So for the most part, Alastor thinks he's got this. He smirks and gloats "he is too easy", he's convinced he's got Vox pegged, and he's completely confident in his plan.
But there's one part he clearly didn't anticipate: Vox turning the might of Lilith on him and trying to kill him.
He looks so shocked here. Completely taken aback. Almost hurt, even?
He gets badly injured. He's crawling away. His eyes look wounded, deeply upset. In pain. He obviously didn't anticipate this. He miscalculated.
Vox pulling a murder suicide just to beat him? That wasn't part of the plan, and when it happens, Alastor actually seems hurt and angry.
Why didn't he think this would happen? Why did Vox catch him by surprise here? Alastor clearly miscalculated something. Either A, he doesn't realize Vox was in love with him and therefore underestimated how badly he hurt him, or B. He did know and assumed that because of that, he'd be safe. Vox would never actually kill him, because he loves him and he needs him.
But now, whatever reassurance Al had is gone. Maybe he looks so hurt because he's received confirmation that Vox really and truly doesn't care about him anymore (or so he thinks). It almost seems like in his own way, Alastor now feels as rejected by Vox as Vox felt by him.
Basically both boys think "you never really loved me and you rejected me and broke my heart." The tragedy never ends. Poor bbs.
Every Charlie/Vox Parallel: Season 1 Episode 8 "The Show Must Go On"
The Big Damn Kiss.
(Note: I may slow down a bit with these cause the semester is starting up again and I'll be bussssyyyyy. I'll probably do more like once a month after the next one.)
Vox is finally back, so he and Charlie are in the same episode! We'll have WAAAAYYYY more of this in s2 omg they're actually going to talk to each other next season.
We actually open with Vox as he's watching the hotel crew get ready for the fight against Adam:
Vox himself is sitting in his office chair, watching them all while drinking from his mug. Vox: No fucking way! They're going to fight? Oh, my god. Hahahaha! Oh, looks like your little hotel didn't work out so well. Oh, Alastor, I cannot wait to watch you get FUCKED! Ahahahaha!
Which is kinda interesting because guess who else decided to try and fight against Heaven in Season 1?
Velvette: (in 1x03): WE can take the fight to THEM.
So yeah, Vox is basically laughing at Charlie and Alastor for doing exactly what he and the Vees planned earlier this season and will be doing next season. Less successfully we may add.
Anyway, we cut from Vox ranting about the source of his greatest feelings of rejection and pain to Charlie talking to Vaggi about the source of hers:
Charlie: *sighs* Oh, I wish my mom were here to see this.
C&V both basically launch a big attack on heaven - Charlie in self-defense (though at the same time Adam's explicit targeting of the hotel is a direct result of Charlie challenging him, something the other guests were grumbling about in 1x07, and the fight with Heaven in s2 is entirely Vox's idea/fault.) C&V both defy heaven and end up having to fight it, and both of them are in part thinking about their parallel character, Alastor and Lilith, and how this fight against heaven will impress them.
Vox of course famously spends this episode getting off to watching Alastor almost die on TV. The closest we get to Charlie having that kind of petty bloodlust is her kind of smug attitude about revealing the truth and out-foxing Vox in s2e08. Actually, Charlie spends a lot of 2x08 sitting around watching the drama unfold around her, just as Vox spends 1x08 watching her fight on TV. Basically their positions are reversed here: Charlie's fight with Adam in 1x08 mirrors Vox's fight with Alastor in 2x08, while Vox's petty bitch-fest in 1x08 mirrors Charlie's position in the s2 finale.
(And just as Vox occupies the role of the "nemesis Charlie's obsessed with converting" that Alastor has in Vox's life there, so he occupies it in this parallel. I'm sure a part of Charlie, were she prone to such graphic imagery, would've been screaming about being "so hard right now" when Vox got proven wrong. )
omg its the same poses
In 1x08 we see Chaggie and Staticmoth share their first on-screen kiss, confirming the sexual/romantic nature of their relationships (if there was somehow any doubt). Chaggie share theirs before the battle in Charlie's room as they sing a duet about their plans to fight heaven:
Charlie: I'm sorry... I'm... I'm just so scared. What if we lose?
Vaggie: ♪ You've, already done so much ♪/♪ So many lives you've changed ♪ /♪ So many souls you've touched ♪ /♪ And in the end, if it's only me you've saved ♪ Charlie and Vaggie: ♪ There's something that I've been dying to say ♪ /♪ More than anything ♪ /♪ More than anything ♪ /♪ Need you to know I love you more than anything ♪ /♪ More than anything ♪
Staticmoth share theirs after the battle in the tower as they sing a duet about their plans to take over hell:
Vox: ♪ After the battle, masterless cattle! ♪/Vox and Valentino: ♪ Overlords hanging by a thread! ♪/Vox and Valentino: ♪ With a bit of bravado, maybe tomorrow ♪/♪ We'll be atop the heap!
Interestingly, Staticmoth's duet is way more mutual; there's a lot more singing together about "we" "You and me" and "The Vees", while Chaggie's is mostly a song of affirmation from Vaggi to Charlie, telling her how great she is and reassuring her. Also, Chaggie's song recalls Charlie's duet of parental love with Lu while Staticmoth's is at least a little bit about Alastor.
Vaggie reassures Charlie that she's done well, affirming her - which is sweet, and probably the kind of affirmation Vox was lookin for pre-battle. But - as I noticed in the post about Vox picking romantic partners who will point out the problems with his plans, Charlie being surrounded by lovers and family who tend to constantly tell her how great she is can also be a bit of a problem, as we'll see in s2.
In 1x08 and 2x08, C&V both hit a breaking point in their rage when Adam and Alastor hit them where it hurts by essentially taking away their friends. Adam by killing Pentious, Alastor by taunting Vox into alienating Vel and Val - and his support. Both of them bulk up into their scary threatening personas and call on their pets, Razzle, Dazzle and Shok-wave, to help fight their battle. C&V both get their asses kicked pretty fast by their opponents due to their overly emotional way of fighting.
I noted that Alastor comes across kind of comparatively lame in this fight because he is not willing to either work with others or push through to fight for the people he cares about. C&V both work well together with the friends they lead into battle, and their willingness to call on them for help in taking on a stronger opponent - Charlie teams up with Vaggie, Razzl and Dazzle to fight Adam and Lute, and Vox calls on the Vees and show.wave to help fight Alastor at various points - keeps them alive, while Alastor's "there are no friends in hell" philosophy leaves him wounded and angry all season 2.
Charlie is then saved from being killed by Adam by her dad's interference, just as Vox is saved from going supernova (read: Kamikaze) by Vel and Val. Lu and Charlie fight together against Adam and beat him; in 2x04 when Vox fought alongside Vel and Val against Alastor, he was able to pin him easily, and it's implied past battles have similarly been aided because Vel and Val were there to help.
Lu, Val and Vel all seem to do this spontaneously. Charlie doesn't ask Lu for help and Vox didn't call on Vel and Val. Lu, Vel and Val all show up for Charlie and Vox in their near-death experiences because of the shared familial bonds they have, something Charlie had mended earlier in the season. Charlie and Vox in s2 will both take these bonds for granted and badly damage them in the interest of trying to impress, well, you know.
just realized, he's not doing it in this shot, but both C&V hug themselves in times of extreme emotion.
Charlie's initial lyrics of despair in "Finale" also include a repetition of the idea that she must constantly do something B-TTER:
Charlie: I know I could have done better ♪/♪ Better, instead of letting you down ♪
Vox: You'll be brighter, goin' supernova, all the eyes look up (at you, at you)
In 1x08 and 2x08 we see C&V hitting their moment of despair; Charlie feels she's failed because Pentious died, Vox feels he's failed because Alastor got out of their deal. Again in both cases it's the feeling of losing a friend that pushes them to extremes, in this case to grief.
Lu and Velvette are the ones to interfere first.
Lucifer: ♪ Come on, little lady, why the frown? ♪/♪ In the last 10,000 years ♪/♪ You're the first one to change this town! ♪/ ♪ You can do this! Now I know it! ♪/♪ For your story has just begun! ♪/♪ You can't quit now, hell, you owe it! /♪ There's still damage to be undone
Velvette kicks Vox off of the might of Lilith and tells him "It's Over"; while Ve land Val don't have a big talk about what needs to be done with Vox, there is most definitely damage to be undone from Vox's little rampage, so we may see a moment like this in s3.
Lucifer: ♪/♪ You've changed my mind, you've touched their hearts ♪/: ♪ Found the good in souls gone bad ♪/♪ The stage is wrecked, the crowd is gone ♪/♪ But by God, Charlie! ♪/♪ The show, it must go on! ♪
...Charlie: ♪ So long as I've got all of you with me! ♪
Vox and Valentino: ♪ Nature abhors a power vacuum ♪♪ It leaves room for you and me! ♪ /Vox and Valentino: ♪ The future of Hell belongs to the Vees! ♪
Both C&V end s1 surrounded by their families singing about their plans to properly rule hell and change things with heaven. Even share a trio group hug with their arms held by their two closest associates. The groups are, the narrative posits, a lot stronger fighting together than they are as individuals. These two parallel families end s1 in a good place, but s2 is going to create some real rifts between them thanks to C&V's shared ambitions to be Better/Brighter.
