#andre salt

[pythagoras180]

Who's supposed to be the bad parent again?

[zoe-oneesama]

What are your thoughts on what happened to Chloe at the end of Season 5? Do you plan on watching Season 6?

Like as IF that's the last we'll see of her.

I was gonna wait to give my review of Season 5 - I wanted a release date for Season 6 and then drop them like a count down leading up to the new season - which is why I haven't delved in much and talked about my opinions.

But Chloe's ending was bullshit, and we all know it. Not because she leaves Paris, not because she loses the few friends and connections she has, and not even because she's a massive brat who finally gets some form of comeuppance.

But because of the form that comeuppance comes in.

Why on God's Green Earth is ANDRE the one? ANDRE is the one to drag her ass out of Paris and condemn her publicly and gets to act like the big hero, doing the right thing and putting Chloe in her place? ANDRE. The one who GAVE her her place and covered it in gold leaf and never once until this whack-job of a season considered that a bad thing?!

Appropriate, appropriate face Caline.

The absolute absurdity of them to write THIS MAN in any sort of correct light, the one who from Day 1, Season 1 has been a solid and complete background for why Chloe is...Chloe. Who spoiled and abused his power to make sure she never felt an ounce of consequences or remorse or backlash. How dare they try and pull this move on us when they could remove Audrey from the story entirely and no one would second guess Chloe's entire personality or upbringing?

These writers have somehow convinced themselves that Andre is not only without any guilt in the outcome of this situation, but that he's redeemable! Redeemable through the act of shipping off his daughter, whom he's been nothing but devoted to, and sending her off to a boarding school with her (AS HE ADMITS) just as awful mother as her chaperone, while he abducts casually replaces her with his new better daughter, Zoé.

I'm sure that won't have an adverse effect on your child who is used to absolute and unconditional love for her whole life, you are definitely a good person who's finally figured out how to do the right thing.

/s

These writers have somehow convinced themselves that Chloe is absolutely hopeless and evil and has reached the point of no return, but ANDRE. Andre's fine.

And Gabriel too, apparently. Hm, seems to be a theme with these worthless male parents and getting off scott free....

[miracles4life]

It would be funny if Andre got evilized in a future episode and Ladybug and Catnoir hear him ask them whether it’s possible for him to right his wrongs about Chloe and for Chloe to come back. Ladybug is angry at Andre upon hearing this. Catnoir is like, “So you want to become a better father to Chloe? You felt guilty about not being a good father. Is that why you want Chloe to come back? Is that why you got evilized?”

Catnoir is angry when Andre reveals he was evilized due to distress about his directorial prospects not going to plan, and that Andre wanted Chloe to come back to use her social media influence to boost his career, not so he can become a better father.

Then cracks form in Catnoir and Ladybug’s relationship when Catnoir realised that Ladybug was angry at Andre because she didn’t want Chloe to come back, not because Andre was being such a bad father.

Good idea anon. This could add to Ladynoir Angst. I also think it would be cool if Zoe got an arc where she slowly turns on Andre and realises he screwed Chloe over. Maybe zoe being fury is revealed and instead of Andre sticking by Zoe her throws her under the bus.

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

I think it’s fascinating how both the narrative and the in-universe magic system punishes only the teenagers for acting terrible and never the adults.

The universe of Miraculous has an evil transformation, for one, and that transformation only starts killing the user if they’re not an adult. If you’re an adult, the universe itself doesn’t really care

And we all know how the narrative treats its teenage antagonists compared to adult antagonists (Chloe’s treatment compared to her father’s/Gabe’s)

I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it before

[stormiclown]

[Hot Take] Chloe Bourgeois is One of the Most Consistent Characters in MLB

(warning: this post contains opinions you might not agree with. proceed with caution. Before you scroll, please here me out.)

Chloé Bourgeois is one of those characters who feels inconsistent to many viewers because her behavior escalates, but escalation is not the same thing as contradiction. When you track her arc from Season 1 through Season 5, what you actually see is a remarkably stable psychological profile: a girl whose entitlement, insecurity, and craving for validation drive every choice she makes. The show never presents her as someone who grows out of these traits despite her nonexistent redemption arc.

