#fe3h discourse

[burr-ell]

we have GOT to put more words on the high shelf bc how are both critical role AND fire emblem fans still insisting that divine creation myths are actually about colonizers

[diaphin93]

I wonder if you would like to entertain this for a second: consider how sexist Edelgard haters tend to be and how they always give her more criticism for things that other characters have done, but worse. Let's play a game: what if Dimitri and Edelgard's genders were reversed? I'm just curious; what do you think the discourse would be like then? I honestly don't think Edelgard would get the hate that she does if she were a man, with the exact same character, just as a man. The same goes for Dimitri; if he were a woman, I don't see the discourse being the same. Sure, Edelgard's methods would be criticized, but I doubt you would see the same level of hate towards her. I think Dimitri's haters, if he were female, would be far more aggressive than Edelgard's, because God forbid women suffer trauma. I don't think Dimitri would receive the same grace. I wonder, am I wrong for thinking this way?

Oh, I totally agree and I think this is a problem that goes across fandoms and this specific game. Fandom is incredibly misogynist and male centric, which is something many women just as much participate in. It has been discussed in feminist circles and especially among sapphic fandoms in depth already. Women are across most fandoms treated less favorably and being judged more harshly than their male counterparts, being either accused of not being as deep as male characters, too good, too pure or too evil. Male characters get to be treated with nuance, while female characters are dismissed.

There is no question that if Edelgards and Dimitris genders would be reversed, the common talking points would be just as much reversed. A male Edelgard would be certainly praised for his moral grey writing, depth and nuances by fandom, while a female Dimitri would be treated as cruel and hysterical, probably even accused of being ableist for not being considerate of Eduards trauma while at the same time being called a Mary Sue or being accused of only being forgiven because she's a waifu after her redemption.

The issue with Edelgard is also not only that she suffered trauma, but that she is not expressive and vulnerable enough in terms of her trauma. Her trauma makes Edelgard very guarded, fierce, determined and angry at the world which is her motivation for changing it. Trauma in media, especially female trauma, is only accepted when it is expressed in a vulnerable and passive way, being the broken bird that needs to be picked up.

It is probably also the reason why Rhea is generally more accepted than Edelgard outside of Crimson Flower. Rhea is a more acceptable form of female character, while she is powerful, her power is never something that threatens or outshines male characters and for most of the routes players like her in, she is confined to be a Damsel in Distress to be saved. She represents a more traditional and socially acceptable maternal form of femininity in her default personality, while her Trauma is primarily expressed through vulnerability and a need for emotional support. Crimson Flower is another beast, where her trauma, pain and perceived betrayal is expressed in a very unhinged, furious and spiteful form and she lashes out to enemies. It is powerful and therefore, it is dismissed as out of character and a betrayal for what her supporters want to be her character, which is somebody who is described as strong enough so that especially male fans can feel like they are on an equal footing, while at the same time being both a nuturing maternal figure and a helpless broken bird that needs to be saved and protected. Rhea herself is only ever accepted inside the confines of the patriachal ideal of a woman.

Edelgard never operates under this confines. She has a few cute moments and I will not deny that a shit ton of male fans try to reduce her into more acceptable framework, as an innocent and self-pitying victim with little agency, but for the most part she is a very transgressive woman.

[pathetic-gamer]

Black Eagles hot takes then? :)

oh BABY let's fucking go.

I gotta preface all of this with a quick reminder that the Crimson Flower-Silver Snow dyad is my favorite aspect of the whole game by a mile and it's SO CLOSE to being perfect (keeping in mind both the one notable suggested improvement to Silver Snow that ive talked about a million times and won't wax poetic about in this post* and the obvious travesty that is making TWSITD a postscript in CF rather than an actual fight). Neither is complete without the other, the tragedy they share is incredible, and no one appreciates how much Silver Snow adds to Crimson Flower and the complexity of the Beagles. I'm the only person who understands it everyone else is wrong and also morally corrupt (joke that's a joke I'm joking i'm making fun of myself im jokinggggg)

Anyway, Edelgard is an incredible character, I really like her and I really really REALLY wish her own route had done more to explore her complexities and parallels with Rhea - especially wrt how they both see Byleth - so that it wouldn't have relied so heavily on the player having played Silver Snow. However, this is Black Eagles hot takes, not Crimson Flower! So I will ignore that and just talk about this from a character oriented perspective.

*the notable suggestion for improvement is that we should have been able to fight Nemesis as a penultimate boss in Silver Snow

First, some thoughts on recruitment. I'm including these bc they are a very tangible illustration of my takes w/r/t characters and how game mechanics reflect that.

I've said before that I think some characters should be able to desert their faction if, by the time you hit the time skip, you have neither hit their recruitment requirements nor reached a certain support rank between that character and the faction's lord. For the beagles, that's Petra and Ferdinand.

On the other hand, Dorothea and Bernadetta are great contenders for "go back to their home faction at the timeskip and have to be re-recruited" units if you do any other route, Silver Snow included. Alternately, they shouldn't even been recruitable outside CF lmao

Related, Lorenz should be an auto-recruit post-timeskip, provided that you have met recruitment requirements and gotten his available pre-timeskip support ranks, given that his family canonically sides with the Empire. Annette could fit into this as well, if she doesn't have supports with Gilbert and Dimitri (but in her case, I guess it's more that she's the designated deserter in AM, since iirc, House Dominic remains loyal in CF and therefore it isnt relevant).

