I’ve figured out my primary, I think. Burned Lion with Bird model and an unhealthy Badger model from my parents that I’m trying to drop. I think my secondary is pretty burned (neurodivergence and trauma) and I’m having the worst time figuring it out because I feel like I use bits of everything. I’ve tried looking at my childhood but I don’t have a great memory of it and I burned at some point in middle school or before so there’s not a lot to go on.
I do tend to jump into things quickly but my father always told me never to make decisions based on enthusiasm
Oooh, your dad’s not a Lion. I will be on the look out for some (Bird or Badger) models, especially since I know you’re carrying some unhealthy primary stuff from your parents.
I try to remember that. Especially because I’ve been hurt badly in the past by acting impulsively.
That can be a Lion secondary thing… but also a Lion primary thing. Depends on the circumstance.
Lion: I feel uncomfortable with lying and I’m not great at it. Twisting the truth to my advantage is safer than being caught in a lie. I remember that as a child, I looked up how to tell someone was lying so I could get better at it because it was too easy to tell when I was lying.
That is… super Bird actually. Kind of *adorably* bird. And if you’re neurodivergent, chances are that at the very least you model Bird secondary.
Sometimes I just really want to call someone out for being rude or a jerk but I just paste this friendly facade on because I don’t want people to think I’m an a-hole.
Actor Bird? Badger secondary performance?
But I did get into fights in middle school and there was a time my friend had to hold me back from getting in a screaming match with someone in NYC who called me a whore out of nowhere.
I mean, part of that is being young. There’s anger and aggression here, and sure it’s sort of Lion secondary flavored. But I lived in NYC too. Sometimes people just accuse you of being a shapeshifter or personally killing Biblical figures, out of the blue. It happens.
I used to love being controversial and edgy but now I’m too afraid of doing that or speaking my mind unless I really really know my audience.
Being controversial and edgy for the sake of being controversial and edgy is also very *young.* And sure Lion secondary is possible, but I’m not forgetting about that Lion primary.
Bird: I collect cookbooks and love to study new languages. I’ll listen to podcasts on obscure topics I’m interested in and then run into the other room to tell my husband a cool fact I just learned.
Sounds like (at the very least) a fun Bird secondary model.
I don’t have a lot of people I can rely on for advice with my personal stuff (they just have very different lives or I don’t want to burden them) so I end up googling a lot of things instead of asking a friend.
Oh that’s interesting. You want to ask a friend, but you can’t. (Burnt Badger.) So INSTEAD you do a lot of research on your own (Bird model)
Most of my research does have a purpose, though, like understanding something better or making an important decision. Not sure if this is Bird or Badger but when I cook, I have to follow the recipe exactly the first few times before I feel comfortable adjusting it.
Could honestly be either.
I see videos of people just figuring out how to make a dish on the fly and it’s like witchcraft.
I don’t think you’re an Improvisational secondary.
I wouldn’t even know where to start unless I had a serious base of knowledge or experience to draw on.
… there’s the Bird.
(My mom is a bookkeeper Badger and she’s the one who taught me to cook). I do plan a lot but it’s more anxiety that if I don’t, I’ll forget what I need to do. I feel like maybe Bird is a model I lean into really hard.
^
Badger: I do have a lot of stereotypical Badger hobbies like knitting, baking, etc and I find them very soothing. I don’t like lying but I don’t have to feel the lie, though that makes it more convincing.
You make a distinction between “lying” and “twisting the truth to my advantage.” You conceptualize lying as a skill that you had to learn - which sounds like it’s coming from a very Actor Bird place, so no wonder you don’t have to *feel* it.
BUT. “Twisting the truth to my advantage,” could POSSIBLY be a way to describe Badger mirroring, especially if you’re a little down on Badger in general, which you honestly seem to be.
I do mirror people sometimes, I think, but it’s usually a conscious choice unless I’m tipsy.
Hmm. Interesting. So you consciously mirror people… but also do it unconsciously? “In vino veritas” IS a thing that people say.
