In your opinion, what is TBoB about, 'thematically' for lack of a better word.
I'm very curious exactly what kind of answer you expected out of me here because this feels like a very vague question and coincidentally is one that perfectly hits my autism button in a way that makes me feel like you had a motive. I will answer this regardless
It's about being indoctrinated into a cult. I don't know that that's a "theme" per se, but I do think it's closer to the actual question you're asking.
There are other things involved like the background plot of Bill being a jilted lover, but the book is less about that so much as that aspect serves as flavor to emphasize the message of “don’t trust this guy, he will hurt you”. TBoB is about how even the worst person who you absolutely know is full of crap will suck you in by making you feel special and telling you that you can accomplish great things, but if you have a proper support structure in your life, you can get pulled out of it.
To an extent, I was always somewhat aware of this, but reading Combating Cult Mind Control for my piece in the @gfnonfictionzine really opened my eyes to the extent that the book follows the usual steps of cult recruitment and how well Bill is represented as a cult leader.
Join me now as I just tell you what happened in The Book of Bill, a book we all read 2 years ago 🤝
We open on Bill introducing himself, talking about his credentials, making himself sound big and important. He’s somebody who’s book you’re gonna wanna keep reading. By the way, do you have any idea how massive books are as cult recruitment materials? Anyways.
Once we’re introduced, he starts giving advice, showing us his superior view of the world, and it’s pretty clear he’s full of shit, but he’s also funny and entertaining, so you keep reading. You may come across a few things that you do actually agree with and you start to think hey, this guy kind of has a point? Now you’re gaining alignment with him. You’re thinking about him. Now he’s in your head.
Then he gives you his tragic backstory (which he can’t even do, funnily enough), explains his life, and lets you in on his mission, which you’re primed to agree with, right? He’s got all the best ideas and he deserves this, right? Weirdmageddon for Billy please? Please?
And usually that’s where a cult book ends, with you brought to their side and purchasing the next 17 volumes to learn more. If the book had gone the way it was supposed to, you may actually be on board, but the issue is that from the very beginning, we’ve been getting messages from Ford and the Pines family warning you against what he’s saying, throwing Bill off his game, and finally turning you against him completely.
The thing about cults is that they prey on lonely and vulnerable people who are lacking something in their life, be it purpose or security or most importantly, community. Cults are alluring because they promise instant, unconditional love and support, something deeply lacking in our modern lives due to a large number of reasons. The problem with cults is that the love and support is VERY conditional. You are not cared for, and because you are desperate to be cared for, they’re going to manipulate you into doing anything they want in order to get that diminishing return. At the end of TBoB, Bill promises you that you’ll get to rule alongside him in the same breath that he says he’s not sure if making a deal with him won’t instantly kill both of you– it’s an empty promise because he’s desperate to get what he wants. Much like any other cult, he doesn’t care about you, just about what you can get him.
What’s so particularly hilarious about this last point is going back to the jilted lover subplot, because the biggest thing (among many other things, to be clear) that shows Bill is an unreliable narrator is the fact that he failed step 1: don’t fall in love with the mark. Through his love for Ford, he reveals how he’s a fallible person rather than an all knowing god, he shows far more completely unrestrained vulnerability than anywhere else in the book (why share that police transcript??), and he reveals how easily he can be stopped. Like he blows up his own recruitment attempt just so he can bitch about his ex wife because even after 30 years, even after DYING, he’s too messed up to cope.
But getting back on topic, I don’t really know why Alex decided to make this book when he did, but the fact that it was made in the United States post Trump is pretty telling. Cults are bad right now, though cults here have always been bad. This place has been run by a death cult since its founding and only recently has fully started to drop the mask. To have a book like this come out aimed at younger audiences I think is a really wonderful thing. I hope it’s something that’s been helpful to people, and I have to assume it has been given the number of people who would come up to our Ciphertologist cosplay group to talk about the cults they personally escaped from.
You don’t get out of these situations without awareness and education, because the systems intentionally work to keep you too isolated and exhausted to think that there might be something better for you outside of it. More than anything though, you need support and community to keep you safe, which is why I really love the way the book posits the Pines family as a support structure and encourages people to be open about the things they struggle with and the people who have harmed them. Sharing keeps you from being isolated, it gets you out of the mental spiral that cult mentality relies on. Being loved by people really does save you.
And this is why Ford needs to break Bill out of the–
I've noticed that there's a big schism in the fandom between the billford fans who like human bill stories and the billford fans who are triangle bill truthers.
