I am also rereading Naruto, and you are a little ahead of me. I am enjoying your rants so much!
I did read some of the later books first because I love Akatsuki (Hidan and Deidara my beloved) and I so agree on Jiraya. He is the worst. Having the chosen one in you care (Nagato) then leaving him after two years (instead of like, bringing him to Konoha to mold as pleased) and then have the oudacity to be surprised that he turned bad.
Like you had one job.
Enjoy enjoy, and I will follow along on your thoughts haha
Hi!
I presume by books you mean volumes, I've never seen anyone refer to them as books before lmao. I'm honestly not exactly keeping up with what volume I am currently in, I just do 10 chapters a day otherwise my brain will rot from the amount of daily Naruto. Yes it does mean it takes me like 3 weeks to get to the first appearance of my favorite characters (the looks my friends give me when I try to recommend them Naruto and then, when asked who my favorite character is and when do they appear, I hit them with "yeah it's like around chapter 247?"), but I will overdose on cringe otherwise. It's still a lot of fun if you turn your brain off and don't think about how half of this cast and plotlines will go nowhere (rip Konoha kids outside of team 7, you really are about to be hit with the Glup Shitto beam), but partially why I am doing this reread is try and get as many facts out of the manga itself and make sense of the worldbuilding.
Anyway, ugh, Jiraya. Honestly, I don't think I ever particularly cared for his character on the previous rereads - maybe because he's such a forgettable character to me that each time I just genuinely forgot how important to Naruto's life and family retcons made him? Obviously, by not considering what he previously established and just winging it with the rule of cool, Kishimoto had made quite a few characters bums, frauds and dumb sadists in the OG Naruto (cough cough Kakashi cough), but Jiraya is just something else.
Credit where it's due (and with bar dropped in hell, there really is none) this guy at least teaches Naruto some jutsu. Plural. At least Naruto becomes a better shinobi for that - can't say the same for Kakashi who had spent the last 200 chapters glazing and training exclusively Sasuke (presumably out of Kishimoto's great obsession with the Sharingan). But oh my fucking god he sucks ass in everything else.
Let's ignore the sexual harassment elephant in the room for now and address the thing manga tries to portray him as: awesome and supportive sensei for however many generations of students he had. Like, like what the fuck is that?! This guy is ASS.
Here's the timeline for reference: around year 50 since Konoha's foundation Jiraya becomes sensei for Minato and his teammates (Minato's Academy graduation age is 10) and about a year later the Second Shinobi World War comes to an end (I won't elaborate here on why because Naruto and its bullshit timeline, you can check out the pinned to see why I assume so). The Third Shinobi World War doesn't start until year 58, which means Minato's training period happened during those short peaceful years. Honestly I can't say much about this particular team of his because there's like no info on them, but it does make one wonder the quality of Jiraya as a teacher if we only see and hear about Minato who was already an outlier among his generation (saved Kushina from being abducted before graduating the Academy). Also, for some reason one of his students would be raceswapped and end up seemingly becoming a Kumo descendant, so I'd really like the lore on that and what came to be of that guy.
Anyway, the reason why Minato's training period is important is because it kinda destroys what Kishimoto tried to establish during Jiraya/Nagato flashbacks, as Jiraya couldn't have met the Ame orphans with the fellow Sannins during the Second Shinobi World War (and they got their nickname from Salamander Hanzo who was running Ame before Pain overthrew him some time after the end of the Third Shinobi World War) and stay with them for the next 3 years for training. For one, and it is the problem within canon too - uh, no fucking way Danzo is permitting one of their strongest shinobi sit on his ass and play house with some random kids in a bordering minor nation when Konoha is dying en-masse and they've only just figured out that adding a medic to the teams is a good way of improving the longevity of an average ninja (oh and Tsunade soon goes out of comission because of her PTSD). Hiruzen being the bum that he is may have allowed that, but Danzo would have chewed his neck off if that did happen. Issue number two - once again, Minato's training period that should have lasted for some time, which means Jiraya had to stay in Konoha for at least years 50-52, meaning Jiraya could have absolutely not met the Ame orphans during the Second Shinobi World War as they would have been literally 5 years old or younger (Nagato and co are 5 years Minato's juniors), and Jiraya in the flashbacks is not teaching pre-school babies, they look like they're pre-Shippuden's Naruto/Gaiden's Kakashi age, so at least 10 years or older, which means he only could have taught them starting with year 55 or so.