I do rely on communities for support, though. I’m in several support groups on Facebook and I often go there to ask for advice/support
That’s *really* Badger secondary.
and to search through old posts for information on what I need.
Bird secondary. I AM pretty confident saying Bird secondary *model* at this point.
And I do ask my friends for advice when they have relevant experience
Okay. I got it. I think I can put it into words. You are writing about a Badger secondary. But every time you mention a Badger thing, in order to explain or excuse your behavior, you throw in a very Bird secondary justification.
I’m too afraid of… speaking my mind unless I really really know my audience.
tell my husband a cool fact I just learned
I end up googling a lot of things instead of asking a friend.
I often go there to ask for advice/support and to search through old posts for information
And I do ask my friends for advice when they have relevant experience
in each of these examples, you are talking about being part of a community, or strengthening the bonds in a community. But either your using a Bird strategy to do it, or you’re doing a Bird thing at the same time… so that makes it okay.
though I try not to do it super often because I don’t want to be a burden and have that define our relationship.
This is the second time you’ve mentioned burdening your friends, and like… I think you’re a Burned Badger secondary. You don’t think that being a Badger secondary *works,* and it’s unsafe to depend on the group or ask them for help. But you’re cutting off a strategy here, a good strategy. People like to help. And sure, be aware and responsible and all that good stuff. But people can also tell you if they don’t have the emotional bandwidth for you right now. They can tell you if you think you’re stepping over a boundary. You don’t have to mind-read. It’s not all on you.
I do try to be a supportive, caring person who brings people meals and stuff, but it’s more because I feel that’s what I’m supposed to do than because it comes naturally.
We know that you “paste this friendly facade on because I don’t want people to think I’m an a-hole.” What you actually seem to be doing is performing a “stereotypical” Badger secondary over your actual Badger secondary. Which is burnt. No wonder you’re confused.
When someone is causing trouble in my community, I think about confronting them and then decide it won’t work and is too frightening and instead I gather stories of what they’ve done from others and go to an authority figure with all the info. That seems Badgery.
I know EXACTLY what this is, because I think you actually house-match me. You get that Lion primary this is wrong go fix it gut punch. And then that feeling has a *little* fight with the Badger secondary that says wait a minute. Take stock of your base of operations. Who is loyal to you. Who listens to you. What secrets to you know. Who wants to do you a favor.
Snake: I’m not sure if this is Snake or Lion, but I tricked my elementary school Spanish teacher into telling me how to say I don’t like something and then got the whole class chanting that we didn’t like Spanish.
you are literally fighting back *with* the community. They’re you’re weapon. Once I got an entire bar to stand up and stare down a guy who was creeping on me. It’s awesome, it’s a superpower, it’s Badger.
Which I realize now was awful but it felt badass as an 8yo.
Look, starting a chant is always kind of badass.
When I got in trouble at school, I would sneak up and leave the upstairs phone off the hook so they couldn’t call home and tell my mom. I tricked my gullible friend into leaving fruit snacks out overnight by telling her they’d come to life.
I don’t know if this is a Badger secondary thing (I’d be charmed if it was) but all this is sounding extremely familiar. When I was younger I used to get a kick out of convincing people I could read minds. My favorite strategy was to listen in on pocket dials. You hear some good stuff listening in on pocket dials.
When my ADHD really whacked me over the head in high school, I became excellent at doing as much of the homework as I could and then BSing the rest.
Truly, that’s just an ADHD coping mechanism. I see it all the time.
I knew how to guide my foreign language teacher into talking about her homeland for the entire lesson instead of going over the homework.
Literally all I had to do was ask Mr. Cook about word etymologies and we’d do no Latin that period. (And I’m sure this is something any secondary could do… but I swear to god, I think it’s something that young Badgers are either very good at, or very likely to use.)
I was very conservative in high school and I was taking a philosophy class with a very liberal teacher. I remember one of my conservative friends just being very outspoken and horrifying the teacher and I was just thinking are you insane? Meanwhile I’d just agree with her and even stay after class to charm her.