Of course, all of this is good setup for the real show of all C&V's parallels, which is s2. But we've got the pieces in place and their narrative parallels that season are way more straightforward. Their parallel stories are about pushing away the people in their lives who truly care for them in order to impress the person they want to be cool for the most, who is ignoring or belittling them.
C&V are both powerful, influential figures, who are mainly good at being charismatic, determined dreamers ambitious enough to challenge heaven itself. They're also both messy and filled with a bottomless put of self-loathing, egotistical and impulsive and damaged in ways neither one of them wants to admit to. They both have Latinx moth lovers whom they share a loving but at times difficult relationship with, long to be approved of by the first person they ever really loved (Lilith/Alastor) and are taking for granted the person they have in their lives who could take the place of what they wanted from said person (a loving parent in the form of Lu, a bestie and partner in the form of Velvette). They both end s1 poised for big things, and in s2 it all comes crumbling down.
Next season: C&V take a fall that gives Lu & Lil's a run for its money.
Go to the arctic, they said, it'll be fun they said....
Who thought taking this mysterious pod into the base was a good idea!?
Jack feeling left out of having fun with Arcee makes me sad. When are we gonna get more of these two hanging out?
Aw Raf that's adorable! I should probably be suspicious, anything this cute is probably gonna be evil in this universe.
Scraplets ok. That's a name I've heard in fiction before as something Cybertronians are scared of but with no details about what they are, so I guess this is my educational episode.
YIKES OMG HORROR MOVIE BULLSHIT OK. Getting on that TFA train of "Early episodes are grotesque murder shows"
There aren't gonna be any decepticons in this one are there. Dammit.
Like no shade to the heroes but we all know who we're really here for.
Raf really killed the hell out of that thing though. Primus help any deceptions who mess with Bee from here on out.
Anyway OP and Arcee are slowly dying in the arctic while these horror things tear apart the rest of the heroes. Yikes.
Miko why are you using "little girl (derisive)"? You are a little girl. I do like the development with her and Bulkhead here, a little bit of "behind the mask"
Arcee and OP have a sweet "if we don't survive" moment aww.
OP sure is having a tough time lately. First Cliff got killed, then his evil husband got blowed up, now he's dying in the arctic? Poor guy.
Him and Ratchet have kind of a sweet moment at the episode's end. I heard people ship these two, guess I see why.
Hazbin Characters' Era & Art Motifs Broad Theory of Thematic Character Groupings
So I'm basing these ideas somewhat off of @chopstickerz analysis of the characters artistic themes and ideas for the RadioVees' connection, but it got me thinking about how you might be able to organize most of the cast around the concepts of 1) Time Period and 2) Artistic/Performance medium. And it actually maps out pretty evenly if you split the cast into 5 main groups (Pentragram city after all)
The most obviously thematically connected are the RadioVees, who broadly map onto both Broadcast Media and the odd-numbered decades of the modern era: Alastor (1930s/Radio), Vox (1950s/TV, but also modern), Niffty (1950s/B movies), Valentino (1970s/Porn film), Velvette (1990s/Social Media) and possibly also Vox as 2010s/modern TV since he's shifted his motifs more to the contemporary.
Next up you have the Morningstar family and close associates, who have less obvious time periods and performance, but just to make a guess, they also map onto the next set of even-numbered decades and 3 of the 5 known members are associated with Theater: Charlie (1910s-era Music-Man style show-woman and Musical Theater), Rosie, who seems to be a big fan of the Morningstars (1890s-style Vaudeville), and Lucifer (early -Victorian possibly 1830s, Circus). Lilith might then be the 1870s, given her long elegant dress, and maybe classical theater. Vaggie belongs generally to this group in a sense as Charlie's girlfriend, but she's the least distinctly branded of any character in the cast and probably still looking for her identity. You could in theory map 1850s-style dance onto her.
A little more loosely grouped together, but organized to some extent around the even-numbered decades are: Cherrie (1980s, street/Graffiti art), Husk (vague decade, but Magic Shows), Angel (1940s, queer performance like porn and drag), Baxter (1900s and bioengineering) and Pentious (1880s and steampunk). Kind of a loosely connected group, but Husk/Angel - Cherrie/Pentious - Baxter, basically the non-current Overlord Staff and guests of the Hazbin Hotel. Their performance motifs are more loosely associated, but they're all less formally organized, more underground types of in-person performance or engineering.
(velvette snuck her way into two group shots)
The remaining major Overlords might also map onto even-numbered 19th century decades and to musical and lyric art forms: Prick and Hatchet (1860s, rock and western music), Carmilla and co (1840s, Ballet), Maestro (Regency era, classical), and Zestial (earlier medieval era, poetry). Zeezi is Pop music and 2000s, which kinda fills out our time span here covering the last even-numbered decade.
Finally you have the Heaven characters, who are a combo of Biblical and sci-fi motifs. Adam, Lute, Abel, St Peter, and the Exorcists all dress in Biblical/Medieval religious style outfits, and are associated with various motifs of Rock. Emily, the Speaker and Sera all wear similarly grand, non-decade specific gowns and have mystical or sci-fi motifs.
I know some of these are a bit of a stretch, but it makes for an interesting and convenient way to group the cast. Basically the unassigned characters are: Mimzy who is 1920s-themed and could either fit with the RadioVees or the Hotel guests (even numbered decade) and Vaggie because her artistic motif hasn't been assigned yet. Let me know what you think Vaggie's era/performance art should be.
Mind you that's potential thematic groupings, not necessarily the groups the characters are currently in. As to what their groups are in Season n3, that's a different matter...
small note: I have a LOT more thoughts on Ready for This/Vox Populi, but fortunately these songs are in two separate episodes so I'll probably write more whenever I get to 2x05
Every Vox & Charlie Parallel Season 1 Episode 7 "Hello Rosie"
Sooooo fortunately for me somebody else already did my work for me with this awesome video which basically plays the two song numbers back to back! My work here is done!
OK I'll do more. A lot more. As in this is really really really long.
STATICBELLE AND ALASTOR
Starting with Alastor and his relationships with his two favorite disaster bis; @chopstickerz analyzed the parallels between Charlastor and Radiostatic really well in this post, put it better than I can. But to keep close to it:
Alastor apparently low-key negs/insults both of them kind of incessantly when he's alone with them; in his scene with Charlie in 1x07 and in all his scenes with Vox in season 2, he spends most of his dialogue insulting them in order to manipulate them for his own purposes:
Alastor: Now, now is that any way to act after picking a fight with all of Heaven and dooming everyone you love?
Charlie: I have enough on my mind without hearing your sadistic idea of a joke, asshole.
(Later)
Alastor: Well, I never expected to see such a miserable display of self-loathing from you.
Charlie: Oh, fuck you, Alastor. All you do is stand there, smiling while you watch us struggle and fail. I don't know how you can enjoy all this suffering so much.
In s2 there's a lot of similar instances with Vox, probably the closest parallel here being the interaction that starts "Don't You Forget: Reprise"
Alastor: But you still rely on others for your power. Like Always.
Vox: You think your little mockery is gonna make me cwy?
Notably Charlie is better at standing up to Al than Vox is, as Vox spends most of his screen time in s2 responding to Al's insults with defensiveness. Charlie of course doesn't view Alastor the same way because he's not the person who hurt her and made her afraid to love. It's actually closer to Vox and Val's interactions in s1e2 ("You still pissed he almost beat you that one time?" "Uh, fuck you".)
Both Vox and Charlie make a deal with Alastor at some point. Charlie's deal is well-considered and she weighs her options:
Charlie: I won't hurt anyone for you.
Alastor: Who's asking! One favor, at a time of my choosing, where you harm no one. In return, I tell you what I know. Do we have a deal?
Charlie: Deal.
Vox is of course a lot less smart about it:
Alastor: Let these irrelevant little nobodies run along home, but more importantly, you're not to lay your hands on Charlie Morningstar.
Vox: Wait. That's it? Psha-ha!
Alastor: That's it. Pretty enticing, isn't it? Think of the headlines.
Vox: That's- that's... (stammers excitedly) It's a deal!
One crucial difference here I think is that Charlie assumes Alastor doesn't have feelings and is just a cruel, sociopathic person. Vox thinks Al is actually attached to Charlie ("What makes the Princess and her crappy little hotel so important that the Radio demon gives up what little dignity he has to protect it?) and cares about her and therefore is being sincere. Both misunderstand Al. He's neither as heartless nor as caring as either of them thinks.
Charlie is also in a position where she kind has to negotiate with Alastor in order to achieve her bigger goals, and this speaks to how she focuses more on her bigger picture goals. Vox in s2 has a goal ("a dream") but he loses sight of the bigger picture and his grand dreams in the name of impressing Alastor. The post linked above notes that his relationship with Charlie is probably the one Alastor wanted with Vox - unemotional and detached, transactional and upfront. No messy feelings.