It's interesting though bc a lot of the human bill fans out there I've talked to will read every fic and love triangle bill as much as any other portrayal, and a lot of the triangle bill fans I've spoken to only read triangle bill fics and block, don't interact with or otherwise look down on alternative portrayals of Bill.
Just because I've noticed this split, it doesn't mean everyone has or feels the same way, so I want to I guess fact check myself here and get a feel for everyone else's feelings.
Do you think that...?
There isn't a schism you're overthinking things
There is a noticeable divide between human bill and triangle bill fans
Parallels and contrasts between Stan and Bill in the new book and website
Aka miscellaneous thoughts that I'm too lazy to condense into something comprehensible– what you see is what you get folks! (Book stuff, DVD commentaries! The website that came out when I was trying to write this out and is now making me pull my hair out! But in like a good way? That god damn poem!)
not necessarily same coin stuff but I sure am thinking about it.
It’s been said that a large part of Ford’s relationships with Bill, Fiddleford and Dipper was him trying to fill a hole that his estrangement with Stan had left, with none of them clicking in that same way. Dipper was directly compared to Fiddleford as someone who was completely charmed by Ford but is ultimately too anxious of a person to properly deal with the life he's offering nor pull him back when he starts going too far. Meanwhile, Bill is more analogous to Stan but to the extreme with all the doubts that Ford had been fed about Stan (that he was using him, he never grew up, he betrayed him, sabotaged the machine on purpose) turning out to be exactly true with Bill.
The book has Bill saying flat out that Ford wanted the charisma Bill had and then shows that at the peak of Ford's loneliness he was being envious of Stan's charisma, social skills and hands.
[STANLEY COULD HAVE MADE HER LAUGH]
(There’s an irony that Stan always thought that Ford was the popular twin even after doing embarrassing stuff like the kissing machine – if you haven’t seen the Swine Before Time Stan commentary get going, it’s great)
Then Bill swoops in with jokes and endless encouragement and the nickname only Stan used for him, all this in a way tailored for Ford to immediately like him while also reminding him of Stan but "better."
(The show rarely used it but Bill’s use of Sixer is extremely frequent in Journal 3 alone but the comics solidify it as being a pretty personal childhood nickname that kid!Stan used as his default way to call Ford.)
And then you see all of this working because Ford straight up writes Bill’s words using Stan's handwriting (and it turns out that Ford’s capital letter ‘for emphasis/angry’ font in general is the same as Stan’s handwriting too)
(It’s important to note that this is different from all the fonts that Bill uses for himself!)
All of this leads to the deja vu of Ford getting stabbed in the back by someone he was codependent on over a machine he thought was going to change his life for the better
Other things in the book that I’ve seen others point out and noticed myself:
Bill trying to reinforce that Ford would be alone without him, and threatening to tell Stan that Ford never loved him but the first thing Stan does in his letter is tell Ford that he loves him with their childhood code
Stan also only uses ‘Sixer’ in his letter when he normally tends to use a mix of nicknames post-Weirdmaggedon (sure it’s only twice but idk I find it noticeable)
Stan ripped a dollar in half when Bill taunted the reader earlier about how they wouldn’t do that
The promo photo vs the one in the book, Ford’s face being untouched vs Stan’s. While I initially interpreted this as “Bill’s book being a way to torment Ford” and then “him ending up having a meltdown at the thought of Stan”, the new poem kinda gives off an ominous vibe of "him moving on to focus on Stan instead whether he wants to or not"
Ford writing “miss you” in the bro code soon after arriving at Backupsmore which is shown in the Fiddleford photo, then Bill taunting Ford that he misses him
Bill and Stan now have another parallel of losing everything because of a genuine mistake but only Stan was willing to work to make up for it while Bill doubled down and became far far worse
The utter hatred Bill has for Stan being able to win in the end and get back his family
Both of them being institutionalized, with Stan’s mentioned in Guide to Mystery and Nonstop Fun (which has references to Bill liking Mabel for her chaos, silly straws, etc. Also Dipper basically came up with the Author theory but slightly wrong from theorising about the ink blot like a year before the Ford reveal)
(saturn devouring his son perfectly depicts my emotions when reaching this part of the book)
(EDIT: I was thinking about how Bill giving Ford three days to open the portal striked me as odd for some reason... and then I remembered;
Stan gave Mabel 3 days for their bet as well. Both of them specifically say 72 hours too.)
