synopsis: for a while now, weverse has allowed fans to ‘dm’ their favourite idols. it’s controlled, it’s monitored, it’s all very pc… until you come along one drunken night and break the rules. what is supposed to be a harmless act of communication quickly spirals into much, much more and begs the question, how far should communication between a fan and an idol really go?
a/n: oh hey! fancy seeing you again... nothing to see here, just a little happy bunny who decided to go live after being influenced at the concert... hehehe x
Officer: So let me get this straight. You two were fighting on the streets because of a…fan war?
Clark: He started it! He was tearing down all my ‘Batman is the #1 Superhero’ banners! As the president of the official Batman fanclub, I had to do something!
Bruce: Your hero is a miserable weirdo who skulks around in caves like a rabid flying rat. How can someone like that be the #1 Superhero? Obviously, it should be a good role model like Superman. Besides, you protested against the final round of the annual popularity poll and tried to get our votes invalidated, didn’t you? This is payback.
Clark: Because it’s rigged! Batman was clearly leading the poll until a million votes for Superman appeared out of nowhere. I bet you bought those votes, you rich crook! And don’t call Batman a weirdo, he’s just misunderstood! He’s a hundred times braver than Superman!
Officer: Listen, gentlemen, can't we resolve this peacefully? After all, these two superheroes are on the same team — the Justice League. You should be showing support for both of them!
Bruce: You’re delusional. The Superman fan events were a massive success nationwide, clearly demonstrating his popularity. Where's your evidence that I was buying votes, Mr Investigative Journalist? Even you can't deny it: Superman, the visual king, inspires the masses more than that ugly, sad excuse of a gargoyle you call a hero.
Clark: Ugly?! [holds up a life size standee of Batman] You call someone with this chiseled jawline and these sculpted pecs ugly?
Bruce: [punches a hole through the standee]
Clark: Ahh! How dare you hit Batman! [lunges at Bruce]
I’ve got to be real here, guys - it’s getting bad out there. Fandom wars seem to be breaking out all over the place, and it’s bloody exhausting. There are long, carefully constructed arguments being made on both sides, sometimes with accompanying data and/or statistics. There are polls and poll-hijackers. There are furious comments thrown across the fence of other people’s posts like miniature bombs. No one is allowed to be neutral.
Funny story! I am not neutral. I am actually very firmly on one particular side of my particular fandom’s particular war. If anyone cared to talk privately with me on the subject - if they specifically asked for my opinion - I would gladly provide it.
However. I do not engage in the public warfare, and here’s why…
It accomplishes absolutely nothing.
I mean, come on, you know this.
No one in this fight is coming to the table with a genuine interest in understanding the other person’s point of view - not even you! I get it, of course I do - it’s so tempting to keep laying out your points, meticulously explaining all the reasons why you’re right, because how can anyone not get it? How can they not see, when you’ve explained it all so clearly? But you know it doesn’t work, because the people you’re yelling at believe the exact same thing. They think their points are the most logical, the most intelligent, and they can’t understand why you can’t see how wrong you are. Could anyone argue you out of your point of view? Has your perspective ever been materially altered after someone reblogged your post with an agitated argument disparaging every point you made? No, obviously not, so assume it will be the same the other way around. Fandom warfare does not change hearts and minds.
2. You are not protecting anyone.
I’ve seen this argument a few times - it’s not about changing minds, it’s about standing up for what’s right! It’s about showing that these ignorant opinions will not go unchallenged! And again, I do understand the instinct. After all, don’t we say that every time you don’t speak out against bigotry, you’re implicitly siding with it?
The problem is, nine times out of ten these arguments aren’t actually being directed at anyone. I mean, let’s face it, we are talking about fictional characters here. There’s no one real to actually defend. Be really honest with yourself - are there any real, live people who you can point to and say, yes, my fandom fight actually improved their life in some material way? And no, defending them in an argument they actively chose to participate in doesn’t count. Yes, sometimes people on the other side of the issue say things which could be triggering or unpleasant for someone reading them, but is yelling at them going to help the triggered person any more than simply blocking them? Probably not.
3. It’s not actually inherently wrong for someone to disagree with you.
You’re not going to like this one… but yeah. It’s actually really problematic to yell at people for the simple crime of holding an opposing opinion to yours. Let’s be clear here - I’m not talking about people deliberately harassing or bullying you - but someone who just made a post on their personal blog canvassing opinions you don’t like, no matter how ignorant or unpleasant you find them, isn’t inherently bad.
