack’s position as his, is an example of Repression (not exactly a personality disorder). And because he had 'Mako Eyes’ and mentality of 16y/o, thus these lead him to create jerk-so-cool personality “I’m a SOLDIER. I must act cool and awesome”. For Cloud (during his age 16y/o) not being able to join SOLDIER was a shameful thing, followed by an event of loosing Zack infront of his eyes lead to traumatic event. So then, the last memory at Nibelheim, his psychological mechanism took Zack’s position purposely to avoid meeting with the emotions that would cause him distress

Cloud [Remake] able to recall few memories without any pain, eg the most prominent one will be the vow under the stars. But at one point, [in OG] he doubted if its true, not until Tifa came to fix him. There is also a scenario where Cloud suddenly remembered his mom, but he was wearing his SOLDIER attire. I do believe its a true memory. Look at his POV instead of the overall scenario. It may seems like Cloud was wearing SOLDIER outfit, but with Cloud’s POV, pretty sure he didnt remember what he was wearing at that time, but SE made him wearing SOLDIER outfit

Why did certain memories gave Cloud a headache while others didnt? - The same answer, it was his PSYCHOLOGICAL MECHANISM that played a big role here. His brain tried to avoid being sad/distress. If the memory was pleasant to him, he could remember them easily. A lot of time Cloud could recall his memory with Tifa, but there was two scenarios that gave him a headache, first, it was when Tifa said “I’m sick of this SHIT” at the Mako Reactor and the second was during the time Cloud saw Tifa kid’s figure at Sector 5 (I assumed he remembered the time he followed Tifa to the mountain and failed to save Tifa from falling down). These two scenarios highlight Cloud’s failure in protecting Tifa, thus giving him a headache resulted from his SOLDIER memory couldnt accept it. 

Cloud’s defense mechanism overall that helped him to avoid getting constant 24/7 headache, it was his SOLDIER memory that created half-fake events, but when certain painful memories that lead to distress hit him and his SOLDIER memory (psychological defence mechanism) could not deny the memory is true, Cloud would get a headache. 

Based on my judgement, I think Cloud’s case was very mild, and the reason why I’m saying this because Cloud was still able to connect with Tifa, his childhood friend that have met with Zack and later she would be the one that helped with Cloud’s memory. Tifa was like the anchor of everything for him. Tifa introduced him to Avalanche, thus it made Cloud to create a ‘SOLDIER personality’, kinda like “Hey, I remembered that I’ve promised to become a SOLDIER to Tifa and I have mako eyes, so I must have SOLDIER attitude”, though his true-self always emerged around Tifa. Bcause of her, Cloud able to came back in action. 

I hope u guys were able to comprehend my words here. English is not my native language so there were bunch of grammar mistake here and there. Sorry about that. If u have anything ure curious with, feel free to give me a private message.

I REACHED TUMBLR LIMIT IMAGES AGAIN !!!

Well gotta wait for the NEXT POST ! For the next one, I’ll be talking about the misconception people had to Cloud’s mind

[silver-wield]

Excellent analysis! My only note would be Cloud’s wearing Zack’s uniform in the dream because that’s what he thinks a soldier would wear. In reality he was in the infantry outfit when he saw his mom and he was hiding from Tifa so she wouldn’t know he didn’t keep his promise. The rest is spot on 👍👏👏👏

[silver-wield]

(Anon who asked question about if Cloud “fans” who hate Tifa exist) Like there’s no way that Cloud would’ve been able to fight and defeat Sephiroth and save the world if it weren’t for Tifa’s help during her and Cloud’s trip in his mind/subconscious!!! He was severely mentally unstable and sick in the head (through no fault of his own yeah) like there’s just no way he would’ve been able to defeat Sephiroth and stop him from blowing the planet up like a Taco Bell toilet if Tifa never helped him!

If you hate Tifa then you're admitting you hate the plot because she's necessary to the plot.

No Tifa plot:

Cloud doesn't fall off Mt Nibel and long to become stronger. Cloud doesn't leave Nibelheim and join Shinra. Cloud doesn't meet Zack and Sephiroth and see Nibelheim burn down. Cloud doesn't kill Sephiroth.

Sephiroth murders Cloud along with everyone else in Nibelheim cause his character arc doesn't revolve around Cloud's promise to Tifa.

Okay?

Let's say Cloud does decide to become a soldier cause, as dumdums say, he "wants to impress the townspeople" (even though he literally says in the lifestream scene the only person he wanted to notice him is Tifa)

Cloud joins Shinra and doesn't make soldier.

Cloud does meet Zack and Sephiroth and return to Nibelheim.

Sephiroth murders Cloud at the reactor.

Why? Because the reason for Cloud's increase in strength is born from the rage of losing his mom, town and seeing Tifa dying in front of him. It's the failure of keeping his promise to her.

Okay?

Want more? Let's say everything that happens in Nibelheim is negligible (HA!!)

Zack gets the comatose Cloud to Midgar and dies.

Cloud makes it to the station where he's ignored by passers-by.

Cloud never wakes from his mako state and dies.

Why? Because Tifa's the one who brought him out of it.

Let's say Cloud wakes on his own.

Cloud works as a robotic merc forever until Sephiroth uses Jenova to summon him to the temple of the Ancients to get the black materia. Cloud dies getting it.

I could keep going, but it's pointless. Without Tifa the entire plot falls apart. Zack’s contribution is smaller, but also a vital part of the story. Without Zack, Cloud stays in a tank being an experiment, but without Tifa there's no story.

And to compare, if you take Aerith out, the team would still chase Sephiroth cause he's summoning Cloud to the crater. Marlene would die in the plate collapse and holy wouldn't be summoned, so meteor would still wipe out the planet, but Cloud and Tifa's story remains unchanged.

This is why the devs say Aerith's the heroine of the overarching story and Tifa's the heroine of the intimate story.

[ivanahum9al0t]

Filler Couples in FF7R

Hi, Tumblr!

(Warning: LTD Fuckery. Get lost if you can’t stand shipping-talk.)

I have seen a lot of commentary regarding the most recent content being released for FF7R, both official & unofficial. The most bold and aggravating comments come from the shipping fandoms, of course. The Clerith fandom, in particular, are going menacingly hard - whether they’re gloating over some scenes or downright downplaying others, their comments and feelings regarding the game seem to fluctuate the hardest out of everyone else’s.

It’s a literal emotional rollercoaster reading their opinions. Quite fascinating. It ranges from thinking that Cloud’s English VA is far too crude towards Aerith to them being sure that Cloud and Aerith had a valiant hero & heroine moment at the end of the game. Interesting. 

But I would like to gage in on one of many aspects that they’ve been raving about: they seem to think that all ships BUT Clerith are simple fan service. They’re insisting that Clerith is going to be the flagship pairing, and that the developers/creators are using Clessie (Cloud x Jessie) and Cloti (Cloud x Tifa) as a fan service component. Although they may be using this technique, I think they have the flagship pairing incorrect.

After studying the game’s romance interactions, it became more and more obvious that Cloud and Aerith have extremely similar “romantic” scenes as Cloud and Jessie. Even more interesting is that these scenes are just as shallow, cliche, corny, and mundane. Whereas Cloud and Tifa’s scenes are always much more deep, thoughtful, and somehow always bring up their tragic past. Cloud and Tifa have an apparent neuronal & emotional link that literally no other character could replace nor understand.

Of course, to back up my statement, I do have SEVERAL instances where Cloud and Jessie have almost IDENTICAL scenes as Cloud and Aerith. If Cloud and Aerith were the intended romantic couple that will be slowly “burned” into the game’s plot, why do they have the same generic, light-hearted, bantered flirting as Cloud and Jessie? Again, it’s rather interesting. Personally, I don’t think it makes sense to follow this logic, but to each their own! 

But without further ado, here are the interactions! I won’t go into details since the body language/dialogue literally do all of the work:

—

Clessie Interaction 1:

Clerith Interaction 1:

—

Clessie Interaction 2:

Clerith Interaction 2:

—

Clessie Interaction 3:

Clerith Interaction 3:

(BONUS Clessie Moment):

—

Clessie Interaction 4 (Both exceptionally curious about Tifa’s role):

Clerith Interaction 4:

—

Clessie Interaction 5:

Clerith Interaction 5:

—

Clessie Interaction 6(Ft. Wedge, Heeding a Warning):

Clerith Interaction 6:

—

Clessie Interaction 7:

Clerith Interaction 7:

—

Clessie Interaction 8:

Clerith Interaction 8:

—

BONUS CLODGE (CLOUD x WEDGE) & CLERITH COMPARISONS!

Clodge Interaction 1:

Clerith Interaction 1:

—

Clodge Interaction 2:

Clerith Interaction 2:

—

And there ya have it! Pretty hilarious! 

I would imagine if the canon & intended flagship pairing was Clerith, the developers would at least TRY to make their moments much more unique, NOT make them totally identical to Clessie moments. Although both Clessie and Clerith have very sweet moments, there are no parallels that can be compared to Cloud and Tifa’s intimate moments - Cloud & Tifa have unique moments that are character-specific. Tifa and Cloud know things about each others that others couldn’t emulate, something Aerith nor Jessie could relate to (possibly why both Aerith & Jessie eagerly ask about Tifa’s standing with Cloud). 

But alas, this is just an opinion based on obviously stated evidence. We’ll see how the development team treats the romance component of this game. 

[silver-wield]

You know, I low key picked up on all these parallels, but they breezed by my brain at the same time. I think that might have been intended that way, too. You’re not meant to see how these interactions are the same until you compare them to the original ones Tifa has with Cloud.

Unless I missed a trick, there isn’t a single moment during the game between them that’s echoed with another pairing. In fact, the only echoes are to their own history with each other.

[silver-wield]

Reblogging cause another one is sneaking into Jessie’s house and sneaking out of Aerith’s.

[silver-wield]

@currobs just reminded me of another one where both Jessie and Aerith give Cloud materia

[silver-wield]

And another one, with pics this time!

Cloud’s face after Jessie kisses him during the bike scene (best result).

Cloud’s face when he sees Aerith’s best dress

Bonus: both scenes have 3 remixes of the girls’ theme music. 

[flowerslightning]

Just wanna add one more,

Both of them get their faces to be really close to Cloud’s

And Cloud seems to be awkward with it

[silver-wield]

And another one

[silver-wield]

So. Many. Parallels.

[silver-wield]

Today’s non unique moment for yall.

[silver-wield]

I’m not looking for these I swear! They’re just so damn obvious after 6 playthroughs 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[silver-wield]

Time for your daily dose of non-uniqueness.

This time it’s the OST.

RUN RUN RUN contains synth instrument melodies just like A Certain Gaudiness. And as yall will know both scenes they play feature our pretty boi hero. They’re also both the “best result” for the girls’ events - Jessie’s bike and Aerith’s dress. 

But there’s another song with synth notes and it’s Smash ‘em, rip ‘em. But oh, who’s absent from that scene? Yeah. Cloud. So not only do the above two songs have him present, the only one that involves Tifa that could be compared to them, very obviously doesn’t, since ykno, he’s busy calling Corneo a depraved bastard at that point. There’s also no minigame or alternate scenes that come with that song - which fucking slays btw.

[silver-wield]

I try to argue with my friend that KH wasn’t canon to FF7. Somehow she sent me this old interview from Nomura being asked about bringing Aerith back in KH. In the interview, Nomura did answer that KH and FF7 are seperate stories, however following the next sentence he said “But if you play KH, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith in FF7 might be answered. It’s sort of like a side story, and this was an extra bonus that I wanted to give to players”. I didn’t play KH so I didn’t know much about the game, my friend then show me the ending where Cloud reunited with Aerith in KH. She said to me that in this interview, Nomura mean that Cloud is searching for Aerith, which clearly explained in FF7 too, said Cloud desire was meeting her but unsuccessfully in FF7 so in this case Nomura create the alternative universe where they can “be together” to make more clear about their relationship in FF7. I was like “what?”, Honestly I believe her for giving correct info but I don’t believe what she explained from Nomura’s idea(because I don’t play KH so I afraid she try to made this up and trick me). Can you give your opinion about this? Thanks

KH isn't even canon to FF7, so why is anyone acting like it is?

I played KH and at no point did I think Cloud was looking for Aerith. Why? Because it literally says in Cloud's KH2 profile info that he's looking for Sephiroth.

Aerith even says she hopes he finds what he's looking for, so she knows he ain't searching for her. And then at the end of KH2 she's seen staring at the sky, which we all know is a metaphor for Zack.

And the quote from Nomura isn't about the credits, why would it be about the credits? He's talking about the end of the game itself where friends are reunited.