Badger performance I think. Doing the teacher’s pet thing. (No judgement, I did it too.)
I do manage to do my “polite mask” for strangers.
^
Acting how I don’t feel for more than a few moments is too draining, though.
Means your either a Lion or a Badger secondary.
It’s kind of confusing because I can be very combative with peers, or used to be, but I’m good at charming adults when I want to. But is that my secondary or my childhood trauma? 🤦🏻♀️ I’m actually really creeped out by some Lion Snakes in media and was badly victimized by a manipulative one in real life so I’m kind of scared of that being my sorting.
I don’t get Snake from you. I do get a pretty burnt Badger secondary, a secondary that feels like it either won’t work or can’t be trusted (or both.) And over the top of that, a “charming” “supportive, caring” “friendly facade” “polite mask” that is “what I’m supposed to do.” And it’s draining you and driving you crazy because it feels like a lie, and are not good at lying. You can mirror, and you can leverage the community for help and support, but right now you’re not doing either of those things.
(you do have a pretty healthy bird secondary model though.)
Howdy! I’m still trying to figure out my own houses and was wondering if you could provide some insight. I haven’t exactly mastered the system so I don’t know how accurate/inaccurate my claims are, so bear with me.
The “why”/Primary: I am extremely motivated by knowledge. I want to know things, not just out of intrinsic curiosity (though that does play a role), but because knowing why things work helps me protect myself more effectively.
One of the trickiest things about this system is separating motivation from method. Because yeah, they are related, but they're also really different. Like this example: "I protect myself by learning things." That's a how, that's secondary stuff. (Bird secondary of course.)
A recent example is this— a group of my former friends all ditched me because I discussed a heavily stigmatized mental disorder that I show symptoms of. And my first response (other than bawling) was to ask them why. And when I got the answer, I was hurt, but I understood. I don’t say this for you to show me pity, but rather because it illustrates this model in action.
This is a really interesting example. Your friends acted in a way that emotionally hurt you. First you processed your feelings (which you talk about in a dismissive, lighthearted, jokey way) then you asked them for more information... which hurt you, but also made you more secure. This is very Bird primary. You feel feelings, but they're whatever. What actually bothers you is not having the data.
(I suspect you're going to end up being a Double Bird. And Double Birds are unique in that their morality and problem-solving are SO interconnected, that they think I'm crazy for saying that for most people, they are in fact two very different things.)
When I got the why and processed my emotions, I cut off ties and realized that their severe judgy-ness had hindered my life for 2 years. And now that I know the “why”, I won’t bring up said disorder again until I know it’s safe. It might never be, but I still have hope.
You updated your system, and you cut away the parts that aren't serving you anymore. Bird primary.
Morally-speaking, I am very sensitive to the views of others around me.
External primary.
I’m not proud of this. In fact, it’s a detriment.
A lot of Birds feel this way. It's a big part of why they tend to like Lion primaries. Lions are much more able to dismiss things with "sounds like that's a them problem."
I won’t go into details, but my parents are… bad. Not wholly, but they are bad. I’ve tried for years, and still do, to escape their opinions because I know it’ll influence mine.
Parents are sticky. They do that. I've been a happily UnBurnt Lion primary for a while now... but I still sometimes hear that voice in my head that sounds like my mother.
And, much like them, I tend to get over-passionate in what I stand for. Unlike them, I’m willing to change if evidence supports this change. I always, however, carry the burden of my former hatred. I always feel guilt over my old beliefs. Even if I’ve changed, the pain I’ve done can never be reversed. And this guilt eats me alive, this shame of being fundamentally wrong.