I can hear you now, saying to me - it’s not the fact that they have the opinion, it’s the fact that they won’t tolerate anyone else disagreeing with them! But… isn’t that kind of what you’re doing? You want them to accept your disagreement, but you won’t accept theirs. Lead by example, even when it’s hard. The block button is your friend.
4. Every time you engage, you publicise the very point of view with which you disagree.
Think about it - if someone relatively neutral reads the long reblog chain, them versus you, their terrible opinion and your beautifully crafted rebuttal, their ignorant response, your increasingly agitated push-back, them calling your a slur and/or accusing you of supporting bigotry, your series of scornful gifs expressing how wrong they are… Well, it seems obvious to you, but is that neutral person definitely going to be on your side? You think they should be, but there are plenty of people who aren’t.
All you’ve really done is circulate both sides of the fight to a wider audience. The post that would have died a pathetic death with three notes is now a hotbed of activity with notes in the triple-digits and a bunch of smaller fights going on in the comments.
5. Starving a fight of oxygen is actually the only way to kill it.
If you’ve got this far, you’re probably wondering - does she know how bad it is out there? We’re not just talking about a bunch of people yelling about shit that doesn’t matter. Some of these people go to extremes. There’s doxxing, harassment of actors and fans alike, truly evil commentary that hurts real people. Doesn’t she get that?
I do. I do get it, and I don’t like it either, and to be clear, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t take action over specific harassing behaviours. But this is where you need to think really carefully about what your actual goal is here.
What do we want here? Do we want everyone to agree with us? It’s never going to happen, see point 1. So what’s the next best thing? Probably for the fighting and harassment and nastiness to stop, right? Like, okay, have your gross ignorant opinions, but just shut up about them. Leave me out of the whole thing.
And there’s really only one way to make that happen, which is to stop adding fuel to the fire - and just. Stop. Engaging. There is a LOT of evidence to show that this works. The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker has some really great chapters on it, if you want to read about how silence can literally stop stalkers in their tracks.
Not convinced? Here’s a personal anecdote: a few years ago, back when I used to post a lot more about my personal life, I started getting nasty anons in my inbox. They called me horrible names, asked me really unpleasant and invasive questions, and at one point managed to extrapolate enough information from my previous posts to pretend to be my abusive ex, which was absolutely vile and really hurtful.
What did I do? At first, I published the anons with scathing responses. I got lots of very supportive comments and messages from my friends online, which was both comforting and validating. People expressed disgust and repulsion that anyone could be so unpleasant.
The problem was, the messages kept coming - and in spite of the support I was getting elsewhere, they were really upsetting me. I wanted it to stop. So I changed my approach. I turned off anonymous messaging. I stopped publishing any nasty messages, deleting them immediately from my inbox. I went back and deleted the previous ones I had published. I stopped talking about it at all, so that anyone messaging me found their comments disappearing into a void, uncertain whether or not I had even received them.
What happened? The messages tapered off. Turns out, it’s not much fun sending hate to someone who acts like they didn’t even see it. I’ve now been able to turn anonymous messaging back on, and I haven’t had a repeat, even though the person harassing me is presumably still out there.
I’m just saying - it works. If we want the hate to stop, if we want the fighting to be over - we have to stop engaging with it. Let them yell in their hateful corner of the internet. We don’t have to listen.
6. It’s actually really bad for your mental health.
Well, sure, you might be thinking - it’s not that I disagree with any of this, it’s just that I enjoy the debate! I like winding up the haters, setting them off and watching them yell until they’re blue in the face! It’s hilarious!
First of all, it’s not actually that funny for the people who have to bear witness to it, but more of that in a moment. It’s actually really bad for your health and wellbeing to consistently engage in warfare. You may think it’s not affecting you, but can you really think it’s good for you? You’re dwelling in anger and hatred, even if you’re not the person perpetuating those emotions. You know it’s not good for you. You deserve better than that!
7. It’s seriously off-putting for other people in the fandom who just want to have a good time.
This whole post has come about because I’ve had to unfollow six or seven people this week due to the level of argumentative posts they’ve been blogging and reblogging for months. I have tried really hard not to mind, because fun fact! I like these people! Many of them are people I have chatted to in smaller social contexts and really enjoyed talking to. They post content I enjoy, and - crucially - I actually agree with most of their opinions. I held off on unfollowing them for a really long time.
But I can’t take it any more. I don’t come to tumblr to witness other people arguing. It’s depressing and it makes me feel like shit, even when the people reblogging the posts are people I like and agree with. It makes me feel like this fun thing that we’ve all got in common, these characters we love, these stories we craft together, has turned into something we have to argue about all the time, and it’s absolutely exhausting.