And imma repeat, I played KH1 and 2 and at no point did I think those two were a couple, especially in KH2 when Tifa shows up in front of Sephiroth and Cloud protects her and she gives him her light to fight the darkness. Because Tifa has always been Cloud's light even in OG.

Tifa and Cloud, both lost in the darkness. From Tifa's pov she suddenly appears in Cloud's subconscious, but he later reveals he heard her calling for him and that's how she managed to reach him. She called him back from the lifestream and through her efforts she reunited his fractured psyche.

No one else can do this for him.

Once he's back to himself they hold hands and return from the lifestream together.

In the HW scene we can see Cloud is much more definite that he heard Tifa calling for him, where she's the one who is more reserved in saying she heard him because she's shy.

In KH1 Cloud says he's looking for someone, and in KH2 we see that's Sephiroth. Cloud fell into the darkness because he was so consumed with settling things with Sephiroth that he ran from his light, which is Tifa.

Okay, so it's his fear of losing Tifa that makes him run from her, same as in AC because as Nomura said in the making of AC "the happier Cloud gets the lonelier he feels" because he's afraid of losing everything again.

Thing is, while KH is basically fan service, the character motivations and core personality traits remain the same. So Aerith is a helper who misses Zack and ships Cloti. Cloud is a dumbass who runs away from his feelings for Tifa because he'd rather have her at arm's length and alive than keep her close and risk the pain of losing her. He's also obsessed with taking out Sephiroth because he's the embodiment of his fears. Sephiroth took everything from Cloud, so that's why he wants to get rid of him so badly.

Just because they're in KH doesn't mean that lifestream reveal where Cloud is shown to be all about Tifa no longer exists. The promise, soldier, Tifa, Zack's death, it's who he is at his core.

And FF7R is still gonna have that reveal because it's already foreshadowed it. It's actually really sad how people try and twist facts to fit a false narrative.

Enjoy your ship, nobody's stopping you, but it ain't canon and never was. Illusion vs reality is a main theme of FF7. Congrats, you fell for the illusion. Tifa's the reality.

[cloudtifas-deactivated20201128]

“Aerith immediately wants to save Tifa from Don Corneo, but Tifa doesn’t give a shit about saving Aerith from Shinra.”

FALSE.  SO FALSE I CAN’T EVEN BELIEVE I HAVE TO TYPE THIS OUT.

Tifa is the first person to admit fault for Aerith’s capture.  Tifa feels directly responsible for it.  Y’all who say Tifa doesn’t give a shit about Aerith–this proves you wrong.  Tifa of course cares.  She feels like she is the one who caused it, and that she is the one who put Aerith in danger.  Multiple times, Tifa says, “I don’t wanna get Aerith involved.”

Tifa cares about Aerith.  She feels guilty that Aerith was captured. She feels like it is all her fault.

Based on Elmyra’s story and these words, Tifa and Barret may be under the impression that they are not under a time constraint to save Aerith.  Meanwhile, Wedge is stuck under burning rubble.  Cloud knows better than to trust Elmyra, because he knows Shinra, but Barret and Tifa don’t.

Finding Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie is more time sensitive, because they are in immediate danger or already dead.  Meanwhile, at least Elmyra is under the impression that Aerith is not in any immediate danger.  Tifa and Barret are forced to prioritize rescue missions; they aren’t not wanting to save Aerith, they are thinking that Wedge must be saved first, or else he might end up dead along with Biggs and Jessie.

It’s a fucked up situation to be in, but their logic is sound.  The only reason Cloud insists on going is because he has firsthand knowledge of how Shinra works, which all three other present character do not.

Y’all.  Elmyra doesn’t want Cloud, Tifa, and Barret going after Aerith.  She is afraid that them chasing after her will put her in more danger.  How is Tifa–a soft-spoken, very non-confrontation character–supposed to react to Elmyra literally begging them not to go after Aerith?

Tifa is considering Elmyra’s feelings here.  What is she gonna do?  Outright disrespect Aerith’s mom by telling her off to her face and ignoring her?  Blatantly ignore her wishes behind her back and risk getting Aerith hurt anyway?  No, of course not.  And that’s exactly why Cloud agrees to go to the bar, rather than set off on a rescue mission himself: because Elmyra has a valid point.  They have no idea what Shinra will do to Aerith if they mount a rescue.  They can’t be impulsive.

Cloud, Tifa, and Barret must wait for Elmyra to give them the green light on rescuing Aerith.  In the meantime, Barret suggests doing something both productive and time-sensitive.  Like going to the bar and searching for Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie.

It’s not that Tifa and Barret don’t want to go after Aerith–Barret is indebted to Aerith, and Tifa and Aerith are friends.  They care about her as much as Cloud.  But unlike Cloud (or, rather, unlike Cloud’s persona), Tifa and Barret are not hot-headed and cocky.  They don’t know what they are up against–they would need to plan a rescue.  And they would need to have Elmyra on board, since it would pose a possible risk to her daughter.

Even later one, Elmyra is still not wanting the three to go rescue Aerith.  Tifa and Barret have the ability to sympathize with Elmyra, who is conflicted about her daughter’s situation.  Cloud’s persona does not have the ability to feel this same sympathy, which is why he insists on going after her.

Elmyra doesn’t approve.  Tifa is respecting her wishes.  Tifa is a sisterly figure to Barret’s daughter Marlene–of course Tifa would understand why Elmyra would not want Cloud and co. to interfere.

Finally, when Elmyra begins to realize that Cloud may be right, she gives in a little bit and allows Cloud, Tifa, and Barret to go rescue Aerith.  She gives them her blessing.  Should anything have happened to Aerith, and Elmyra was not on board, could you imagine the guilt all three of them would feel?  Her blessing was essential here–not just for Tifa and Barret, but for Cloud as well.  There’s a reason Cloud didn’t just ignore her.  It’s because she, Tifa, and Barret all had a valid point.  

Cloud is not the only person who feels Aerith’s call.  Both Tifa and Barret (based on Tifa’s dialogue here) feel her calling out to them as well.  This means, of course, that Tifa and Barret both feel the need to rescue Aerith.

The difference here is that Tifa handles this situation with more emotional maturity.  She waits until Elmyra is okay with it.  She gives Elmyra a chance to understand the situation.  She wants Elmyra’s blessing.  Why?  Because none of them really know what they’re up against.

This rescue mission does indeed put Aerith’s life at risk.  It makes sense for Tifa to wait for Elmyra’s blessing; after all, this is her daughter.  Imagine the disrespect if Tifa went in after Aerith without a clue on how to proceed.

This also allows Cloud and Barret to approach the situation with a level head, too.  Rather than act on impulse, they can plan a strategy.  It would have been reckless and careless to have gone after her initially.  Not to mention Wedge could have died.

HERE IT IS.  TIFA FEELS THAT SHE HAS TO HELP AERITH.

With Tifa, things were different.  Cloud and Aerith did not need permission from anyone to go after Tifa. Not only that, but think about how fucking long chapter 9 is.  IT TAKES FOREVER.  Cloud and Aerith are trying to get into the Don’s mansion for hours.  When thinking about it logically and considering the in-game time that passes in each chapter, Cloud and co. don’t take that much longer to rescue Aerith.

Also, the stakes with Tifa were much, much, much lower, considering that even if Cloud and Aerith had fucked up her rescue, Tifa most likely could have gotten out of the situation herself. 

Remember, they are up against a bigger threat.  They might not have the ability to rescue Aerith.  Even so, Tifa still says she has to help her, that she is their friend.

It’s the difference between being ridiculously irresponsible and being concerned, worried, and wanting to do things the right way.  Tifa wanted to go after Aerith the whole time–she just didn’t want to get Aerith killed in the process.

And here, finally, the scene resolves with all three of the party members ready to fight.  Elmyra gives them her approval.  They all are motivated to save Aerith.  They all had time to meditate on it and not act on impulse.  They are better off having waited.

*

*

*

Okay, sorry y’all.  I just……….. couldn’t take the bullshit anymore.  Had to write about it.  I know the number of people making that outlandish claim is small, but I needed to stop that toxic mentality before it went any further.

Tifa has always, in every iteration of her character, went to bat for Aerith.  Lest we forget about what happens in Don Corneo’s mansion in the original FFVII:  If Aerith gets picked as the bride, Tifa actually dislikes Cloud for asking about Tifa’s wellbeing first.  Tifa will like Cloud better if he immediately tells her to go after Aerith.  Compare this with Aerith in the same scene.  It’s the opposite–suggesting to rescue Tifa makes OG Aerith dislike Cloud.

These comparisons are petty when you take into account the great lengths the writers have gone to build Aerith and Tifa’s friendship.  Tifa cares about Aerith.  Tifa is Aerith’s friend.  Making claims that this is anything but the entire truth by undermining Tifa’s characterization makes you sound like you never played the game.  Please stop belittling and putting down one female character in order to build up another.  It ain’t cute sis. ❤️✨❤️✨❤️✨

[silver-wield]

[eizasake]

CloTi edit 6/?: Parallelism - Chocobo Sam tells Cloud that Tifa is exactly Don Corneo’s type and he most likely won’t see Tifa ever again. Cloud meets Leslie, who helps him get inside Don Corneo’s mansion and helps rescue Tifa. Later, Tifa asks Leslie why he helped and we learn that Leslie had a fiancé who was once in Tifa’s position. He didn’t want what happened to him and his fiancé to happen to Cloud and Tifa. 

[silver-wield]

[vow-upon-a-star]

Stupidity

It is so clear cleriths do not understand what Cloud’s false identity was. I have seen all of them say “Why does Cloud remember Aerith when he regains his true self if he was Zack”   He WASN’T Zack. Nowhere is it ever stated he was Zack.  “His facade is him pretending he’s not in love with Aerith”  Ok. Why does he have a facade before even meeting Aerith? Why does his facade break down around Tifa when he doesn’t even know her name. Why does he very clearly not want anything to do with Aerith when she’s trying to give him a flower. He still had his facade there huh? And her telling him not to fall in love with her you’d think that’d be the start of this “facade” in which he’s pretending he isn’t.  Cloud’s facade exists independently from Aerith. Cloud’s false identity is not because he’s pretending to not be in love with her because she said not to (wtf they actually think this omfg) 

Cloud’s facade/false persona was created before the game even started. The Remake ultimania does not confirm he “is pretending not to love Aerith” it’s saying what the past ultimanias have always said. Cloud’s true self only emerges around Tifa, not Aerith, he has a false persona around Aerith and she is acknowledging this. Both in OG with her “I want to meet you” admitting she has not met the real Cloud, and with the Remake in which she says any feelings he may feel towards her wouldn’t be real because he is not truly himself. 

Sources: 

Enigma of the voice As Cloud is trying to place the bomb, a mysterious voice speaks to him. Later, this same kind of mysterious voice resounds in Cloud’s head in the scene where he and a voice have a conversation, and it offers him reminders. These voices are the original Cloud, as – due to Hojo’s Sephiroth Clones experiment –Zack’s personality merged with his, creating the present day Cloud, producing a conflict of multiple personalities- FF7 Ultimania Omega, pg. 68 

When staying at a private house, the mysterious voice echoed inside Cloud’s mind again, asking him why he didn’t see Tifa before leaving to the Mako reactor 5 years ago. In truth, Cloud didn’t want his identity known as a regular trooper/soldier and avoided Tifa, but this memory is sealed. Does the voice trying to awaken him belong to Sephiroth, who made Cloud his puppet? Or is it Cloud trying to return to his original self? – Judging from the dialogue, “It was a great chance for you two to see each other again,” it seems to be the latter. The voice also says things that see through to Cloud’s hidden feelings. -FF7 Ultimania Omega, pg. 110

Cloud had been stricken with Mako poisoning on two separate occasions, once in the 7th Street slum train station, and again in Mideel. Both times it had been Tifa’s voice calling to him that had restored him to consciousness.- FF20th Anniversary Ultimania Vol 2: Scenario pg. 206 

Due to the influence of the Jenova cells implanted in his body he acted out a false persona, but with the support of his friends he regains his true self and grows as a person.- FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Cloud’s profile pg. 36-41

At first he calls himself “ex-SOLDIER, 1st Class”, and affects a condescending attitude towards the people around him, but this is a false pretence born from Cloud’s own desires. - FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Cloud’s profile pg. 36-41

At the age of 16 Cloud was sent on a mission to his hometown of Nibelheim, where Sephiroth went out of control (what is commonly called the “Sephiroth Incident”). Cloud, having suffered heavy injuries during the incident, was injected with cells from Jenova, an extraterrestrial life form. These cells, which Sephiroth also had in his body, controlled Cloud’s thoughts and created a separate personality, and tried to manipulate Cloud into joining with Sephiroth. Even the Meteor crisis was indirectly caused by Cloud having become a puppet to Sephiroth. In FFVII Cloud finally regains his true self and defeats Sephiroth, but this doesn’t mean he’s completely freed from the will of Jenova, and in AC he is tormented by the Remnant’s call for the Reunion.- - FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Cloud’s profile pg. 36-41 