Okay. You got really emotional on me really quickly here. This could mean a couple things. Your parents sound like fairly toxic Idealists, either Exploded Lions or Exploded Birds (I'm sort of leaning Lion due to the more emotion-heavy words like "passion" and "hatred.") Birds can feel bad, feel guilt, feel shame when looking back at an older version of themselves that they now consider morally repugnant. (Birds are human.) Idealists struggle with the angst of worrying that they are fundamentally wrong about the world. So you could be a guilty Bird, especially if your emotions feel wrong or unhelpful somehow. But you could also be a very Burnt Lion modeling Bird - because Bird seems safer, and you don't want to be a Lion the way your parents are.
When the friend-event happened, I thought that I was in the wrong, and that I had once again fucked myself over because of my passion and sureness in what I have.
"I thought I was wrong because I was acting like an Exploded Lion primary." Yeah, I'm thinking there's some sort of outside influence here that needs to be unpacked.
It took a lot of convincing and evidence for me to see that they were the assholes (albeit I wasn’t pure either— I was their friend, after all).
I'm definitely leaning Bird for you. A bird surrounded by Lions maybe, who sometimes uses Lion terminology. But Bird.
I am a planner and system-lover at heart. I’m not proud of it, but it’s just part of me.
What's with all this negative language? Being a planner and a system-lover is a wonderful thing to be. There's some Burning here.
The caveat— I have autism, so I’m not sure if it’s due to that or not. Hence the shortness of this section. Take it as you will, regardless of if it’s evidence or not.
I have autism and I'm a Lion Badger. People are different. The only real pattern I've observed is the way nerodivergent people disproportionately build Bird secondaries as coping strategies.
Honesty is maybe not the best policy, it’s still an admirable one. I wish, frankly, that my moral system was more honest. I feel like I have no set morals. That it all comes from elsewhere. Lion primaries have this set, intrinsic morality that I envy. My friend is a lion primary, and while my views have radically changed, hers haven’t inched. She’s always been honest about herself and what she holds true.
I'm doubling down on Bird primary for you. This is the perspective of a Bird looking in on a Lion. Lion morality isn't set or intrinsic - it's built, and it changes, but it builds and changes differently than a Bird's does (more slowly, usually). But there really is a pattern of Birds seeing it as more moral/easier/better.
And I’m still trying to figure out what “truth” means to me. I mean, yes, I’m a dry and blunt asshole, but that’s not really the same as gut morality. Internal honesty is what I want, and external honesty is what I have to some extent.
It sounds that you are going though a lot of very intense shifts in your life right now. You've got a diagnosis that has you questioning your place in the world. You've followed your parent's system all you life, and are now deciding that you don't want that. But now comes deciding what you do want, and that's a lot harder (especially for a Bird, who has to build it from the ground up.) You like the way Lions do things, but Lion primaries do not feel accessible.
I’m very clear with who I like. I can admit their faults, and even get annoyed or angry at them, but not even betrayal can stop me from loving them. I’d compare myself to the Twelfth Doctor from “Doctor Who” and Ponyboy Curtis from The Outsiders in that regard.
So maybe you are building a system with very Snake values.
Loyalty is one of my weaknesses. I get overly-attached to people, and so if/when they leave me, it shatters my world. But my brand of loyalty is mostly to people, not philosophical ideas.
... but you're not *really* comfortable with Snake either, if you consider it to be a "weakness."
I would consider myself somewhat philosophical (well, as much as a fucking teenager can be)
Teenagers are *extremely* philosophical, stop being so down on yourself.
but I can be somewhat vague in my beliefs.
Because you're still building them, give yourself a *second.*
If I were to rate the likelihood of what primary I think I am, it’s something like this:
Bird: 9/10 probability (maybe burned)
Snake: 7/10 probability
Badger: 6/10 probability (maybe burned)
Lion: 2/10 probability
What is it with Birds and numbered lists?
The “how”: I feel like I change in order to fit in. I mean, to some extent, we all do, but it’s far more drastic for me. With the lion primary friend, I act as a “Jason Todd” to their Batman. I challenge them, egg them on, crack jokes and become violently passionate and act like a nerd, and she simply watches, usually adding her own comments but mostly sitting on the sidelines by choice. We also joke that I’m the Ferris Bueller to their Cameron Frye. But, with another friend, I’m a parent figure. I listen most of the time, and sometimes jump in with creative ideas and we talk for hours about it.