Alastor brings Charlie her army, her arsenal, her romantic advice, and his staff. He does everything he can to sabotage Vox. He's Charlie's greatest strength and Vox's greatest weakness.
2. CHAGGIE, STATICMOTH, & ANGER
In s2 and this ep, C&V have conflict with their romantic partners. Charlie is angry with Vaggie, who has lied to her about her entire backstory and participation in the genocide of Charlie's people. However, she hides in her room and only snaps at her once over this big lie. She then talks to Alastor and Rosie about it instead of Vaggie.
Vaggie: But... I-- I didn't even know that was possible.
Charlie: If you did, would you have told me?
Vaggie: Charlie, I--
Charlie: I need you to go to her, convince her to teach us. If she can, we might have a chance.
This parallel is developed in s2 with C&V's fight there. In Staticmoth and Chaggie, the relationship dynamics can both struggle somewhat as I've noted with an "all take and no give" dynamic. C&V are in the driver's seat, V&V both to some extent 'need' a driver (Vaggie because she wants someone to follow, Val because of his impulsiveness), but V&V also refuse to just be told what to do. Something I do notice as a difference though is that Charlie will snap at Vaggie occasionally for perceived betrayals of trust while Vox, as far as I can recall, almost never snaps at Val; the closest is the infamous micro aggression from 2x06 where he says something snidely racist to him and Val hits him with a glass. Which probably explains why Vox doesn't often snap at Val.
Charlie has support for her relationship with Vaggie that Vox doesn't seem to have for his dynamic with Val. In this episode Charlie gets romance advice from Rosie that helps her deal with the Vaggie situation:
Rosie: Oh, shit! Quite a secret. How does that make you feel?
Charlie: Just, angry, because we share everything, because she always supported me, and my ideas, and-and- and now, I don't know whether or not that was just more of the lies! *gasp* Oh no that's a horrible thing to think! Do i think that?! Yes! N-no. Kinda? *sits on couch whimpering*
Rosie: You said you love this girl?
Charlie: Yes. Or well, I...yes
Rosie: Have you ever once doubted that she loved you in return? Well, then what's the problem?
Charlie: She took part in the very thing we've been working so hard to end!
Rosie: Well, isn't that silly hotel of yours all about redemption?
Charlie: Yes?
Rosie: Perhaps this girl, was trying to redeem herself too.
Charlie has two reasons for anger at Vaggie, one being the lie and the other being her complicity in a villainy Charlie can't condone and is against. Vox has a number of reasons we have seen to be angry at Val - Val throws things at him, creates trouble, and is in s2 angry and uncooperative with Vox's goals. Charlie ducks out of actually confronting Vaggie about this and snaps only very passive aggressively at her - kind of like a certain someone's "Island language" bullshit in 2x06.
Vox seems to push down his anger at Val. In 1e02 he starts to snap at him ("VAL" grabs by coat collar) but quickly calms himself and talks him down instead. In 104 he looks briefly angry about Angel, but teleports away before Val can see his face. In s2, when he and Val have a fight in Scream Rain, Vox again at most makes a snide racist comment, which earns him a glass to the face, and proceeds to avoid Val until 2x08.
And it's not clear if Velvette, the only other person in Vox's life close enough to him to hear him out, is receptive to listening since we never see Vox tell her about it. Another @chopstickerz post pointed out that the Vees clearly believe in absolute loyalty in spite of abuse and bad treatment, and if Vel puts up with it from Val and Val and Vel put up with it (to an extent) from Vox, then Vox in their dynamic just has to suck it up. Which is not good for their relationship.
It occurs to me that maybe this is part of why Vox is unconsciously still reaching out to Alastor despite the stupidity of doing so. A friendly face who's an outside perspective, like Rosie is for Charlie here, can be an amazing sounding board to talk about relationship problems. And Vox has only had three friends, even if he assumes Al was a fake one. Velvette is part of this family drama, and he has no one else to talk to about it, but if only he could rekindle that lost something with his third friend, who's an outside perspective (sadly, never gonna happen)...
Anyway, even though Chaggie are at least a bit more comfortable fighting, there still is the issue that they haven't actually talked about this to each other on-screen yet. Charlie does have reason to be a bit less trustful of Vaggie after this revelation, since it's a pretty big deal to lie about, and she and Vaggie haven't talked about what this means for Vaggie at all or what it means for their relationship. Just like in s2, they have a fight and they just decide to forgive each other instead of actually talking it out.
So both C&V seem to believe in a kind of absolute loyalty to their loved ones, even if said loved one is either a) potentially willing to conceal big information or b) physically violent at the slightest provocation. C&V probably both are willing to sit back and just forgive their lovers - Charlie doesn't even let Vaggie apologize, which she might have been preparing to do, she just gives her a head from cannibal town and they call it a day - and it's pretty easy to see why.
C&V are united in their shared bottomless pit of desire to be loved. Any chance of losing love is terrifying for both of them. So they both accept things like Vaggie lying about her whole life and past as an exorcist, or Val's casual violence, without much protest or even demands for accountability, because they don't think they deserve better and fear that if they confront V&V about it, they'll lose them.
3. VOX POPULI/READY FOR THIS.
Luckily a smart poster on Twitter already made this parallel for me, but I'll try and break it down a bit, based on @voxvagogh's cool breakdown.
First, C&V sell themselves as a leader "We NEED leader and that leader is me"
CHARLIE: 'Cause right now we need a leader
And it seems to me that destiny has picked me
To be that, if you'll permit me
So who's with me!
VOX: We sinners do not need a king, we need someone who understands/A different kind of despot bringing respite from divine demands
Both characters present themselves as the leader of hell, taking the spot from Lu. "Need" is a line in both songs ("we need a leader/someone who understands") and "Destiny" ("Manifest destiny"/"Destiny has picked me"). Charlie does have the royal lineage to the throne of hell, while Vox is a self-made Overlord, but both frame themselves as a leader the people need to pick and support.
"inspirational tap dance"
Kind of a funny point they have in common but my preliminary research tells me that Tap is actually a dance form associated with (according to wikipedia) either A) Black American and British Irish jig dance traditions around the birth of jazz (wonder how Alastor feels watching his two white pet bis appropriate his culture's dance moves?) or B), Possibly C&V are borrowing more from "Broadway tap...performed in musical theater", I'm not smart enough to know which style they're doing). Either way, Tap seems to be a style of dance associated more with "the people" and working-class folk traditions, so C&V choosing to bust out the tap moves while trying tp present themselves as accessible.
"Dancing with The People"
Also reinforces that point, obviously, as C&V present themselves as not above sharing a dance with their ordinary citizens, and both C&V choose to dance by grabbing the arms/shoulders of their citizens and maneuvering them.
(Also Vox pushes the so-called "8" out of the way. Because he's an asshole. And being seen dancing with a so-called 8 would damage his image of perfection. Which makes his crush on the guy most other sinners treat as a hideous cockroach all the more hilarious)
Also small note Vox uses a boat metaphor and Charlie uses a horse metaphor ("Run this ship"/"Hop in the saddle"). As in Vox presents them as a military unit and Charlie presents it as a horse run?
"Camaraderie as a selling point"
CHARLIE: .Not to mention the Camaraderie/You'll form life changing friendships/with the folks along the way
VOX: Have a crewmate to protect, 'cause/They want us all divided
That is how they keep us down
C&V may be enemies in their approach to morality but they're united in their shared love for the Power of Friendship. Vox is afraid to truly embrace his desire for friends and instead chooses a distant, worshipful kind of camaraderie. Charlie is all in on the idea and way more comfortable expressing it. Both however frame the story as being driven by the companionship of the people around them.
We aso in VP get a direct statement of Vox's status as Charlie's counterpart:
Vox: "Here's the kicker, sinners can save their souls/Not by changing for redemption, but by taking over heaven".
Just to make it, you know. Less subtle. Charlie wants to get into heaven by redemption and Vox wants to take it over. Ironically both are motivated by feeling rejected by heaven in some way and want heaven to choose them (Vox wants to get back at them for rejecting him, Charlie wants her heavenly parents' approval).
The crowd is inspired by the band takes over the number.
OH C&V. If only you guys had a touch of each others' strengths - if Charlie had Vox's confidence and overall influence and Vox had Charlie's capacity for good - you'd be such great influences on the world around you. But you're both giant flaming hot messes so here we are.
They're raised up by others who carry them in their arms.
For the visual difference, Charlie stands on their hands, Vox lies down on the dancers' hands. Charlie inspires the people spontaneously; Vox has to orchestrate it. But both essentially step on the support of other people to be raised up above them.
Emphasize heaven/angels as a common enemy.
V&C are both going after the same opponent - the Angels who slaughtered their people - but Vox wants revenge and Charlie wants to negotiate with them.
"Comparison with Lucifer as proof of leadership"
It is Al and Rosie who compare charlie to Lu who Vox is the one who compares himself to the king. Charlie doesn't see herself as the replacement for Lu as far as we know, Vox wants to step in and take over his job for the fame and the power.