While still just a grunt, he aims to be in SOLDIER. He strikes up a friendship with Zack, a SOLDIER 1st Class; what influence will he have on Cloud, that would lead to Cloud imitating Zack’s personality - FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Cloud’s profile pg. 36-41

What Cloud Inherited from Zack

Under the effect of Jenova’s cells, Cloud mimics his best friend Zack and creates a new persona, but the mental aspects weren’t the only things he received from Zack. - FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Cloud’s profile pg. 36-41

Zack’s personality had a heavy influence on the formation of Cloud’s personality when he was under Jenova’s control. -FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Zack’s profile pg. 82 - 85

He lost his life trying to escape from the clutches of ShinRa, who had been performing experiments on the bodies of Cloud and himself. Although Zack was already deceased before the start of the story, Cloud confused himself with Zack and in the process of recovering his original self, Zack’s character is also brought to light. -FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Zack’s profile pg. 82 - 85

The photo taken with Tifa and Sephiroth prior to the departure to the Mako Reactor. It provided and opportunity to expose the falsehood in Cloud’s memories. -FF7 10th anniversary Ultimania, Zack’s profile pg. 82 - 85 

First love Zack Aerith’s first love was Zack, a young SOLDIER 1st Class who she lost contact with 5 years ago. He was Cloud’s best friend, and his personality has had a great influence on Cloud’s behavior. Aerith is unaware that the two were best friends, and takes an interest in Cloud because she sees Zack in him. -pg. 197 of the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 1: Character

Aerith’s first love is Zack, the object of Cloud’s basic personality of being an “ex-SOLDIER.” . We could say Cloud’s speaking and acting like Zack is a big reason why Aerith started to have good feelings towards Cloud. -pg. 29, FFVII Ultimania Omega

“I’m looking for you."…"So you won’t have a beakdown.” - what Aerith told Cloud had many deep meanings. Aerith detected that the present Cloud is not the real him during their encounters. She knows it because of her mysterious, inherent ability. -pg. 29, FFVII Ultimania Omega (Aerith knows the real Cloud bit cleriths in the ass because in the remake she tells Cloud his feelings aren’t real.)

Jenova’s mimic ability Jenova has a mimic ability which allows it to read the memories and feelings of others, then adjust its appearance, speech and behaviour accordingly to immitate what it has seen. Jenova once used this ability to get close to the Ancients and infect them with its virus, which killed many of them.

This ability is not limited solely to Jenova itself, for those who have its cells within them possess it as well, though in an incomplete form. Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud’s mind was shattered, he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to “normal” (–>P.13); this was because the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him. -FF7 Ultimania Omega

Why does Cloud remember Aerith after regaining his true self?

Because the real Cloud was never gone, it was always there trying to regain control. That’s why the voice speaks to Cloud throughout the game in OG, the real Cloud is TRYING to come back. The real Cloud has memories because he wasn’t blacked out throughout disc 1. He’d remember Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge too. His flashbacks in AC also show he has memories Shinra exploding, and has memories of Zack when he was in his mako poisoned comatose state!  Tl;Dr

What Cloud’s false persona/facade was/is: A combination of memories and Cloud’s own desires with Zack as a basis–brought about by the Jenova cells in his body. His true self emerges only around Tifa, and Tifa is the one who helps him regain his true self.  What Cloud’s false persona/facade is not: Aerith told him not to fall in love with her so he’s putting on a facade that he’s not in love with her.

P.s. As for Maiden and Dismantled, they were both written by a man who was never involved with the development of FF7 or its compilation, and funnily enough cleriths claim Aerith knew the real Cloud but cite Maiden–in which Aerith admits she doesn’t know the real Cloud and can’t help him regain himself. Ironic.  

[silver-wield]

FF7R: Sidequests Analysis

I’m gonna be comparing Sector 7′s evolving reaction to Cloud during the chapter 3 sidequests to the evolving reaction during the sector 5 sidequests in chapter 8 to show how the NPCs treated Cloud the longer he was there. This is not a direct comparison between the girls. This is about Cloud. If people can’t deal with that or think that me comparing sidequests isn’t objective then cya!

This is a two part analysis, with part one focusing on sector 7 and part two on sector 5.

Ok, spoiler warning for ppl who haven’t played – do I still need to do this? Eh ok, (I tag FF7R spoilers as final fantasy 7 remake spoilers) and it’s gonna be long.

Also, this is one person’s interpretation of the scene, so if you disagree that’s cool and we’ll agree to disagree.

You’re also gonna have to excuse the janky quality on some of the screens, I’m grabbing them from Youtube and it’s frustrating af trying to get the exact moment I want.

Please check my master post to see if I’ve already covered your question, thanx

Let’s mosey!

Afficher davantage

[silver-wield]

Hey ! I often hear that Aerith is more popular in Japan while Tifa is more popular in America and Europe. But I understand that even in Japan, Tifa has become more popular than Aerith in Japan over the years and with the appearance of the Remake, this is only made clearer now. Isn't it? Do you have articles or surveys that demonstrate this growing popularity of Tifa in Japan? Sorry maybe I can find this easily on Tumblr but I'm not too familiar with it.

@eizasake you had stats, right?

[eizasake]

Tifa and Cloti has always been more popular in general, not only in Japan but across the globe according to Google trends dating from 2004-2020.

Nojima  being the ultimate Tifa and Cloti shipper

Tifa’s popularity with Japanese celebrities

Tifa’s birthday tweet from the official Twitter of FF7R ENG has over 38,000 likes

Tifa’s dynamic theme tweet from the official Twitter of FF7R JPN has over 19,000 likes

A video on YT recorded by a JPN showing how Tifa had the loudest cheers at E3 has over 1,000,000 views

A JPN fan made a compilation of various foreign fans’ reactions to Tifa’s appearance in the trailer at E3, also has over 1,000,000 views

Cloti flirting moments compiled by a JPN fan has over 1,000,000 views

Tifa is voted as the #1 heroine in Final Fantasy 7 Remake with 892 votes out of 2,000 voters

Most popular FF couples done on Square’s portal page lists Cloti as one of the top 3 - significant because this poll is IP LOCKED, unlike other polls. 

And coincidentally, a JPN fan on twitter recently uploaded this clip of Kitase talking about Tifa’s explosive popularity and the loud cheers for her at E3. The fan says something along the lines of, “No matter how much you make a fake article/poll, you may be able to trick other people, but you cannot trick the officials 😌.” 

[silver-wield]

hiya! do you or anyone who is reading this have the Japanese translation for that scene in chapter 8 when Cloud is remembers Tifa as a child and Aerith asks if Tifa is his girlfriend? i swear I saw it somewhere but I can't find it. or if possible-- and this might be a stretch-- is there a place where one can find the Japanese translations for the game in general? thanks, xo!

@eizasake @otp-oasis-heavenxearth @nibelheiim help a Cloti out?

I remember the JP line has Aerith saying Tifa is Cloud's special someone, which in Japanese has a lot more meaning than how we say it in English. Probably also a ref to one of the novellas since those are also part of the compilation and do get referenced in the game.

[otp-oasis-heavenxearth]

Hiii thanks for the tag.

So let's see.. (I'm not Japanese if anyone wants to correct me but here's what I got)

Aerith: Is Tifa your lover***?

(Slang: girlfriend, notes on this)

(Kurado no koibito?)

Cloud: No! (Chigau!)

Aerith: You're getting worked up/agitated/flustered (muki ni natteru)

**Can also mean you're getting super serious about this (but I think it's worked up)**

Cloud: It's not like that*** (Sou iu n'janai)

(***I'm prettyyyyy sure here Cloud is saying "It's not like I'm getting worked up about it")

But I can't really explain it

(demo, setsumei deki sou ni nai)

Aerith: ***I see... (Sou kka...)*

***Notes:

Inb4: Why would Cloud be worked up? Does he not like Tifa?

You would think he'd brush it off as just a mistaken assumption as she's not his girlfriend.

But koibito can also mean "one someone secretly longs for" and Cloud does secretly long for Tifa. It also implies loving someone and not just being in a romantic relationship with them. It's not casual even though it's used for slang as lover/girlfriend.

Cloud doesn't understand his feelings for Tifa because he can't access True Cloud's feelings. There's an implication there that he loves her or longs for her and he can't wrap his head around it. So it bothers*** him.

Aerith responds with a "I see..." Like "really..." It's a disbelieving tone

***More Indepth Notes: Also even though it is used as a slang term for lover/boyfriend/girlfriend it's a bit intimate so someone wouldn't just use koibito to describe their own relationship with someone they love so freely. They'd say the relationship of that person, my kanojo (girlfriend), kareshi (boyfriend), okusan (wife) etc. So this girl he just met asking about a koibito and Cloud's outright no! Is more flustered than actually "upset she would insinuate such a thing".

It's similar to OG where Aerith says Cloud is getting upset if he responds No way!

https://youtu.be/0Zba19BBCxw

I hope that helps!

[silver-wield]

Awesome addition! I knew someone would have the answer 😊😊😊

So, basically, in both languages Cloud is doing the typical guy thing where he’s being asked about the girl he likes and -- since Cloud’s a teenager -- is all “nuh uh” but secretly being “yuh huh”

[silver-wield]

Main scenario - iron sword.

Main scenario - buster sword modification

Auto-Cure Materia at a discounted rate.

Maiden's Kiss

five Hi-Potions. You can also buy a Cleanse Materia for a discounted price of 300 gil.

Elixir

reward of 500 gil.

Star Bracelet

Cloud not only got paid for every single job he did, but he was also promised further payment because this is what he's bringing up after all the quests are done. He's also including Tifa in that "Where do we get paid?" He fully intends to split whatever he gets with her because she did half the work. That's called respect.

Main scenario - nothing

Miss Folia - nothing

Nail Bat

Protective Boots.

Spectral Cogwheel accessory

reward of 2,000 gil

Studded Bracer armor

And it seems not even that stolen 2000 gil was enough to make Cloud think he'd earned anything worthwhile. He also makes no mention of including Aerith in his "payment", and she's dismissive towards him in her reply excusing the douchebags of sector 5 by saying they didn't know him.

Well, the weapon seller didn't know him either, but he offers Cloud a sword, for free, after that very first monster quest for the watch in the main scenario. A sword. Not a bat. An actual weapon Cloud could use. For free. He doesn't even know Cloud's name.

Also, those rewards are ship approved. A maiden's kiss and star bracelet? Subtle. Auto cure, potions, elixirs? Stuff you need when you don't have a dedicated healer in the party. Cleanse materia? The same cleanse you need later in Sam's sidequests. Good weapons? It's very Cloti oriented. No wonder Cloud likes it.

The the other stuff.

A pair of grunt boots, (says soldiers, not SOLDIERS); an accessory for magic users, which is basically just Aerith because Cloud uses a sword to fight, and then a studded bracer and the description with it says to suppress one's inner rebel, and finally a "crudely reinforced baseball bat designed to beat the living tar out of anything and anyone" and it's the weakest weapon he gets overall.

Honestly, the more you look the more you see.

[enigmaphenomenon]

Giant Cloti quotes post

Here’s pretty much every quote cloti has to support Cloud and Tifa as a pairing.

10th Anniversary Ultimania

She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding. -Tifa profile 10th AU.

Apart from being Cloud’s childhood friend, she is also the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him. FF7 10thAU Tifa profile

I want to see Cloud — Marlene’s honest words, which reflected what Tifa felt in her own heart, caused her to smile. The present Tifa isn’t just Cloud’s childhood friend, but also the mother of the ‘family’ they were forming in Edge.- Tifa profile 10th AU.

Tifa, watching over Cloud warmly as he regains the strength to move forward. Having been together with him since they were young, she is able to believe in his recovery for certain. -Tifa profile 10th AU. Seemingly worried about Cloud after he had left the village, she asked the Turk who had saved her whether he knew about him. -Tifa profile 10th AU.

The familiar reminiscence scene from FFVII － She made a promise with Cloud, who had called her to the water tower, that he would “Protect her when she was in a pinch.” -Tifa profile 10th AU.

As to her realizing that “Cloud had rushed over when Tifa was in a pinch” – note that the explanation that “both of them regained the lost memories of that time when they were inside FFVII’s Lifestream” becomes a feasible point. -Tifa profile 10th AU.

In Crisis Core  Holding the hope of a reunion in her heart, The young lady who waited for the SOLDIERs. -Tifa profile 10th AU.