I'm guessing Actor Bird, both because you can specifically list out the qualities that you "act" out. And because you're invoking and basing your performance off specific [fictional] characters. Which is a HUGE Actor Bird thing.
I go with the flow of a given situation as best as I can (with the added caveat of being autistic, because that does affect how well I can read a room). However, that’s where the adaptation ends.
Huh. I'm hearing Burnt secondary language here. "I'd like to go with the flow and read the room - but I can't, because I'm autistic." You can definitely *learn* how to read a room. Why do you think I'm so interested in (and good at :) personality systems? This is how I learned to use my Courtier Badger. I used to model Bird secondary like crazy, and I kind of don't bother anymore. I don't need the training wheels.
Planning: like I stated before, I’m a planner. I try to learn the most about a situation before jumping in. Sometimes, however, I stall the inevitable and miss my chance, so I jump in and wind up nearly drowning. And this dichotomy repeats. I overcompensate for a lack of knowledge in a situation by micromanaging, or I wind up sitting bored when I’ve already done everything I need to do. And yes, stress and boredom are equally as destructive for me. I try so hard to plan to avoid both of these outcomes, but it only works half the time. So, I guess I’m a bit of a “planster” overall.
I want to learn about a situation... but sometimes I "stall" or "drown" (Burnt language.) But planning also leads to "micromanaging" and "getting bored" (model language.) I think you've got a really loud Bird secondary model... but there might be something else underneath.
Collecting things is fun. Postcards, candles, lighters, crystals, rocks, 1940s hats, knowledge, stories, music, (original) characters, the list goes on. I’m a collector of whatever I can get my hands on. Hell, by this point, I can’t tell what’s my special interest and what I just enjoy (again, autism).
Oh my goodness gracious 'my special interest' and 'what I enjoy' are not two different categories!
But my systems and collections are my coping.
Figured.
I can’t say, though, that they hold any weight outside of emotional release. There’s nothing practical about knowing how they shot The Outsiders movie, or how crows have a flat tail and ravens have two main sections on theirs. All of this knowledge almost feels useless to me. I mean, sure, I’m great at school, but what else? Nothing, it seems like. And being good at school and nothing else makes a person go crazy when they can’t achieve their academic goals. But that’s a bit besides the point— I’m a collector, but I’m unsure how well this really fits into a secondary beyond a model.
Bird secondary model.
I invest in others more than I care to admit.
Oh man, are you a Badger secondary like me?
I genuinely believe in the goodness in humans, no matter how impossible it becomes. Even those who I don’t see any good in aren’t wholly evil. My perception isn’t law.
^ That's primary stuff. Maybe a more Badger-flavored system is going to work better for you than a Snake-flavored one.
But some people trust me: with their secrets, with homework, with relationship issues, with their religious struggles. And I try to help. I might not be good with it, but I do try to help as best I can.
Kinda sounds like a Badger secondary.
I use my planning and my categorizing skills and my knowledge to benefit others. I show up, I do what I need to do, and I don’t usually expect much to come of it. It’s nice when something does, but it’s not expected. And sometimes, these investments into others' lives and grades and relationships do pay off. I make friends. Those friends stick by me, and I trust them. I continue to invest in others, because I am a lover even though I’m cynical.
I think you're a Badger secondary.
And when that trust is broken, like the example in the beginning, I go to people who won’t abandon me to get a second opinion. When I say that I love someone, I mean it. So it hurts when they leave. It always does.
Oh that's your friends leaving hit you so hard. It's not an abstract morality thing at all, it's practical. You're a Badger secondary, and they were your base of support.
I’ll be frank on this— I’m almost entirely sure that I’m not a lion secondary. I’m fiercely efficient and some people see me as a good leader, but that’s it.
Lion and Badger are the two Inspirational secondaries. They're the one who sort of manage to collect armies or families as a side effect of existing.