Which actually lines up pretty nicely with the year 58 and Third Shinobi World War limit - Jiraya teaches the kids for 3 years, then the war breaks out and Jiraya gets a very strongly worded letter from Konoha about what leadership thinks of him doing fuck nothing in Konoha-Iwa-Suna triangle's meatgrinder and why he should haul his ass back as soon as possible. Him hauling his ass as soon as possible is actually sort of confirmed by the 2023 Minato one-shot - Jiraya is in Konoha at the start of the Third Shinobi World War (fighting Iwa's jinchuriki + BUT Minato is yet to get his genin, that would happen about a year after the start of the war). This actually explains why he was so quick to leave Ame, the circumstances called for it.
What this shit does not explain is WHY THE FUCK Jiraya never decided to pick those kids up and bring them to Konoha. Didn't want to propagandize them into Konoha's values? Bruh, like anyone from Konoha ever gave a shit about that. Some sort of respect for their wishes to stay in Ame the shithole? Yeah, well, you're the adult in that shack, the Bum Sage, so take off the frog fursuit, lock in and raise them somewhere they don't have to fight for a piece of bread every morning. If we assume Jiraya to be Konoha's grand patriot (and considering he ran off to fight Iwa so soon it's a safe bet), then he has even more reasons to drag the UZUMAKI CHILD WITH SAGE OF SIX PATH'S DOJUTSU straight into Konoha's Academy. Argh... ugh... nghrbfndhd he's pissing me off so bad.
Speaking of which, how the hell did it never cross his mind to bring Nagato to Konoha if not for the reasons above, then to at least try and connect him with the rest of his clan? Not even necessarily Kushina - though Jiraya should absolutely know his favorite student's girlfriend's name - Uzushio still existed before the Third Shinobi World War! Think you're gonna be a shitty teacher to them - send them to Nagato's people dammit!
WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE JIRAYA?! WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO COOK BY LEAVING THOSE KIDS IN AME TO BE EATEN ALIVE BY THE NON-STOP FIGHTING?! ohhhhh my god
ok, fine, you had to run off back into your village because of a giant war breaking out, ok, fine, you just HAD TO leave the Ame three where you found them, but WHAT WERE YOU DOING IN THE AFTERMATH? the audacity of that bitch returning to Ame 20 years later, rediscovering Konan and Yahiko's corpse pupeteered by Nagato and going "huh. I really thought y'all were dead"
LIKE BRO WHAT SORT OF SENSEI SAYS THAT? DID IT EVEN OCCUR TO YOU TO SEARCH FOR THEM? OR WERE YOU TRAVELLING ACROSS THE CONTINENT'S BROTHELS AS SOON AS MINATO'S CORPSE HIT THE GROUND?
and the funniest thing is, the excuse Kishimoto relies on whenever the topic of what a bum Jiraiya is comes up during that 15 or so year long chunk of time from Naruto's birth to his first meeting with him - um aktually he was doing very important spy work, amazing spy, fantastic spy, we all in Konoha rely on him - just simply doesn't work, because Jiraiya didn't know fucking shit about the people he was supposedly spying on. yeah, sure, his original goal was Orochimaru, yeah, sure, Nagato no longer went by the same name or appearance and Yahiko was in a better place, but the moment he researched anything about the past or present history of Akatsuki - as a militia and as a terrorist organization - he would have stumbled upon Konan, his student, being involved in both, and the connection and questions are quite obvious from there. but nope, we've got a spy who doesn't seem to do any spying.
and, of course, the deadbeat treatment of Naruto, like it is genuinely maddening that in Kishimoto's mind two statements - "Naruto had an awful and lonely childhood, he was orphaned and hated by the villagers around him" and "Jiraiya was de-facto his godfather, a sensei to Naruto's father, a close friend to both of his parents, a legendary ninja, and he only appeared in Naruto's life when he became genin and there really is no excuse for his abscence because whatever work he was doing sure didn't have any results" - must coexist in harmony. Nagato murdering Jiraiya was a divine retribution from the Uzumaki clan and Kushina in particular, I swear to god
And, finally😇the sexual harassment elephant.