And now for the stuff we know from the website:
Bill having severe family issues with daddy issues implied since only his mum is mentioned directly with her trying to comfort him as a kid vs Stan having severe family issues with a definite focus on his dad while his mum was the only one to ask about Stan during that meeting with the principal and her being the only one to show up to his funeral
Both of them wear their dad’s hat despite of all of this
Bill starting a billion cults and has a lawyer called Multilevel Mark, Stan having his Scientology-esque cult being shot down by irl Disney and as a kid having his “technically a pyramid scheme” comic being shot down by a publisher
(I doubt that Stanentology would’ve gotten far but also you can see that a trend that the main way Bill gathers followers is by reading minds and revealing secrets only the victim would know, so let's hope that Disney-let-him-start-a-cult AU Stan never gets mind reading abilities)
Despite how we know how Stan is traumatised as hell from losing Ford, it’s noticeably isn’t referred directly in the Wheel of Shame (like you can’t tell me that the time between pushing Ford into the portal and starting the Shack isn’t as rock bottom as it gets, Bill literally recognises Stan in the first place by thinking about his brand). This probably is because Bill knows that they managed to repair their relationship and he’s fucking pissed about it.
There's further parallels between Stanley and Bill in poem; with lies and redemption and home, and further association with fire for the both of them
“Saw his own dimension burn.
Misses home and can't return.”
“Always dragged his family down.
One mistake, disowned, denied,
Only thing to do was hide.”
“One way out: the open road.
Reinvent, retry, reload.
A girdle, eyepatch, fathers fez,
"I'm a new man!" so he says”
“One way to absolve his crime.
A different form, a different time”
“His big break, it finally came,
Redemption from a life of shame.”
“Says he's happy. He's a liar.”
“Truth is just whatever sells.
When you've lost track of your lies,”
“Lie until you aren’t lying anymore”
Bill in a rotting corpse of a snake oil salesman
This triangle can fit so much self-loathing projection while being a hater
(Also it's funny that Bill is so insistent that Ford had to be the one who came up with the plan
Like look at this
See ‘em cogs turning in Stan’s head while Ford has clearly given up hope)
“How dare he dress up fancy when his jokes suck!!”
There's a parallel of Ford projecting onto Dipper in a way that makes him feel like kindred spirits with his nephew but Stan projects on Dipper in a way that causes him to be more harsh even if he has good intentions. Meanwhile Bill projects onto Ford in a more positive light in comparison to Stan, who in this case Bill wants to rip him and himself into shreds whenever he thinks of the guy. Bill’s shared love for fun/chaos with Mabel (despite them being so different at their core) is why he likes her the most out of all the Pines but that doesn’t stop him from trying to murder her (although I think most folks don’t know about that interview where Alex was like “yeah, I think Bill would’ve burnt Ford alive the moment he got the equation, he’s done playing with his toys at that point”)
Other tidbits:
I find it interesting that the full version of the Wheel of Shame has blue sparks and fades to grey scale (which automatically reminded me of his mindscape)
Stan signing off as Stanley in the book – this ain’t anything huge to chew on I'm just very over emotional about this… but also there’s Bill being called Billy by his family/in the codes
Ford thinking of Stan as childish/someone who never grew up and then we get hit by “yeah Ford always had some part of himself stuck at 18” oof
Ford underestimating Stan’s control over the mindscape, not knowing that he’s able to hide memories in Dreamscaperers, manipulate the layout of his mindscape enough to trick Bill and memory!Stan telling Dipper how to use the mindscape which Bill was genuinely surprised by
I'm headcanoning that Stan doing so bad at that history test is due to some latent bs from what Bill knows which is all crazy conspiracy level stuff
I think it's also intensely funny that all of the Pines promise that they'll murder Bill if they ever see him again and then they immediately turn to Stan and go “now it's your turn to write a letter! :D!!”
(I feel like the main requirement that the Theraprism has for Bill before he can reincarnate is mainly acknowledging his family idk which honestly would fit even better if his soul becomes Stan’s)
EDIT: I FORGOT TO MENTION THE OUROBOROS PASSWORD (or... uh oroborous which is a typo when theres a suspicious amount on the site which may mean somethng but i digress) anyway that leads to the Shack Axolotl lore where it bluntly states that Ford released it despite it showing up 30 years later anyway
Hullo! Just wanted to show my appreciation for the Knowing me, Knowing you series :D
Gonna be honest it is genuinely one of the best written fiction for me. I first started reading it at 2024, it was amazing but i got too scared to continue when i got to the chapter 34 and i was right to be terrified of it for 1 and half years because what was that chapter!! Anyway I was able to gather around my courage lately, i mean it just a fanfic how much it can hurt me right?? Then I restarted, I readed like 9 hours a day and finish it in a week and not regret most of my decisions because oh boy was i wrong? Just know that you did lot of a emotional damage i can't never heal from
Anyway as a show of gratitude (and result of him living inside my head rent free) i drew you Bill!! He never did anything wrong in his life ever and everyone who ever hurt him deserves to die
This is beautiful and I've just been staring at it in my inbox for a day because I love it so much. You're such a talented artist (he is so pretty!!!)
