After a couple weeks of hanging out and reading other people's thoughts and analyses, I think the biggest surprise to me is still the fact that my first thought about Vox's sex life was "What's he into?" And then finding out everyone else is arguing about whether he tops or bottoms. Especially when the argument seems to be "canon says he's a top" vs "canon is wrong". It's a novel experience, canon having a say in characters' sex lives.
I'm not gonna ask why it matters, because I'm a shipper too. I get it. Sometimes you have a character who, for whatever reason, you only want to see in a specific role. And I know fandom has a thing about treating gay ships like stereotypical straight couples, so I can't say I'm surprised that the bottom!Vox agenda is mostly fueled by images of him looking "pathetic" (I am judging all of you for it, though).
And to be clear, this isn't about headcanons or kink projection. I could not care less what you want to do to your favorite characters, or why. Have fun. Or make yourself sad, whichever.
But I'm like. The "he's canonically a top" faction just points to the fact that he canonically tops and calls the matter closed, even though we don't know if he always tops. If there's actual analysis, it's something about gender roles and how he needs power/control too much to bottom. And the "canon is trying so hard to push him as a top" faction is subsisting purely on vibes and pictures of him being sad, shy, or embarrassed. Because apparently, a man who does not perform masculinity 24/7 cannot be a top, or dominant. Or be taken seriously.
Listen. If you're a bottom!Vox truther, your propaganda sucks. I can give you some better stuff to work with.
(This got very long, so under the cut it goes).
A quick clarification, because these get conflated by both sides of the argument: bottoming and submitting are not the same thing. There are subs who take a purely penetrative role, Doms who only enjoy being penetrated, and a whole spectrum of preferences in between. When I use terms like "submissive" or "in control", I am talking about power exchange, not penetration.
That said, I will grant that Vox is absolutely someone who started his homosexual exploration with the belief that the top is the "masculine" role. Whether he still believes that is another question entirely, and it might also be irrelevant. But I'll get into that more later. For now, we'll assume he still sees them as the same thing.
Let's start with the idea that he's a top because he desperately needs to appear masculine and in control. Because I don't think y'all realize how genderqueer Vox's presentation is. I mean, I have no doubt that he identifies as a man. He takes on a number of roles (businessman, news reporter, entertainer), so he doesn't really have one definitive public persona, but he's always in a suit outside of brief shots during songs. He carries himself with his shoulders back and his head high, save for when he leans down to talk to someone. If I had to describe his gender expression in one word, it would be masculine.
He also wears heels! Which means he goes out in public every single day in what some would consider women's shoes. And it's not just the art style, you could literally kill someone with these. Compare with Alastor, whose heels are drawn the same way from a distance, but clearly different up close.
Vox is canonically someone who carefully curates his public image and that of his colleagues. He also apparently has some degree of interest in exploring his gender presentation, and is comfortable with at least some deviation from traditional masculinity in his appearance.
Not only that, his mannerisms become unusually feminine when he visits the Hazbin Hotel! He's always talking with his hands, but the way he does it is markedly different here, to the point where he would be an effeminate gay stereotype if this was how he always acted.
This behavior is not because he's talking to a woman, or because she runs a business and he's trying to mirror her. He does not act like this with Carmilla. He does not (normally) act like this with Velvette. He definitely doesn't act like this with Katie.
One possible explanation for this is that Vox actually experiences some form of genderfluidity (most likely a stable gender identity with fluid presentation) and this happened to be a more feminine day.
My personal theory is that he finds Charlie attractive (mostly because it would be hilarious if his first thought on seeing her in person was, "Fuck, she's my type.") and since she's known to be with a woman, he assumes that's her preference and unconsciously starts acting more feminine as a result.
I would not say I ship it, but I can see why other people do. And him finding her attractive is definitely canon to me.
So, "He can't bottom because he needs to appear masculine"? Not possible. Whatever he's got going on, this man's presentation is openly genderqueer, and he seems comfortable with it (or oblivious, which would still indicate he's not fussed over how masculine he appears).
What about, "He can't bottom because he has to look like he's the one in control"? It's true that he's concerned about appearances when he's in public. And it's even worse when he's around Alastor. But in private, when it's just him and the Vees?
We don't see much of them enjoying downtime together, but going by Valentino and Velvette's reactions during their "movie night" in S1, it's pretty normal for him to jump around and yell a lot when he's excited. To the point where they probably wish he would chill out sometimes (he also gets. Verbally explicit while they're watching Alastor almost die. His overall behavior is highly inappropriate, and not remotely controlled).
He also has a habit of jumping/standing on furniture (usually his own desk, but not always), which is generally frowned upon by society. There is a strong argument to be made that Vox is autistic, and if so, he's clearly masking hard in everyday life, but comfortable unmasking around his friends. Which includes giving up his veneer of self-control. And socially acceptable behavior.
Anyway, let's get a bit more intimate!
Most of the time Vox dances with the Vees as equals, but he starts this dance in the follow position. And as far as I can determine, he remains in this position throughout the dance, until they trade off right at the end. This is the traditionally feminine role, and evidence that Vox is willing to step outside of his prescribed gender role, at least under certain circumstances.
It's also evidence that he's willing to give up control to someone else, because the lead is the one who guides the dance and makes most of the decisions about what comes next. Which includes ensuring the safety of the follow, especially during more dangerous moves, and not asking for more than their partner is capable of. Safety might not seem like a big deal when getting hurt is a mere annoyance, but I want to emphasize that giving up control in this context isn't just "sure, you can take charge". It is, in a very real sense, surrendering to the whims of someone else and trusting that they'll take care of you.
Also, not being in pain is nice.
This is what I mean when I say it might not matter whether Vox sees topping as the masculine role or not. Even if he does, he's willing to try things! He's willing to explore outside his comfort zone! Maybe it wasn't his idea, but there was still a point in time where he agreed to give the "woman's role" in dancing a shot, stuck with it long enough to learn it, and now he's comfortable assuming that role spontaneously. Which is a foot in the door to consider other things, both in terms of power dynamics and sexual positions.
So, we have established that gender roles are a non-issue, and that Vox is capable of letting someone else take control, at least in some situations. None of this changes the fact that he canonically tops, so let's talk about that.
We do not know that Vox was topping Valentino before he ran off to fight Alastor. "You can't get all up in this and then zip out like that" does not actually tell us anything except that they had their hands all over each other, because "get all up in there" does not mean being physically inside someone. It means being aggressive, passionate, or otherwise intensely physical.
We do know Vox was on top later, though. And that it was only good for one of them.
There are, I think, three possible explanations for Val's apathy here.
Vox is bad at topping.
Vox can top just fine, if he's actually focused on his partner. Which we all know he wasn't.
Valentino doesn't like bottoming.
Reminder that submission and bottoming are different things. Val canonically has more than a few submissive bones in his body, but that doesn't automatically mean he likes being topped.
That said, I am going to concede that he probably does. He and Vox would have been incompatible from the start if they had both wanted to top, and unless Vox managed to work through some of his issues before they met (unlikely), he almost certainly refused to consider any other role when they first got together (or they both just subsist on handjobs and oral. And I think they'd have gotten bored decades ago if that was the case. Sexual compatibility is important, y'all).
Back to the bad sex. With the knowledge that Valentino was into what they were doing before Alastor called, and the implication that they were both getting pretty handsy, I am going to relegate "Vox is bad at topping" to the realm of headcanon. Which doesn't mean he's never selfish, but it's clear that he knows perfectly well how to pay attention to his partner and make it enjoyable for them.