Even with the leader example, I prefer interpersonal relations or to be alone. I’m not a big fan of group settings.
That's fair. I am also a Badger who really, really likes my own company. Or small groups of interesting people.
If I were to rate the likelihood of what secondary I am, it’s like this:
Bird: 7/10 probability
Badger: 6/10 probability
Snake: 5/10 probability
Lion: 0/10 probability
Other systems for comparison: I’m aware that MBTI and enneagram are, at worst, pseudo-science, but I still enjoy them regardless. At best, they’re fun self-help tools, and that’s how I try to use them.
MBTI: INTJ (Ni-Te-Fi-Se)
Enneagram: 5w4, tritype 514
Sagittarius sun libra moon cancer rising in astrology
FLEV or LFEV in attitudinal psyche
sx/sp (sexual and self-preservation) in instinctual variants
MBTI, Enneagram, and astrology are all fun in their own ways. (I don't actually know the last two!) And I can talk about them on their own terms. But this system was the best, and the most useful, when I went looking for words to describe myself.
I hope this is enough information, and thank you again if you do happen to do this! If you don’t, that’s totally okay. Have a good day!
Thank you for writing in. That was a journey! Thanks @thesketchykid for the submission.
Just watched that Amazon LulaRoe doc, and I *have to say* - what a *perfect* system for reeling in and then exploiting specifically Double Badgers. But also... no wonder that all these x2 Badgers seem to have banded together and are now pursuing multiple class-action lawsuits. Very on-brand.
I’ve been trying to figure out my secondary. I’m mostly sure I’m a built secondary but I could maybe see burnt Lion. Maybe. I’ll start with the case for Bird. I love to collect information about my interests. I love it when I have the knowledge to solve a problem and I find it immensely frustrating if I don’t know what I’m doing.
That's... phrased in a Built secondary way I guess, but it's actually too general.
(I don’t make super detailed plans but I like to have a general idea of what will happen and how I’m meant to act
Oh, THAT'S a Built secondary though. Bird or Badger.
if I don’t have this I tend to panic, especially if I’m clueless about timing. If I’m not a Bird I at least have a fun model. Now for Badger. I think I do the Badger mirroring thing, often without realising until later? Which results in a lot of post-socialising anxiety that I didn’t give enough thought to everything I said or did, even if I can’t identify anything as actually going wrong.
I know exactly what you're talking about, and that *can* be a Courtier Badger thing. Because you do lose track of yourself when you're mirroring sometimes, and if you're mirroring to match a very unusual situation, there can be this weird moment afterwards where you're like... what the hell was I doing?
I also hate rushing things, I want to make sure I do them properly or else not bother at all.
"I want to do things properly, or why bother." = Badger secondary.
However, my family is very Bookkeeper Badger, so some of this could be because of that.
It's possible... but especially since your secondary seems to be more Courtier Badger flavored, I'm not *necessarily* thinking model.
Also, I hate putting work into things that don’t interest me.
That's a Primary issue.
But asking for help is a big problem solving tool for me, so I could see myself as a Courtier Badger, especially as I hate making enemies.
I think I agree.
I try to be likeable and I don’t like conflict. I have ambivalent feelings about Badger, I don’t know if this is because it’s me or because it’s not.
You also have a super Badger family, so the way you feel about them is at least going to affect the way you feel about the secondary in general.
As for Lion, I don’t like to misrepresent myself
You might be a Lion *primary.*
and sometimes I get stuck trying to make things happen by force of will and stubbornness, like I’m stuck on one method and I forget how to look for alternatives.
Especially with the focus on METHOD - this could absolutely be a Badger thing too.
This is mostly a last-ditch tactic and it’s a coin toss if I do this or become nonfunctional from stress. Actually, this probably isn’t even a model, it’s probably just a stress/panic response.
Or Burning. Could also be Burning.