I’m willing to bet I’m not the only person in fandom who feels this way. And think about it - do you really want to lose followers over fandom warfare? Wouldn’t you rather block the people who disagree with you than find yourself blocked by people who actually like and agree with you and who you could have spent time engaging positively with?
8. Fandom is supposed to be fun - and what goes around truly does come around.
It’s hard, and I totally, totally get the instinct to want to defend your point of view. It’s really unfair to hear people detract the things you love, to call you names just because you enjoy a certain thing, and to say nothing about it.
But fandom, at its core, is supposed to be something you enjoy. It’s supposed to be fun. You can curate your experience. You can cultivate a space where everyone is kind to each other, where the angry ignorant people who don’t want to let you enjoy things are left out in the cold without any attention paid to them.
How do you do it? The block button, as I’ve mentioned, is your friend. You can block certain tags. You can unfollow people who consistently spew opinions you find hateful. You can delete nasty messages without publishing them. You can agree that you’re not going to waste time bitching in an echo chamber about these people, that you’re not going to give them the privilege of your attention. You can engage positively with fandom and with the people who you actually like within it.
I promise you, it can be done - and the more of us who do it, the better off we’ll all be.
Never thought I'd see the day where I'd admit I'm starting to feel burnt out on am*urshipping solely bcs no one has acknowledged that toxic XY haters attacked XY fans first and made them this way in the end (and never will). Don't get me wrong, I still ship it even now but... yeah. I'm gonna have to be semi-inactive on it until I've fully calmed down. I know fanwars and shipwars still exist regadless of online fandom so the least I can do is do my best to do self-care.
As someone who has been there and done that all too often, if a friend tells you "if you don't agree with me about something related to fiction, then we're not friends and I hate you" in some way or the other, then they aren't your friend.
"Nothing groundbreaking about being an oscar nominee" It's not like I like the fact that Ana was nominated for Blonde, but girlie is a SAG, Oscars and two times Golden Globes nominee. Trying to minimize that just because Chris hasn't ever gotten a nomination in neither of those big awards is insulting for everyone else that's ever been recognized by those.
"What he has become in the past decade" Please? He has become who he is thanks to Marvel, not his talent. If he had depended only on his acting choices, man would be retired by now
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there some nasty fs rivalries like a decade ago and that had been the norm? And Yuzu was one of the reasons (either intentionally or unintentionally) it changed to how everyone is so respectful and friendly now so it's a much more pleasant atmosphere? So basically, by trying to promote a make believe nasty rivalry between Yuzu and Shoma/Nathan, they're disrespecting the work Yuzu has done to stop that?
I follow figure skating for some time and actually my overall view was that since I follow it, the rivalry narrative has been mostly created by media and some fans. I follow skating roughly since 2009. I think the most drama is always created by fans not the skaters themselves.
Though ofc there are those old scandals ppl know about like the Tonya Harding story in the 90s or how Plushenko and Yagudin both openly stated that they hate each other while they were competitors. Also how Plushenko didn't respect him finishing behind Lysacek in 2010 and how he stepped on first place first before getting to his position. Yeah there definitely were also other times.
I think though that those extremes were rare and not the norm, but as I didn't follow skating closely then I cannot really tell. I mean even nowadays it's not about how everyone is friends and everyone gets along with everyone, that would be a lie. It's not true. And ofc there are rivalries in training groups and at competitions, but my overall impression is that it's seldomly nasty. I think in the end skaters all are much aware of the sacrifices that everyone has to go through and everyone knows how hard this sport is and how politics influence competitions etc. So with sharing those experiences you can see a bond. It's told by many skaters that the skating community is like a family. And though it's through a social media lense you can see how they often support each other, how they post pictures with one another. I don't think that's fake.
Yuzu is special in many ways. I think how Yuz treats his fellow competitors is mainly rooted in his own experience with haters and ofc his own personality. Yuzu had his own share of bad experience with fans in 2012 Nationals when he beated Daisuke Takahashi, the most popular Japanese skater at that time, and they booed Yuzu for winning. (though ofc there are fans who dement that this has ever been the case, there is video evidence though) I think Yuzu at that point decided that he didn't want anyone get through the same thing and this is why he has always been very supportive of his juniors and also always has been very respectful to the other skaters, especially the winners. I think especially shown his attitude in Nationals 2019 with his own disappointment but still he had only positive words to say about Shoma and even said he was happy for him. A moment I will cherish forever as a fan of Yuzu and Shoma. ❤️
I do think you are right that Yuzu helped create an environment of respect for other skaters. And yes if toxic fans would actually respect Yuzu and listen to his words, they would not act like that. I am not sure if you can really say Yuzu is the reason it became friendlier off-ice, but surely Yuzu was the one to make sure the rivalries he was involved were friendly and respectful and this definitely had an impact on the new generation of skaters. Yuzu does have quite an influence even inside the skating community so I am sure his way helped.
