Whovianravenclaw asked : I'd love to have some insight into how growing up in Quebec with French as a first language will affect someone's English, other than just in terms of accent. Are there particular grammatical tendencies in people's English when it is their second language (and they are fluent but not at native level) and their first is French (specifically Quebecois French ofc)? I'm bilingual myself, with English as my second language, but a) my first language is not French and b) I'm at near-native fluency in English, and I can no longer emulate English-as-a-second-language. It would be super helpful to get some info on this as a writing reference!
Hello !
Well other than the accent (of course). I think that the thing that affected more my english (being french) was the pronounciation of certain things ? Also some others things :
When I first started english classes (a loooooong time ago), I remember I had difficulties with the pronounciation of certain words. TO THIS DAY, I have still trouble saying the word “Mirror”.
The structure of a sentence. Most of the time in french, the adjective will follow the subject (there is exception of course). For example, we will say « La ville moderne » while in english you will say “This modern city”
Every word has a gender in french. In english, “the, a, an, this, that, those, my, your, all, both, etc.” are used, no matter if the subject is masculine or feminine (there’s exception of course). In french, the gender of the word will affect the article. Masculine words will have the articles : « le, un, son, cet, ... » While feminine words will use those articles : «la, une, sa, cette, ... ». (Note: I only used singular articles for that example).
English Uses a Lot of Capitals Letters While French Doesn’t Use a Lot ??? It’s Hard to Learn Where to Put Capitals and Where You Don’t ??? I’m Still Not Sure Sometimes ???
Also just a quick note, people in Québec speaks french, not French Québecois. French from Québec or French from France will still be the same language. Of course, there will be variations in accents, expressions and certain use of words. But each region has “slangs”.
A person from L’Île-de-la-Madeleine has a different accent and expressions from someone from Québec City or from Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean. All three of them still speaks french.
It’s the same if you take a person from Marseilles, one from Paris and one person from Belgium. They will all talk french, but with slight variations.
But back to the subject !!
I think this is something that is specific to each person.
You also have to take in consideration the place where the character or person is from IN Québec. For example, most of my friends who were born or lived a long time in Montréal, have better accents (usually) or no accent at all in english. That is because there’s anglophone in Montréal and a lot of places and person to practice with. If you come from, for exemple, Rimouski, well there’s WAAYYYY less anglophone/english things there. You will have english classes and everything, but you won’t necessarily have a daily english part.
(But this doesn’t really apply anymore. With internet easily accessible, kids have better access to english sources like TV shows, video games (HUGE HELP), books, fanfics (ehehehe), ...)
If other french people wants to share their thoughts on the question, feel free! Everyone has difference experience and level of english. Also nobody grew up with the same education english-wise.
Continuing with the shoes question, does architecture, interior design, or both reflect that you don't wear shoes indoors? Like, Japan has genkan where you take it from your shoes. Then you step up into the house. Or is it just typically like a foyer or hallway where you just kick off your shoes and maybe there's storage?
Well we don’t have genkan per se but some houses has a little entry space. In that space there’s often place to put shoes and boots. There is also often a closet in the entry where you put coats/vests/shoes/etc.
For visual, my house and a lot of my friends houses (constructed in the ~1990) are split level type houses :
So there was usually a space to put shoes (like under the bench or in the little desk thingy in that entryway). Shoes and boots are usually put neatly. Also, the shoes that are usually left by the door are shoes and/or boots you use often. All my heels are in my closet since I don’t wear them all the time. During the spring/summer, my winter boots are also in my closet but when it’s winter, they’re always by the door.
But you also have to take in the factor that not everyone has the same house rules and/or like things to be clean. One person I know never took her shoes off in her apartment because there was shit and cat litter everywhere…. so. Yeah.
I think I've heard that people don't usually wear shoes in the house in Canada?
Hi !
Well I can’t say for ALL of Canada but in Québec we always take off our shoes when we enter someone’s home. I don’t know if there’s a particular reason for it. Probably has to do with snow but USA gets snow too so ?
Seriously the only time I had shoes on in my home was 1) if I forgot something and grab it real quick (and it’s summer so it’s pretty outside so my shoes are clean) OR 2) when there’s was renovation in my house and it was dangerous to walk without shoes.
It’s always weird watching american TV shows. My mom is always saying (in french) “Yeah, they keep their shoes on ‘cuz it’s their MOM cleaning the floor”.