Notably, Lysithea does NOT fit into this. More on that later.

Now some non-game mechanic stuff:

The HC I noted in the ask before this about Ferdinand not immediately siding with Edelgard falls under the hot takes category, so I'm including it here. He has so much potential for a really compelling character arc about learning to let go of the divine right of kings type shit he starts out believing in, and it's such a shame it gets glossed over. (It's especially weird that he kinda does get that perspective by going rogue during the timeskip in other routes, not to mention doing his route-restrictive paralogue with Lysithea, but not in the one route where it would be the most impactful, given that it's like the only route where they really intentionally try to overturn the status quo lmao.)

DONT TAKE BERNIE AWAY FROM THE BEAGLES STOP IT LEAVE HER ALONE LET HER FIND SOME GODDAMN PEACE AND SAFETY. IT'S THE ONLY ROUTE WHERE SHE LEAVES HER ROOM FOR A REASON. and also stop pairing her up with Raphael, I hate their ending lol

People glossing over Petra's status as a political prisoner and her complete lack of autonomy gets Real Fucking Tiring Real Fucking Fast. She didn't choose to be there, and she didn't choose to take the Empire's side during the war. When Hubert tells her Edelgard would crush her and Brigid if they ever tried to rise up against the Empire, he's not joking.

Adding to the previous point, everyone forgets how young Petra is 😭 She's only a few months older than Lysithea, and the next oldest character is Linhardt who is a full year older than her. It adds so much to the gravity of her situation, and I wish people made more of an effort to point it out.

It bothers me that people consider Lysithea an "honorary beagle." I know she and Edelgard have a lot in common and it's powerfully thematic for them to get to team up, but Lys doesnt know that unless you unlock their B-support - even then, she cant confirm Edelgard's true goals until their A-support, which happens after the war has already started. From her perspective, the Empire declared war on her homeland and family under Edelgard's orders. Regardless of any suspicions she may have about Edel's past, why in the goddamn fuck would she willingly side with the faction she has every reason to believe is responsible for the horrific things that happened to her? The only thing that would make this make sense to me is if Lysithea and Edelgard got to have a real discussion before the war where Edel actually tells Lys what her real goals are, even if she doesnt openly say itll take a war to do it. Recruiting her manually after defeating her at Derdriu makes plenty of sense, so I have no complaints there, but I just have such a hard time taking this seriously in literally any other scenario.

[momowho34]

being a fan of fire emblem: three houses on tumblr is great because rather then exploring the interpersonal drama and fascinating nuance provided by the storie’s multiple perspectives, people choose one out of three characters that they find the sexiest and then start tearing each other apart over who was right, bending over backwards in an attempt to exonerate Their Side of all wrongdoing and paint their perceived opponents as villains with zero character or motivation, thus erasing the interesting nuances of the story while everybody says shit like “if you don’t apply complex political theory to the fantasy magical dragon fighting video game the same way i do then you’re fascist scum in real life.” what a tangled web we weave

[delusionbound]

im not really qualified to talk about this issue. please check out some poc fe3h blogs if you wanna learn more about this.

it’s just really weird and sad seeing this. despite fe3h being a game which focuses on class, race, and other issues, people are still incredibly goofy when it comes to this shit. im sorry if this sounds weird it’s just frustrating seeing people get mad about mlm ships or platonic ships when the pair isn’t just two white guys. it’s 2 am sorry for the rant ajsjjakanfdll

[pretty-weird-ideas]

Black Writer Rant: Dedue Molinaro

Just remembered how common it was for white fans to state that any black person who wrote Dedue with realistic trauma and negative feelings about his situation was writing a "spite fic" and it upset me. It's ridiculous how common it was to accost black fans who wrote a Dedue-centric fic that had "mean things to say" about racist characters. Or didn't paint their emotional support white kids in the most flattering way (even if it wasn't making them racist). Simply writing Dedue in a one-sided or making a fic that shied AWAY from slash altogether had some of yall itching to fight people over the internet. Y'all really just disliked when black fans discussed black trauma altogether and made the massive overreach to call it "spiteful".

Any fic that didn't place white feelings and their romance first had some of yall freaking out like it was a crime against humanity. Fanfic that prioritizes racism as its main plot and not slash or white angst was considered a crime for black writers.

Writing angst and whump in the same category and subject that white characters were subjected to also made them mad. Because it was simply "framing Fodlan as too cruel". Still will never forget when someone was writing a legitimate non-fetishistic depiction of the horrors of Duscur genocide and someone who was beta editing their story cut in to condescend and say that it was "too dark". Despite the beta writer writing much more dark and borderline fetishistic depictions of the same exact thing happening to white characters on the regular.

This is the last time I will see someone act like a victim online because black fans wrote a character with real issues instead of how a white fan's own fragile sense of self would like them to be. This is the last time I will accept a person getting mad that a black writer's Dedue fic is "only about racism". Especially when white character studies that are as boring as watching paint dry are considered acceptable and cathartic. But black character studies that vent about black issues are considered violent and aggressive.

[bridget-lover]

Edelgard haters and dimitri haters is the same

[speeedyquick1245]

Wow I love when people give their opinion on Rodrigue/Gilbert and it is 95% headcanon or conjecture. It is a general problem of the fe3h fandom as a whole.