You know, the jokes about "kyaaaa h-h-hentai BAKA!" are an old thing in shonen. Perhaps it's a thing the target audience (teenage boys from Japan) finds funny, perhaps it's just the common sense of humor among the shonen writers (Japanese men), whatever, doesn't really matter. Well, it does, but I'll elaborate on it later.
The point is, Jiraya is not one unique specimen of a pervert in the manga. Iruka has nosebleed moment, Hiruzen does, Ebisu does, Kakashi reads porn in public, etc etc. But the difference between them and Mr. J. Epstein over here is that a) that gag is used like once or twice with each character b) it's not some sort of defining feature of this character c) ultimately their pervy moments don't really have a butt of the joke/an unknowing victim of borderline sexual harassement. Iruka/Hiruzen/Ebisu's moments come from Naruto pulling the Sexy-no-Jutsu and transforming into a non-existent naked girl. Kakashi is reading his E rated fanfiction, he's on that 9-5 (AM) sigma antidepressant grind.
But Jiraiya?
He's peeking into women's onsen and doesn't want to do his shinobi duties. Haha. Get it? He's trying to spy on their naked boobies and vagenes. Ahahaha. Funny, innit? Oh, and here he's ignoring the mission again in order to get drunk and have girls like 2-3 decades younger than him to hug him, possibly for money. Ahahahahaha. He's such a funny perv, innit? Crazy uncle, always gets into these situations. Oh, and here he's demanding Naruto to train only in the Sexy-no-Jutsu form! Ahahahaha, he's always such a riot, isn't he?
And there's like a fucking dozen of such scenes scattered around since his appearance. For reference, that's about chapter 90 and I am currently on chapter 210. This guy is absent in like half of the arcs in that stretch of chapters. It just never stops.
Maybe I have become an old bitchy hag, but I really don't see anything hilarious in a 50 something old man acting this way, especially considering his high-ranking position and duties to Konoha. On a good moment it's just comes off as pathetic and creepy, and on certain incidents you genuinely can't even react with anything but "what the actual fuck is wrong with you"
This especially becomes concerning when we are supposed to treat this shit as "funny haha moments" and not a negative characterization of the guy who's supposed to be on the good side (unlike what happens with Orochimaru). I just can't really find anything funny in the casual harassement that real girls and women in Japan are regularly subjected to and told to treat as something normal and unserious, "guys will be guys", yada yada. Searching Naruto for representation of modern day Japan's societal issues and commentary on them is a bit of a lost cause, but with Jiraiya I'm pretty sure Kishimoto is heavily self-reporting on his views on these things. I mean, not that I would expect anything different from a man who spent 15 years making an entire generation's most popular manga and ended up creating only one actual female character that doesn't get written out of the plot by the end of the arc she's introduced in because he just struggles that much with conceiving a woman's mind that doesn't operate like a misogynyst's parody of what a woman is.
Oh, and, of course, how can we forget Jiraiya's "Best Sensei in the Series🤩🤩🤩🤩" most fantastic moment that really shows what an upstanding individual he is: guess what he had to say to his only female student, Konan, as he was abruptly abandoning them for Konoha? Some words of encouragement? Something about the strong kunoichi she can be and how she can now protect her friends? Pffft, of course not.
"Hey girlie you're gonna be a real hot babe one day, hit me up when you turn 18😜😜😜😜"
btw that guy is like 32 and Konan is about 13 give or take
really makes you wonder why we didn't really see the 3 years of Ame orphans' training from Konan's POV. Nagato is having his own journey of spirituality and understanding of the world he came into, meanwhile Konan is a protagonist in a Resident Evil spinoff
maybe that's why manicure and pedicure was mandatory in Akatsuki, Konan was weeding out any man unqueer enough for such things. didn't really work in the end, considering that they hired Jiraiya's ex-buddy Orochimaru and that guy still ended up trying to non-consensually enter a 13 year old, but that time it was a boy, not a girl
also, while writing this post, I ended up wondering something: What Did Hiruzen Mean When He Gave Jiraiya a Team of Only Boys🤨🤨🤨🤨
anyway, that's enough food for thought for one day. thank you for the ask!
p.s. I've recently been digging in the ancient texts (forums dedicated to Naruto as it was releasing, so people discussing theories back in 2000s) and found our ancestors pondering this gem
so now I'll be going to sleep with a smile, thinking that if Pain's divine judgement wouldn't have gotten Jiraiya's ass, then syphilis would😇