So that's the video summary of the two numbers, and it's a lot. C&V are actually so dramatically similar; Vox puts himself above the people by the end of the song and Charlie is standing with them through the majority, emphasizing his desire to be worshipped and her desire to be With the People. In the last shot Charlie looks nervous and Vox looks cocky, emphasizing their opposing flaws. Charlie is still insecure and uncertain, Vox is too cocky and too self-absorbed. If only their narrative arcs involve them respectively learning to adopt each others' strengths, they'd collectively be inspirational leaders capable of rallying hell to basically any crazy project either one concocted.
Anyway if someone is smarter about the music and can tell me why the beats of the two songs sound so similar that'd be great.
Watching Transformers Prime Episode 6 "Masters and Students"
"I miss my wife, Ratchet. I miss him a lot."
We open with Screamer! (Always a good sign) Sadly none of the troops want to listen to him because he's not Megsy. Poor boy.
Awww OP is all sad cause Megsy's gone and he wished he'd change his mind somehow! Yeah they're definitely still married in this show. Don't worry OP they won't leave him dead for long.
Ratch is hilarious here. OP: "I feel like I could still fix him" Ratchet: "He killed almost our entire species and tried to kill another!" OP: "I still think I can fix him"
And the kids are working on science projects with their Autobot buddies! Aw that's so adorable. Dare I hope the episode will just be about this?
Nah Screamer is gonna go awaken some Con on Earth! OMG Who's this gonna be? Is it gonna be the Combaticons again!?
Skyquake? Who the hell is that!?
Quick research tells me he's one of those Obscure Transformers Characters, which probably means he's got a dedicated legion of fans really mad at me for not knowing who he is right now.
Screamer why do you expect everyone to just do whatever you say.
OMG OP offers Screamer a truce and Screamer's like "Sure if you'll kiss my ass" I really want to see how that would have gone. Would they really have busted ended the whole thing right then and there?
Doesn't seem likely, I don't get the impression this Screamer is down for peace of any kind.
Soundwave detects Megsy! Wow really thought that'd take longer. TFA left him on ice for at least two eps, but here not even a full episode goes by.
LOL and Soundwave being smart is like "Likelihood of Starscream actually reviving Megs if unsupervised: Low" and sends Laserbeak out to watch him.
Anyway OP and Bee outright kill Skyquake, who's fighting them because Reasons. So much for any No Killing rule in this series huh. OP is that just gonna be your excuse for not killing Megsy since you still love him in future? Cause you really can't use it as an excuse again.
Speaking of killing Megsy Screamer outright RIPS HIS UNICRON HEART OUT OMG. Not quite "Wanna bet" or "Bomb on back" levels of Screamer backstab but definitely a good solid third in the "killing Megsy" rankings.
Laserbeak ensures Screamer brings Megsy back though. And somehow Megsy doesn't immediately kill him I guess when eh wakes up, since I know Screamer makes it through the show? Wows how damn forgiving is this Megs?
Anyway Ratchet is apparently insane in this show because he gives all the kids whacky science fair projects. Is it weird that I actually wanted to see more of the kids and autobots doing science stuff? Real sign of how likable the humans are in this show that that would've maybe been interesting.
So yeah kind of a meh episode but hey a good showcase for Screamer. How the hell's he gonna get out of this one!?
So on a lighter note, building off of my analysis of Alastor’s attractiveness before. I did mention in that post that Vox is seen as comparatively more attractive in-universe which prompted tons of deep reflection (mainly from the brilliant commenters, such amazing takes!) on Vox’s in-universe hotness and what it means. But leaving behind in-universe, what about the fact that Vox is considered attractive in our universe?
As in - was voted once the hottest character in the show?
💬 1 🔁 20 ❤️ 114 · Happy March 17th! And a happy 2 year anniversary to Vox winning the Hottest Hazbin Character poll!
This win is canon bt
I mean, yes, that’s just one poll and overall I get the impression Lu, Angel and Al are considered the show’s resident hot guys by the fandom in general. They’re the conventionally pretty ones, after all. Makes total sense. Now, I’m aroace so I’m not sure how my takes count (new to being officially out so apologies if I don’t know quite how to articulate it). My personal opinion, I’m with the twitter poll. I think Vox is the hot one. But logically, I know that makes little sense. on the surface, anyway.
So because clearly this is a very important topic with massive implications for our times (sarcasm) I’ll basically try and unpack here why our resident TV-headed boy is considered hot IRL.
Also, focusing on Vox, the TV Demon here, not Vincent.
Top to bottom - why is Vox hot?
The biggest thing, obviously, that makes Vox’s hotness seem odd from an IRL standpoint is the fact that, y’know. His head is a TV, and not humanoid. He lacks most obviously human facial features - hair, nose, jawline, etc. However, what it does leave us with is one, his gigantic eyes, which are capable of shifting from big puppy dog eyes to narrowed slits, and take up a lot of his face. As most anime characters demonstrate, creating humanoid faces with bigger eyes than are normally found on humans is quite attractive. It gets Vox be simultaneously baby-cute with the tareme eyes, and sophisticated with tsurime, or narrow slanted eyes. His face is also very anime in that regard - no visible nose, big smile that takes up most of it, completely smooth, etc. The wide crooked, toothy grin is very expressive and lets him emote a lot.
Basically his face is reduced to only the most emotive parts of the human face, and the two most attractive (no shade to those who are drawn to the human nose or jawline.) But yeah, eyes (with their emotions and come-hither looks) and mouths (do I need to elaborate?) are the two most sexual aspects of the human face, so when you winnow it down to just eyes and mouth, it enhances the attractiveness. I post a read mentioned that his head width also enhances his shoulder width, too. Although he doesn’t have a jawline too, it does kinda replicate a stronger jaw.
Bodily, of course, he has fairly broad shoulders, and a large chest which his cravats enhance (this post shows you how full it is from the side. Like damn). Then the dorito proportions with the broad shoulders and slim waist. He goes shirtless in season 2 and we see he’s toned (not buff, but toned.) In the season 2 finale of course he also has those buff arms. He has those huge, giant hands, which seems to be a particularly attractive feature to women especially. Then that slight curve to the hips, makes him just a touch androgynous and gives him basically the male equivalent of an exaggerated hourglass figure. Then the very long, slender legs, plus the high heeled feet, which kinda combines both masculine and feminine features. He has Christian Borle’s deep bass voice. And add in the snazzy fashion sense, which always enhances every single one of those features.
There’s also how he moves, too. He’s so expressive, so vibrant, such a mover. He can dance, which is considered an attractive feature. He’s touchy-feely, which while it’s threatening in some ways, it’s also very affectionate when it's the Vees. There’s his charisma, obviously, which he turns up to 11 most of the time because it’s his defense. He’s also adorable around those he really likes, there’s that hidden secret dork inside of the surface of slick. He’s a secret doting shark dad/beleaguered husband if you know the behind-the-scenes stuff. Conversely he’s also quite badass, clever and intimidating when he wants to be. You can definitely list off a lot of other traits, but I figure that's a good summary of why Vox would be considered attractive IRL, as opposed in-universe, which probably has a lot of complicated rules for who in hell is hot.
Obviously of course, to some extent attractiveness is subjective. And it's not really all that important in analyzing the show, just something that kinda tickled my a brain as a thought experiment (why are we all so thirsty for a guy with a TV for a head). Take it or leave it :)
Why does Alastor project all his own worst qualities onto Vox?
I mean yes he projects his frustrations onto lots of people but onto Vox more than anyone else. Why? Why Vox? A lot of these things are only vaguely true about Vox or completely untrue. Is it really just cause Vox is "just like him, except sharp, brighter, newer?"
Every Charlie/Vox Parallel: Season 1 Episode 6 "Welcome to Heaven"
C&V at their most badass
There are two (3-ish) main parallels between Charlie and Vox in 1x06. First, this episode concerns the beginning of a fight between Charlie and Vaggie based on Vaggie's past, and though it's explored much more in the next episode, it's worth noting their tension here. Much as Vox and Val will fall out over miscommunication in s2.
Just like Vox, Charlie refers to her girlfriend as her "partner", and invites her to come "up there" with her:
Charlie: Vaggie, you're my partner, I need you there with me.
Much like:
Vox: I swear I'd never felt closer to being a god. That's a feeling that I'd give anything to get back. And a feeling that I'd love to share with both of you.
(This is addressed to Val & Vel)
"Partner" is obviously a complicated thematic word for Vox's story, considering what happened with Alastor; he's reluctant to call Val more than "partners...in business", but he nonetheless still calls Val and Vel his team, and Val is and has for a long time been his partner, much as Vaggie is Charlie's. It's great word for implying equality, and that Charlie and Vox both know they need/want Vaggie and Val by their sides.
However, a problem that occurs here is, as I've seen reactors to this ep point out, Charlie isn't listening to Vaggie.