I'm glad you powered through chapter 34. I admit it does make me happy that the sense of dread it cultivated was enough to spook you for such a long time, since it means that the story did its job in getting you hooked on the characters and the stakes but I'm glad you came back to it since the stakes just get higher and the characters more complex from that point on.
The Bill you drew is very pretty so he gets a pass but Bill has done many things wrong in his life, but at least he gets to apologise for them in the sequel haha. This was so nice to get, thank you for enjoying the story and your wonderful art!
Since the whole fic is such a chronicle of all the different flavours of Billford across their lives, I had a plethora of moments to choose from but like any oldschool Billford fan, I keep going back to the penthouse scene. It was a toss up between it, the dream sequence in the last mabelcorn and the quadrangle of quonfusion cat and mouse chase for me, but I really can't go past the raw emotional intensity of the penthouse scene.
It really is when the last straw snaps and everything goes downhill, and I can't help but love it because of that.
There are a lot of billford moments in the penthouse scene that I love.
The way Ford is the only one brave enough to call out Bill's bullshit
How fed up with existence Bill is
How horny they both get for each other despite the circumstances
How Ford can't help but throw Bill's mistakes back in his face
How vulnerable Bill can be when he's got nothing left to lose
How obvious their similarities are, the truth behind their connection
And how, at the end of the day, their ideals keep butting against each other, both of them too stubborn to bend when one of them could break.
Just the entire tragedy of them both having a lifetime of love, hate, obsession, affection and understanding between them, and for all of those things to not matter, to not be enough when push comes to shove.
It kind of makes this:
Make this more tragic and impactful when we get there in the fic.
Because it means that in their battle of wills, Bill broke first. It means that it was enough to save the world, their love, but not enough to save each other.
Redemption is often conflated for sacrifice in stories, but what seems to be more true here is this.
Love is sacrifice.
And love redeems.
This is why the penthouse scene is my favourite Billford moment.
as basic as it is my favourite character is obviously bill. i think he is a creepy weird little creature who gives everybody the creeps if you stare at him for too long and that's the vibe that i wanted to depict. i hope i succeeded
he's the funniest guy ever
i drew him a thousand times before but every time felt like i didn't do him justice, and was too self conscious to post it. but today i decided that i'd finally step over my insecurities and finally share this little guy, as the occasion calls for it.
this fic is my favourite depiction of bill ever, it amazes me how he's so totally different from the way we know him in the show while simultaneously staying true to canon. the best thing about him is that throughout kmky he genuinely feels like a real person, he just feels so alive like he's going to jump up at me through the screen lol
i love him endlessly because of his depth and complexity, he has so many sides and personalities that are at constant conflict with one another and all the while staying true to himself and idk i just like him lots
he's so tragic and miserable and he's the sole reason for his misery and he's in perpetual state of suffering that is ironically self-inflicted and the consequences of his actions are so severe nobody suffers from them more than him. so sad to see him spiralling into self distraction and trying to get away from it by, guess what, more self distraction😭😭 like let him get a break damn
but he's also so much more than his sad backstory. he's a party animal, he knows how to have fun, he loves the stars, he loves to learn and to TEACH he loves to listen to old fashioned shit he loves cocktail umbrellas and silly straws and a million little things that make him feel more like a person than anything and he need SO bad to be loved its crazy if i go into a speech about all of this ill never shut up
But bill also feels me with so much hope because no matter what he went through he gets up and again and AGAIN so truly nothing can keep the guy down. he literally fights against the laws of time and space, against fate, against every obstacle and while he's not necessarily winning, he's not losing either! (i like to think that bill never loses, he just doesn't win sometimes:) )
he overcame death not once but TWICE and i bet he'd do it again lmao, and the massage that if bill can get better, so can anyone is just so beautiful i cant
he's the best. he's the worst. i love him more than anything bill never change (dude change please for your own sake and the sake of others)