Now, this isn't to say that the people saying that this is bad writing are wrong, because they aren't. MLB is rife with writing inconsistencies, narrative framing, and poor character dynamics. Not in the ways you think anyway, but I'll get back to that later. But seeing people saying that Chloe is acting out of character and is behaving worse than usual makes me scratch my head, because she isn't exactly doing anything new.

From the very beginning, Chloé’s behavior is rooted in the same three impulses: (1) protect her status, (2) punish anyone who threatens it, and (3) cling to the people she believes define her worth. In Seasons 1–3, she expresses this through petty bullying, manipulation, and constant demands for attention. She wants to be admired, feared, and obeyed, and she lashes out when she isn’t. Her fixation on Adrien, her jealousy of Marinette, and her desperate need for her mother’s approval are all early indicators of the same emotional engine that drives her later actions. Nothing about her core motivations ever changes.

What does change in Seasons 4–5 is the narrative framing of her behavior, not the nature of it. Despite Chloe being written as a spoiled bully with attitude problems who excessively bullies her classmates for little to no reason, her poor behavior was always framed as gag humor and not taken seriously, often just a device to get the akuma of the week. But after Miracle Queen, the gag humor lens was removed, Chloe is still portrayed as a malicious bully, the only difference is that both the narrative and people within the story are treating her like one. Which is where I think the tonal whiplash and bad writing allegations are coming from. The allegations are right of course because from the beginning, Chloe should've been framed and treated more seriously, because bullying is no laughing matter, especially when said bully has the ability to ruin the lives of her victims and avoid consequences because of her extremely powerful and wealthy father.

To go on a side tangent, one of the biggest problems of MLB is that handles bullying poorly because the show often punishes the wrong people and protects the wrong characters. Marinette is a clear example: instead of being supported for standing up to Chloé, she’s constantly compared to her bully as if they’re “two sides of the same coin.” The narrative pushes back whenever Marinette shows frustration or anger, even though she’s been dealing with Chloé’s harassment for years. This directly contradicts the show’s own message that “evil triumphs when good people do nothing,” because every time Marinette does something—calls Chloé out, refuses to tolerate her behavior, or sets boundaries—she’s treated like she’s overreacting or being unkind. Meanwhile, the adults who actually enable Chloé’s behavior—André, Bustier, and Damocles—are never held responsible. André spoils her and excuses everything she does, Bustier preaches kindness while refusing to protect her students, and Damocles is the principle and show be protecting all of his students, yet he doesn't until the last second. Yet the show frames them as sympathetic or harmless instead of acknowledging that their inaction is the reason Chloé’s bullying got so bad. By refusing to hold the adults accountable and by framing Marinette’s justified reactions as “too harsh,” the show ends up sending the message that victims should stay quiet, bullies deserve endless patience, and authority figures bear no responsibility for the harm they allow.

The show has also poisoned the way fans view what is and isn't an acceptable reaction to bullying. When Chloe's nonexistent redemption was teased, the writers had Marinette doing the lion share of the work. She had to change how she saw Chloe, she had to give Chloe more grace even when she was actively hurting her, and she had to give endless chances lest she be scolded by the narrative. They've done this for so long, that when the writers suddenly decide that hey, Marinette shouldn't have to bear the burden of dealing with Chloe, it comes too quick and sudden and is at odds with what they had portrayed before, which obviously led to the fandom crucifying Marinette for not being a doormat therapist and "refusing to learn that she has to be kind to people she hates". Never mind that up until this point, Marinette was probably the kindest non enabler person to Chloe and tried to drag a half decent person from her before she defected to Hawkmoth. But no, she's awful for being tired of having to deal with someone who wants to destroy her, I guess. The is the fault of the writers because they should've made it 100% clear that Marinette shouldn't have to help her long time bully Chloe be a better person and that role should be Chloe's and Chloe's alone.