Throughout the scene Vaggie has been making it clear she's not all that enthusiastic about this trip, in ways that immediately telegraph there's something bugging her, and Charlie doesn't bother to ask Vaggie what's bugging her, instead just barreling forward with her own plans. And because she fails to clock this, Adam is able to air Vaggie's dirty laundry in the most emotionally damaging way possible. Much as Vox ignoring his partners' initial disinterest in the heaven plan and their frustration with his Alastor issues results in his humiliation in 2x08. Charlie and Vox both get lost in their own heads and fail to notice their partners' feelings.
II Trickster Goddess
Second, another thing C&V have in common is a streak of what TvTropes calls "Manipulative Bastard" - ie, setting people up to walk into a situation they're controlling for their own ends with a carefully executed trap. Charlie does it here in a very subtle way, by giving Cherrie money and suggesting she and Angel go out for a night on the town:
Charlie: Yeah! Hi, everyone! Angel and his friend are taking you all out for a night of fun and relaxation!
[Cherri mistakes Charlie's suggestion and tries to make her understand.]
Cherri Bomb: Wait, I'm only here for An—
[Charlie hands Cherri Bomb a large stack of money.]
Cherri Bomb: —Ooh! Never mind, Let's Go!
Which Charlie will be filming in order to prove to heaven Angel can be redeemed.
Vox of course does this more often and obviously, just for instance like when he pretends to be Charlie on the phone to manipulate Lu into walking into his trap. But both Charlie and Vox are definitely people who like working through guessing how people will behave and occasionally manipulating them into doing what they want. So we see C&V both showing a streak of their fatal flaws in this comparison: Their struggles to really connect with the people closest to them.
III Divine Pleasures
Before we get into the meatier stuff, a few smaller, more comedic points of similarity: Charlie adores heaven's style of fun, and the linked post points out that the Vees' idea of fun matches up with Heaven's well too:
Charlie: Okay, I love Heaven! Vaggie, did you see the ice cream shop? They had sprinkles made of rainbows!
Vaggie: Those are just rainbow sprinkles.
💬 11 🔁 19 ❤️ 122 · Emily and the Vees have the same idea of fun · Flashy cars, clubbing, chilling poolside, tropical beaches...
arcade ga
The post makes a list. We know Charlie lines up on a few of these at least - doodling, ice cream, cute pets and sweets for sure. Also this post from the same writer pointed out Vox has a bit of a sweet tooth when it comes to drinks, and Charlie is very excited about the sweets heaven has to offer.
Also gushing over their favorite animals:
Charlie: O.M.G! Can you imagine an actual koala? *squeals happily* See you later!
Vox: (to Shok.wav) Who's the bestest demon shark in the world?
Basically C&V both view the kinds of pleasures heaven has to offer as appealing - they both like heaven and its somewhat goofy, even childish ideas of what makes a pleasurable life. But they're also both the characters who take it down, ironically.
IV Voice of the People?
The biggest main point of comparison this episode is how Charlie and Vox both act as the voices of hell demanding justice from the Angels for the sinners. TVTropes points out in Vox's profile page that he and Alastor in their separate ways both represent an aspect of the biblical Lucifer that Hazbin's Lu doesn't - Al the tempter to evil, Vox to leader of a revolt against heaven. Charlie of course is also in a way a reflection of this side of the classic Lu, but her and Vox's approaches are different.
I think it's fair to say Charlie presents herself as a figure of justice and Vox presents himself as a figure of vengeance. It's a rather Professor X & Magneto style narrative foiling (albeit if Magneto was only faking): Charlie wants to work with the system towards a peaceable revolution, Vox wants to use violence to take the system down (and of course, install himself on top).
Charlie's initial approach is to attempt to work with heaven's idea - souls who can be redeemed are worthy of existence - and gives a show presentation of Angel's improvement:
Charlie: We have a patron right now who is making incredible progress!
Adam: Who?
Charlie: Angel Dust.
(also, Charlie watching Angel without his permission and using him as an example to convince people, without his enthusiastic consent, that redemption is possible? Foreshadowing, what's that?)
Vox, instead, gives his slideshow presentation of Heaven's crimes against hell, showing off the crimes heaven has committed against the sinners without arguing that the sinners need to prove themselves worth life first:
Emily: That's not--
Vox: Do you know how many sinners died in each extermination? Thousands.
It's interesting that Charlie plays by heaven's rules - that sinners need to prove themselves worthy (at first, anyway) and Vox presents his case that sinner lives should eb valued regardless. Not sure whether he believes that, though he at least probably thinks it of himself given how annoyed he was at Charlie's "anyone can be redeemed" suggestion. B
The two of them both however are defiant of heaven's attempts to dismiss the sinners and stand up for their basic humanity (performative in Vox's case, though Charlie herself does sometimes slip into being judgmental of Angel):
Charlie: Uhm, objection! Are you really telling me you've never had a drink with friends at the end of a hard day?
Vox: You hear that, people? These angels think our lives are worth really good taffies.
Both of them call out the idea that sinners should just die because they're sinners, and argue for the injustice of what heaven has been doing.
Charlie and Vox are both entities who are able to get under Sera's skin and unearth the problems with her scheme. Charlie calls her out on how she and Adam have no idea how this judgmental process even works:
Charlie: Wait... none of you know what gets someone into Heaven?
Sera: *abruptly* This questioning stops now. We know when a soul arrives, we know when they pass divine judgment, it is our job to ensure these souls are safe.
Vox calls her out more directly on her use of violence to intimidate them.
Vox: This angel admits it! She called the extermination to silence the sinners speaking out, empowering each other. You did it to keep us down.
They then both hit us with two of the coolest, most badass musical numbers in the entire show, where they each take a stand against the divine power of a seraphim and an archangel:
Charlie: ♫ It's not fair, Sera ♫
Vaggie: ♫ Careful, Charlie, keep a cool head... ♫
Charlie: ♫ No! Don't you care, Sera? ♫/♫ That just because someone is dead ♫/♫ It doesn't mean they can't resolve to change their ways ♫/♫ Turn the page ♫/♫ Escape infernal blaze ♫
Later:
Charlie and Emily: ♫ If Hell is forever, then Heaven must be a lie! ♫/If angels can do whatever, and remain in the sky ♫/♫ The rules are shades of gray when you don't do as you say ♫/♫ When you make the wretched suffer just to kill them again ♫/ ♫ I was told not to trust in angels ♫
Vox of course has Vox Dei:
Vox: ♪ Well, we are not gonna ♪/♪ be kept down anymore ♪/♪ Consider this a declaration of HOLY WAR! ♪/♪ I've woken up the people ♪/♪ to the lies you angels tell /♪ When we pay you a visit we won't be bringing baskets ♪/♪ We'll be bringing decimation that'll put you in caskets ♪/♪ I’ll show you what it means to be ♪/♪ The MOTHERFUCKING king of Hell! ♪/♪ Cause I'm the furor! I'm immense! ♪ /♪ I am the avatar of your consequence ♪ /♪ I'm your omega! I'm the flood ♪ /♪ I am the nightmare you made when you spilled our blood! ♪ /♪ So cower and hide, find a rope you can swing from ♪/♪ Go say your goodbyes, to your lives ♪/♪ TO YOUR KINGDOM! ♪
Charlie opens with the declaration that Sera's decision was "unfair" and asks why she doesn't "care". Vox opens up with the declaration that they won't be 'kept down'. Both C&V drop a line about Angel's not being trustworthy (in Bold). Then Charlie (accompanied by Emily) calls out the hypocrisy - if "Angels can do whatever and remain in the sky", then there is no point to the idea that those of heavenly descent are 'better' than the sinners, or that the sinners should need to be 'good' to be worthy of heaven. Vox has come in with the premise that hell is better than heaven, that they are stronger and he specifically is more powerful and bigger deal than the angels.
Charlie presents herself as a spirit of justice. Vox presents himself as a spirit of vengeance. They both call the angels out on their decisions, Charlie calling for accountability, Vox calling for a revolution. Charlie is able to shake heaven and almost convinces them. Vox is able to send them running for the moment with fear and intimidation .
However, it's debatable if either approach works al lathe well on its own. Charlie's attempts to play by heaven's rules don't get her very far; it isn't until Pentious' redemption proves her right that heaven backs off, and in the meantime a lot of lives are put in danger. But even then, it isn't until the conflict with Vox comes up that anyone really pushes heaven on the issue. Ideally some balance between the two extremes might be needed - I saw a great vid on the X-men movies pointing out that in X2 Xavier adopts elements of Magneto's more forceful approach in the climax in order to ensure no near-genocide of mutants happens again. I'd love to see C&V developing this kind of dynamic.
Of course, unlike Magneto, Vox probably doesn't actually believe this shit. Yet, while I don't think he necessarily has much empathy or concern for the sinners en masse, he probably fully is angry over heaven's dismissal of him and perhaps of Vel and Val. Borrowing again from @chopstickerz and their post here on Vox's POV on redemption, Vox and Vel definitely hate the idea that they need to change to be worthy of redemption. They think they're great and feel most likely a bit rejected by heaven. Charlie meanwhile is playing heaven's game somewhat - that they must prove themselves worthy of redemption in order to get in, to not be condemned to death. Now Charlie does put her money where her mouth is in that she doesn't just shoot Vox in s2 the minute he does something that would deem him irredeemably evil in her eyes. But it's easy to see why its a hard sell for a lot of sinners to try redemption.
