Is Illuga the Only One Flins Addresses Differently?
While playing through the Nod-Krai Archon Quest and later revisiting some dialogues, I noticed a small but very intriguing detail.
Flins is a polite and formal character. Throughout the quest, he addresses almost everyone else in the same way: using "Miss," "Lady," or "Mister" before their names, or sometimes just by their name. But more often than not, he simply speaks directly to the person without addressing them by name at all.
One slightly notable exception: I think he called Varka "friend" once during their drinking scene, but after that episode, it never happened again.
And against this background, Illuga stands out significantly.
Flins addresses him with a whole range of variations: "Master Illuga," "Dear Young Master," "Young Master," and simply by his name. Quite a wide selection, especially compared to his very restrained way of addressing everyone else.
And as far as I remember, there isn't a single other character that Flins addresses this way—or even in a similar manner.
What do you think he implies by addressing Illuga like this? What's the meaning behind these different titles?
What makes this even more interesting is their relationship in the game. If I remember correctly, the game establishes that Illuga is actually the closest person to Flins. He regularly visits him, and based on the recently added mini-stories (like the one with Aino and the mechanisms), they spend a lot of time together beyond just the lighthouse visits. Not to mention their dialogue exchanges and the fact that Illuga appears in almost every story involving Flins.
And a separate question for those who understand the cultural context or lore better: From the perspective of European fae logic (since Flins is one of the last Snowland Fae), wouldn't such an address actually grant Illuga quite a bit of power or a special status in relation to Flins? Or am I possibly misunderstanding something, considering that English is my third language and I might be missing some nuances?
The fact that Pantalone and Dottore reflect a priest and a plague doctor makes so much sense...
At fiiiiirst the alliance between these two seems like a simple pact where one provides the money and the other runs the experiments (everyone and their mamas know that not really) however mihoyo do several details behind their visual designs that go far beyond mere sthetics their attire reveals a very interesting past.. why does the banker dress like a cleric, and the scientist like a plague doctor? 🤔
The Dance of Death
During the worst epidemics of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, cities became total quarantine zones. Whenever the plague rolled in, rulers and wealthy citizens packed up and fled to the countryside. In the middle of all that abandonment and chaos, plague doctors and priests were pretty much the only authorities who actually stayed behind to face the horror on the streets, since the science of the time blended religion with medicine, both professions needed each other to manage the chaos of the infected cities, Doctors treated human bodies while clergymen treated the soul (since the plague was considered a divine punishment) so doctors rarely treated a patient if he had not confessed to a cleric beforehand bcs a cursed soul could not be cured
The Lazarillos and Pure Faith (14th Century)
In the original Black Death outbreak, their teamwork came from sheer desperation. Back then, doctors just wore regular cloth clothes (no bird masks yet ☹️ ....) and they worked side by side with priests in lazarillos (make-shift plague hospitals administered by religious orders, but the technical staff were plague doctors) and it was a total team effort:
While the doctor tried to stabilize the patient's body, the priest kept people from completely panicking, which was a huge deal because hysteria caused massive riots in the wards.
If they visited an infected house, they went in together. The doctor figured out if the patient had a fighting chance, and the priest stepped in right behind him to prepare the dying for the afterlife bcs they breathed the same infected air and handled the same fluid exposures, both professions caught the plague and died at insane rates, literally they were literally wiping out together......
Bureaucracy and the Bird Mask (17th Century)
Flash forward to 1619, and a French doctor named Charles de Lorme invents the famous leather suit with the beak-shaped bird mask 🙂↕️ and by this time the doctor and priest dynamic wasn't just about faith anymore... it was a highly regulated government control system
The doctor called the shots, Protected by his leather suit and beak mask, the doctor was the only one allowed to go in first. The priest had to wait outside at a safe distance until the doctor tapped the door with his wooden cane to give him the green light for last rites.
Shared paperwork, Since people were dropping dead in days, wills had to be written on the fly, the doctor (from a distance) certified that the dying person was still lucid, and the priest blessed the document, both had to sign together as official legal witnesses.