I don't want to name names, but I saw a post on here that said that Bustier was a better person than Marinette because she's willing to be patient with Chloe to help her grow. I saw another comment that said that Marinette has no right to be upset over Lila trying to take the class rep position away from her because Marinette did nothing to stop Chloe's cheating and bullying 💀. My guy, Bustier is an adult and a teacher. It's literally her job to handle problem students and work with them. She's likely had extensive training for that. Marinette is a child and also Chloe's victim therefore she owes her nothing. Also, I don't know what schools you guys are attending, but in my experience, class reps are not held responsible for the wellbeing of students or tasked with punishing students for bad behavior and being their therapist. That typically the teacher's job. You know, the actual adult. There are many fanfictions that show Bustier treating Marinette as an assistant teacher and foisting off her work on her, but lowkey, the fandom treats her that way too.

When Ladybug stops indulging her, when Adrien pulls away, and when the class stops tolerating her cruelty, Chloé doesn’t suddenly become a different person—she becomes a more desperate version of the same person. Her tantrums become more dramatic, her schemes more reckless, and her alliances more dangerous because she’s losing the social power she once took for granted. This is exactly how someone with her personality and upbringing would react: by doubling down, not by reflecting or improving.

Not to mention, a lot of the behavior and decisions that she exhibited in seasons 4 and 5 are a direct callback to what she does in earlier episodes:

In Horrificator (Season 1) and Queen Banana (Season 4), the parallels are almost identical. In both episodes, the class is trying to make a student film, and Chloé immediately hijacks the project to make it all about herself. In Horrificator, she demands to be the star, refuses to follow directions, and throws a tantrum when she doesn’t get her way. In Queen Banana, she repeats the exact same pattern but with higher stakes—she forces her father to fund a movie where she plays the lead, bullies the crew, and melts down when Zoé is chosen instead. The only difference is that Season 4 gives her more power to abuse, but the behavior itself is the same.

Zombizou (Season 2) and Sole Crusher (Season 4) also mirror each other perfectly. In both episodes, Chloé sacrifices someone else to save herself from an akuma attack. In Zombizou, she literally grabs Sabrina and shoves her in front of herself as a human shield. In Sole Crusher, she sacrifices the entire Dupain-Cheng family. These moments show that Chloé has always been willing to let others suffer as long as she stays safe. Season 4 doesn’t “ruin” her character—it just repeats the same selfish instinct she’s always had. Granted, she does feel guilty about this in Zombizou, but she only apologizes to Bustier, her biggest enabler after her father 🙄.

Her episodes as Antibug, Queen Wasp, and Miracle Queen also show a clear pattern that continues into later seasons. In Antibug (Season 1), she becomes akumatized because she can’t stand Ladybug correcting her. In Queen Wasp (Season 2), she abuses the Bee Miraculous to show off and prove she’s better than Ladybug, even if it puts people in danger. In Miracle Queen (Season 3), she escalates this by trying to take control of the entire city to force Ladybug to acknowledge her. These episodes all revolve around the same idea: Chloé wants power, attention, and superiority, and she lashes out when she doesn’t get them. Seasons 4–5 simply continue this pattern by showing her trying to regain the power she lost.

Another strong parallel is between Despair Bear (Season 2) and Penalteam (Season 4). In Despair Bear, Chloé tries to host a party to make herself look good, but she treats everyone terribly and only tries to be nice because she wants Adrien's friendship back, not because of any growth on her end. In Penalteam, she does the same thing during the class sports tryouts—she mocks her classmates, refuses to follow rules, and throws a fit when she doesn't want to play soccer. Both episodes show that Chloé’s need for control and status has always been more important to her than teamwork or fairness.

A final parallel appears between Malediktator (Season 2) and Revelation (Season 5). In Malediktator, Chloé demands that her father punishes the entire school because she feels disrespected for being called out as a train crasher, showing how quickly she uses her privilege to hurt others. In Revelation, she does the same thing on a bigger scale by teaming up with Lila to spread lies, frame innocent people, and turn the school environment toxic. Both episodes show that Chloé has always used authority figures—or anyone with power—to get revenge on people she thinks have wronged her. Season 5 doesn’t change her; it just gives her a partner who encourages her worst traits.