Charlie is a fairly privileged person, and while she has compassion for her people, she often treats them in a way that seems condescending - the noblesse oblige kind of attitude. Vox and the Vees are better able to appeal to the people because they present themselves as of the people. Vox Populi, the people's voice. They're sinners - incredibly rich and successful sinners, but sinners rather than half-angels - and they don't present the divine fun as something people have to earn ("Not by changing for redemption, but by taking over heaven"). Vox sees himself and his Vees (and possibly other sinners) as deserving divine reward and is annoyed at the idea that he has to change for it at all. Of course it is important to value self-improvement and morality, I'm not saying it isn't. Plenty of sinners like Vox and Al did horrible things in life and continue to do awful things in hell. It's a complicated issue and there is no easy answer.
Not the most coherent set of thoughts on the parallels here, but I think that sums it up. C&V both present themselves as righteous figures standing up for the rights of the sinners, but their methods both leave something to be desired.
Watching Transformers Prime "Darkness Rising Part 5"
Shouldn't this "Last Stand" kinda stuff be at least the end of the season?
Yeah sure guys, you're gonna let zombie cybertronians invade earth. Pretty high stakes for a first episode.
Aw, Arcee isn't ready to let Jack go yet! Amazing how many feels I have about these two only a few episodes in.
"Optimus Prime never disappoints. Unlike YOU Starscream" Aw Megs. Just not over his ex yet and taking it out on his new boyfriend.
I haven't seen Megs be this pointlessly douchey to Screamer since G1. TFA and Armada Megs usually had more complicated reasons.
Anyway this show was like "What if the humans were actually useful" and gives them something to do that contributes to the plot. Damn.
The Human Trio vs Soundwave. Soundwave wins.
OP and Megs meanwhile are quoting lines from The Movie. Again doing this in the first episode seems a little much.
Damn Megs actually got the Dark Energon through the bridge and zombified dead cybertronians? Didn't expect that.
Of course he still takes time out of their battle to fanboy over OP. "What a great trick you'd have made a good con (Please be w/me again)" He's got it so bad.
Why is Megsy reaching out for his zombie army like they're his forbidden lovers. This is weird.
I actually cheered out loud for Starscream when he announced himself as leader! I'm sure it won't last but I'm happy for him.
Aw so many Jack and Arcee feels when he worries she's dead. Again impressive use of your human characters TFP.
And yeah sure OP Megsy is totes dead we've been here before.
So yeah a good opener though like I said it feels like a little much for the pilot.
I love how Vox and Alastor's approaches to their past relationship are in keeping with their relationships to future/past.
Vox keeps trying to "move past" what happened with Al and push forward ("You think I'm bawling bout the past that could've been"). He tries to get over him, finds new friends, tries to ignore how he feels and pretend it never happened and it totally doesn't still bother him. It does not work.
Alastor keeps bringing UP their past ("He asked me to join his team"/"Don't want to be reminded of how desperate you were?"/"You haven't changed" etc.) and refuses to let it go, constantly keeping Vox (and himself, because he's afraid to open up again) trapped in that same emotional place.
Vox wants to move forward too quickly, Alastor refuses to change at all. Fitting for a guy obsessed with the future and a guy obsessed with "the sxit that comes before that".
As promised, here's my take on Val's side of his relationship with Vox.
It's a bit tricky to go too in-depth on this because we still don't know that much about Val, and a lot of what we see is filtered through other characters' POVs. So I'm doing a lot of guesswork here. Based on what we've seen, I think Val feels deep down, like he isn't 'good enough' for Vox, and wants things from him that he isn't getting: Attention, validation, emotional intimacy, and an acknowledgement of their romantic relationship.
"If he glows any brighter, will he see me anymore?"
Literally the first thing we learn about Val in the series after his texts to Angel is that he wants Vox to come to his room in order to "calm him down". I think this gives an interesting layer to his behavior in 1x02, especially rewatching with his solo number from 2x07 in mind: While yes, some of his anger over Angel leaving is genuine, I also think he might be playing this up a bit because he wants Vox's attention.
Throughout the scene, Val keeps trying to draw Vox's full attention to him. He rants angrily about Angel and Vox gives him a bored detached "which whore would we be talking about?" after nearly getting a glass to the face, as if Val's feelings are so uninteresting to him he can't even remember the most important soul he owns, which angers Val further (on Vox's side, I think he's maintaining calm here because that's how you de-escalate a situation).
Vox turns to his phone? Val grabs it and breaks it. Vox turns his back on him? Val gets angrier. Vox stays calm and looks bored? Val keeps escalating, finally turning to a cabinet full of guns to use violence. This gets him Vox's attention for a minute, and that calms him down a bit. He gets a bit of what he wants from Vox: Attention, physical closeness, Vox lighting his cigarette and offering him earners to shoot, and he finally smiles.
But then Vox immediately, as soon as Val is calmed down, starts walking away again to do something else, and Val seems to decide to play his last card, the one that will guarantee Vox has to pay attention to him. He plays the Alastor card. This gets him Vox's attention all right - absolutely enraged attention, that involves threats and rage. He turns on the TV to show Al and deliberately places himself to the left so Vox will have to look at him to see Al. Vox responds by zapping closer to the TV so he can glare at only Al.
When we cut back, Val is loudly complaining about Angel flirting with someone else, and says Vox's name as if he's trying to get his attention. I think that while Val's obsession with Angel might exist outside of Vox, there's also an element of him playing up Angel and his interest in him in order to make Vox jealous. Or at least he wants Vox to be jealous, to pay attention to him; hence why he's calling Vox's name at the end of this scene. And Vox of course only has eyes for Al. Val keeps trying to get his attention again - "You still pissed her most beat you that one time?" - but b y now it's too late and Vox is gone.
(Also as an aside: Vox and Angel may not have Vox and Charlie's rich thematic parallels, but they're both 1940s era white guys who are deeply insecure and believe they'll never be loved, cover up their insecurities with a flashy showman persona, are stars of visual media - TV and Porn - are in hell for murder, wear snazzy suits, are overly handsy, and like to solve problems with sass and violence. It's not quite Rachel dating "Russ", but there's just enough surface level similarities between them (and Val dates lots of doppelgängers visually for Vox and Vel) that I could believe Val uses Angel as a proxy to take out his frustrations with Vox on. Angel is the version of Vox that he can control and force to be with him, because he owns him.)
Val, when he's expressing his jealousy over Alastor in Season 2, indicates that he fears sex and desirability is all he has to offer Vox. He looks annoyed when Vox says seeing Alastor almost die is "better than sex" in 1x08, because if Alastor's pain is better than sex, what does Val have to offer Vox? He looks quite pleased when Vox shows the SlapCam Comp and says "You're obsessed with me" as if it's a really pleasant idea. He wants Vox's attention and complete absorption, but also seems to fear that if Vox gets too confident he'll lose it.
In 2x01, we see Val admitting he "doesn't understand" Vox's plans, and in 1x05 Vox teases him about "lacking vision", indicating in general Vox seems to view Val as kinda slow, not as smart as he is. And Val looks wounded by this, as if it's something he feels insecure about here. Val is actually quite smart in creative ways, just maybe not a long term planner like Vox - and creative intelligence, gendered as more feminine, is undervalued by society in comparison with planning and strategizing, soo it makes total sense Val wouldn't see (or at least Vox wouldn't validate that often) his own creative intelligence. So of course Alastor makes sure to emphasize that Vox found him "inspiring" when he's taunting him. Has Vox ever found Val 'inspiring"? Or made him feel like he does? Probably not.
And if Val feels like sex is the main thing he has to offer Vox, what the hell does it say that Vox will leave in the middle of having sex with Val just to go fight with Alastor? He asks Vox "I thought you liked it when I - " as if he's afraid he drove Vox away by whatever sex act they were doing, or as if he's trying to get Vox's attention again. But of course, whenever Alastor is in his radar, nobody else exists for Vox.
We get a sense from his texts to Angel that Vox won't have sex with Val in public, or possibly even take him out on a date. And what is the very first thing he does after getting Alastor? Take him on a fucking smoothie date. And take a picture of it, so it's not even a hidden away thing. He not only takes Al out on a date in public, but he photographs it so everyone will know. And then he uses Val as a sex prop to make Al jealous (we all figure that's what happened i that scene, right?) and ignores him to lock into Al. Val is in the bed, watching, but when Alastor's in the room, Vox has eyes for no one else.
Al also makes sure in the bedroom scene to let Val know that he and Vox were "close to equals", really emphasizing that her nd Vox used to be close. Indeed, we know that Vox was emotionally open with Al in a way he has probably never found it easy to be with Val and Vel, so Val probably has that to be a bit jealous of too. Still, he's cool with it as long as he can think it's just a sex thing. "You two should just fuck already" indicates that he assumes if Vox has sex with Al, he'll get it out of his system and move on.