Also, Val has standards. If Vox was bad at topping, he would not be topping (and their sexual relationship probably wouldn't have gotten past a one-night stand).
So, what does all of this tell us? Absolutely nothing beyond that Vox is a good lay! Because "he canonically tops" does not mean he only tops! Or that he always takes the dominant role! Especially when we have established that he's willing to give up control and try stuff out!
Let's talk about Valentino for a minute. Obviously we know he's got a dirty mind, a small army of kinks, and no shame whatsoever. He has no problem expressing his sexual interest in anything, including Vox. But he does seem to conceal his romantic interest, if only from Vox; Velvette seems fully aware of it, so they've probably talked about it. I don't think we know enough about Val to say whether he's normally shy about his feelings or if he just keeps them to himself because he knows Vox is afraid of feelings and doesn't want to scare him off. But I do think we know enough to guess that it's at least partly the latter.
First, they have known each other for decades. There is no way in hell Val has missed how uncomfortable Vox is about his own sexuality, or the way he avoids saying things that would imply too much intimacy. Especially considering Vox would have been worse when they met; he has no known close relationships apart from the Vees, so if he had friends before Valentino, they weren't allowed close enough to form lasting connections.
In fact. Obviously they had to find out Vox's hypnosis doesn't work on Valentino somehow, so he did try it at some point. And I've seen the "why are you sleeping with me, then?" jokes, but I think the reality may have been much more tragic. I think it's possible that, whatever "friends" Vox had before Val, he was using hypnosis to keep them around. After all, his last "friend" betrayed him. And if there are no friends in Hell, you can't trust anyone. It's likely that Val was the first close relationship Vox had after Alastor, because he was the only one who could get close.
Also, when Valentino is complaining about Vox running off in the middle of sex, he starts to say something about, "I thought you liked it when I-". Which could be nothing, or it could imply that he initially thought Vox dipped because he did something wrong. And that could imply that it's happened before. Which, y'know. Give a man internalized homophobia and the ability to teleport, then put him in vulnerable situations with another man? Yeah, Vox has probably gotten too much in his own head and noped out a few times.
On a related note, I would guess that Vox doesn't usually initiate sex. Partly because Valentino is Like That and probably brings it up first most of the time, but also because when we do see Vox try to start something, the utterly shameless porn industry overlord is blushing.
Another possible piece of evidence is the way Vox beats around the bush with "Maybe we could... Fuck around" instead of just saying what he means. Which could just be his idea of seduction. Or it could be that he has trouble expressing desire, whether because of the internalized homophobia, the emotional vulnerability, or both. This point is open for interpretation, though I personally suspect the latter.
Something else that's open for interpretation: Valentino occupies himself during one of Vox's monologues by drawing him tied up, and hides the notepad when Vox walks behind him while he's working on it. As an artist myself, who hates people looking over my shoulder, I just assumed he feels similarly. But I've also seen it suggested that he's shy about Vox seeing what he's doing, given the nature of the drawing. Considering he doesn't look at all embarrassed when Vox does eventually see it, I'm inclined to say it's not shyness, but it could go either way.
Of greater note is that Vox doesn't seem embarrassed, which is an interesting reaction from a man who blushes every time someone suggests any of his behavior is remotely intimate (an amused "You're obsessed with me" from Val is literally all it takes to get him blushing earlier in this same scene). Granted, this is Val's behavior, not his, and he knows full well the kinds of thoughts Valentino has. It only involves him because he's the subject matter. Still, there's a couple things we can conclude from it:
Valentino would like to be the one in control, at least sometimes.
Vox is completely comfortable with someone wanting him tied up.
Given Vox's other assorted issues, I think there's a very low chance that this comfort is a result of talking about it, and a very high chance that it's a result of doing it or thinking about it. Either way, he's into it. And bondage wouldn't even require him to give up control; he could just take charge with his cables if he wanted to, and teleport out if he decided he was done. It would only be an act of submission for him if he wanted it to be, which makes it perfect for easing into the idea of actually giving up control in a sexual context.
And with that, I think canon has been completely picked clean! So, to sum up:
Vox has 99 problems, but his masculinity isn't one of them
His desire to be in control does not outweigh his desire to have fun
He is more likely to be good in bed than not
He probably doesn't initiate much
He is into bondage.
We do not know whether he prefers to top or bottom, whether he prefers to be in control or to submit, whether those preferences are constant or subject to the mood he's in, or whether he would have those same preferences with someone else. Because sexuality and desire are complicated, and he does not have a great relationship with himself! It's very likely that he would be less open to giving up control to someone he hadn't built trust with, or that he would favor different roles, or that he would struggle more with his desires. Because all the information we have about his sex life comes from one long-term relationship with someone who has spent years or decades being patient with his hangups and coaxing him to try new things.
"He's canonically a top."
He's canonically whatever he wants to be, and I love that for him.
Since I'm finally writing my outlaw-themed overlord meeting, I'm taking a crack at analysing and comparing the overlords as 'overlords', i.e. the oppressive powers that be, to fuel up my engine.
I was inspired to pull all these thoughts together by this post on Vox's non-physicality by @sapphorror and this post comparing the portrayal of ValAngel and RadioHusk's shackles by @rat-rambles
TLDR of their main tools of power:
Vox: social conditioning, surveillance, propaganda, opiates of the masses
Carmilla: monopoly, cultural hegemony, divide and conquer
Rosie: groupthink, censorship, puppet regime
Alastor: nepotism, propaganda, shock and awe, manipulation
*Charlie voice* Valentino is the strongest sinner in Hell 😔
Vox: the Media Overlord
I touched on it in another post comparing Vox and Valentino's approaches to mixing business-pleasure, but didn't necessarily view Vox's business practice through the lens of societal power.
What is really fascinating about Vox is that we are never explicitly shown him pulling a chain, or the specifics of his mystic forging material, as we see the other overlords using during 'Hear My Hope'.
[As @phos-lia kindly corrected, we DO see the RadioStatic chain when Alastor breaks it. But we don't see him actually forging it. Nonetheless, the chains are extremely thin, and more resembles digitised binary code than anything imo, which plays into the social conditioning/'coding' point I make later...]
The only chains we actually see being forged from 0 in the show so far are Valentino's and Rosie's, and they seem to match their beams in 'Hear My Hope'
We also see Alastor's chain manifest around Husk's neck, but not from his hands, but it doesn't quite match his beam for the lack of shadows. Something, something, Alastor is a fraud... but also, I can imagine that it's just simply a better visual for impact and literal visibility to have neon green chains without the shadows. This may not turn out to be the actual rule, but if it is, I can see Alastor getting to bend it for aesthetic reasons.
Anyway, seeing it this way, the Care Bear beams in 'Hear My Hope' feel less silly. They aren't just random magic beams; the overlords are using their literal tools of oppression for the greater good. Because it is... power. The overlords usually choose to use it for selfish gain at the expense of others.
Think of it like World War II: the government's weapons are typically used on the people or on other countries. China & the Soviet Union were part of the Allied forces, but it was open season on the civilians of communist nations, e.g. Vietnam, Korea, a few decades after. That's more along the lines of our business as usual. In more recent times, I'm just gonna gesture broadly toward what the news calls the 'Middle East' as an example of our taxpayer money going into suffering and genocide to benefit the elite/OUR overlords.
Gauche as it may sound, I'm coming back to Vox. In the show, his method of control is typically shown through his mind-control swirlies, and this is actually displayed in S1E2 before he even makes his appearance for the first time.
(Unfortunately, all my sites on the seven seas are down, so no pics of this, but cast your mind to the 'spy on the neighbours' ad, with all the people watching in the shop window who scramble to buy it right after. Vox only appears after this, saying "Now THAT'S good television," or whatever.)
But the brainwashed masses are not literally souls on his chain. Likewise, in season 2, we get three examples of his relationships with VoxTek employees, and none seem to involve soul contracts.
In 'Trust Us', there's no indication that Selena/Secretary Bird Girl literally sells her soul. Of course, she has metaphorically 'sold her soul' in the way we would use the phrase in real life to talk about celebrities in the media industry, but at no point is there a visual of her on a chain, the way we see with Angel, Husk and Alastor.
I know I'm talking about S2 here, but I think it's also worth mentioning that in StaticMoth's introductory scene, Vox asks hopefully if Angel Dust quit working for Valentino. Again, from the three examples of owned souls + Niffty, there is absolutely no suggestion that 'quitting' is an option, and it is the basis of Rosie's bursting into 'Don't You Forget'. Valentino sums it up using practically the same words in S1E6 when yanking Angel's chain:
You forget who you're talking to? I own you.
Of course, each contract is a case-by-case basis and has its own conditions, but generally speaking, what is conveyed is that the other overlords don't have fair conditions, which means trapped souls can’t be let off the hook at their own whim.
On top of never seeing Vox's soul chain, Katie Killjoy and Baxter in season 2 provide a glaring contrast between his and Valentino, Alastor and Rosie's M.O.
Killjoy is, essentially, to Vox what Angel is to Valentino: the biggest star, the "bottom bitch" (BB going forward lol). Katie even appears before Vox, and we learn in 'Brighter' that he has handed her the position as the main news anchor on a major news broadcast that began his entire serial killing trajectory. It's a job HE would kill for, and once did. She's also a face of the company, as we see her poster alongside the Vees' in his office. Killjoy is his top reporter, and he says as much. Meanwhile, Vox flippantly kicks Tom Trench, doesn't speak with him, and has him take on the second-banana role of the person he pushed out in his own time as a news reporter.
Comparing Valentino's main scene with Angel Dust (S1E4) to the scene between Vox and Katie (S2E1) is STARK.
The scenario is largely the same: the boss feels BB has fucked up. In Val's case, Angel Dust did NOT invite Charlie, and had no control of her messing up the shoot. In Vox's case, Katie seems to have authority or oversight in the news department, and does have a genuine responsibility about the problematic article getting published.
Angel pleads for mercy, gets his ass whooped, the chain gets yanked, the contract gets whipped out, and Angel has to deal with the 'issue'.
Killjoy, on the other hand, gets a mild voice-raising, gets fresh with Vox, and then faces no consequences, with Vox ultimately addressing the issue of Charlie's good press himself. It's not even a slap on the wrist.
What is very notable about that scene is Katie's portrayal as a sycophant. While not on a soul chain, she seems to be "mentally enslaved" (as the meme goes), i.e. socially conditioned. You may question the idea I'm getting at here, but as participants of fandom, we should all KNOW how crazy fans can get. Things like pop celebrities sic-ing their fanbases on detractors, doxxing people, or actually doing violence. Katie is brainwashed in a classic way. I get it, girl, I had a K-Pop phase.
Baxter is a case that I haven't seen talked about much, but it is honestly amazing. Even while BEING a VoxTek employee, and an important one as a pioneer of pirating, and presumably the science that allowed Vox to fill his tanks with his cyber-demon sharks, Baxter very easily checks into the hotel and switches teams. Despite all the surveillance, Vox doesn't care/notice.
Again, we can compare Vox's approach to Valentino's reaction to Angel checking into the hotel in S1E2. "Do nothing" is what Vox thinks Val should do, because that's what VOX does, as we learn with Baxter. When it comes to the goal of evil overlording, it is the wrong course of action... inaction.
As his Heaven plan goes on, Vox has to emulate Valentino anyway, literally borrowing Angel Dust and smacking him up, the exact same way Val does in S1E4. Of course, he does have his spin on this, which is his use of literal brainwashing.
I think Vox, as an oppressor, largely relies on the classic ideological apparatuses from real life: surveillance state (cameras), propaganda (news) and opiates of the masses/bread and circuses (TV). In his proposition to Alastor, he admits his power is inferior, but touts himself as bringing influence to the table. This also aligns with him bizarrely becoming 'the strongest sinner in Hell' based on ratings, when we've otherwise been suggested that power comes from natural-born rank (e.g. angels) or souls owned (Alastor's backstory + gambling with Husk for souls).
To further explain my thought here, the overlords are normal sinners, not a separate species, which suggests to me that anyone can make soul-binding deals, and it is a matter of quantity/quality (again, Alastor binge-eating overlords the moment he stepped off the Hell-plane lol) that determines whether one is a major overlord, who gets a seat at the table. Vox also says in the flashback scene that overlords are popping up every day in his era, but it doesn't seem to be the case in the present day. I do believe this is because Alastor isn't eating overlords anymore, but that's just my current interpretation.
I still find how this made him the "strongest" (rather than "most powerful", say) sinner in Hell very perplexing. It makes sense symbolically, as I've outlined, but when we come back to the actual world of the show, it's very out of the blue. Oh well.
Valentino: the Film Overlord + King of the Sex Ring
I'm going to sound like a power-scaler (or... Alastor lol) talking about Val.
Essentially, my interpretation/HC is that he actually is, throughout both seasons, more powerful than Vox. And this isn't because he's more violent or anything; in fact, I think Val is actually quite restrained for the majority of the time that we see him, and that is because it serves his emotional and capitalistic needs... Scary, I know, but hear me out.
To start, I want to talk about his physiology. Even without overlord status, Valentino has plenty of natural advantages.
For starters, he can fly, and due to his size, his wings are big enough to put out a fucking studio on fire... What the fuck. Talk about the butterfly effect.
If you're unfamiliar, 'the butterfly effect' is a theory that posits that one small, seemingly insignificant change can actually cause a major (e.g. catastrophic) change later down the line, such as the flap of a butterfly's wings.
As was displayed in 'Hear My Hope', and I will continually discuss with the overlords, this ability to influence something much bigger than oneself can be used for revolutionary levels of good or evil. And here we see Val using it to save his production, preventing the fire from spreading and potentially burning the entire Tower down.
Putting out the fire is done for his own benefit, though (he has pornos to push out), even if lives were saved in the process. Just as easily, Valentino could use this trait to selflessly save innocents from a fire hazard. But, as of now, he would NEVER do something like that.
This is part of what makes the overlords/those who abuse their power so insidious. Billionaires (and trillionaires... yay 😃) could do a lot of good for the world with their money, but instead choose to use it to perpetuate inequality to no end.
Back to Val, he has his moth pheromones, which, until given evidence otherwise, I understand as part of his innate demon form. Pentious also had a weak form of hypnosis, despite not being an overlord. Likewise, Cherri seems to have a pocket dimension and some level of magical control over her bombs.
Of course, potency is another question, and I'm imagining that being an overlord/owning souls gives stat boosts all around. Regardless, he still came to Hell with a "slick/smooth tongue" (suaveness) as a mode of influence. That aligns with the seductive aspect of his personality.
Now, here is where I'm gonna serve a hot take on the brainwash power-scaling.
Valentino is explicitly immune to Vox's hypnotic-eye-induced brainwashing... Sorry, this is genuinely a crazy sentence to type in the context of relating the characters' powers back to real-life systems of power – VALENTINO IS IMMUNE TO BRAINWASHING. I'm not! You're not! This is fucking CRAZY.
And it's not limited to a magical ability: despite Vox downplaying it and, honestly, even for the audience, the nature of his "collective" being extremely vague, Valentino sees through it and calls a spade a spade – a cult a cult.
Neither you or I can actually say, while sticking to the text, what evidence there is that Vox did to suggest that he had an authoritarian hold on his followers, and what or whether he was actually using that power for anything. What we're shown is that he serial-killed his career opponents to become a TV producer, and then he had a group of people give him their ideas for TV shows. That's certainly cruel and unusual, but it's not a cult. Likewise, as cult-ish as the Heaven takeover antics get, we get no indication of what Vox actually plans to do with his followers. A fanbase is not a cult, an army is not a cult – the oppressive element from leader to followers is the part that makes it a cult.
Typically, it is non-magical mind-control that facilitates the ongoing and, in the cases of major cults, GENERATIONAL leader-follower oppressive dynamic.
...And Valentino is immune to Vox's mind-control, both magical and non-magical. Not only does he call out Vox's cult tactics – he is critical of the warped sense of reality Vox is trying to knock into the Vees' (and the Pentagram's) heads. There is no logic to the idea that sinners can just stroll into Heaven, because there's a literal creator God making these choices, and every sinner in Hazbin should be fully aware of this because they died and ended up in literal Hell from the fucking bible.
This is a lot like the religious 'rapture' panic that happens, where masses of people are convinced they will all ascend on some specific date a leader has conjured up through a variety of logical fallacies and then spreading the word as hotly as possible. This causes the believers to live their lives, genuinely, as if there will not be another day after that. So, they are lulled into doing risky, short-sighted things, which often can benefit the leader.
As a hypothetical example: "Donate all your money to the church, so when we good children of God are gone, the sinners will have the facilities to find the righteous path... oh it didn't happen? Well, look how strong your faith in God was, and what a good samaritan you are for giving all your money to me– I MEAN the church. You don't need it back; God will reward you if you have patience and faith..."
The rapture is just one commonly used setup, but in general, we can understand these events as mass brainwashing. And this is what Vox's power is/represents. Valentino is both physically immune and fully aware of cult tactics.
While Velvette is completely on board with Vox's plan throughout the season, even trying to console Valentino's upset about being mistreated by Vox with the idea of them eventually '[ruling] all of creation', I argue that Valentino is never presented as being a believer. He's just along for the ride until it interferes with his business, and it's Vox's disruptive 'use' of Angel Dust that is the moment when his line is crossed... because that's Val's money-maker!
At this point, Val glasses Vox in the face, and in the following episode he's agonising in 'When I Think About The Future' about how he wants to dip because of the neglect (RadioStatic) and the disrespect ("he's being rude").
Vox mocks Valentino for lacking vision, but Val is... woke. He ironically has poor eyesight, but, at least when it comes to Vox, if nothing else, he sees things for what they are. This plays into his character being an artist and on the observing side of the camera lens as a director.
Speaking about Val as a director moves me on to his status as the Film Overlord. I included the thing about sex trafficking in the subtitle for clarity, but given rampant abuse and exploitation behind the scenes in Hollywood, I see these as manifestations of the same thing. The only difference is that pimps are less opaque with their exploitation than the film industry.
I know the fanon is that both Vox and Valentino are immune to each other's mind-touching influence (hypnosis vs pheromones), and for the sake of integrity, I will say that this is not an unfounded interpretation/HC; Vox is never explicitly shown to be affected by Val's pheromones, and the 'Love Potion in a can' poster shows him being unsure of the effects.
I believe the bow on this interpretation is that people like to think of StaticMoth as a star-crossed lovers kind of thing, where they are immune to only each other, and blah, blah. And given this is a darling ship of the creators', this is entirely possible, such as Valentino's white markings on his wings matching Vox's gills/vents.
That being said, my argument is that the reason we aren't shown the pheromones working on Vox is that Vox is already attracted to Valentino, so it makes no difference to his behaviour.
The Love Potion poster is a different matter because it is not locked onto Valentino, so either it is because Valentino's pheromones do not work, Vox is not actually consuming the potion, or something else related to Velvette. So again, as per the first possibility, I am not saying that the interpretation of Vox having immunity to the slick tongue is far-fetched.
I have my own theories about this, but instead, especially since we haven't actually seen Love Potion getting consumed on-screen, I want to go back to the portrayals of Valentino's pheromones in particular.
They have no effect on Charlie (if they work through skin), and the jury is out on whether they work on Alastor. The other character who we know has been in contact with the pheromones is Angel Dust, and the effect on him is questionable; we, the audience, are called to associate Val's literal 'poison' with Angel's cycle of suffering through the song, but we are never actually shown Val spurring on Angel's desire with his pheromones.
Quite simply, we are never shown someone who is explicitly unattracted to Valentino acting outside of that due to his pheromones. Even if we can say Alastor and Angel are shown to be affected (they are), the effect is never conveyed as being that they want to fuck Valentino.
In 'Poison', when Val blows smoke in Angel's face, Angel is shown to be near blacking out, and to have reached his limit with his body being exploited. Alastor's pupils constrict when encountering Val's smoke, denoting agitation, but... does he want to fuck Val in those moments? We don't know.
When Valentino is recruiting, he relies on promises of power and status – not forcing people by using his pheromones. He tells Charlie he could make her richer than her father; he tells the not-Velvette in S1E6 at 'Consent' that he can make her a star; he reassures Niffty that she could have popularity in niche circles if she worked under him; he promises the starfish lady that she will take priority over the CEO during the meeting (lol...); 'Trust Us' displays how the Vees collectively promise stardom in exchange for being exploited by the trio.
...And I feel that this can be understood as his pheromones and his persuasiveness being, effectively, one and the same thing; Valentino is slick-tongued, literally and figuratively. In essence, it is seduction and lovebombing.
So it's my interpretation that Vox is not immune to this tool of Valentino's. I believe his being a fellow overlord (see: oppressor) means that charms, physical and conversational, don't impact him as much or as easily, because he is taking tricks out of the same book, but he... is attracted to Valentino. I don't think Vox is immune to that seduction. And it's a commonality with Alastor that I'll talk about in his section that I think reveals Vox has a weakness to a particular personality type.
Furthermore, on the powerscaling, Valentino says that he employs "every down-on-their-luck sinner this side of the Pentagram" [paraphrased]. While, of course, it is an exaggeration, Val is also shown to be the most eager to hire out of the three Vees. He even has the audacity to try and get royalty on his soul chain... he doesn't give a shit.
Meanwhile, Vox is shown to give people, such as Baxter and Pentious, a chance, but not actually be after their souls, and is happy to let them off the hook. He even hopes Valentino will do the same for Angel Dust (for his own personal preference lmfao). In 'Trust Us', we know why Valentino wants Selena to bare it all on a personal and enterprising level, but Vox is not the sleaze guy. Still, he is happy and participates in running Selena's career into the ground for a quick buck, and sends her off, as opposed to milking her endlessly, as it seems Valentino does with Angel.
Velvette's contract-obtaining process is yet to be seen, but what is certain is that both she and Vox are far less mindful (/neutral) about their employees than Valentino is. In the Vees' introductory scene, Valentino has stopped by Velvette's floor to run amok... because those are not his workers; he needs his whores to stand on the corner and say their stupid lines. Velvette, on the other hand, only cares about her "best" model, and Vox offers up his lowest earners without a second thought. Additionally, the entire StaticMoth establishing scene revolves around an argument of Vox believing Valentino should not be so personally invested in his workers – he thinks the leash is too short.
This takes me back to Vox never actually yanking a soul chain at all; he, instead, relies on "mind-forged manacles" (s/o GCSE English). But, of course, if he is choosing not to make soul deals, not monitoring closely enough, and not adequately doling out punishment, his oppressive influence dissipates almost entirely.
When public opinion turns on him in the S2 finale, his 'strength' is shown to be a house of cards. Nobody has to even touch him for him to lose power. And Valentino is the one to get his hands dirty and rip Vox's head off.
Further on this short-leash, dirty-hands business – Valentino's fighting style is primarily fist-to-fist and with guns. He does not rely on mystical overlord magic, but rather on his natural abilities, ones that a regular human could have. And again, he demonstrates his power in close-quarters, not from a distance, and certainly not so subtly that people forget that he has it. Valentino's power is felt so viscerally that he is a spectre, and the literal example of "the man" i.e. an oppressor in the judging eyes of Heaven (S1E6).
Valentino's overlording is even more insidious than Vox's because he doesn't need to use any magic or technology, nor is it tied to high status or public opinion. His method of oppression is an art, a natural skill he has honed and mastered, which stays within him wherever he goes, no matter where he is in the hierarchy, rather than a toolbox of techniques relying on external apparatus/institutions. Valentino is... an abuser.
Carmilla Carmine: the Weapons Dealer
This woman gets let off the hook so fucking easily, but she is an OVERLORD. I'm not planning this as I write this, so I don't know how long this section will be, but her use of power can probably be summed up with her being the mf that made the atom bomb (I haven't and am not gonna look it up, I don't care about Carmilla enough sorry, very open to a teaching moment) and our governments arming opposing sides in conflicts in foreign nations, enabling the deaths and suffering that come with conflict, because they profit.
Disclaimer that I am largely a Carmilla-anti, so I'm not going to rewatch her scenes or anything, this is just my memory, so feel free to correct and add anything.
Velvette is portrayed as being antagonistic during 'Respectless', because she's associated with the protag's opps. Just what it is.
And why are YOU avoiding war?
That's what the guns you sell are for.
The framing of the answer to this is largely why I cannot stomach Carmilla. While the show is not shy about showing the other overlords to be oppressors, going as far to get pretty racial with RadioHusk's chain-yank moment (also the 'Husker' = corn husker thing... If you want to argue that there are 0 racial undertones, you aren't ready for this whole conversation about structures of power, I fear), even though Alastor is otherwise portrayed as pretty chill... Carmilla gets off completely scot-free for MASS PRODUCING WEAPONS OF PERMA-DEATH, the likes of which sinners are otherwise unfamiliar with, to a world in which "turf wars" are an established part of the culture.
In the past, what were essentially land disputes in the Pentagram are now, thanks to Carmilla, genuinely devastating. Found families are losing members, and as per her own concerns, actual families are torn apart by the violence. Perma-death. This is not a medical, assisted-death/euthanasia type of situation, in which the intentions are largely good, perhaps sinners are tired of living in Hell, and at worst it is a slippery slope. No, Carmilla is specifically an arms dealer, and profiting on making established turf wars worse, letting sinners suffer while she gets rich, and they become reliant on her product for safety. Divide and conquer.
This is literally what European colonisers in Africa and the Americas. They armed the indigenous tribes to benefit from the expansionist conflict that is endemic to all human populations, all the while, yanno, doing slavery and genocide. Lovely.
And, of course, it's fine when it's everyone else perma-dying, but Carmilla draws the line against standing up to genocide because she's worried that something that involves all of Hell might get her own daughters in the crossfire... That is really the kind of thing I want to hear a whiny ballad about during my first impressions of the character 😃😃😃!
This isn't relevant, but I really cannot stand it when a narrative expects me to sympathise with a character automatically by using the shortcut of sad music, gesturing to loaded concepts, etc., and expects me to side with the person on the screen... That is literally propaganda 😭😭.
In S2, she is STILL against standing up to genocide, but builds the perma-death nuke as she feels it will protect her family. She has no empathy for the fellow human families in Heaven, of course.
She uses the veil of diplomacy, as Velvette calls out, as another form of power. Carmilla creates a social hierarchy among the overlords to suit her, which she uses to shield herself from them going against her. This is an extension of her weapon manufacturing; essentially, she puts out a resource and lords over it to make it seem like, if someone displeases her, she has the power to cut off the resource supply and put anyone into a precarious situation where they are without protection (angelic weapons). Carmilla summons the other overlords on her terms (resource) and ends the meeting to flex that her will is a priority (resource embargo). She has a monopoly on angelic weapons and tries to manufacture cultural hegemony in order to decide what is respectable, and then have a monopoly on respectability.
(Trying not to get too racial today, but I do not think it should be lost on us that Carmilla demands, essentially, "respectability politics" from a black female character, and the only one that is part of the main cast.)
Rosie: the President of Cannibal Town
Before we even get onto her situation with Alastor, let's talk about the fact that Rosie established an ethnostate.
That is such a fucking ridiculous and hilarious sentence, but I think it really ought to be addressed if we're talking about how the overlords use their power. While other characters are certainly shown to have allegiances with demons of similar types to them (e.g. Vox has Ethan & Baxter, Valentino has Angel & the bug squad from S2E6, Zeezi has Man Meat & her Club Kaiju posse, etc.), none of the districts in the Pentagram is an ethnostate except Rosie's Cannibal Town.
This also clearly isn't a birds-of-a-feather thing of where cannibals = cannibal demons, because Alastor is a cannibal... but he's not a cannibal. For a moment, I was going to entertain the idea that cannibals are an ostracised people because... they eat people, and that's not cool with the people that they want to eat, but sinners are generally murderous. It's not like those who engage in turf wars are ghettoed to the Doomsday District, for example. And again, cannibalism does not result in a Rosie-kin demon form, so if it is that cannibals live in Cannibal Town as a community, it shouldn't... look like that.
I can't imagine in-verse that she has genuinely made it an ethnostate, in terms of witch-hunting and racialising non-cannibal-demons and whatever; I'm not trying to say that. But I do think the general visual and her position as 'leader' suggest Rosie focuses on a controlled social structure, similar to Carmilla.
This group sticks together, so in order to convince any of them, you need to convince all of them
Such a thing is simply not possible in a place that embraces diversity of thought. This is groupthink.
Homogeneity seems to be a key facet of her power, and we see this in how the cannibals are treated as an army, all with the same views when Charlie comes to mobilise them.
Rosie and Alastor don't like Susan because she sticks out from the rest, disrupts the homogeneity, and poses as an opposition to Rosie's control. Susan has power because she is a critical thinker. And I'm sure you are seeing the echoes in what I mentioned in my Vox and Valentino sections here. Susan is the only one in the show, but what she illustrates is how homogeneity requires suppression, i.e. censorship. As internet users, I'm sure we're all quite familiar.
This is actually not that far off from how she treats Alastor. Which is especially chewy when we consider that as the Radio Demon, his power is his voice, and Rosie's thing seems to be censorship. She takes Alastor off the air and forces him into obscurity for the seven years of exterminations until Charlie starts up the hotel. This is something that Alastor directly addresses in 'Don't You Forget'... which is a song that is basically three minutes of Rosie theatrically telling Alastor to shut the fuck up about his injuries, his diminished rank, and not liking his charge.
And this could tie into the fact that Alastor ran from Rosie's suppression straight to offering himself as part of the 'propaganda parade'. The Vees, being mass media overlords, profit from giving lip service to diversity; their portfolios are genuinely diverse, and most notably, Vox's whole thing is that he has nothing to say but makes himself the platform/the voice for the ideas of others. Alastor is in Vox's ear for the entirety of the second half of the season, playing mind games and controlling him like a puppet on strings. Vox, in a way, does give Alastor a platform. This is the total opposite to Rosie's homogeneity and censorship.
Rosie's comparisons of Alastor to an animal in 'Don't You Forget' are quite particular: she's specifically comparing him to a "pet" that does tricks, and a deer in a menagerie – these are all specifically for show. She is not viewing Alastor as a beloved lesser companion, or even an attack dog: he is an extension of her.
The moves you make are mine and mine alone
This also extends to how she made the deal with him in the first place, of course, with Rosie making Alastor reliant on her for power, or at least, she made him believe as much (...I have thoughts and interpretations and whatnot). This is why she refuses to help him out, because what she is exploiting in Alastor is not his unique identity (as Vox does, shown by how he wears the suits of his victims in 'Brighter' once he stole their roles) – Rosie is benefiting from him as a vessel.
Think of something like the USA and Taiwan or Hong Kong. They are on their side to the extent that it empowers them in their opposition to China, but when push comes to shove, if it does not benefit the States' goals, they do not give a shit about their independence and do not try to meaningfully help them achieve that. (I may have fucked up the particulars here because I'm not into geopolitics, but this is my general understanding, more as an example than anything.)
So Rosie's chain on Alastor manifests as a leash/a rope that is guiding him where she wants him to go. The restriction is noticeable only when the oppressed goes in the wrong direction, whereas Val and Al's shackles limit mobility holistically. And Vox codes the behaviour first, then lets the programme execute without actively enforcing his will himself.
This is kind of why my running HC is that Rosie is not a sinner, and actually cannot make deals with sinners, but rather is a demon who makes deals with humans on Earth. It's not suggested at any point that sinners are really meant to be making contact with Earth, kind of backed up by the fact that Baxter's pirating is a feat. Meanwhile, in Helluva Boss, the premise revolves around the imps going to Earth, and other Hell-born species (hellhounds, succubi, goetia) are also shown to have human disguises. Pentious' Heaven peril and Emily's adamance that he cannot go to Hell also suggest that human souls cannot move freely through the realms.
If you entertain my HC, this is Rosie using Alastor as a puppet for her machinations because she needs to use his humanity to maintain influence over the sinners, especially with the other overlords around.
Regardless of whether you like my HC, though, it is undeniable that she is using Alastor as a puppet instead of doing things herself for whatever reason.
Alastor: the Radio Demon
(I'm referring to Alastor getting souls on his chain as 'eating' them, because a. he's a cannibal, b. we don't... see where all these overlords are, and c. I think it's cute.)
Briefly taking us back to the Cannibal Town adventures, as he does in 'Hear My Hope', Alastor shows that he is able to use his powers for revolutionary good when he lends Charlie his staff/microphone... and his helpful "eating angels" ad-lib is what actually gets the cannibals to come around. While Val could have a revolutionary vision, Alastor shows how he could be a revolutionary voice.
And, of course, our beautiful boys are neither of these things.
Alastor, shouldn't you help her?
Should I? Perhaps. Will I? No. Do I enjoy being difficult? Most definitely.
To begin with, Alastor's power comes from nepotism. We talk about him pre-ordering his powers and being a fraud, and this is largely the same conversation we have about nepo-babies, who often have privileges and power prepped for them before they are even conceived.
Besides his initial boost and his kaiju form (which seems to be locked to the staff/Rosie powers), how exactly Alastor ate so many overlord souls back in the day, and what he did with them, is a mystery. Despite not knowing the specifics of how he obtained each soul, we can describe his overall approach of binge-eating the overlords and broadcasting their screams as a shock-and-awe tactic.
Effectively, this is him making use of propaganda to control minds, as Vox does through his capture of Alastor, shortly thereafter squaring up to Lucifer and Sera in 'Vox Populi/DEI', publicly broadcasts his scary self to the angels and blasts off the pearly gates. Both Vox and Alastor were flexing, scrambling for a spectacle to spread the image of themselves as warships on the horizon.
Beyond bad blood, this is also likely what pushed Alastor to jump on 'Stayed Gone' – reputation is one of his main tools of power, especially in this post-baby-demon era, where he doesn't seem to be gorging on overlords anymore. And you can see why he complains to Rosie about his name "inspiring a lot less fear" due to her censorship of his literal broadcast.
I see a lot of people referring to Alastor as being a narcissist, and I'll admit, I'm not well-read on the topic, so maybe there's something I'm not seeing, but I interpret his outward arrogance and desire to keep his notorious status as traits he is wholly self-aware of, but also not necessarily sincere about. Alastor knows he needs a reputation so he can have power.
He personally doesn't seem to care about people's opinions of him, nor does he seem to feel very entitled. Look at how he chooses to live! In life, he moved from the Quarter to a dingy shack filled with corpses, and in the show, he seems quite happy to take a rent-free room at a hotel he thinks is shitty ("it's worth the price" lmfao), as well as doing all manner of sidequests given to him like making a commercial (why did they even ask Alastor to do that lol?), dealing with Pentious' eggs... bro canonically pulled Niffty out of a toilet. He also gets dressed up before he goes to Rosie, as if he feels he cannot just ask her to help him without performing for her in some way. At no point does any of this seem to bother him. In fact, Alastor prefers not to be seen unless he has an agenda – on an average Tuesday, he casually peaces out into the shadows and gets all static-y on camera.
What I'm saying is that I don't think he personally cares about his social standing, but for his goals as a demon, he is making a conscious effort to promote himself as scary and not someone to fuck around with. As I already said, this is a mind-game/mind-control type tactic of propaganda that he and Vox both use, and part of why I believe Vox actually wasn't as powerful as he framed himself to be.
Because they both use this same tactic, I'm also inclined to believe that Alastor's constant criticisms about Vox not actually contributing are not hollow. As with Valentino, it's a matter of game, see game.
Speaking of Valentino again, it was the post comparing their shackles that inspired me to write all this up.
ValAngel's chain is short and taut. Angel doesn't even need to really do anything for it to get yanked, and Angel is acutely aware of Valentino's influence/power even when he isn't present, as shown by Val's smoke wisping around his neck through the phone in S1E2 (I think it's this ep), and his panic at the sight of Vox and Velvette in S2E3, due to their association with Val, more than any general misgivings. Angel is so aware of the shackle that he turns himself into V Tower, afraid that Valentino will pull it again and force him to hurt his loved ones. Val doesn't even need to say anything for Angel to come to this conclusion.
RadioHusk's chain, on the other hand, is incredibly long, and even when Alastor tries to wind it up, there is absolutely no way Alastor could yank it and get Husk to move the way Val does Angel. Husk is backing up while Alastor is approaching and trying to reel him in. Instead, Alastor is reliant on scaring him, going back to the reputation/propaganda thing from earlier. Alastor is clutching at straws to get Husk to shut up about his nepotism. This, of course, is exemplary behaviour of someone trying to mask their societal privilege as it pertains to their success.
The entire conflict that moves Alastor to pull on the chain the one and only time is due to getting clocked in earshot of Lucifer, his opponent, and Charlie, his target. The doubt is antithetical to his notorious reputation as an overlord. Furthermore, the fact that Husk even feels comfortable challenging Alastor is a total contrast to the ValAngel dynamic.
Alastor's shackles are extremely long and slack, to the point that, while Husk feels limited, he completely forgets punishment is a possibility. Alastor is more like Vox in this way, also seen in how he just abandons Husk and Niffty at the hotel when he fucks off to V Tower, in addition to him letting Husk and Niffty keep their overlord powers, despite owning their souls.
But Al is more like Val in the sense that he actively enforces his dominance. It just so happens that Alastor usually doesn't feel the need to enforce his dominance on his souls, because he's not a capitalist; he is not exploiting people for a living, and so it's not an everyday type thing.
Also, on the deals he makes during the show with Charlie and Vox in addition to his tendency to withhold information, manipulation is clearly a big hitter in his wheelhouse. As I was saying earlier, Valentino's seduction is essentially the same thing, just in a sexier flavour. I would say both of them are tempters, and this is what I was getting at in saying Vox has a 'type'.
Vox and Velvette's Views on Redemption, Morality and Domestic Abuse in 'Hazbin Hotel: Behind Closed Doors' & Their Critique of Angel Dust
Episode 3 shows Vox definitely has bone to pick with Angel Dust on a personal level beyond jealousy. He sarcastically snarks that Angel is "such a pleasant person to be around"... which, like... what? Why would he insinuate he's annoying personality-wise if he only really views him as Val's side piece?
And Angel has absolutely 0 strong opinions about Vox other than that he's a sadist and is connected to Valentino. He also feels comfortable spitting on his face and walking out in the scene where Vox jumps him. So...??? They've clearly not had an actual inciting negative interaction in the flesh.
Velvette seems to also be aware of the one-sided beef, considering she's not at all surprised and casually wrangles Vox to keep his head in the game when he starts revving up to go in on Angel.
Someone said that Vox and Velvette probably both have a problem with Angel Dust because they are dealing with Valentino's EXTREME freak-outs about him. And yk, they're problematic, so they would victim-blame rather than empathise with Angel. But I don't think it's just that either.
During 'Speedrun to Redemption', when Charlie asks "isn't he sweet?"... Vox and Velvette finally chime in. They're not even singing, they just genuinely are called to answer her. And they very half-heartedly go "...whatever you say,"; they're not paying attention. and are trying to kick back and enjoy themselves. They brought VoxTek brand loungers, swimsuits, and all (despite there not being a pool) 💀
Their contribution is pretty unnecessary, right? Could this not just have been a silent, visual moment...? Well, no, because after this, they start actively heckling.
Being invited to judge Angel's character puts a coin in them.
Suddenly, they're paying real attention, and Vox is delighted to give his two pence.
He jumps in to say the concept of Angel giving a dime to the homeless is ridiculous. A DIME. Vox and Velvette are cracking up at the idea of Angel Dust giving a homeless man a DIME. Not even a dollar. A. SINGLE. DIME!!!!
And then Vox chimes in again to reassert that Angel Dust is a shitty person who will never get to Heaven. That's not directed at Angel... it's an aside that not even Charlie responds to. I really think that he feels a type of way. This vim for Angel's immorality goes far beyond romantic rivalry.
Not to mention that romantic rivalry is absolutely not suggested at all, and can only really be extrapolated from Vox's slut-shaming later in the season.
But I think that his slut-shaming actually explains this "dime" comment. He does not respect sex work and, despite being the greediest motherfucker this side of the Pentagram, views it as bottom-of-the-barrel level money-grubbing.
Vox is not shown to be a promiscuous person at any point, outright proclaiming that emotional catharsis is better than sex for him. I believe that he would view sex work as a thing that he's happy to profit from, but sees the commodification of intimacy as morally bankrupt. He is someone who would lay his life down for a genuine connection, which gets very out of control and ends up being the world-ending threat that season 2 culminates in... so, while he'll sell anything for a check, he doesn't personally think it's something that should have a price tag. Love is worth a life, not currency.
(And I think this may also spill over into the fact that he's the least involved with Love Potion, and in his one endorsement of it, he is questioning whether it works, looking uncomfortable to be drinking it, and just generally making it look like a shit product...)
Charlie also infamously slut-shames Angel in this song, telling him to "dress more modestly" to get into Heaven.
As it happens, all three of Vox, Charlie and Velvette are slut-shamers, with Velvette being the one to criticise the Vees' victim in 'Trust Us' for going nude (at her male partners' pressuring 🥴). As aforementioned, she is a victim blamer, and this must include internalised victim-blaming, since she herself goes naked in her very beautiful martini Love Potion poster.
So they agree with Charlie on that... And in general, StaticDoll never actually question her ideas of what makes someone redeemable. Vox even aligns with her on doing the food drive thing to come across as a 'do-gooder' a couple of episodes before this. Additionally, while his view is distorted by power lust, he seems to agree with Charlie on Lilith's general idea that sinners (namely, himself lmfao) have an unfair shake.
But they surely find Charlie's approach juvenile and cringe right? The Western roleplay is really taking the...
Ah, nope – not cringe, sorry! Velvette and Vox are super down and got all dressed up so they could play along! Vox even reprises his cowboy hat later in the season and puts on an accent (like Charlie) when he goes to see Prick and Hatchet. And Velvette watches Val's outlaw pornos, and seemingly enjoys them enough to have them on the brain at Charlie's most generic of premises.
Other than the holding hands and crying in a circle, the only time Vox and Velvette are shown to genuinely disagree with Charlie's ideas about what makes a 'good' person is when she plans to fake the self-sacrifice element, and they go out of their way to undermine her.
It comes off as purely cruel that Vox would demand Angel take an angelic spear to the chest to prove his worth... umm, but Vox, unfazed when it's him, throws himself in front of the angelic spear the millisecond it's pointed at Velvette. I had to hit 0.5x speed to catch the frame. Read it and weep, I'm afraid.
Even Charlie is surprised by this. I think she notices here that Vox has the same redeemable quality that Pentious had that she's been so desperately trying to promote in others. Self-sacrifice is something that can't be acted out or faked, no matter how much Charlie tries.
But the Vees are intense: they don't fear violence, they don't fear death. And the first thing we learn about Vox is that he self-sacrifices for Velvette on a regular basis. It's simply a reflex for him to do this.
We see that Vox and Velvette are pretty ride or die for each other throughout season 2, and on top of catching strays from Valentino on account of Angel's 'misbehaviour', they may seriously be disgusted with his (past) lack of loyalty to the people close to him – his father.
StaticDoll look pretty peeved by Charlie's "if only there was a big strong man to save the damsel"... In their house, it's a little doll and the smaller guy saving each other FROM the "big strong man"... the one who goes by 'daddy'.
And Vox doesn't actually know why Angel killed his dad, but he assumes it's because he was abused by him, just like we do.
It makes no sense for Vox to be acting like "murderer" is some zinger, when his first crush was a serial cannibal, and he himself was a serial killer, and there's actually a whole town of cannibals in particular. It wouldn't really make sense for Angel, or anyone not fresh to Hell, to be bothered either.
The topic here isn't just murder; it's that it was patricide, the killing of a family member.
Charlie cuts Vox off at that point, but I think Vox is about to berate Angel for murdering his domestic abuser specifically... because Vox and Velvette stick it out with Valentino, and he's a ten-foot devil, so why shouldn't Angel have spared his blood father?
This line says more about their view and experience with domestic abuse than it does about Angel's backstory, which may not contain this element at all. In fact, it actually gives me hope that Angel will not just be Moxxie 2.0. We see that he is particularly afraid of betraying and hurting his loves to the point of turning himself in to the Tower at the end of season 2. I think a true betrayal may be a genuine theme in his story... And we have already seen that his sister is in Heaven... But we'll see. Have hope that it's not lame, people.
But back to Vox's desire to start preaching about how standing up to your abusive family members is betrayal:
Vox and Velvette would never scorn 'daddy' Valentino. They believe in unconditional loyalty/trust and view physical presence as evidence of that, rather than it being measured by physical safety and emotional security. They think that it is a moral failing to be a 'weak' person who cannot tank a hit, emotional or physical. When Valentino is trying to give himself a pep talk into not being so hurt by Vox's single-minded actions that he's considering abandoning ship, Velvette swoops in to tell him that it's absolutely not an option, that he should stop feeling his hurt, and channel it into resentful anger if he really can't manage (as she does), because he needs to stick it out, and just hope that the storm will eventually pass. That's what she always does with Valentino.
StaticDoll see standing up for yourself through physical retaliation or retreat as a betrayal and cruelty to a beloved.
Again, Angel and the audience are led to view the wire cutting as purely sadistic, but I think Velvette and Vox didn't just want to see Angel die. They specifically wanted to see him die by sacrificing himself for someone he cares about/that cares for him. They know that there's something between HuskerDust based on how fiercely he roots for Angel, despite their bullying.
If Angel died and they got evidence that he was redeemed by self-sacrifice, like Pentious, StaticDoll would have validation for their enduring of Val's abuse, and Vox's willingness to die for his loves. They would find that those are genuinely redeemable traits that they already possess.
In that case, it would only take an incident for them to reach Heaven, which they want, both for power/infiltration reasons, but also to have their personal codes of ethics validated. And as I showed in this photo post, the Vees' idea of pleasure is entirely aligned with Heaven's (through Emily's perspective). StaticDoll also especially align with Heaven through their holograms and sci-fi leanings.
Unlike Pentious, Angel or even Alastor, we have so many clues that Vox and Velvette would sincerely enjoy life in Heaven. Not to mention, of course, that their overarching goal is to "get up there".
So when the angel jumps in to save Angel Dust, and prevents them from getting an answer on whether they are redeemable, and also denying them the catharsis of watching the unwitting bane of their existence, who is also, by their standards, genuinely evil, bite the (Angel) dust... They're genuinely disappointed.
And when Charlie pipes up about how she won't allow her friends to be pushed around, on top of not taking seriously the trait he considers the pinnacle of morality – self-sacrifice – Vox flips from lowkey being on Charlie's side, letting her take a crack at actually proving redemption is possible (although he has 0 faith in Angel), to thinking she's full of shit. Suddenly, she's bullshitting about not letting her friends get bullied when she selfishly invited wolves to Angel's door just to improve her public image.
But Vox is someone who is generally shown to be in for a penny, in for a pound (e.g. Alastor), and willing to give people a chance (e.g. Pentious, Baxter). He gives Charlie one last attempt, on a personal tip, to prove that she is genuine about the redemption and morality thing.
He tests her with a single question: Does she think he can be redeemed?
If she says no, that's all the evidence he needs to write her off as having no morals, not just for propaganda but from the bottom of his heart. Because, in his mind, he does have redeeming qualities. He knows very well the lengths he's willing to go through for his loved ones. That's a good thing, he'd say (though his masochistic devotion spirals out of control into being destructive by the end of the season).
But Charlie says she thinks anyone can be redeemed.
She gives no caveats or winding list of conditions. Maybe the ease with which she says this comes from the fact that she noticed how Vox shielded Velvette from Vaggi's spear.
This is not what StaticDoll were expecting: when they asked the questions they prepared for the interview, Velvette pressed her on what they understood to be the Morningstar standpoint. Based on Charlie's desire to change/redeem, her personal aversion to sinners (she is Hell-born, her father is an angel, her girlfriend is an angel) and Lucifer's neglect of Hell, StaticDoll perceive the hotel's message as being that sinners need to be fundamentally different people to be worthy of paradise. And that can't be right, because they wouldn't change much about each other, and we have known since 'Once We Get Up There', they feel entitled to life in the clouds.
...And Charlie, not knowing it, confirms that she agrees with them. She passed Vox's test, and he even praises her, saying he sees why Alastor likes her.
It's interesting that he thinks of Alastor in that moment. We don't know it yet, but in the next few episodes, it's revealed that Vox was cutthroat and heartless before death, yet was made quite the softy in his friendship with Alastor. It's only through his love for Alastor that he became that way. Most notably here, this view that betrayal and abandonment are the worst things someone could do comes from the feelings Alastor's rejection stirred. That was the worst thing that someone ever did to Vox, as his heart would tell it.
In life, he was gung-ho to step on and betray anybody to get where he needed to go. Now, he won't speak a bad word against the man that breaks his face until nobody else is around.
Along with their shared moral outlook and both having loud inner-children, Charlie reminds Vox of himself – the younger, less jaded version that Alastor considered a comrade. So... of course, he can see why Alastor would like her. And even if she's not quite on his level of real, Vox himself is impressed that she's sincere about her wild, altruist dreams.
Meanwhile, all Velvette sees is people judging her for her exterior, similar to what happens at the overlord meeting. She's not a sappy type, doesn't mince words, and believes actions speak louder than words anyway.
These allegedly open-minded and accepting people, who claim they don't judge, shove a blade her way when, in her eyes, she really hasn't done anything other than engage with this redemption project in her own unique way (very Disney Descendants-core).
She emphasises 'Hazbin' when saying not everyone is welcome at Hazbin Hotel because her assessment is that they only accept people who are unable to mask their pain and keep their head up.
And this feeds a lot into her demon form being a doll with the capability of putting herself back together. She has the aesthetics of perfection and is unbreakable/a masterclass in mental fortitude, but does that mean Velvette doesn't deserve softness and consideration? And does the grace her strength grants her loved ones mean nothing, and deserve to go unthanked?
Vox is the only other inorganic demon on the cast (...unless Alastor's radio element counts...). They're kindred in that, and I think them of all people, seeming perfectly glossy and without a (reasonable) care in the world, going to the hotel served as a test too, more from Velvette's side of the critique.
Where Charlie passed Vox's test, she fails Velvette's: the hotel is not prepared to deal with people who are largely satisfied with the lives they have made in the Pentagram and have high self-esteem.
okay but have we considered the implications of vox choosing to set himself up as a spiritual successor to the first woman (a powerful monarch and beloved champion of the people who from the very start refused to submit, was cast out for her sins and yet on her own merits became queen, and even then still kept pushing for more) when taken specifically in the context of transfem vox. because we really should.
niche post for me and the small handful of people who understand my vision, but up til now I've been very conflicted about whether I think Al sees Vox as the living embodiment of everything wrong with men (predatory, entitled, comfortable abusing power but crumples like paper mache the moment you put him on the back foot) or as Basically A Woman, Really, I Mean Just Look At Him (high energy, incomprehensible, fundamentally nonthreatening but very entertainingly so). and I've decided that the real answer is that Al swings between both perspectives based on his mood with absolutely no in between and no acknowledgement at any given moment he has ever felt differently. and in this way it can be argued that Alastor was technically the first person ever to clock Vox's genderfluidity.
the thing about Vox being suicidal is that like. He might 100% want to die with his whole heart and soul but I still think there are only VERY specific situations in which he will ever be willing to directly make the attempt. like the thing about blowing up yourself and everyone else is that, sure, it's not as good as winning and becoming god, but it's kind of the next best thing. after all, everyone loves an icarian tragedy! people will be talking in hushed tones about the madman who fell from grace and hit the ground so hard he took out half the pentagram with him ages after the radio demon has completely faded into the margins of history. but killing yourself quietly, with nobody watching, AFTER you've already lost? that's just sad loser behavior. he'd rather suffer.
anyway. for this reason I think he should be very emphatically of the opinion that Val and Vel should've just killed him when they knocked him off that cannon. That also would've been pretty lame in terms of his image but it's okay because he wouldn't have had to make the choice himself and at least then he'd be dead.
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