Specific episodes aren't even needed for this analysis. Her alliance with Lila in Season 5 is a perfect mirror of her Season 1–3 behavior. In the early seasons, Chloé gravitates toward anyone who reinforces her superiority—Sabrina, her mother, Ladybug when she was indulging her, even Hawk Moth when she thinks he admires her even though he's just grooming her. In Season 5, Lila fills that same role: someone who flatters her, validates her grievances, and encourages her worst impulses. Chloé isn’t acting “out of character” by teaming up with another manipulator; she’s acting exactly as she always has, seeking out relationships that protect her ego and punish her perceived enemies.

Even her cruelty in later seasons is consistent with her earlier patterns. In Seasons 1–3, she humiliates classmates, abuses her father’s authority, and weaponizes her privilege. It's simple cause and effect. Her behavior escalates because the consequences escalate. When she loses the Bee Miraculous, she becomes vindictive. When the class stops tolerating her, she retaliates. This is the same Chloé who only now she’s cornered, and cornered people lash out harder. She mimics Audrey’s elitism, her disdain for others, and her belief that status equals worth. In Seasons 4–5, when Audrey reappears and reinforces these values, Chloé regresses even further. Her worst behavior is always tied to her mother’s influence, and the later seasons simply push that dynamic to its extreme.

Chloé is one of the most consistent characters in Miraculous Ladybug precisely because she never changes. Her behavior in Seasons 4–5 doesn’t contradict her early seasons—it completes them. It shows what happens when a character built on entitlement and insecurity finally loses the scaffolding that once held her up.

@nobodyfamousposts @zoe-oneesama @mcheang @jacquesthepigeon

[red-balloon12]

I can’t believe there are people out here still defending Andre- Like I thought by now everyone would unanimously agree he was a shitty parent- Like screw the Chloe arguments or the Marinette and Adrien or Alya or any other discourse. This was a no brainer-

“He was never mean to her” HE DIDN’T HAVE TO BE WHEN HE WAS NEGLECTING THE HELL OUT OF HER-

When are people going to realize both Andre and Audrey were terrible?? And I really shouldn’t be accused of “defending Chloe’s actions” for saying that.

[vulcanohauser]

The Divorce Scene that Thankfully Never Made It

Honestly, Audrey had zero reason to claim Chloé other than to tack on another mark on the "bullshit reasons she's irredeemable" list. Though it did confirm two things.

Andre is a piece of shit coward

Andre is a piece of shit coward who not only broke the law, but used his daughter as a scapegoat for his misdeeds

I would also like to point out Zoé has absolutely zero agency at this point and the only remarkable thing about her is Chloé which further proves she can't function without Chloé.

[njtsuru]

Audrey: "You expect me to sit with the commoners?! You're fired!"

Andre: "Without asking anyone, I used taxpayer's money to send containers full of garbage into Earth's orbit, violating multiple international laws in the process. Don't ask why they have rockets to send it back to Earth like missiles."

Audrey: "You're stupid, you're ugly, you're an embarrassment and a burden, and I'm going to repeat it on national television."

Andre: "I watched The Lorax and the idea of being able to sell air struck me as absolutely brilliant. I planned everything behind your backs again, and we're starting construction today by destroying this beautiful park in the middle of the city's artistic and historical district."

Audrey: "You are using a condom?! How dare you! You're fired!"

Andre: "I'm going to exile my own daughter, whom I've raised for 14 to 15 years, from the country to get rid of her. While I'm at it, I'm going to "legally" gain custody (kidnap) of this other girl since she's actually well-behaved. That way, I'll have someone to comfort and cheer me up when life gets even moderately uncomfortable for myself."

Guess which of these two is part of the Illuminati and is portrayed by the series as objectively the more evil one.