He and Vox share affection and compliments in 2x05, with Val telling Vox he looks good and doing everything perfectly, getting a bit of an attention and a 'good man' compliment. But Al rolls in and insults Vox, and immediately Val just vanishes from his mind, he starts insulting Val, and ignores him to focus on Al and Al alone. It's basically a statement that he's more invested in Alastor's contempt than in Val's praise. And Val is left watching from the sidelines as Vox gives Alastor that full attention he wants from him.
Val rants in "Scream Rain" that he "can't understand what he sees in that imbecile, because I am here, beautiful, very beautiful"; he thinks that again, if this is just about sex, then he's better looking than Alastor, so what does Al have that he doesn't? It has to seem inexplicable to Val and Vel why Vox is bending over backwards to impress this asshole who does nothing but insult him. We know the full context of course, but Val and Vel don't seem to.
I think this alll gives us an explanation for why Vaggie is comfortable validating Charlie in the Chaggie/Staticmoth parallel arcs of season 2, of reassuring here she's gonna be ok, and Val struggles to do the same for Vox, when that's what Vox desperately needs to avoid crashing out - some reassurance that he's good enough. Because Val fears if Vox gets too confident, he'll leave him. It seems like being left or abandoned by a romantic or sexual partner may be Val's greatest fear - a lot of anger comes from fear, and his rages are almost always motivated by believing a sexual partner has abandoned him.
It's also interesting that while Al is constantly insulting Vox, his goal is to build Vox up enough to be the strongest sinner in hell on his own (to benefit himself) while though Val tends to validate Vox, his desire is to keep him from getting too cocky so he won't leave him, out of love. If Vox and Al's relationship was healthier, Al could be a good force in pushing him towards autonomy and being confident in himself rather than needing others' validation, and the darker side of Val/Vox may be Val trying i some ways to undermine Vox to keep him from getting too confident. But of course that's not the scenario. Just a thought.
Val asserts his autonomy and refuses to put up with bad treatment, but he also tries to justify it ("He's just a man, he's being rude cause he's stressed out just trying to do his master plan). He also tries to farm it out to Vox being upset because of his plans, not to the really blindingly obvious fact that Vox is doing this because Alastor is taunting him that he'd be useless without Vel and Val. Val may struggle with admitting that, because if Vox is motivated by needing Alastor's approval rather than just being stressed about his work life, that means Alastor's approval means more to him than taking over heaven and becoming God. Which it turns out it does.
From Val's POV, Vox chooses Alastor's contempt over his love in the Season 2 finale. He chooses to kill himself (and them) over Alastor rather than go on living with him and Vel. And Val responds with a surprising act of selfless love. In a scene that I just realized actually parallels Husk slapping angel to snap him out of strangling Cherrie, Val uses violence to force Vox to chill and takes him home. He's angry at him, but he protects him and takes him home.
From things like the drawing tutorial, where Vox is a devoted caretaker, albeit a grouchy one, him jumping in the way of Al's attack to save Val, his casual affection and caretaking towards Val (calming him down, lighting his cigarette, putting his glasses back on), etc., we know what Val is fighting for here and why he still wants Vox. When he's in a good place Vox gives him caretaking and affection. But he doesn't give him that undivided, obsessive attention he shows Alastor. Now, realistically Val - you don't want Vox to be as obsessed with you as he is with Al. That doesn't end well. But emotionally, Val seems to want Vox's undivided attention and adoration, and as of the s2 finale, Vox has given all of that to Al instead.
A guy who, from Val's POV, doesn't deserve it. A guy who to Val is A. Less attractive than him, B. Nothing but mean and condescending to Vox, and C., Not really all that special anyway. What, Val must be asking himself, does that stupid deer have that he doesn't?
We know of course, that it's not about Alastor being 'better' than Val -Vox may enjoy their intellectual banter a bit and see Al as more of an equal, but it's a lot more complicated and sad, a great big boil of neediness and unrequited love, etc. But he hasn't gotten comfortable enough to tell Val this yet.
Val is angry at Vox and isn't talking to him. He must feel rejected by him at the end of season 2, but he still chooses to be with him. It's a surprising act of unconditional love, ironically performed by one of the show's most despicable characters. Because even though Vox didn't choose him, Val actually still chooses to be there for Vox, even after he hurt him. It's one of the most striking acts of unconditional love we've seen in the series so far (and props to Vel for doing it too, but she's another discussion).
So to sum up, Val feels insecure around Vox and fears Vox will get too confident for him; he wants Vox's full attention and to be the center of his universe the way Alastor is, and he can't get it no matter what he does. But he also shows Vox genuine, unconditional love and takes him home after his freak out. He and Vel clearly want Vox to "be chill again and realize who he missed". Where will this go? Time will tell.
Every Charlie/Vox Parallel: Season 1 Episode 5 "Dad Beat Dad"
And we finally add Alastor into the mix! Honestly I could just sum up this part with this:
Who's been here since day one?/Who's been faithful as a nun?
Makes you chuckle with an old-timey pun? Your executive producer...
I'm truly honored that we've built such a bond
You're like the child (Partner) that I wish that I had
I care for you just like a daughter (pal) I spawned (found)
It's a little funny, you could almost call me Daaaadd(dy) :)
(look for Radiostatic's silhouettes in that last pic)
aka Alastor decides Lu and Val should lose their daddy privileges.
So we start off "Dad Beat Dad" with Charlie having a slight manic episode about her plan, which of course she's explaining in goofy drawings:
Charlie: Nope, no! Not really! Haha! I've been up all night trying to figure out why the hotel isn't working. [Crushes paper with hand] We've done trust falls. We've tried sharing our feelings. We only have a couple months left before the angels come- [Turns into demonic form and laughs maniacally before turning back to normal] And at this rate...
Much like a certain someone at the start of season 2:
Vox: But I think we can spin that. [He uses his powers and in his screens three hand-drawn images appear] I think we can use the hotel's reputation and Hell's renewed hope, and start a Hell-wide uprising against Heaven! With us at the top, hah?!
Valentino: Ugh, I know you won't believe this, but I don't understand.
In this narrative parallel set, Val and Vel both to some extent occupy Lu's position in Charlie's story in Vox's, though as this post points out the narrative parallels between Lu and Val are very rich and central and worth exploring beyond just that narrative spot.
Charlie describes her relationship with her dad at the start of this episode as complicated and distant:
Charlie: No, we just have never been close. After he and mom split, he never really wanted to see me. He calls... sometimes, but only if he's bored or like, needs me to do something.
Which may be how Vox feels his relationships with the Vees are:
Vox: Hello there, Velvette! How are you this hellish morning?
Velvette: Oh, cut the shit, Vox. I need you up here now!
Very likely Vox believes he and the Vees have never been deeply close - if they are seemingly not privy to his relationship with Al and he's reluctant to c all Val his 'partner', he probably has those walls up - and he might believe they only keep him around for when they're bored or need him to do something.
Now, Lu, Vel and Val actually do love Charlie and Vox. This is really obvious from everything we see. On V&C's side, this internal conviction that their families don't actually love them is probably partially from their own self-loathing. If the parallels pay off with Lilith in s3, it may be because both are damaged from feeling rejected by one parent/friend, and afraid to ever trust the love of the other, because it could go badly again.
On Lu & the Vees side, it's probable that they all have some trouble with really showing their fondness for V&C in tangible ways. For as much as Lu/the Vees do care for C&V, and will step in for them when it counts (1x08/2x08), they often struggle to really show it through tangible, day to day actions.
Charlie: I need to speak to Heaven. Well, whoever's in charge up there, above Adam, above anybody. I need to go to the top.
Lucifer: Oh, no. No~ No, no, no, no, Charlie, no, no, no. That's, uh hah, no.
Charlie: [angrily] Look Dad, [normal] I don't ask you for much, I never have, but this, this is really important to me. It's the most important thing I've ever done. And I... need you. I need your help.
In a darker world, on the Vees side:
Vox: You read my mind. That's actually why I'm here. I may need to borrow Angel Dust for a bit. And before you say anything, just wait till you hear me out. The next part of my plan is gonna make the princess kill herself. (laughs)
Valentino: Our plan. Mine, and Velvette's, too. Or did you forget? (seethes) I'm not gonna wait in the wings again while you and Angel take center stage.
Vox: Oh, Val. Is that jealousy I hear? Come now, Val.
I think Alastor's verse in DBD - "I'm your guy, your DAY-TO-DAY" is important here in this narrative parallel. Alastor highlights how he's there for Charlie doing the gritty, day-to-day hard work of actually helping her, not just throwing grand gestures her way when things get dire ( That's how he frames it, anyway), which means a lot more to Charlie in the long run ("Dad, stop, he's protecting this hotel! How come he can have faith in me but my own father can't?) than things like 'champagne fountains' or 'caviar mountains'. And for Vox, who seems to do a lot of the gritty, day-to-day work of running the Vees like holding Overlord meetings or smoothing over Val's tantrums, the 'day-to-day' small sacrifices might mean a lot.
Both C&V choose to try and win over their families to their dreams by showing them all the cool things that could happen, rather than just telling them to go along with it:
Charlie: Please, just come see what I'm trying to do. You'll see why it's a really good idea. And Heaven is bound to agree if I get the chance to talk to them. Please, Dad.
Vox: ♪ Think of all your dreams that could come true ♪/Valentino: ♪ Even the wet ones? ♪/Vox: ♪ Yeah, those too! Imagine what it could enable! ♪/Velvette: ♪ For my label! ♪
In both cases, C&V have asked Lu and the Vees for help or interest in making their dreams come true. Lu & the Vees have basically said 'no' to being asked, so C&V probably don't feel terribly supported by them or like they believe in their goals. They have to persuade and win them over instead.
And of course this disconnect in both families is what Alastor worms his way into and tries to use as a means to undermine the familial bonds between each side:
In Charlie's case, he pours on the flattery:
Charlie: Okay! Okay, anyway. Dad, look at this lovely parlor where people can get to know each other and share secrets and stories and intimate feelings! Without Alastor, we wouldn't have been able to pretty it up this much.
Alastor: Charlie has a very unique vision. I am happy to fulfil her bizarre requests.
Charlie: Oh, thank you, Alastor.
In Vox's case he pours on the ragebait:
Alastor: Flocked by your partners. With their far more impressive contribution to your flashy little clown show. What really are you contributing besides... noise?
Vox: (laughing and stammering) Uh, I'm the face? The face of the revolution, where the fuck have you been?
Alastor: Yes, but still, if that's all...
Vox: You think they could've pulled this off without me? It's me who made this happen. I have the vision.
Alastor's motivations here are interesting, in that he's ostensibly just doing this in both cases to be a manipulative little shit. He's got bigger plans, and manipulating C&V into thinking he's the person they need to care about, instead of their loving families, is part of that. But on the other hand, there's definitely subtle clues that Al does actually care about C&V in his own Alastor way. I'm not sure I have receipts on this, but there I think is an interview/post where Viv confirms he's "already adopted" Charlie in his head, and we've all seen the way he looked at Vox before things fell apart. Charlie, as my most popular post pointed out, is a lot like Vox, (duh, the whole point of this analysis!) so Al seems to be drawn to this personality type.
💬 2 🔁 8 ❤️ 53 · Link
So I've reposted this awesome post a few times, and it only recently occurred to me that hey, what exactly are the i
Al, as I suggested in analyzing this musical number, invokes Vox when he's thinking about family; he almost formed a familial bond with Vox, a friendship/found family, and then from his point of view, lost that when it turned out Vox was just using him (from his POV), wasn't as good as he thought, etc. And the same thing happens to him (from HIS POV, let me emphasize) in the S1 finale. He opens himself up to Charlie, another hyperactive disaster bi with crazy dreams, and letting himself "get accustomed" leads to him getting hurt. So in S2, he both rejects Charlie and the hotel, and goes to destroy Vox's found family (just for power, obviously, no subconscious emotional motivations there whatsoever, no sir). The ending of s2 hints he's decided to do the same thing to Charlie's family, as he looks at her and Vaggie before glaring at Lu.
So s2 and the Vees serve as a preview of what Al wants to do to the Morningstars. Break apart the family his begrudgingly favorite disaster bis have that isn't him.
Like I mentioned, Al opens his case with a reminder that he's always been around ("Who's been here since day one?" "Back then, you and I were as close to equals as I'd imagined down here" (Makes sure Val hears this). Then that he's been "faithful", makes them laugh, shared good times with them. He emphasizes his presence in C&V's lives while really highlighting Lu and the Vees absence.
This post actually hits on a lot of the nitty-gritty of how Al deliberately undermines Val and Vox's relationship specifically. There's similarities to the way he undermines Lu & Charlie's family bond in 'Hell's Greatest Dad'.
💬 2 🔁 27 ❤️ 115 · I will support jealous Alastor propoganda til I die.
He puts himself physically in between them, he invokes how close he is to them, insists on how Vox 'needs him' and how he's helped Charlie. Lu and Val try to interrupt ("Others say that in your needy hour..."/You two should just fuck already") which annoys Alastor, who proceeds to undermine the bond more, with a smug smirk about how easily he could bend C&V to his will.
Like I mentioned, he really hits that he's the 'day-to-day" in Charlie's world. He hits on their emotional closeness ("I'm truly honored that we've built such a bond"/"I thought you fond me 'inspiring"), and deliberately sows seeds of discord between the two families ("Sadly, there are times a birth parent is a dud"/"You'd be nothing without those two"). It's interesting too that the familial bonds Al chooses to undermine most directly are heteronormative - father-daughter, romantic couple (yes, a gay poly one, but still a romantic dyadic couple) - when he also emphasizes "the family you choose is better" in the number. Being queer, and queer in a specific way that basically defies all heteronormative organizations of family - coupling romantically, childbirth, etc. - Al probably has a very confusing feeling about these two weirdoes he wants in his life. He can kind of insert himself into the "adoptive father" role with Charlie, but what is his relationship with Vox? An "Old Pal?" Friends? He doesn't want to be 'friends', or partners, or lovers, so whatever is there doesn't have a category or a label. (it's called wanting a QPR Al, embrace it).
Anyway, focusing on C&V more. Charlie and Vox both fall for this hook, line and sinker. Charlie is actually a little smarter about it since she's still cautious around Al in 1x07, but she seems in this number to believe in Al, and Vox believes every rage-bait thing Al says to undermine his family in season 2. Charlie wants unconditional approval from a parent, which Al mimics for her. Vox wants Al to approve of him, and Al keeps reeling him in with the teasing promise that he'll approve of him one day. So with Alastor's seeds of discord, both C&V are taken in and let him undermine their relationships with Lu/the Vees. And Lu and Val are both very angry and jealous about this.
Lu is able to, in this episode, recover some of his relationship with Charlie by opening up to her about why he's having a hard time with this specifically, while Val gets angry and storms off:
Charlie: Dad… just... help me.
Lucifer: I... I can't.
Charlie: Why can't you?
Lucifer: Charlie! You don't understand. Heaven never listens. They didn't listen to me. They won't listen to you.
Charlie: You don't know that!a
In Scream rain
Valentino: Plus, I don't even know why you're asking. You just do whatever the fuck you want anyway, all for your stupid fucking plan, right?
[Alastor looks at Vox with a smug face]
Valentino: And this whole thing, (Valentino waves a hand at Alastor) it's getting old fast, Vox.
love these visual parallels
Val and Lu both have musical numbers expressing their love for C&V and their fears of losing them:
Lu: ♪ I won't lose it all again. Now you're the only thing worth fighting for. ♪ [While he is singing, silhouettes of higher angels appear, surrounding Lucifer with spears. Next shot shows Charlie being surrounded by spears that slowly come towards her, with Lucifer noticing them in horror, and pulls Charlie away on the other side to defend her.] ♪ More than anything, more than anything. ♪ ♪ I'll shelter and adore you more than anything ♪
Valentino: ♪ Val, don't be dramatic ♪/♪ He's just a man ♪/♪ He's being rude 'cause he's stressed-out/♪ trying to do his master plan ♪/♪ Think about the future, Val ♪/♪ Don't let success break up the band ♪/♪ But as he rises higher ♪/♪ things aren't like they were before ♪/♪ And if he glows any brighter ♪/♪ will he see me anymore? ♪
But Lu's is a number he shares with Charlie, while Val's is a monologue. He shares it with Vel, not with Vox. Lu fears the Angels will take Charlie away from him, that she'll die to them; Val fears Vox will leave him if he gets too powerful. And while this openness between Charlie and Lu does let them start repairing their relationship, it isn't enough to stop it from going sour again a bit in Season 2, which we'll get to. Val doesn't share his feelings with Vox, who is too caught up in s2 with his plan anyway, and it leads to a real fracture between them.
So in 1x05, we see Charlie and Lu open up to each other and repair their relationship a bit:
Charlie and Lucifer: ♪ All that I'm hopin' ♪ /♪ now that my eyes are open, is that we can start again, ♪ /♪ not be pulled apart again /'Cause in the end, You are part of who I am. ♪ /Lucifer: ♪ I'll support your dream, whatever lies in store. ♪
With Vox and the Vees, of course, they started the series in a much more secure place, so their moment of reconciliation will have to be in the future, hopefully. But this also doesn't bode well for Charlie and her family in season 3, since Alastor seems to be fully planning on sowing the same seeds of discord between the Morningstars he sowed between the Vees. And we've seen that Charlie is just susceptible enough to his manipulations to believe him.
I think C&V both will probably need to deal with alienating their family because of Alastor in Season 3; now, it's possible Alastor might in both of their cases have wanted to keep them at some point, but he feels rejected by them both now and his undermining of their families is motivated by revenge as much as by possessiveness. So C&V both need to work towards building up trust and bonds again with Lu, Val and Vel, the people who, when the chips are down, really will be there for them. (Also in Charlie's case, Vaggie and her hotel friends). Both C&V's arcs are probably about learning to appreciate the people they do have instead of chasing after approval from people who are either A, manipulating them, or B, don't love them - or at least not enough to really treat them right.