Anyway, thanks for looking over my rambling, I hope you have a lovely day.
ok so hi. i'm definitely a lion primary, that much i'm sure of. i've been stuck between badger secondary and lion secondary recently (for what it's worth, intuitively i'm leaning more toward badger secondary, but i wanted to get a second opinion because there's one thing that's not making sense to me)
basically, i'm very focused on my truth and communicating it
So the FIRST thing you said was about the importance of communicating your truth. Which doesn't sell me on Lion secondary by itself. But still. Interesting that's what you lead with.
But I'm very naturally badger secondary i think. i tend to fall into mirroring people and making them feel comfortable quite often. hard work to me is its own reward. the catch is, i don't think i feel *good* doing it? i do in a sense. it's easy for me to do and i like helping people sort their problems out by kinda becoming what they need
This is definitely a description of a Badger secondary, but I'm going to point out the negativity of the word "fall," which suggests loss, loss of control.
So this could be a Badger model, or a somewhat tired and Burnt Badger secondary, or maybe even a Badger secondary in a bad situation. It can be brutal when you find yourself mirroring people you don't want to mirror, or mirroring people you don't like.
i have a *constant* fear that i'll lose myself to it. i feel disgusted with myself for not being true to myself in that moment.
That does sounds pretty Lion. And whatever is going on with your Badger, it's not happy.
that being said, i can't help but wonder if this is just the lion primary coming through.
i solve problems in a badger way, but i think maybe my lion primary values solving them in a different way.
It's possible to get a kind of disconnect between your primary and secondary. I know Badger Snakes will struggle with this, reconciling the bad reputation Snake secondaries are given with the community that they value so highly. But I don't think that's what's going on here.
being myself and speaking my truth is ultimately what i want for myself.
I would break that down into 'Being myself'= Lion primary. 'Speaking my truth' = Lion secondary.
i want to be able to connect with people, help them with their issues, etc. but i'd feel better about doing it if i were more secure in myself during the process. i feel very insecure thinking about the idea of being badger secondary, because it matters to me to have presence, take up space, be known for myself as i am, but if it's the truth i want to work with it.
You have a very, very negative idea of what a Badger secondary is. Like good lord, wallflowers who are doomed to have inauthentic relationships forever because they constantly turn into whoever they're talking to? That's out of a horror movie.
You're thinking of immature Invisible Badgers. Adult Badger secondaries can have so much weight and power and presence. Even if you want to keep it to just Lion Badgers - that's still Moana, Steve Rodgers, Neville Longbottom, Sansa Stark, Castiel, Will Graham - that's off the top of my head.
I think some soul searching is in order. Why is the idea of being a Badger secondary so scary? Is there a doormat Badger secondary in your life that's coloring the whole thing badly? Are you struggling to find a sense of self in general, and think that with a Lion secondary it would be easier?
Because as it is, I can't tell if you're a Lion secondary modeling an unhealthy Badger secondary, or a burnt-out Badger secondary who thinks Lion secondaries are cool.
some additional details in case they help: really unsure between improvisational vs planned. i think i lean a lot more toward improvisational? for example, i'm kinda infamous among my friends for... never planning. ever. they want to make plans a few days ahead, and to me that just narrows my options down. if i'm going to do something, i want to do it naturally and spontaneously, or it just feels stifling.
That's definitely improvisational.
that's not to say that i don't plan ever though. in situations where i genuinely don't feel equipped to manage something, and i've kinda "checked out" of trying to be myself, i'll often plan just to get through whatever it is.
That's definitely a model. And a really negative model, just look at that language - "don't feel equipped" "checked out" "get through whatever."
for example, i do this at work a lot. i've kinda given up on trying to put myself out there there
BURNT SECONDARY
along with that, i have a history of building communities that i feel safe to be myself in, which to me suggests a badger model and lion secondary.
I mean, everyone wants communities where they are safe to be themselves, people just define "being themselves" and "communities" differently.