I love this, thank you so much for making it! This is quite a serious topic so no worries if it's not a good one for the blog, but my family are from Catalonia in Spain where there is a significant movement for independence from the rest of Spain, and I was wondering how much there is a similar movement with Quebec currently? And in particular what side you think Jack and his family might come down on?
First of all,sorry for the late answer ! Second, thank you so much! Third of all, I’ll beanswering the question the best I can with my memories of my history classes aswell as my old class history books ahahah. Okay now onto the question !
There is (was?), infact, a huge movement for theindependance of Québec.
I think people, even younger people in Qc, do still have an opinion about this. I’ve never given much thought to how Jack would feel about it, but I don’t get the sense that he has a strong attachment to Québécois culture specifically (or if he does, then there haven’t been many clues in the comics about it?). His mother is American after all, and he probably went through his early childhood in Pittsburgh while his dad was playing for the Pens. Maybe I’m projecting, but I feel he’d maybe be a little more anti-separatist. So here, those are my 2 cents.
I love this, thank you so much for making it! This is quite a serious topic so no worries if it's not a good one for the blog, but my family are from Catalonia in Spain where there is a significant movement for independence from the rest of Spain, and I was wondering how much there is a similar movement with Quebec currently? And in particular what side you think Jack and his family might come down on?
First of all,sorry for the late answer ! Second, thank you so much! Third of all, I’ll beanswering the question the best I can with my memories of my history classes aswell as my old class history books ahahah. Okay now onto the question !
There is (was?), infact, a huge movement for theindependance of Québec.
(long post under the cut)
In 1976, theParti Québecois (PQ for short) takes powerof the government and begins their initiative of the independance of Québec. TheParti Québecois are « séparatiste » (sovereignist), which advocated the secession of Québec from the restof Canada. At the beginning, they wanted to like, come into power and beall MOM I’M NOT A KID ANYMORE I’M A GROWN ASS PROVINCE COUNTRY and justlike… gtfo. BUT after discussions they decided to do a referendum because adeclaration of independance would be more recognize and accepted if, like,there was a majority of its population that were agreeing to it. Right?
Backto the story, so the PQ wins the elections, promise to elect a referendum soonabout the potential seperation of Quebec. They also instore « La Loi101 » (Bill 101), which is the protection of the french language (I willdo an entire post on this bill to explain it).
In 1980, there is a referendum about it. The question was :
« Le Gouvernement du Québec a fait connaîtresa proposition d’en arriver, avec le reste du Canada, à une nouvelle ententefondée sur le principe de l’égalité des peuples ; cette entente permettrait auQuébec d'acquérir le pouvoir exclusif de faire ses lois, de percevoir sesimpôts et d’établir ses relations extérieures, ce qui est la souveraineté, et,en même temps, de maintenir avec le Canada une association économiquecomportant l’utilisation de la même monnaie ; aucun changement de statutpolitique résultant de ces négociations ne sera réalisé sans l’accord de lapopulation lors d’un autre référendum ; en conséquence, accordez-vous auGouvernement du Québec le mandat de négocier l’entente proposée entre le Québecet le Canada ? »
( "TheGovernment of Quebec has made public its proposal to negotiate a new agreementwith the rest of Canada, based on the equality of nations; this agreement wouldenable Quebec to acquire the exclusive power to make its laws, levy its taxesand establish relations abroad - in other words, sovereignty - and at the sametime to maintain with Canada an economic association including a commoncurrency; any change in political status resulting from these negotiations willonly be implemented with popular approval through another referendum; on theseterms, do you give the Government of Quebec the mandate to negotiate theproposed agreement between Quebec and Canada? " )
So basically the PQ wanted a sovereignty-association, thatwould let the Quebec makes its own decisions bUT would still have arelationship economic wise with the rest of Canada (also would keep the CAD currency).I guess it wanted to be like… a smol smol EU ?
Well the answer to that questionwas : 40,44% yes / 59,56% no.
At the time, people were sayingthat it was Montreal’s fault as that the majority of NO voters were from oraround Montreal… There was a lot of tention around that time.
FOLLOWING THAT
There’s been another referendumin 1995 that would ask a similar question :
"Do youagree that Quebec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer toCanada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of thebill respecting the future of Quebec and of the agreement signed on June 12,1995? "
This time around, the margin wasmuch closer than the first one : 49.42% yes / 50.58% no.