I think a major problem is that the skaters are very much aware of the hatred by fans. Even already back in October 2017 it was reported by newspapers about the fanwars between Yuzu and Shoma fans and Yuzu was quoted saying, that he doesn't like to talk about Shoma much because he wants to protect him from the haters. At another point Yuzu also said he doesn't like to say much about Shoma because his words get twisted to hurt Shoma. Shoma also said at one point "hate me all you want". So it's sad to see that though Yuzu even said things like that it doesn't get respected by his own fans.
Imo toxic fans aren't real fans. Those ppl are attention seekers and trouble makers. I think they are miserable with their own life and cannot tolerate other ppl being happy about things they don't like as they think their opinion is the only one valid. I think a lot of toxic Fanyus are actually only Fanyus because Yuzu has the most fans atm, because he won a lot of titles and because he is unproblematic because he does not share his personal life or opinions on it at all. It's easy to make someone a saint and godlike figure because obviously he doesn't have any flaws according to them. So everyone else in comparison ofc cannot stand against their god. They completely neglect Yuzuru Hanyu the human being who obviously also has flaws, who isn't always perfect, who won't always win, who makes mistakes. I don't deny that they may like his skating too, but I think being this loud and toxic is just for attention and not because they care about Yuzu the human. If they would care they would respect his work, his words about other skaters, accept his flaws and defeat (when he can accept that he lost, why can't they?) and respect his friends and rivals. But they care only for themselves.
The problem with toxic fans on Twitter is that they are not a minority anymore, which is changing the perception of the fandom. Twitter has a general problem with cancel culture in many different fandoms. The more attention those toxic fans get, the more it becomes the norm of how Yuzu fans act, because apparently if a lot of ppl do it, it's ok. (though obviously it's not.) There are accounts that actively create a picture of Yuzu being the victim of everyone and everything and everyone new asking will only get their version. The problem with the "Fanyu cult" is that they actively go after accounts not buying their narratives, they bullied some ppl into deleting their accounts, sometimes even among their own (like Iron_Klaus for example).
I am not sure if the fandom really got more toxic or if I am just more aware of what is going on in the fandom. Fanwars were always a thing I fear. I think the one I first experienced was the Mao Asada vs Yuna Kim aera. I always liked them both equally so when I got more into the fandom I was quite shocked to see the vicious attacks on both sides of fans. There was also some very nasty time when Evgenia Medvedeva rose in the ranks and beated Yuna Kim's records. And also before her when Adelina Sotnikova won against Yuna Kim in Sochi 2014 (imo it should not have happened and this may be my biggest grudge ever, but there is no reason to send death threats to Sotnikova).
Though generally I fear any fandom always has their share of really bad fans who aren't interested in creating a friendly environment but are only keen on getting their own points across, no matter how disrespectful or hateful their opinion is. It sadly is human nature that there are a lot of bad unhappy ppl in the world and some ppl only find attention in fandom.
Just for clarification I don't think Yuzu is at fault for what his toxic fans do. And actually I don't even think it would help if Yuzu would say something about it. It's not in his control. I think it's very sad that fans are turned off from the fandom or Yuzu as a skater because of what his toxic fans do. And imo as skaters can see the hate and use the sns themselves and google their own name even, it also isolates Yuzu within the skating community, I fear that skaters cannot be with Yuzu freely without fearing being attacked (just look at what happened to Boyang Jin and Misha Ge when they shared pictures with Yuzu they got harassed as attention seekers. Or how Andrei Mozalev allegedly got death threats because he apparently was at fault for the hole in the ice that caused Yuzu to pop his 4S.) (Edit: it was brought to my attention that there is no actual proof of fans sending death threats, so maybe it is exaggerated, but Mozalev definetly got his share of bad comments and direct messages sended to him on Istagram, so make up your own mind if true or not)
I am sorry if this reply is a bit messy, but there are a lot of thoughts on this topic and those fanwars are time consuming and annoying and drain the fun sometimes to the point of thinking if it is worth it. 😔