When she heard that there would be SOLDIERs coming to the village, she looked forward to being reunited with a Cloud who had became excellent/praiseworthy. However, she was unable to meet with him and though disappointed deep down, she lead the SOLDIERs towards the Nibel Reactor. -Tifa profile 10th AU.

On the request of his childhood friend Tifa, Cloud assists the anti-ShinRa organization “AVALANCHE” led by Barret. -Cloud 10th AU profile.

In Advent Children  The happier he is now, The more Cloud is tormented by painful “memories” of the past. -Cloud profile 10th AU.

Now running a delivery business while helping out Tifa with the newly opened “Seventh Heaven” bar, Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzel lived together like a family. -Cloud 10th AU.

The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud… -Cloud profile 10th AU.

With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward. -Cloud profile 10th AU. (Important woman is written in a romantic sense here. “taisetsu na josei”/”important woman”)

He also meets the Turks again when he is sent to investigate the Nibelheim Mako Reactor, and there are scenes such as him confiding about his promise with Tifa which supplement FFVII. -Cloud profile 10th AU. He explains the situation to the Turks member who knows Tifa and gets them to keep quiet about his return. -Cloud profile 10th AU.

A Promise to Tifa, Etched in his Memory. -Cloud profile 10th AU.

While it was Tifa who strong-armed him into making the promise, it seems that the idea that he must keep this vow was forever in Cloud’s mind. In BC he is obsessive about protecting people, and if he runs out of strength part way though he will mention the “promise.” -Cloud profile 10th AU.

[BC] If he runs out of strength part way through the story, he will say regretfully that he “couldn’t come through on my promise to her.” -Cloud profile 10th AU.

He lifts a collapsed Tifa up in his arms, and upon seeing her aware of him, he smiles gently. -Cloud profile 10th AU.

The place where he awakens—-That is Cloud’s Promised Land 

As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. 

The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn’t belong here yet.When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma— his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live. He realizes that he was able to forgive himself.

And when he turns around—- “she” is starting to leave. Together with the friend who had given Cloud his life. Cloud no longer has to suffer in loneliness… And so they too go back to where they belong. - 10th AU ACC playback. (Cloud goes back to Tifa and the children, where he belongs, just as Zack and Aerith go back to the lifestream; back where they belong TOO.)

Aerith lends her power to the people suffering from Geostigma in Edge, and personally provides for Cloud’s recovery. Geostigma is cured. Cloud returns to Tifa and the children. FFVII 10th Anniversary

The line “Words aren’t the only way to talk someone how you feel,” right? That was quite a mature conversation for a FF game.

Kitase: But I remember having to get another version that was too intense toned down.

Nojima: The original idea was more extreme. The plan was to have Cloud walk out of the Chocobo stable on board the Highwind, followed by Tifa leaving while checking around, but Kitase turned it down. But even with the line in question, maybe at that time none of us thought it would be something so important (laughs).- 10th AU pg.8 to 13

 “Before leaving the village, he boldly called to Tifa, a girl he liked romantically, and declared he would become a SOLDIER.”-FF7 10th AU pg. 12

Crisis Core

The only woman who knows Cloud’s past.In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud’s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim’s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.- Tifa Crisis Core Ultimania.

[FFVII] Tifa becomes the only witness to Cloud’s blurry memory, and she also plays an important role in regaining his true self. - Tifa Crisis Core Ultimania.

Cloud and Tifa

Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, both born in Nibelheim. When Cloud leaves the village, he calls Tifa out to the water tower and promises that he will become a SOLDIER. At the same time, he is also made by Tifa to promise that he will come to rescue her if she is ever in trouble.Following this, the pair experience many hardships, such as the Nibelheim incident which also appears in CC, and the Jenova War in FFVII, and through these the distance between them shortens. And in AC they live together, with Barret’s daughter Marlene and a boy named Denzel. Though there was also a period later where Cloud lived away from them after having contracted Geostigma, they finally reach a commune with each over and return to living together once again. In DC, they rush together to Vincent’s aid, in his battle against Deep Ground SOLDIER.- Crisis Core Complete Guide.

Water Tower

The water tower erected in the center of Nibelheim. The large wooden cask catches rain water, and filters it to supply the townspeople with water to use in their daily lives. In the game, it is counted as one of the 7 Wonders of Nibelheim, as a place where the water runs red, due to the color of a red summon materia that was in the tower seeping into the water.Also, the tower at night appears to be a date spot for the town’s young residents, and Cloud had also called Tifa out here and talked to her before leaving Nibelheim for Midgar. -Crisis Core Complete Guide.

The Highwind Scene 

VII – The night before the final battle Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match. - For the One I love pg 20th AU.

The script for the High Affection scene the only one present in Impressive scenes.

Their Time Alone ~Before the final battle with Sephiroth Tifa: “Everyone’s gone…” Cloud: “Yeah, we don’t have anywhere or anyone to go home to.” Tifa: “You’re right… But… I’m sure someday… they’ll come back, don’t you think?” Cloud: “Hmm… I wonder…? Everyone has an irreplaceable something they’re holding on to… But this time, our opponent…” Tifa: “Hmm… But that’s all right, even if no one comes back. As long as I’m with you… As long as you’re by my side… I won’t give up even if I’m scared.” Cloud: “……Tifa……” Tifa: “No matter how close we are… We were far apart… before this. But when we were in the Lifestream surrounded by all those screams of anguish, I thought I heard your voice… …sniff…. you probably don’t remember this… But deep in my heart I heard you calling my name… Or at least I thought I did…” Cloud: “Yeah… At that time I heard you calling me. You were calling me back from the stream of consciousness in the Lifestream. After all, I promised. That if anything were to ever happen to you, I would come to help.” Tifa: “Cloud…? Do you think the stars can hear us? Do you think they see how hard we’re fighting for them?” Cloud: “I dunno… But… Whether they are or not, we still have to do what we can. And believe in ourselves… I’ll find the answer someday. Right, Tifa? That’s what I learned from you when I was in the Lifestream.” Tifa: “Yeah…… that’s right…” Cloud: “Hey Tifa…… I…… There are a lot of things I wanted to talk to you about. But now that we’re together like this, I don’t know what I really wanted to say… I guess nothing’s changed at all… Kind of makes you want to laugh…” Tifa: “Cloud… Words aren’t the only thing that tell people what you’re thinking…”

“Declares that the team should dissolve in the final hours before the final battle, and communicates his feelings together with Tifa, who remains behind at the airship with him.”- FF7 Ultimania Omega pg. 15

“When Cloud proposes that the group separates temporarily, she remains behind at the airship and communicates her feelings together with Cloud. ”- FF7 Ultimania Omega pg. 27

If Tifa’s affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm that their feelings of desire/wanting for one another match.“- Final Fantasy 7 Ultimania Omega pg 27.

"When their companions disperse to the places where people important to them await, Cloud and Tifa are the only two to remain behind. They reveal their mutual feelings in their final hours, and…….”- FF7 Ultimania Omega pg. 198

“Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and confirm them to match.”- FF7 10th AU pg. 118; pg. 120 Revised Edition.

“And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match.”- U20 Scenerio pg. 232. main body summary.

“VII - The night before the final battle Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.”- U20 Scenerio pg. 394

“When Cloud proposes that the group separates temporarily, she remains behind at the airship and communicates her feelings together with Cloud. The next morning, she departs for the Northern Crater along with her companions, who returned 'Words aren’t the only thing that tell people what you’re thinking……’ -Said to Cloud, when he is at a loss for words while they’re alone. If Tifa’s affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm their matching feelings of desire/wanting to one another. This line is said by Tifa at the conversation’s end. Immediately after saying it, Tifa forms a striking smile that summarizes everything." - FF7 Ultimania Omega pg. 27 complete entry.

”Yuffie is unaware that Cloud and Tifa had just spent the night together. Woman’s intuition is as perceptive as ever, no?“- FF7 Ultimania Omega. pg. 39

"Night before the final battle…… After stopping Hojo’s recklessness and before heading to the Northern Crater, the conversation scene with Tifa can diverge drastically depending on Tifa’s affection rating. When the affection rating is low, the conversation scene where the two spend the evening is candid and rather short. In the scene on the bridge the next morning, Tifa asks ‘Were you listening?’ and taps her foot. On the other hand, if the affection rating is high, the two spend the evening in focused conversation, and on the bridge, Tifa asks 'Were you watching?’ and collapses in embarassment.”- FF7  UO Pg. 198

[Screenshot caption]“Before the final battle…… Variations determined by Tifa’s affection rating apply from the beginning of the evening with Cloud and Tifa on the grassland until the conversation where they reunite with their companions on the airship. If the affection rating is high, Cloud and Tifa convey their feelings in powerful lines.[Screenshot caption] Upon returning to the airship, Yuffie will say 'Gee, Cloud…… that’s so nice of you to say that. ……You sick?’ regardless of the contents of the conversation of Cloud’s conversation.”- FF7 Ultimania Omega pg. 201.

(FFVII International Memorial Album, pp. 241-242) [Script of high affection version of the Highwind scene the only one included in script of the game]

“Words aren’t the only thing that tell people what you’re thinking…”Prairie: The last night before the final battle, to Cloud when he finds himself at a loss for words Caption: For many years, Cloud and Tifa have been holding favor for one another. At last facing the impending final battle with Sephiroth, they confirm together their feelings of desire towards one another-Tifa’s memorial words FF 25th Anniversary Ultimania.( The word for favor is koui, which mean romantic favor)

The Fateful Night the Two Share An event near the time of the final battle with Sephiroth, where Cloud and Tifa stay at the airship Highwind together. With this possibly being the end — an evening overcome with a flood of feelings becomes something special. - 25th Anniversary Tifa’s memorial scene.

At this point the claim “Cloti is a myth” becomes even more laughable than it already was.

Omg…this is gonna be such a long ass post….

Creator comments.

Nojima explains, “Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged. Two years is too short to forget the past completely, but it’s still a pretty long time… And two years older was a good age for Marlene to start talking a little.” The reason Nojima narrowed the location down to the area surrounding their house, he says, was to create a sense of crisis close to home.

Cloud tried to move on once…but he was hurt by the losses he experienced in the battles he fought in the game story. even after all of that he still found a peaceful life. and that made him scared. he lost it all once already and he could lose it all again. even though he was there he couldn’t do anything to prevent it the last time. so the happier he is, the more lonely he becomes. - nomura : distance.

—Were there two heroines from the outset?Nomura: 

No, originally there was only Aerith, and Tifa was added as another heroine later. To make up for Aerith dying, we needed a heroine who would be by the hero’s side until the end.- Nomura. FF7 15th anniversary famitsu interview.

“Nojima: Cloud never had a candid personality to begin with, and although he started living with Tifa and even started working, he obtained a peaceful living he’s never experienced before, and this conversely made him anxious. And in the midst of this he contracts Geostigma himself, and rather than being able to protect the people dear to him, he instead was forced to face his own death, and so ran away.”- Nojima, AC prologue.

“There are many dimensions to Tifa’s character. She’s like a mother, a sweetheart [koibito], and a close ally in battle“- Nomura. FF7 reunion file book pg. 19

“In Nojima’s scenario, the connection between Cloud and Tifa was discussed more concretely, but I chose to erase that. I thought it would be more interesting for players to think about it instead. For example, with the meaning that ‘if Sephiroth is Cloud’s darkness, then Tifa is his light,’ one may take the understanding that Tifa isn’t human. It may be because Tifa isn’t human that she doesn’t talk with anyone but Sora’s group. Of course, since she was also presented in a way where she could be seen as a resident of Hollow Bastion like Cid, Aerith and the others, I think one can freely ponder that.” Nomura pg 724 KH2 ultimania

Other quotes

These are multiple from scattered sources.

 Deep inside Cloud’s heart, feelings were hidden that no one knew about. Even though there were important memories to himself, many of them were forgotten. In the process of looking for the real Cloud, Tifa learns a lesson about the complexity of the human heart, and the feelings are earnestly transmitted. -FF7 Ultimania Omega pg. 27

Tifa, who from 2 years ago has been the only one Cloud opened his heart to. Now he has closed off his heart even from her. -pg. 21 advent children prologue book

His adamant will reaches the throne of Cosmos. Cosmos rescues Cloud after he is defeated by Chaos and on the verge of disappearing. Ironically, that whom he set out to protect sacrificed herself to protect him.   Cloud’s Character Museum - Dissidia Duodecim

Promise on the Water Tower The memory of Cloud and Tifa exchanging promises on the water tower 7 years ago has a vital significance when searching for “Cloud’s true self” in the Lifestream. Also, the promise to “come to Tifa’s rescue if she is in trouble” forms the reason for Cloud assisting AVALANCHE in this scene, but he has in fact already fulfilled this promise 5 years ago in the Nibel mako reactor.FF7 Ultimania Omega Page 71

Tifa meets Cloud in Nibelheim during the events of Crisis Core and their friendship carries over to Tifa has always liked Cloud and enjoys helping him restore his memory when they reunite in Final Fantasy VII. She ultimately lets her feelings be known near the end of Final Fantasy VII and the two can be seen living together during the events of Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus.- Tifa profile pg. 11 Official Crisis Core strategy Guide.

Tifa is a young girl in Nibelheim who is hired as a guide to lead Sephiroth and Zack to the mako excavation facility. She is not a fan of ShinRa and, although she admits to desiring a blonde-haired soldier operative for a boyfriend, she does not have a lot of nice things to say about soldier.- Tifa profile pg.11 Official Crisis Core Guide.

“Words aren’t the only way to convey for feelings”- Tifa secret audio in Dissidia Duodecim.

A member of the anti-Shirna organization AVALANCHE, and Cloud’s childhood friend. She is the only person who knows his past, and the one person who understands him. In the previous battle, she supported Cloud not only in battle but also mentally, and at the final stages of their fight was a great help to him. -Tifa Dengeki Profile.

She gives encouragement to Cloud, who is unable to shake off his doubts, and creates the catalyst for him to regain the will to fight -Tifa Dengeki profile.

But after reuniting with her childhood friend Cloud, she sets out with him on a journey in pursuit of Sephiroth. She continued to support him at all times, such as when Cloud fell into the Lifestream, and she devotedly nursed over him. -Tifa Dengeki profile.

At the end of a long struggle, she gently welcomes back Cloud on his return home after settling things with himself. -Tifa Dengeki profile.

[FFVII] Previously, Cloud had promised Tifa that he would “protect her if she were in a bind.” Perhaps this promised has been her long-standing support.- Tifa Dengeki profile.

“A member of AVALANCHE, an anti-Shinra group that takes extreme measures to defy the company, and the popular proprietress of the bar 7th Heaven. She is a kind and motherly woman, while also being a proficient martial artist. Her lively personality belies an introverted nature and hides her love for her childhood friend Cloud.” - Tifa’s Theatre rhythm profile. 

“A member of AVALANCHE and a childhood friend of Cloud’s. She boasts hand-to-hand fighting skills that can put a man to shame, but she’s actually an introvert. She has a soft spot for Cloud.“- Tifa’s description Final Fantasy record keeper.

 Even though Cloud was holding feelings for Tifa from some time ago, Tifa’s interest in Cloud did not start until the time when the promised was exchanged. It might have been her loneliness due to her surrounding friends leaving one after another, but more than that, it seems largely in part to him making the promise to become her hero.By the way, Tifa did not realize that Cloud was holding feelings for her until he informed her in the Lifestream. Even though she was called and it was just the two of them, she can be quite clueless. -FF7 Ultimania Omega pg 25.

Cloud: ….a sealed up secret…… wish…… Tender memories…… no one can ever know…

The True Wish Revealed “As a young child, Cloud was rebellious and isolated from those around his age, so he would try to convince himself that he was special. As such, Tifa was important to him. A slight young love/childhood awakening of love is revealed in the mental world - FF7 25th AU. 

To Tifa, Cloud is the only one through which she can get in touch with her past. He is her ideal love and his existence is also like a prince who promised to come to her rescue when she is in trouble.- Tifa profile AC prologue

For the sake of helping Tifa, Cloud disguises himself as a woman at Aerith’s suggestion. That in mind, the dialogue options when he’s picked as Corneo’s companion are really amusing.- FF7 UO

“In the past you’ve always looked after me. You, and Denzel and Tifa. You were there whenever I needed you.Well, now… it’s my turn.”-Cloud to Marlene-Cloud to Marlene, FFVII: Advent Children Complete

As a small boy, he didn’t get along with others apart from Tifa. So when Tifa’s mother died and three of her friends decided to take her up the mountains where the dead were believed to go, Cloud wasn’t invited. But even so, Cloud secretly went after them wanting to cheer Tifa up-Cloud profile AC prologue.

Tifa hardens her resolve as they head toward the final battle, but she is unable to suppress her fear. On the bridge of the airship, she says to Cloud, “Would you tell me ‘It’s all right’?” Although Tifa is forlorn and somewhat childish here, when Cloud tells Tifa “It’s all right,” it is heartwarming.- Ultimania Omega

Sephiroth—I don’t get him at all.Is everyone in SOLDIER like him? Oh, andare there any blond guys in SOLDIER? Well,it’s just a dream… Any girl would love to have ablond SOLDIER guy protect her when she’s in a pinch.Well, it’s no good just waiting for myblond knight in shining armor to show up,so I’ve started learning how to fight, myself.My teacher tells me I’ve got a knack for it. - Tifa’s text message to Zack, Crisis Core.

Quotes from in game and Case of Tifa.

Tifa Cloud! Please don’t die! You can’t die! There’s still so much I want to tell you!

Cloud I know, Tifa……

…

Tifa Cloud, we came this far… Aren’t you going to settle up with Sephiroth?Cloud (shaking his head) No… I’m afraid. If this keeps up, I may go crazy! I’m afraid…

Barret Just a damn jackass, that’s what you are… Yo, jes’ think about it… How many people in this world do ya think really understand themselves? People get depressed in life because they don’t know what’s up. But, they go on living. They don’t run away… Isn’t that how it is?(He walks out of the room.)

Tifa Cloud… you’ll come with us, right? I believe in you.

…

Cloud ……I was really surprised with Tifa.

…

Tifa ……… Cloud…? How bad was I when Sephiroth cut me?

Cloud I thought you were a goner. ……I was really sad.

…

Cloud Why are you so scared? Don’t worry about me. I’m all right. No matter how confused I am, I’ll never believe a word that Sephiroth says. It’s true that sometimes I can’t figure out who I am. There’s a lot of things muddled up in my memories. But, Tifa…… But you said, 'Long time no see, Cloud’ right? Those words will always support me. I am the one you grew up with. I’m Cloud of Nibelheim. No matter how much I lose faith in myself, that is the truth. That’s why you shouldn’t be so scared. No matter what anyone else says to me, it’s your attitude that counts…

…

Cloud That starry night at the well…… And our promise that night… What if the memory was just a lie?

…

Cloud ……I was devastated. ……I wanted to be noticed. I thought if I got stronger I could get someone to notice……

Tifa Someone to notice you…? ……who? 

Who……? ……You know who! ……You, that’s who.

Cloud You……

…

Tifa Oh, Cloud……! It’s really you, isn’t it?

Cloud Yeah…… Tifa…… We finally…… meet again……

…

However, Cloud beside her chose to smile gently. It was a smile that she hadn’t seen before during their journey. Cloud noticed her gaze and asked, “What’s wrong?”

“Cloud, you’re smiling.”

“I am?”

“Yeah.”

“It all starts now. A new…”

Cloud looked for the right words.

“A new life.”

“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things… happened.”

“That’s right…”

“But when I think about how many times I’ve thought about how I was going to start a new life, it’s funny.”

“Why?”

“Because I’ve always failed everything.”

“That’s not funny.”

“After this … I think I’ll be okay.”

Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.

“Because I have you this time.”

“You’ve always had me.”

“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

…

“And where do we have something like that?”

“We’ll find one.” Cloud looked at Tifa and said, 

“Right?”

…

When Tifa and Cloud were alone, Cloud said,  “It’s not like you to be troubled by your thoughts.” 

“It’s… Just the way I am.”

“No. You’re much more cheerful and strong. If you’ve forgotten the way you were then, I’ll be there to remind you.”

“You really will?”

“Probably,” Cloud said blushing.

…

Tifa couldn’t answer right away. She understood what Barret was saying. But opening up a store felt like going back to the times of AVALANCHE. Cloud spoke up.

“Tifa, lets give it a go. If it gets too tough, we’ll just quit.”

…

At the same time, Tifa also thought, he is pushing himself too hard for me.

…

“Where are you going?”

“How should I say this…”

Cloud told her how there had many times when he was asked to deliver something while coming back with supplies. The caller was one of the store owners who shared some of his vegetables with them. It seemed there was something that he wanted Cloud to deliver before the night was over by all means. Cloud gazed at Tifa like a kid who just had his secrets revealed.

“Why are you looking at me like that?”

“Well… I’m sorry I kept quiet about it.”

“About what?”

“Doing things without consulting.”

Tifa burst out in laughter. Cloud went on about how he got paid a little for delivering items. He explained to her how he felt guilty spending it all on the modifications for the bike.

Itadaki Street Scripts

Cloud: Tifa is wonderful. I, too, want to become strong. Aerith: Cloud has been yearning/longing for Tifa… or Cloud: Tifa is amazing… I wanna be stronger… as well Aerith: You look up to Tifa a lot, don’t you Cloud?

Aerith: Tifa will make a good wife~ Cloud: I wonder who… Tifa likes?

…

Cloud: Sorry Tifa… Even though I’m on the edge I can’t keep the promise Aerith: Hm? Hmm? What is this promise you talk of?

…

Cloud: What…? Or I should say I wasn’t listening

Aerith: Tifa’s amazing isn’t she! Right, Cloud? Aerith: Come on Cloud… you have to say something to her Cloud: …I’m not good at it  

[otp-oasis-heavenxearth]

Dear girl Tifa (@clotiOTP) Tweeted:

Cloud isn't a jerk. Aside from Tifa, he cares for everyone esp. whom he thought were the vulnerable ones at the time https://t.co/Jhn2Oh2gZL https://twitter.com/clotiOTP/status/1280239660585779200?s=20

https://twitter.com/clotiOTP/status/1280239660585779200?s=20

A REMINDER FOR THE FANDOM THAT THE DEVS MADE CLOUD SELFLESS AND KIND

And both Aerith and Tifa KNOW this

That's why you ship him with Tifa is it not?

That's why you ship him with Aerith is it not?

Because he's got a heart of gold. With everyone. Whether he's romantically interested in them or not.

Stop twisting his character for the sake of your ship. Cloud wants to help people. It's second nature to him. To the point he literally falls apart when he can't save someone he was tasked to protect. He does the same thing with a SHINRA SCIENTIST he doesn't even know because that's what he does. He is a hero at heart. He just isn't aware that he is.

His own words about himself are: "I pity you, you just don't get it at all. There's not a thing I don't cherish!"

So get it straight people.

Cloud Strife on the surface looks cold and he's bad with opening up to people and puts on a facade of being a hardass. But NEVER FORGET Cloud Strife caring about the well-being of EVERYONE is the canon (except Hojo and President Shinra cause F those guys)

It's always been the canon.

Always.

ALWAYS.

[iaintyourbro]

YES YES YES

I HATE THIS ARGUMENT. “Cloud was mean until X Chapter. Cloud didn’t care about anybody else except X.” NO. He cared for a lot of people. Here’s Cloud caring for people.

Barret’s Resolution

When Wedge saves him

Cloud seeing Wedge is safe

Cloud seeing Jessie’s dad. No emotion at all, guys. None, just a cold hearted bastard.

Nope, he doesn’t care at all.

Cloud wasn’t laughing at Wedge’s joke here at all.

Cloud nodding to Barret to help the woman out from under the rubble after the Sector 7 collapse

Cloud when he thinks Biggs is dying.

Cloud when he thinks Jessie is dying.

Telling Barret about Jessie and Biggs...

[silver-wield]

[otp-oasis-heavenxearth]

Response: Why I think Clerith doesn’t work.

Heej, 

You asked me why I think Clerith doesn’t work as a plotpoint, so I figured I’d try to reply here.

Before that though, I’d like to mention that when I said that I didn’t think both ships were equally valid, I meant that specifically about whether or not it’s reasonable (valid) to consider them canon. Unfortunately, the character limit forced me to be imprecise for the sake of brevity.  

As a personal fantasy or preference, I think all ships are valid sure, although I don’t believe all reasons are equally good, for an extreme example, someone might for instance ship the Joker and Harley Quin, and though I love to see their dynamic, and love them as a couple in fiction, I don’t think that someone who’d defend their pairing as an actual desirable thing because of the virtues of their relationship will have as good an argument as someone saying that say, the old couple from “up” had a desirable relationship. 

Tastes can, in some ways, be wrong, or at the very least detrimental.

I think this is a minor thing though, not worth quibbling about, but since you went through a lot of effort addressing it, I felt a response was in order.

About Clerith as a plotpoint. For me, when I look at a story, I look at how everything fits together. I look at the why of character actions, the events of a story, the morals and themes being told, and about why the designers chose to do certain things.

For an unrelated FFVII example, I’ve pointed out that in remake, Aerith never tells Cloud she’s an ancient, but when Elmyra finds out you know she’s an ancient, she assumes Aerith told you and must therefore trust you, which helps her trust you.

I find that conversation very interesting. People have pointed out that there wasn’t ever really a chance for Aerith to say it, and that they’re sure she WOULD have. But that’s not what interests me. Because while that would be true in real life, in a game, this has to have been a conscious choice by the developers. There WAS a time for her to tell him, because the developers can just decide to MAKE time. So while this omission might be unimportant IRL, it becomes interesting when there’s thought and reason behind it.

All these reasons, motivations, and themes, both from characters and developers, all work together to create a flowing tapestry, an idea of a tale. Often when something is ambiguous, you will find that one interpretation of that event goes perfectly along with the flow of the tapestry, while a different interpretation goes against the overall flow of the tale. It might lessen the impact of a different point of the story, it might go against the themes and morals being conveyed by a different part, and so on. In general, it tends to make the entire tapestry lose cohesion, focus, and beauty.

Even when there are exceptions to this, and some twist or revelation throws the entire tapestry into chaos, a deeper look often reveal that what you thought was the tapestry was just a smaller part of a much grander whole.  

When I say Clerith doesn’t work as a plotpoint I mean that I feel that at virtually every point, the interpretation that Aeriths place within the plot (not narrative) of the story is as a love interest for Cloud doesn’t mesh well with the tapestry. Even if individual arguments could be made for why any certain thing works in isolation, the reading just doesn’t work with everything else we know, even things that are seemingly not related to the LTD.

Aerith as the love interest requires us to denounce Tifa as a love interest, not because you can’t love 2 people, but because Aerith being dead puts us in a state where the only way she can continue serving the role as a love interest is if she fundamentally dominates Clouds heart over the woman who is actually with him. 

That means that we have to start saying ridiculous things like “Cloud only had a childish crush on Tifa, which he grew out of”.

But narratively speaking that doesn’t fit with the role and placement of Clouds love confession within the game, both chronologically speaking, and narratively speaking (concerning motivations).

It happens near the end, during a twist reveal, implying that this is a important factor NOW, for the resolution of the game and is meant to change the way we perceive earlier interactions. The interpretation that this confession is no longer relevant doesn’t flow naturally with proper story telling conventions.

It’s like revealing that “yes, there was a Chekovs gun….but it never fired, so it doesn’t matter”, if the Chekovs gun never fired, the reveal has no purpose.

The more I look at Clerith, the more I find that at every point I have to go against the tapestry to get it to work. Yes I can get it to work as a disney princess fantasy romance….I understand these arguments when people make them, but I also see that the disney princess fantasy romance goes against the tapestry of the bleak story that is FFVII, and its plot of requiring Cloud to accept reality and that he’s not a “fantasy hero”.

When I am told that Aerith was clearly over Zack and loved more I can’t help but see how that doesn’t work well with the revelation that Cloud was Zacks living legacy. It requires me to assume that this part of the story has no bearing really on the tragedy and nature of Cloud and Aeriths story except for as an explanation as to their initial attraction. But if that’s the case, why on earth is such a mundane thing given SOO much attention as a reveal? Reducing Zacks important makes no sense when looking at the tapestry as a whole, and diminishes the tragedy of three characters and makes everything we know about them unbelievably strange and unlikely. 

So Aerith is still wearing Pink waiting for Zack and talking about Zack but now she prefers this dude with brain damage in a week and you’re telling me that is NOT because she’s using him as a stand in for the guy her heart actually yearns for? You’re telling me the dude she loves after her ex LITERALLY being her ex’s living legacy is mostly just a coincidence and didn’t really factor into her feelings for him? This does not flow!

And while most of these individual interpretations are seemingly small discrepancies in isolation, and can usually be argued away, they build up into what I can only consider to be a bad interpretation of the story of FFVII, which mostly comes to light when you look at the arguments you often receive when talking about Advent children.

Not only does keeping this interpretation alive usually require people to flat out insult Tifa, but it also requires them to straight up misrepresent Clouds stated motivations as well as outright deny the conclusion and character resolutions of the movie.

Instead of Aeriths role in the movie as being a representation of guilt for Cloud, with his journey being about learning to forgive himself and move on. I am instead told that Cloud is not driven by guilt, but by love, that he doesn’t love Tifa, is pining over Aerith, and that at the end of the game, that he goes looking for Aerith.

A interpretation that goes directly against every theme of coping with loss, moving on, accepting reality, accepting weakness, and every other thing that FFVII points towards, not to mention that it makes Cloud a horrible person who plays with Tifas emotions, abandons children, and doesn’t learn anything throughout the movie since this interpretation has him ending the movie the same way he started.

This is what I mean when I say Clerith fails as a plotpoint, because it doesn’t fit the tapestry, at every point it needs to be twisted and mutilated in order to get it off the ground. Even if the story was romantic when we don’t consider everything around it, it doesn’t work when viewed through the lens of FFVIIs reality, and reality, in FFVII, is important. 

____________________

Thank you for your submission.

I think you make good points on why CA could never be endgame. However I’m confused whether you mean Cloud having feelings for Aerith at all wouldn’t work in the plot at any point? Or do you mean the interpretation him loving her as well as Tifa? Or True Cloud loving Aerith? Vs. SOLDIER Cloud? Because I think that’s an important distinction.

I think it can’t be said even within the plot that Cloud wasn’t at least infatuated with Aerith.

The canon choice for Marlene saying she thinks Aerith likes him is “let’s hope so.” He never actually declined her date, he doesn’t turn her down when she flirts, he goes along with her flirting in the Shinra cell “Hey, I’m your body guard, right?” In Cosmo Canyon he says “But I…. we’re here for you.” Implying he at least has a crush and wants to be there for her here.

In my view of things Cloud had romantic feelings for Aerith when he was still his SOLDIER self. I think falling for the love of the man he was mimicking makes sense in terms of the theme of illusion. Especially if he’s ironically Zack’s living legacy and replacing him in his mind as well as unknowingly living his life.

And I think SOLDIER Cloud can have these feelings as during that time he was unaware if his feelings for Tifa.

True Cloud is the one at the end who’s always loved Tifa so while it might be conflicting he wouldn’t question his love for Tifa in the end.

I don’t think like many seem to that SOLDIER Cloud falling in love with Aerith would negate True Cloud from loving Tifa just given the situation.

Considering Remake has Aerith say “you can’t fall in love with me” I think it’s very out of place if it’s not reffering to the fact that he did indeed fall in love with her. At least in the original game. If all he felt was friendship or sisterly love this makes no sense.

Also his response. “Do I get a say in all this?/That’s all a bit onesided” he is not in love with her here he’s confused at her assumption so it implies she’s talking about OG not this moment. But also I noticed he doesn’t go “No” either he also doesn’t get defensive because it doesn’t effect him in the same way her asking if Tifa was his girlfriend did. Because he probably literally never thought about this himself. It never occurred to him.

However she also says it’s not real/in your imagination. The developers have also confirmed she’s talking to SOLDIER Cloud in that scene while in Tifa’s Scene it’s True Cloud.

So to me that confirms that SOLDIER Cloud had feelings for Aerith in the original game not currently and that’s what she’s bringing up. It’s not a warning in general, it’s for the future because something in OG told her he fell in love with her or at least thought he had. Suki is used instead of ai. Implying it was falling for her in the sense of infatuation which matches with what I said about OG.

Nojima speaks of Aerith is a possible what if when reffering to Tifa and Cloud’s relationship. “Perhaps things would have gone better with Aerith…” In the context or love, marriage, and family. Implying she must have been someone who in an alternate scenario Cloud would have considered being in a relationship with. Not neccesarily that she would have been the better choice as he followed up with “but her responsibility is too great I think” but that she would have been a choice at all, is the takeway there.

Cloud had to be interested for this what if to be even plausible.

Case Of Tifa and Advent Children Reunion files treat Aerith like an “old flame” in the narrative. She’s reffered to as a love rival in the Ultimania. Tifa is reffered to as being jealous of the “world Cloud and Aerith with building” in Japanese this is used to describe people when they’re infatuated with eachother. And finally the way Cloud tries not to tell Tifa he went to Aerith’s church implies a relationship where a husband doesn’t want bring up an ex girlfriend around his wife. It’s not the literal situation but that’s how it’s treated even by True Cloud. The devs even go as far to say Tifa feels conflicted as she feels Cloud’s not merely dragging the past around but the reason might have to do with Aerith, that she holds complicated feelings as a woman towards Aerith. This has to be for a reason. Bringing this up with no basis makes Tifa seem jealous for no reason and petty. Also this didn’t need to be mentioned, it could have just said she’s upset he’s dragging his past. But to specifically point this out in a section that focuses on Aerith as a love rival implies she had to have been in the running.

Tifa’s not delusional nor is she petty. Cloud is not a jerk who hides things either.

So based on that it implies what Cloud felt for Aerith was not platonic.

It’s like a love in the past tense narrative wise.

That’s how it’s presented. And considering these materials deal with a time where Cloud is back to his old self again, the self that knows he loves Tifa this wouldn’t need to be brought up again.

But it is.

So based on Aerith’s statement and all this my conclusion is Cloud during his brief time with Aerith fell in love with her. But because of the circumstances it literally couldn’t go anywhere. He wasn’t himself for one, he had forgotten he already loved someone for another, he was living out the life of her love, she’s his best friend’s girl, he’s completely OBLIVIOUS to her own feelings for him, he only knew her for like 3-4 weeks and on TOP of allll that she DIES.

There was never any time or hope to get anywhere for “falling in love” (infatuation) to become real lasting love. It can’t compete with what he has with Tifa so I think it’s safe to admit this without diminishing his relationship with Tifa.

Like I could have stayed long term and married my exboyfriend. But I didn’t. I later I got into a relationship and married my husband. My relationship with my exboyfriend and how I felt or didn’t feel about him doesn’t impact how I feel about my husband.

Cloud has always loved Tifa so this applies even more so. What he felt for Aerith can’t diminish what he feels for Tifa. No matter if he was making wedding plans right before the LifeStream scene.

And I’m sure when he realized she was Zack’s love, when he felt the guilt and especially when he realized his live for Tifa he didn’t see his relationship with Aerith the same way. There’s literally no way he could have. He was also oblivious to her feelings for him so as far as he knew he fell for her but it was one sided. So I doubt with alllll of that he’s going to continue carrying a torch for her, he probably didn’t understand what those feelings were considering the situation. Because when we really think about it he is mentally 16 and is having to come to terms with everything his SOLDIER self experienced that might differ from his own experience. So he probably deemed it as hopeless and he was certain what he felt for Tifa. Thus he doesn’t question it like Tifa does.

I don’t think any of this really ruins the tapestry as it shows him moving out of the illusion anyway by embracing a certain reality over a what if.

As for Aerith the devs did say at first she’s interested in Cloud only for Zack but does have affection for him. She also says she wants to meet him. I think Aerith was trying to move there because she’s starting to fall for Cloud. She just never really gets the chance for it to go anywhere either.

No matter how you slice it the feelings being there don’t a relationship make.

So that’s what I meant about the plot point. Them both finding something in eachother but instead of what they thought it would be it leads to Aerith fulfilling her destiny and Cloud finding himself and his true happiness.

The bond is still important to the plot. Even if the romance was doomed.

Would love to your thoughts on this and o Remake, which as I said has Aerith doing things differently.

[iaintyourbro]

So let me just point out the part that made me crack up because it’s so true:

So Aerith is still wearing Pink waiting for Zack and talking about Zack but now she prefers this dude with brain damage in a week and you’re telling me that is NOT because she’s using him as a stand in for the guy her heart actually yearns for? You’re telling me the dude she loves after her ex LITERALLY being her ex’s living legacy is mostly just a coincidence and didn’t really factor into her feelings for him? This does not flow!

This seems like two people wrote it, so I think the part above is @otp-oasis-heavenxearth​ and the second part is another writer. I apologize - I didn’t notice a user name before I reblogged this. 

And I think SOLDIER Cloud can have these feelings as during that time he was unaware if his feelings for Tifa.

I think Remake is clearing up the whole SOLDIER vs Real Cloud thing. Real Cloud shows up sometimes. They’ve said that - the two times that are confirmed by the devs is in Chapter 13 when he sees Barret comforting Tifa and in Chapter 14 during Tifa’s resolution. 

(This is the moment right before he actually lifts his arms to hug her.)

Cloud slips in and out of the two, with SOLDIER!Cloud being the dominant personality. Remake does a good job of showing this internal persona struggle through his facial expressions - specifically his eyes. True!Cloud briefly emerges around Tifa. SOLDIER!Cloud shows a heavy desire to protect Tifa. 

So I wouldn’t say he’s unaware of his feelings for Tifa, even before the Lifestream. 

Case Of Tifa and Advent Children Reunion files treat Aerith like an “old flame” in the narrative. She’s reffered to as a love rival in the Ultimania. Tifa is reffered to as being jealous of the “world Cloud and Aerith with building” in Japanese this is used to describe people when they’re infatuated with eachother. And finally the way Cloud tries not to tell Tifa he went to Aerith’s church implies a relationship where a husband doesn’t want bring up an ex girlfriend around his wife. It’s not the literal situation but that’s how it’s treated even by True Cloud. The devs even go as far to say Tifa feels conflicted as she feels Cloud’s not merely dragging the past around but the reason might have to do with Aerith, that she holds complicated feelings as a woman towards Aerith. This has to be for a reason. Bringing this up with no basis makes Tifa seem jealous for no reason and petty. Also this didn’t need to be mentioned, it could have just said she’s upset he’s dragging his past. But to specifically point this out in a section that focuses on Aerith as a love rival implies she had to have been in the running.

Tifa’s not delusional nor is she petty. Cloud is not a jerk who hides things either.

So based on that it implies what Cloud felt for Aerith was not platonic.

It’s like a love in the past tense narrative wise.

First, I’ll get this out of the way, because FFVII isn’t a Disney princess story: Love is a really strong word to use in a romantic sense for Cloud and Aerith. Crush, infatuation, curiousity, yes. He knew her for a month. He didn’t spend ALL of his time with her - he had a whole group following him around that he interacts with. I’d say the same for Tifa. He doesn’t just talk to Tifa. He talks to everybody and deals with everybody - his focus wasn’t solely on Tifa OR Aerith.

I find it, rationally, very hard to think he fell in love with her considering all of that. I never got the impression he fell in love with her. Did he think she was pretty? Well, I hope so, cuz if not then he’s weird, but I think people are pretty too. I’m not going to divorce my husband and go date the first woman I thought was pretty, right? Or think of them for the rest of my life?

As for the love rival piece: Cloud himself was completely oblivious to either of the girls’ feelings. The girls were aware that the other had feelings for Cloud, but Cloud himself was oblivious. I would say that a girl that likes a guy I like is my love rival whether or not I knew if the guy I like also likes the other girl. In Cloud’s case, they never confirm his actual romantic feelings for Aerith. The only person they confirm he has feelings for is Tifa. 

I can’t speak the the “world Cloud and Aerith were building” piece because I’ve never heard this referenced before to be honest with you. 

I did not get a feeling at all of Aerith being an old flame. I felt it was pure guilt. Them adding Zack in to more scenes was supposed to reinforce that. Tifa is upset about Cloud going to Aerith’s church because of the whole guilt problem he has. 

He can’t let go. Look at how he handled Tifa falling down Mt. Nibel. He tore himself apart over it, hated everyone around him, got in to fights, and ultimately decided he’s going to become incredibly strong and a “hero” to win Tifa over - to be good enough for her. This is all in his mind. Tifa was fine with who he was. He created this illusion in his head that he could only be accepted by Tifa if he was strong enough. 

The guy is in his own head most of the time. He didn’t tell Tifa about any of this because, like Mt. Nibel, he thinks it’s his fault and he needs to fix it himself. 

With the way Remake is presenting Cloud AND Aerith, any romantic interest from either party would truly make no sense and feel forced or thrown in. I still feel like OG Cloud and Aerith was a very forced attempt of romance that I never picked up on. It was subtle. 

I also have a really hard time thinking Cloud walked around for that long pining over a girl he knew for a month while he was completely mentally unstable. It makes a lot more sense that guilt of seeing his friends die drove him down that spiral.

In Remake, they really downplay Aerith’s potential feelings for Cloud in many ways:

When she first meets Tifa she makes it clear her and Cloud are friends. In OG she kind of plays this game of “yes I was the one WITH Cloud” to infer something further. There’s the start of the rivalry.

Aerith quickly “attaches” herself to Tifa. In OG she mainly only addressed Cloud. In Remake she starts to address Tifa more than Cloud.

They make it pretty clear she still has a thing for Zack. Further, while on the Midgar Expressway and we get to see Zack, she obviously saw or felt it too, based on her reaction. At the end of the game, she also felt him. I think you’re going to see her trying to figure out where he’s at or why she can sense his presence that intensely - that’ll replace any romantic time with Cloud, is my guess.

They completely removed the prison scene where Tifa finds out that Aerith asked Cloud on a date. Aerith says the date happens during Chapter 8, so no future date is planned. They left the open ended date open for Tifa, though, because they never get to go out and celebrate their reunion.

Aerti replaced a lot of the CA moments… which I’m not complaining about because Aerti is super cute and adorable. Aerith and Tifa seem to be the two building the strong bond this time, which makes sense, to me. If you want to show positive female empowerment, this is the way to do it. Even if the said flat out that Cloud and Aerith didn’t have feelings for eachother… people can’t help but put opposite sex friends together in these situations. I mean, we all put Tifa and Aerith together too… but nobody fights about it. 

Aerith even passively acts as a wingman for two of the densest people ever - like the above scene where for some reason she has to tackle Tifa back in to Cloud, who gladly catches her. “Here you go, Cloud.” “Thank you for this wonderful gift.”

I think that’s why Remake is SLAMMING the Cloti story in our faces. Something that I never expected for either ship, honestly. FFVII itself wasn’t romantic. FFVII Remake has a ton of thirsty/romantic scenes. Probably why the fanbase has all needed to go to horny jail… but I digress…

The other reason that I really have a difficult time with any type of romance between Cloud and Aerith:

Zack Fair

Yes, my boy Zack. Zack meant a lot to Cloud. Like, looking at their relationship is intense. They were true bros in every sense of the word except by blood. Cloud wouldn’t have lived without Zack. There’s so much that Zack did for Cloud as a friend, even before the whole mako tank problem, and you can’t ignore that. OG does a terrible job of really talking about it, so we got Crisis Core to cover it all. Cloud legit was the happiest I saw him that entire movie to hear Zack’s voice. 

In OG you can see a short flashback of Zack dragging Cloud out of the tank and to Midgar. It’s optional and missable - if you don’t go back to the Shinra mansion basement after the Lifestream, you’ll never know it was there. I guarantee you those things will be part of the main story line in Remake. 

But that’s all you get. Zack saved Cloud, Zack died, Cloud took stories Zack told him, other experiences they had on the road, Jenova saw Tifa’s memories of Cloud, and they created SOLDIER!Cloud once he “woke up” in Midgar. 

I can’t see Cloud going for his best friend’s girl. Not just because it’s his best friend’s girl, but because in order to remember Zack being his best friend, he’d have to have all of his other memories too, which would give him the full Tifa picture… all of the memories associated with Tifa. (Note: What I said about about him not being unaware of his feelings for Tifa. He doesn’t know what it is, but he knows there’s something about her. I don’t see that as totally unaware - Real Cloud is driving him at times in a certain direction…. I don’t know if that makes sense…but I didn’t want to fully contradict myself down here).

Here’s more on Zack and Cloud: Why Zack is Important to Cloud

Then there’s Aerith and Zack. OG does a terrible job of explaining their relationship and how long it actually was. I think this was another “correction” in Remake. When she first brings it up, she says it wasn’t serious. This, I think, is to get the player to think oh I’ve got a chance. 

Problem is, Aerith was in some serious denial. She sensed Zack had died (and it was not long before this, considering the timeline from when Zack is killed to when Cloud shows up in Midgar) but she never had it confirmed. This is why I think she starts asking Cloud in Remake if he knew anybody before they even get to the park. 

She also says “He was the first guy I ever loved” in Remake. Making it sound much more serious and much more intense than OG did. You only find out she loved him if you bring Aerith to Zack’s parents house in Gongaga. Missable. Not required. 

Here’s more on Zack and Aerith: Why Zack is Important to Aerith

So I can see why players can “create their own” story with FFVII. You can just ignore or miss key points about things. 

You can bring only Aerith around in your party and exclude Tifa so it looks like only Aerith talks to Cloud… then it gets weird, though, cuz after she dies and you don’t say anything about it… like you go snowboarding and all and go see Sephiroth… Suddenly it’s only Tifa’s opinion that matters.

And you’re like… hold up…. what? Where’d this come from? If you never have Tifa around, this comes out of left field. Tifa is a mandatory party member at this point, too, of course.

And keep in mind, not once after you leave the Forgotten City and this point is Aerith mentioned between that. Not once. I do hope they fix that in Remake because it legit makes no sense. Nobody is gonna say anything? Nobody is gonna be sad? We’re gonna go snowboarding? (I mean I hope we do, but can we at least have a scene in the Inn where like Tifa walks off cuz she’s completely torn apart about Aerith dying? Like, I feel that they’re gonna be upset. Their friend was just murdered. In front of them.)

So you could also ignore Aerith and bring Tifa around only with Barret. Then you have her in your party for the ToA and that’s the only time after you leave Midgar that it’s forced to have her in your party. 

This doesn’t do as much weird shit as only bringing Aerith. You don’t have any special scenes with Aerith later on. The dream you have before she leaves you forever is her pretty much telling you she’s going away. Then Sephiroth shows up in that. That doesn’t feel too out of place if you barely talk to her. She had the biggest connection on her end with Cloud. 

Aerith was trying to relive her moments with Zack… the ones that were precious and fleeting. With a guy who has the same sword, same clothes, and same eyes. Is that to say Aerith doesn’t grow to like Cloud for Cloud? No, but she never meets real Cloud. She dies way before that happens. And Cloud was terrible at helping her relive some of her cute moments with Zack, btw.

She says she wants to meet real Cloud on the GS date (if you get it…) but Cloud is like wtf does that mean. 

In Remake, they took care of that during her resolution, except she just flat out tells him if he thinks he has any feelings for her, they aren’t real. 

So you can take this as “CONFIRMED! HE LOVED HER IN OG!” Like I see a lot… but she just said they weren’t real if that’s the case. Like fake. Cuz Cloud is “fake” right now. He also has known her for like 2 or 3 days in Remake, at this point. 

That’s not to say that Real!Cloud forgets what happened during SOLDIER!Cloud. I took a lot of what Aerith said and what was talked about in OG when Cloud explains what happened to him as he’s uncapable of developing true feelings for anybody. Real Cloud ultimately holds the decision on that. If it was that SOLDIER!Cloud disappears and any memories along with it, then he wouldn’t even know who Aerith is. We know that’s not true.

But all this can be summed up by my husband, who doesn’t give a shit about shipping: “I don’t get why people can’t just think they’re friends. Like you can’t be upset about your friend dying? You have to be in love with her or have some romantic feelings? I mean, she got impaled in front of him. I’d be upset too. I’d especially be upset if right before that I almost killed her.”

And, it’s all because its a guy and a girl. If it was two guys, you wouldn’t see nearly as much discourse. Or two women. 

And @otp-oasis-heavenxearth​ I absolutely loved your write up on this and how you explained it… I really did enjoy reading it!

[otp-oasis-heavenxearth]

@iaintyourbro I wrote the bottom part lol. The top is a submission from dutchdread who did an excellent video on narrative vs. plot. Which is facinating and I recommend everyone to check out

My response is based on that narrative vs. plot wise.

I think we can’t think of them as just friends in the narrative because the narrative has Aerith saying things like you can’t fall in love with me, and the Ultimanias have the word love rival. Why have that if we are supposed to think of them as friends? Clearly they want us to believe the love rival thing for the illusion to work.

So narrative wise she’s supposed to be seen as not a platonic friendship but a possible love interest. Especially with Nojima’s comment. I can’t tell if that what is part of the narrative or his own way of saying, “yeah maybe but no”.

But I’m asking if plot wise would a romantic infatuation from SOLDIER Cloud work without it diminishing what he has with Tifa specifically in the OG specifically. Not Remake as I think Remake is completely different and I don’t see that happening this time around.

And I think an infatuation is plausible based on everything I said. But infatuation doesn’t a love make. I said it works as part of the illusion which is still narrative but it could also be part of the plot depending on what they were going for.

But again I never said it was love, just in the narrative sense it’s painted as a past tense love.

Because you’re right it’s not a Disney movie.

Anyway would still love to know anyone’s thoughts on this. As I think both of you made excellent points.

[iaintyourbro]

Since I’m bad at the internet and doing this shit, I’m totally reblogging this again. I’ll keep my commentary, but I’m fixing the tags.

@otp-oasis-heavenxearth LOLOL! Sometimes I’m terrible at internet things. I still do like what you wrote, so I’m not taking it back.

The love rival part is where it could be just Tifa seeing her that way because she knows how Aerith feels, that’s all. Remake Cloud has seriously damaged my perception on how I felt before on this subject… and it’s a shame because I feel like I’d be able to think about it differently. 

I think infatuation on SOLDIER!Cloud’s part would not diminish anything on Tifa’s end, because he doesn’t actually pursue anything while he’s SOLDIER!Cloud with either of them. So you could say he had infatuation. Then he goes through the Lifestream and all that and he’s back.

Where I think things get weird is him “pining” or thinking it’s an old flame later on. It makes no sense to me. I feel like they really tried to start enforcing “it was guilt” as time went on with adding Zack scenes. Especially since those feelings were found while he was under the fake persona. 

I think you can say the player should have seen them as romantic so the impact was harsher when “the thing” happens to her. However, Cloud “keeping” fake feelings I think is where it stops for me. To me her line “it’s not real” is what hits. Yes, he may have had feelings for her in OG, but once the Lifestream happens, they aren’t legit anymore - they’re not real. Her saying he “can’t” fall in love with her is her saying that he isn’t capable of it.

So if that’s all true… why is he acting like it’s an old flame?

Now, on the other hand, I could see this: Cloud probably never told Tifa “it’s only ever been you” I highly doubt he could figure out how to say that. He probably also never told her “I didn’t love Aerith” or “I didn’t have feelings for her like that.” cuz it’s Cloud. (This goes in both directions, he never told Tifa either way).

Then they’re like alright lets give them a song for Remake called Midgar Blues and make it really obvious. (that didn’t work but they tried)

And I bet Tifa never asked. Cuz it’s Tifa.

So Tifa herself could have these feelings of thinking it’s an old flame because of shit communication and misunderstandings. Cloud would just be like “I’m super guilty about my friends dying” and Tifa could be like “He is going there because he still has feelings for her.” 

It adds to the drama to never confirm how Cloud felt. And it also fuels the ship war. I’m going to guess they’re going to confirm Cloud’s feelings in Remake. Like slam in your face - whole goddamn monologue (that’s like 10 seconds cuz it’s Cloud). I don’t think they’re going to allow player interpretation of his true feelings to have much room here. 

[silver-wield]

So Aerith is still wearing Pink waiting for Zack and talking about Zack but now she prefers this dude with brain damage in a week and you’re telling me that is NOT because she’s using him as a stand in for the guy her heart actually yearns for? You’re telling me the dude she loves after her ex LITERALLY being her ex’s living legacy is mostly just a coincidence and didn’t really factor into her feelings for him? This does not flow!

Yup. This. Thank you.

And a lot of what gets me is this mixing and matching scenes from OG that no longer appear and stuff in Remake that literally contradicts OG as well. Not to mention ultimania quotes that are also from scenes that no longer exist.

If they don’t happen in Remake people can’t argue them as canon because they don’t exist. This just feels like basic common sense to me.

Okay, Aerith is talking to soldier Cloud in her resolution, we all know that. The devs have said he’s soldier Cloud around Aerith. It’s a fact. And Aerith isn’t aware that a few hours before this talk, Cloud hugged Tifa. Real Cloud. But then, soldier Cloud is referring to it with the embrace line, showing he thinks he hugged Tifa, so there’s already this hint the two aspects aren’t following the OG counterpart because why would soldier Cloud think he did that if real Cloud took over? And we know he did because the devs confirmed it.

Aerith doesn’t know this. She obviously thinks remake Cloud is OG Cloud, which is fair and also explains a lot of her confusion when he doesn’t react how she expects. Still, she pushes ahead with her warning just in case.

Cloud didn’t need a warning because he’s not OG Cloud. He doesn’t share those same feelings for Aerith. He’s mostly irritated by her, but he’s a good guy and anyone who’s been tortured by Shinra is someone he’s gonna put himself out for. Look how quickly he bonded with Red. Course, Red has better manners than Aerith lol

So, we’ve got both Cloud and Aerith mutually rejecting each other in terms of any intimate plot development. This on its own should mean anything about Cloud being in love is nixed. Remake Cloud doesn’t love Aerith. Using OG Cloud as proof Remake Cloud does love Aerith pulls apart too much of what we’ve seen of Cloud’s individual development in Remake.

People can’t seriously look at him pulling moody faces, making verbal refusals, being a sarcastic butt and still conclude he’s in love with Aerith. Are they playing with the sound and subtitles off?

Honestly, my first playthrough I wasn’t shipping anything. I was excited for the game, but didn’t follow any of the media. Played it. Loved Tifa, as always. She’s my gurl forever. I thought Cloud was cute, great voice acting, excellent everything else.

Then I got to chapter 5 and was like oh that’s the game we’re getting. So, I braced myself for a load of annoying LTD nonsense when Aerith appeared. Didn’t happen. I did all the quests, got her best dress, and I kept waiting for stuff. Didn’t get it. Even in the cut scenes where I thought stuff was happening, I had a feeling something was off. Turned out later it’s clever camera angles and who is addressing who and who is answering.

To make a short point of it. I played with zero expectations and came away seeing a game heavily biased towards Cloud and Tifa. I wasn’t even that sure Cloud thought Aerith was a friend until I literally heard him admit it.

Sephiroth’s line about clouded eyes is so powerful because it fits everything. It’s the most meta line in the game and it comes from the villain. The guy who you expect to hate, so he’s just gonna say the thing and screw you if you don’t like it. If it came from Aerith it wouldn’t have that impact because people would take clouded and twist it.

[insanehobbit]

a twenty-five thousand word post about a twenty-three year old “debate”

As time goes on, I’m baffled that it remains a commonly held opinion that:

The LTD remains unresolved

SE is deliberately playing coy, and are (or have been) afraid to resolve it.

To me, the answer is as clear as day, and yet seeing so many people acting as if it’s a question that remains unanswered makes me wonder if I’m the crazy one.

So I am going to try to articulate my thought process here, not because I expect to change any hearts and minds, but more to get these thoughts out of my head and onto a page so I can finally read a book and/or watch reruns of Shark Tank in peace.

Afficher davantage

[yuyevons-child]

i keep coming back to this post i made several years ago (i was previously the obnoxious wanderlust-world), about the whole memetic legacy concept of ac/c. and today, i’m still making another meta based on the whole discussion! (when will i ever be tired…? lmao)

In one of AC/C scenes that’s often argued as showing Cloud’s preference for Aerith, Tifa in the English version was asking him “Which is it… a memory or us?”, a memory here supposedly referring to Aerith, and that Tifa is supposedly angry with Cloud in this scene for his pining over Aerith. 

But when we think about this in terms of the concept of “memetic legacy”, or what the producers explained as the “consciousness of the dead is what lives on”, Tifa wasn’t exactly asking Cloud to choose between pursuing the Aerith who passed, and her and the kids. She’s telling him not to immortalize and nail himself onto the memory of Aerith being killed by Sephiroth. I would even go as far as saying that perhaps, she doesn’t want him to turn Aerith into a memory - that particular memory. In the Japanese version, she was saying “Why do we have to lose out to a memory?”, as if she’s telling Cloud not to let Sephiroth beat them up through their memories of Aerith dying by his hands because that’s exactly how Sephiroth was able to get to their heads. 

So when he was able to kill Sephiroth for the 3rd (and hopefully, last time), Sephiroth was telling him “I will never be a memory”, and Cloud told him “Stay where you belong, in my memories” because he is now able to free himself from turning Aerith into just a memory of her death, so she could live on in his mind as something more - who she was when she lived (and arguably, this is also the case for Zack, and other deaths relevant to Cloud, caused by Sephiroth), as opposed to Sephiroth who he now boxed somewhere in the “not relevant” section of his memories lol. 

We can also see the same going on with Tifa, particularly when she said “Somehow, I knew you were there. Thank you”, as if she remembered that Aerith who once lived, would help Cloud - and everyone else, for that matter, in a pinch, and that it would make sense for her to be there helping him again, even if she has passed. 

At the end of the day, the whole memory vs consciousness that lives on is more about not turning someone dear into a wholly painful memory, but rather, to remember them as who they were alive. And this applies to everyone, but probably, more to Cloud.   

[otp-oasis-heavenxearth]

Thank you, for writing this, because all the yes!

[silver-wield]

i was talking to a friend who is a ffvii fan since '98 about the LTD and and I thought you might be interested. He told me that it was dead in the Remake. And his points were 1. C not being interested in A and how he is with T (the most important tbh). 2. Sector 5 being about Zack (im not sure about that cause i didnt play CC). 3. Jessie. And here he said that everthing shippy between CA, happened with Jessie first so to him didnt feel special (like all the CT scenes that he said are unique). 1/

The playground was about Zack, the high five was sweet but then T and A were doing it all the time and in his word 'if h5 are proof then AT are more valid than CA' 4. Aerith and her resolution. He always laughs when he reads the CA takes and theories cause the ship is dead both CA killed it and Tifa has nothing to do with it. 2/2

Zerith 1

Zerith 2

Zerith 3

Zerith 4

Zerith 5

Zerith 6

Zerith 7

Zerith 8

Zerith 9

Zerith 10

Zerith 11

Zerith 12

Zerith 13

Zerith 14

Zerith 15

Yeah, so I'm not a zerith shipper, I just like Zack and respect canon, so I did all of these without any ship bias for zerith. I could've just ignored all the obvious things in the game that prove Zack is a big part of things but I didn't ignore them because it's stupid to pretend he doesn't exist or have an important role to play.

Aerith spent all of chapter 8 pretending Cloud was Zack, and didn't like it when he got sarcastic and rude about it because her Zack isn't like that, but Cloud didn't care and just wanted to go home.

LTD destruction

Your friend is right about the scenes. This link is hilarious with how many parallels there are between Aerith and Jessie, and some with Wedge, too.

Unique scene isn't anymore.

Cloud canonically ditches Aerith in both OG and Remake.

Cloud ditches Aerith.

The devs made that rooftop scene less unique to Cloud's pov. He already crossed a bunch of rooftops in a more exciting way. He also still canonically ditches Aerith, and he does that several times.

Remake vs OG slide scene.

Remake slide analysis

Death to the LTD 1

Death to the LTD 2

Death to the LTD 3

Death to the LTD 4

Death to the LTD 5

I mean, if the evidence wasn't there then I couldn't list this much. Aerith in the JP for her resolution basically declares Cloud for him, then rejects him and he says how one sided that was. Because he was basically a prop during that. Same as in the language of flowers. He barely speaks or reacts and we don't get enough shots of him to establish he's participating in the conversation.

In the eng version of the resolution he asks if he gets a say because it's a callback to all the times through the game that Aerith ignored him. It's not him saying he loves her. It's asking if she'll even listen to him. Which she ignores, so that's his answer. And the JP says that heroic line is basically the same as picking up a friend from the airport. The eng gives Cloud the line because he wants to be thought of as a hero, even though he's a total dork.

And he's also in love with Tifa, so that puts paid to anyone else being with him. Not to mention Aerith has foreshadowed her death several times.

From her memories of you, and we know she associates the sky with it having taken away her loved ones. At the same time, it symbolises Zack, so she's conflicted in her feelings. She wants to move forward, but can't because she still loves him. So, she doesn't try and keeps on loving him. And we can see through the game that Aerith is unhappy because she gets teary eyed a lot.

She's hiding her grief behind a smile, while Cloud and Tifa are just doing their own thing separate from Aerith, because their relationship isn't threatened by Aerith being around.

Tifa and Aerith are friends. Cloud isn't interested in Aerith, and wouldn't be because he's all about Tifa at his core and Aerith is Zack's girlfriend. Cloud isn't a pos who'd go after his best friend's girl, and more importantly, Cloud is all about Tifa.

Remake is making things very clear.

Aerith loves Zack, who is currently listed as missing in the ultimania.

Zack obviously loves Aerith.

Cloud is still all about Tifa. His last concern in ch7 was her safety and the conversation between him and real Cloud involved her too. Not to mention everything else he does for her. And that real Cloud hugged her and wanted to before the event.

Tifa shows us she's more outgoing in her feelings to Cloud. She has the two scenes in chapter 7 and 17 that show her developing feelings for him. She won't let him down and doesn't want to lose him.

She can recognise him by the way he sits and they also have a ton of matching dialogue, poses, battle callouts, ability moves and even their limit breaks utilise their similar grace and fighting style. Hell, they even have similar walks.

It really is hilarious when people try and argue Cloud and Tifa have nothing when there's a mountain of in game proof saying otherwise, not to mention the Remake ultimania backs up the claims.

The narrative canon, which means we got alone at last which makes that narrative canon as well. So, this is the choice and Tifa's resolution is the main one we get. But of course they all occur, but in terms of which is more important to Cloud, it's this one.

Because Tifa.