Once again, there was a lot ofanger and tension. There were controversies and shit happened for the nextdecade :
"Controversies over both theprovincial vote counting and direct federal financial involvement in the finaldays of the campaign reverberated in Canadian politics for over a decade afterthe referendum took place. In the aftermath of the close result, the federalgovernment, after unilaterally recognizing Quebec as a distinct society andamending the federal constitutional veto procedure, referred the issue to theSupreme Court of Canada, which stated that the unilateral secessioncontemplated in the referendum was illegal. " (Source)
I wasn’t born when the firstreferendum occured and was only two years old when the second one happened, soI can’t talk from experience (obviously). But from what I know and what I’veheard from people who were old enough during both, I think that people who wantQuebec to split are louder than does who don’t.
To this day, there is stilldebate about whether or not Quebec should be on its own. Hell, it’s often useas a debate question in high schools.
Politicians often talks about it in their campaign speech and I often hear debate/conversations between people in the streets or at Tim Hortons.
Also, this is a big subject so I tried to be as short as I can be.
OKAY ABOUT JACK.
Sorry for the huge rambling. Ithink that Jack would be torn. I think Jack is proud, as most french-canadianare, to say that he’s from Québec. ("Oh you’re American!" "No,I’m Québcois" "???" "French-canadian. Canada"). (French-canadianstend to say they’re Québecois instead of saying they’re Canadian. And then sayCanadian when people are like wut?).
I think Jack loves his province,its history and its culture. But I think that Jack would want to see a 100%prepared, fullproof plan, power point shit, explaining how Quebec would sustainitself as a country before exploring the question. Quebec has A LOT of renewable ressource (Hydro Québec, forexample), so it could be an okay plan but like... I think Jack likes preparation *wink wink*
But to be honest, while Jack isconfused and a little torn about his feelings on that subject. I think thatmillenials (aka Jack too) have other things more important than sovereigntyon their minds. There is a lot of problems in Québec (like elsewhere) like the minimum wage, corruptionsalmost everywhere, the economy fucking us up, environment, sexism/unequality, the missing and murderedaboriginal women cases/racISM (yes it’s a thing in Canada. Quebec/Canada is notthe perfect land internet paint it to be). I think those subjects are more important to him thanwhether or not Quebec should be on its own.
(Also, most of the people aroundmy age don’t actually care that much about sovereignty to be honest. Ahaha.Like I said, we have other more important thing to worry about).
But anyway that’s only my opinionabout Jack’s thoughts on the whole thing ! Though I think Bob would be aseparatist and loud about it and Alicia (being quiet but against it) would belike "Sweetie, I love you but stfu you’re scaring the neighboors".
I hope I answered your question ! I’m sure other Québecois(e)will also have their opinions and bits to share so stay alert if that’sthe case ! This blog is also to open discussion and share different opinion so don’t hesitate !
0 - Pré-maternelle / Pre-kindergarten (or pre-school) is OPTIONAL (4-5)
0 - Maternelle / Kindergarten (5-6)
1 - Première année / Grade 1 (6-7)
2- Deuxième année / Grade 2 (7-8)
3 - Troisième année / Grade 3 (8/9)
4 - Quatrième année / Grade 4 (9-10)
5 - Cinquième année / Grade 5 (10-11)
6 - Sixième année / Grade 6 (11-12)
SECONDARY SCHOOL (...or high school)
Secondaire 1 / Secondary 1 (12-13)
Secondaire 2 / Secondary 2 (13-14)
Secondaire 3 / Secondary 3 (14-15)
Secondaire 4 / Secondary 4 (15-16)
Secondaire 5 / Secondary 5 (16-17)
! ABOUT FRENCH/ENGLISH EDUCATION !
“Every students as to attend primary and secondary school in french (according to the Charter of the French Language). There are, of course, some exceptions :
students to whom a parent did most of their elementary or secondary studies in English in Canada and the parent is a Canadian citizen
students who have already done all or most of their elementary or secondary studies in English in Canada, or who have a sibling who has received most of their education in English in Canada, as long as a parent is a Canadian citizens
These exceptions don’t apply on students that are here for a temporary time or First Nation student. Also, if your parent had the right to go to english school but did not, then the children won’t be able to attend english school (you basically lost your right to).” (Source)
POST-SECONDARY
Formation générale des adultes (FDA) / General Educational Development (GED)
For 16+ people if they wish to continue and/or return to school. Offers classes from Grade 1 to Secondary 5. Also offers “francization” classes (french-classes for immigrants) and literacy classes.
Cégep (DEC) / (DCS)
“Post-secondary education collegiate that offers pre-university programs (2 years) and/or technical formation (3 years). The pre-universities programs (Science, Arts, Communication, Humanities, etc.) leads to university while technical programs (Industrial Electronics, Nursing, Theater, Computer Science, etc.) leads to labor market. While technical formation leads usually to direct employment, you can also continue to university if you wish for.” (Source)
Both programs offers a DEC/DCS.
Note 1 : CÉGEP stands for Collège d’enseignement général et professionel (General and Vocational College)
Note 2 : There is private colleges, though only public colleges will go by CÉGEP.
Attestation d’études collégiales (AEC) / Attestation of collegial studies (ACS)
“Attestations of Collegial Studies are credited and recognized collegial programs of study that are shorter in duration and built from existing DCS programs. They have been specially created for adults, to reflect the most recent job market reality. The list of ACS programs that appears on this site will be updated twice a year.” (Source)
Diplôme d’études professionnelles (DEP) / Diploma of Professional Studies (not sure about that translation lol? - DPS ?)
This diploma is a class that aims to prepare the student for jobs like cook, health care assistant, carpenter, plumber, etc. To obtain a diploma, you must take the class and complete between 600 and 1800 hours (hours varies according to the chosen course).
Université / University
A DEC/DCS is required to enter university (or if 21+ and fits certain criteria). In Québec, the universities and independent from the government and autonomous in *cough*fucking badly*cough* managing their affairs.
Note : There’s only 3 english universities (McGill, Concordia and Bishop’s University)
Fun Fact : the oldest university in Québec is l’Université de Laval (which is situated in Québec City, not Laval) and it was created in 1663.
A brief informal history of why some people in Canada speak French
France established colonies in “Canada” in the 1500s (calling it “Nouvelle-France” or New France), but quickly realized it was more trouble than it was worth because winter turned everything into a frozen hellscape. One day Britain came knocking and wanted to take it over because they had their own colonies nearby. France and Britain fought; Britain finally won in 1763. There were some assimilation efforts to convert the french-speaking population language-wise and religion-wise, but, well, they were evidently unsuccessful. “Canada” eventually became self-governing in 1867. The end.
I think the whole confusion with “Québécois” vs French comes from the way it’s spoken. There’s a large discrepancy between written and spoken French; there’s only one way to write French, whether you’re from Canada, France, Haiti, Senegal, etc, just like there’s only one way to write English (colour/color, gray/grey and some other words notwithstanding). Yes, the accent is different and the slang is VERY different in different parts of world (just like English!) but when I write French, I write it the same way someone from France would. When I give serious presentations, I don’t throw around French Canadian slang because they would be vastly inappropriate, but my accent and some word contractions remain. On the other hand, when I’m having a casual conversation in French, I contract a lot more words/don’t pronounce certain syllables and use expressions that I wouldn’t use if I was speaking in a serious setting. This casual way of speaking is indeed rather far removed from the way it would be written.
For example, “I do not want it” is “Je ne le veux pas”. French Canadians tend to drop the “ne” when speaking, but they most definitely write it or else it wouldn’t be proper grammar! But the way I would say it phonetically would be closer to “J’le veux pas” because contractions are used extensively to lessen the number of syllables spoken.
I hope this can clear some things up! These are generalizations and obviously individuals can have different speech patterns, but I tried to convey the general idea.
The first time Bitty sets foot in Montréal, he finds himself staring at a stop sign for a solid minute.
It’s one thing to know, intellectually, that Montréal is a French city, but it’s another thing entirely to experience it, to be faced with the evidence firsthand. From road signs to menus to price tags, everything is in French.
“ARRÊT”, the stop sign reads. And all Bitty can think of is how do you pronounce that accent again?
It’s a bit overwhelming, to say the least, but Jack seems totally at ease as he navigates them through the airport and then out into the parking lot. He manages to find his dad’s SUV, already waiting for them, and helps Bitty haul his luggage into the trunk. Jack slides into the front seat next to his dad, keeping the conversation in English—for Bitty’s sake, he imagines—while Bitty slides into the back. They break off into French for a short moment, and Bitty doesn’t remember enough of his French class despite Jack’s continued efforts to teach him to keep up. He does however notice the way Jack’s shoulders sink back into the seat’s leather, his smile calm and easy, unguarded in a way he rarely lets himself be while out in public.
Bitty glances outside, catches a few French words on the nearest road sign, and an inexplicable warmth fills his chest. So this is home to him, he thinks, and he treasures the feeling because it makes him feel that much closer to Jack. And maybe, just maybe, suddenly makes him feel like he understands him a little more.
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