But your read is definitely possible. Slightly burnt Lion secondary, Badger secondary that makes the Lion secondary feel safe to use... but feels sticky and wrong when you use it too much.
at the end of the day, my gut is telling me i'm probably badger secondary. lion secondary feels more aspirational to me, just cause the tools that badger secondary has feel so natural to me and i tend to revert to them so often (plus it comes with its own rewards).
Well, that is what we are after here. What is the easiest, what is the most... obvious...
ultimately, i do want to be true to myself, but badger techniques do feel good: work to me is zen. i like being able to just work on the things i enjoy.
This sounds really, really Bookkeeper badger. I think that could easily be what's going on here - you're a Bookkeeper Badger who doesn't like having to bring out the Courtier Badger skillset. That's a thing.
i do make people feel safe, and i enjoy it. i have a talent for becoming a tool of sorts, and being what people need me to be in the moment, although i feel really bad about myself if it goes on for too long or i feel like i'm losing myself to it.
Sounds like a Courtier Badger being used in an unhealthy way/non-consensually/for unhealthy reasons.
in short, i'm a very direct person, and i aspire to be even more that way, but i also strongly value badger methods and enjoy them.
You can be an incredibly direct Badger! These two things are not mutually exclusive! Just yesterday I wrote about the super direct Lion Badger from Catch Me if You Can.
i don't honestly know which i'd sacrifice for the other. in theory, being true to myself is a lot more important to me
Lion primary
but in practice i tend to walk the line between pushing boundaries and blending in.
Badger secondary
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there is one thing i wanted to add to my ask, sorry for sending in two!
i have a complicated relationship with "being myself." i have a super idealized version of what "myself" looks like, and it's pretty standard lion secondary.
So you really like Lion secondaries, and especially with all the improvisational stuff and a desire to "put yourself out there" it sounds like you're building a Lion model. I mean, you're literally constructing a Lion secondary space to exist in.
i tend to get pulled between being myself and giving out my true opinions and shoving myself into this kinda reductionist "helpful and harmless" model that i feel like i get stuck in.
Oh ouch. That barely even sounds like a Badger model, that's a Badger performance.
ultimately i want to be myself for two reasons: one is that it feels more comfortable, and two is that i want people to *see* me that way. i want to be seen as someone bold and direct.
Okay. Here's how I'm reading you. You're a quite loud Lion primary who values "being themselves," and because of that you like and idealize Lion secondaries who seem able to "speak their truth" whenever and however they want.
However, when it comes to solving problems you are extremely Badger. You have a Bookkeeper Badger aspect that you love, and is extremely near and dear to your heart, but you also have a Courtier Badger that you're much more conflicted about. Partly this is because you have a very negative interpretation of what it means to be a Courtier Badger, and partly this is because you've got a constricting Badger performance that you squish yourself into.
So basically... yeah. It's fine to be a Badger secondary who exists in single-player mode most of the time. And it's okay to be a Badger secondary who is really, really direct. Heck, Doctor House is a Badger secondary.
Would you say a Paragon Lion and a Badger burn similarly? There's this character I've been having trouble sorting. He seems to be content even without people (even though he is very charming and gets along with them easily), which doesn't seem Badger. But recently in the story he's been through absolute hell and has been saying stuff like "I've realized I'm nothing but a cog and my purpose is to keep this system running," which feels pretty Burnt Badger.
I think your guy's a badger secondary. I mean, "charming and gets along with people" - all things being equal, probably a Courtier Badger. And when Badger secondaries *burn* they can lose perspective and self-preservation, work until they can't anymore.
Even the way that quote is phrased "I'm nothing but a cog (action) whose purpose is to keep the system running (motivation)." If it's still all about the system, that's still Lion primary. And actually, Exploded Lions have a way of thinking of themselves and others as tools. A Burnt Badger secondary would just reinforce that. Exploded Lion/Burnt Badger is a really brutal combination.
Could you give examples of fictional Snakes modeling Badger?
With questions like this, feel free to check out the Master Character Sorting Document, which I just went through to put together this list. That said, questions like this are going to get you really weird combinations of characters:
