Rafe: We have to kill off Siuan because she was basically useless in the book after her stilling
Every Siuan fan: You fool. You uncomprehending baboon. Every book Siuan fan agrees that Siuan's story BEGINS after her stilling. Before the stilling, she's just a poor fisher girl who couldn't even read who rose to become the most powerful woman in the world (and who was, according to the author himself, one of the most competent Amyrlins to ever take the seat), which is inspiring by itself. After the stilling, after her power and wealth and influence and even her friends have been taken from her, she still chooses to get up and say "I'm still fighting the Dark One, though. With no gas in my tank and nothing left to give up, I'm still fighting the Dark One." AND SHE DOES. She's the literal epitome of "It was about all of us." you utterly media-illiterate troglodyte.
idk if people are being intentionally obtuse or what but the problem is not that Siuan was killed off - it's the WAY she was killed off
it's not that she was killed, it's that she was betrayed, humiliated, dragged like an object, brutalized, and given the textbook-most-'here's how you dehumanize a human being' dehumanizing death ALL! so the camera could zoom in on Rosamund Pike screaming and crying
that's it
they took the black lesbian character and in that instant, made it crystal clear that her only purpose, value, and point after all this time was to be Moiraine's Girlfriend. in that instant, every second of screen time, every offscreen story beat, every interview or teaser hyping up and praising this character and her relationship, was all recontextualized. all along, there was never a Siuan Sanche in WOT On Prime - only Moiraine's Girlfriend - and now there never will be
it's not an overreaction to be disgusted by the way this character's death was handled. it's not an overreaction to have it sour your outlook on a show that went out of its way to raise a queer relationship from subtext to text - explicitly to give it the care and depth that many felt was missing from the books - only to put Tara in front of the window just so Willow could go off the rails again like 25 god damn years later but with a heaping helping of Disposable Black Girlfriend on top
it would in fact have been possible to kill this black lesbian character in a conscientious and tasteful fashion - even if it was still upsetting, baffling, stupid, or wasteful - and the fact is that the choice was made otherwise
some people saw the writing on the wall and those of us who didn't feel not just like idiots but betrayed idiots too
sure I'm certain some people are just upset their favorite ship got whacked and haven't examined it any deeper than that but it is deeper than that unfortunately!
I'm going to copy paste what I said on Discord, because I don't have the energy to rephrase this and I intend after this to move on with my life and enjoy my family, so.
[Spoilers for the Finale of the Wheel of Time Season 3]
The thing is. This death won't affect whether this will be a good fantasy show or not. After all, they wanted the new GoT, and that show did a lot worse. I'm sure many viewers (even among book readers!) won't be bothered by this, and the writers & co will probably cut a bunch of stuff from the books and still make a TV show that somehow works. A lot of people who are now watching because the show is getting mainstream will probably still enjoy it.
The part that I'm mad about is that WoT deliberately positioned itself as a queer-friendly & queer-positive show. Rafe had *multiple* interviews with queer content creators. They had a *major* feature article in THR just to talk about queerness. They basically told queer people that they were safe. On top of that, the WoT books are overall a very hopeful fantasy story: yes people go through very tough times, but almost none of the main characters died, and it's very much a light against darkness story. It resembles a lot to LotR on that aspect, and it's very different to doom and gloomy GoT in which people would die as soon as you get attached to them.
So when they *decided* to make Moiraine & Siuan canon and to promote it and hype it, then yes, wlw folks thought that maybe finally they'll get to be among the heroes of a fantasy story and get an interesting story across multiple seasons that will then get an hopeful ending, which I personally never got to experience before. But turns out we won't. And that's what I don't like, because it feels like we once again got played for drama and at the end we will be seen as "unreasonable fans dictating what a story should be".
I just don't understand! How How could Rosamund be okay with THAT choice for the finale ?!??!?!?
I don't know what executive producers do but I think she could have had a say in the matter!
I feel soooo betrayed !!!
WoT is my favourite show of all time and I loved it getting recognition with S3 and I supported it will all my heart but NOW I'm not shure I want it to get another season ... I could have never imagined writing this before this episode
I posted this right after watching the ep. in full shock. I do still want WoT S4 our great younger characters Nyneave, Mat, Egwene, Rand, Perrin, Elayne, Aviendha, Min ...
But I am still not okay with the choice because I just don't understand it
I just don't understand! How How could Rosamund be okay with THAT choice for the finale ?!??!?!?
I don't know what executive producers do but I think she could have had a say in the matter!
I feel soooo betrayed !!!
WoT is my favourite show of all time and I loved it getting recognition with S3 and I supported it will all my heart but NOW I'm not shure I want it to get another season ... I could have never imagined writing this before this episode
I MEAN IT - DO NOT CLICK BELOW THE CUT IF YOU HAVENâT SEEN 3x08 YET!
(Please be aware that this also contains spoilers for the entire book series!)
I want to step back from my raw shock and anger for a moment and look at the bigger picture. Because what happened to Siuan Sanche in The Wheel of Time TV adaptation is not just a pointless, premature, and unnecessarily gruesome character death done for shock value - itâs a case study in how harmful patterns in queer representation persist across television in 2025 to weaponize queer womenâs stories under the guise of âstakesâ, âemotionâ or âdrama.â Itâs also about how even creators who should know better continue to replicate those patterns.
Letâs be clear: Siuanâs death wasnât just tragic, it was narratively regressive. In a show that prides itself on representation and complexity, she was stripped not only of her characterization and future arcs (and with that, the arcs of other characters like Egwene), but was also publicly humiliated, stilled, and - just to top it all off - beheaded. Her death wasnât heroic, glorified, or thoughtfully written. It wasnât even romanticized or poetic. It was humiliating and off-putting, and it existed solely to shock the audience in wannabe Game of Thrones fashion and to provoke emotional development in another character: Moiraine.
This is fridging! A trope in which a (usually marginalized) character - often a woman - is killed off to provide emotional stakes or motivation for the protagonist. And to be clear: itâs not that characters (regardless of their background) canât die, itâs how and why they die that matters. And in this case, Siuanâs death is not about her. Itâs about what she can provoke in someone else, and about feeding a true shocker to the audience.
This would be frustrating on its own. But it becomes outright infuriating when you factor in another layer. Iâll leave you to do the research yourself, but letâs just say thereâs an overlap between the Siuaraine writing team and the writing staff of The 100. And if youâre not familiar, let me break it down for you: The 100 had one of the most infamous storylines and public outcries in the history of queer television representation. In episode âThirteenâ, Lexa - a beloved queer character - was killed by a stray bullet immediately after consummating her relationship with her partner Clarke. Lexaâs death became a flashpoint in media history, and the episode triggered global fan backlash. Itâs now shorthand for the âBury Your Gaysâ trope in the streaming age. But it wasnât just the loss of a character, it was a betrayal by the showrunner and the writersâ room. Fans had been promised meaningful, lasting queer representation, only to see it snatched away in an unnecessary and trope-laden way. The outcry led to global fan campaigns, interviews, fundraising, and the creation of The Lexa Pledge, where writers and showrunners promised to do better by their LGBTQIA+ characters.
So how is it that - nearly a decade later - the same creative figure is involved in a storyline that plays out almost identically? Just like Lexa, Siuan reconnects with her partner after a break only to be almost immediately taken away. Just like Lexa, she is a powerful woman in her own right (even though in Siuanâs case, the show repeatedly undermined her and painted her as incompetent or a failure), and just like Lexa, her death is staged not for her own arc but solely to spark transformation in another character.
This isnât just painful - itâs a clear repetition of an already well-documented mistake. It suggests not a lack of awareness, but a lack of care. To make matters worse, Wheel of Time showrunner Rafe Judkins has repeatedly spoken in interviews about how meaningful Moiraine and Siuanâs relationship is to him. He described it as âone of the central pillars of the showâ, called their love story âunlike anything else in fantasyâ, and emphasized how rare it is to see older queer women portrayed with such depth and power. That makes this decision all the more cynical. You do not get to publicly celebrate your queer characters as groundbreaking representation and then destroy one of them in the most violent way possible for the sake of anotherâs growth or fast-tracked future plotlines. Thatâs not brave. Thatâs not representation. Thatâs betrayal.
MAJOR BOOK SPOILER! And before anyone brings up âbook accuracyâ - yes, Siuan dies in the novels. But her death is vastly different, and she dies much later, after a fully fledged postâWhite Tower arc. At the very least, she dies in battle and is not beheaded in a public coup (sorry, but they really crossed a line here!). The TV version took liberties to make her death more brutal, more sensationalized, and more emotionally manipulative. This isnât about source material, itâs about adaptation choices and what those choices reveal about whose stories are allowed dignityâŚ.. SPOILER END!
And the message it sends for me - whether intentional or not - is this: queer women can be powerful, but they will be punished or even killed for it. They can find love, but not keep it. They can drive the narrative, but only until itâs convenient to kill them for drama or beelining the plot.
It didnât have to be this way. The Wheel of Time is a fantasy series - literally a genre built on rebirth, healing, time loops, and metaphysical bonds. If you must, there are countless ways to remove a character from the narrative while still honoring their legacy. Stilling and beheading one of the only queer women of color who is also a major character was not necessary. Making her go like that was not necessary. They had every narrative tool available to give her meaning, agency, and dignity. They chose not to.
And in making that choice, the showrunners have aligned themselves not with progress, but with a long line of creators who pay lip service to queer representation while continuing to exploit it for emotional weight and use the queer community as promotion. This was a devastating misstep, made worse by the fact that those responsible should have known better!
We are beyond isolated mistakes. We are in an era where queer trauma has been commodified for dramatic weight over and over again, and yet, the responsible creatives continue to repackage it as prestige television.
Weâve seen this story before.
We begged you not to tell it again.
You said you wouldnât⌠and told it anyway.
And this isnât just about Siuan. Itâs about every story like hers and every showrunner or writer who promises, âThis time, itâll be different,â while making sure itâs exactly the same.
No matter what comes next, even if we get an explanation or apology: no. Whatâs done is done, and I wonât accept your excuses. If the backlash gets bad enough and we suddenly get a âsurprise, surpriseâ fakeout - that it was all a dream, or she gets balefired back to life or whatever deus ex machina solution you can muster - no. Thatâs cheap and even more insulting. If she turns out to be a Dreamer in Telâaranârhiod or a Hero of the Horn - again, no. Thatâs still robbing her of her plotline and flatlining her arc. So no matter what the show does or offers us, my trust has been broken irreparably. You donât get to play us like that.
That being said, things are about to change around here. Iâm deeply grateful for the love this community has shown me over the past five years. You made me a fan, a friend, a writer, an artist, an enthusiast. But those times are painfully coming to an end - at least in their current form.
Iâll try to stick to art and writing, not for the sake of the show, but for the sake of the fandom and the community Iâve found here. I canât say how much time Iâll need to breathe more freely again, but I do believe we need to stick together. If you need someone to talk to, my DMs are always open. However, if you just want to argue with me or mess around - youâll be blocked! This post is not an open invitation to debate why my opinion is âwrongâ and why the show was right to kill off Siuan like that.
When I heard the theme Horn of Valere play while he was doing his heroic act, I think there's a possibility that we'll see him again as one of the Heroes of the Horn. Just like what they did with Uno. But truly as a book reader, NEVER did I think they had the guts to do that to OUR SOFT BOIIIIIIđĽş. AND he never even got the chance to go back to a stedding.
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