Counting the bodies, at the end of every day, the bird-masked doctor and the parish priest had to sit down and cross-reference their lists of the dead to make sure the government's body count was completely accurate.
I find it curious that Pantalone and Dottore are inspired by the two professions that irl helped each other in such a catastrophe
Pantalone's design evokes a high ranking Orthodox cleric with liturgical vestments and the Globus Cruciger constellation and its strong inspirations based on a real priest named Feofan Prokopovich, Dottore for his part, reinterprets the 17th century beaked mask and all his characterization linked to crows
aaaaa but it's not just that 👁️
The Clergy banks and economy
Although the Church declared greed a sin.... in the age of the plague, the clergy controlled the world's economy, Monasteries functioned as the first modern banks, lending to kings and insuring fortunes. When the plague struck, the fear of hell became a multimillion dollar financial business.... wealthy people paid fortunes in gold for "indulgences" (papers that bought their entry into heaven) furthermore, if a wealthy family died without heirs from the disease, the Church automatically inherited all their lands and palaces (lol rests in piss my granny she got hit by a-) while the people lay dying in the streets, the clergy accumulated capital and controlled the flow of money.
The Doctor alchemy and science
In those centuries, medicine was not separate from magic or alchemy, Plague doctors didn't know what caused the disease, so they experimented with the occult, searching for the "Elixir of Life" to become immune, their prescriptions were a bit...well hum.... they made the sick drink ground gold and used arsenic or mercury to try to "neutralize" the plague's poison, but the most disturbing thing was that, although the Church forbade opening corpses, considering it a horrific sin, these doctors secretly performed illegal autopsies in dark basements to study the anatomy of the dead.
In the end.... these two professions were two sides of the same coin........ Clergy controlled the economy while the Doctor controlled the bodies, ppl who perform religious functions suffered massive mortality during the Black Death (estimated at between 42% and 45%), this high death rate led to a severe shortage of priests and a crisis of faith that called into question the moral authority of the Church and forbidden science, churches and wealthy cities needed to pay these doctors fortunes so that the financial system wouldn't completely collapse due to a lack of workers and the Doctors were critical figures during the epidemics, most were junior physicians or young mens hired by cities to care for all citizens rich or poor, needed the clerical capital to finance their clandestine laboratories and potions, It was like a perfect and twisted alliance 🙂↕️ the economy provided the funds and science did the dirty work in the shadows.
(It's kinda funny that two minds abandoned by the world have inspirations based on two professions that helped humanity from a deadly disease lmaooooo I never fell for the Panttore/Dottolone retcon anyways)
SPOILER FOR LUNA II ARCHON QUEST. SCROLL PAST IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SPOILER.
The discourse around Rerir made me realize that it's not that Rerir's morally grey character is new in the game's story, it's that it's just how many world quest characters are written, only that Rerir (forgive me if I'm wrong) is the first kind of that character that is displayed in the AQ.
One could argue that Dottore, Raiden, Wanderer, and many more villainous characters are written like that as well... I concur with the argument actually. It's just... there's something about how damnably and awfully realistic Rerir's-- and by extension Tholindis-- action is? On how a 'nobody, common' person could be complicit with something incredibly awful?
I think Rerir and Tholindis' 'selfishness' is the point of the story. Wishing for a normal, unproblematic, unconcerned with society kind of life is something normal to do. Sometimes you just want to live your lane without society's bullshit breathing down your neck. Sometimes you only want mundane problems to be your only problems. As Rerir said it, they don't have grand ideas of 'saving the world' and such, they just want to live in peace.
However, because of their circumstances, Rerir and Tholindis's wish is selfish. Rerir was an orphan, groomed since childhood to be a disposable weapon for Irmin to get rid off a bloodline. He didn't enjoy it, true, but his wish for a normal life with Tholindis stopped him to rebel, because rebelling would risk ruining everything he had with her. He only wanted to marry Tholindis, but because of his existence as an assasin, this wish is a selfish one.
I see people argues that Tholindis is just as bad as Rerir. I see the point of their argument, seeing that she did kind of ignore the genocide against the Crimson Moon dynasty despite hailing from the bloodline too until it could personally affect her. I have an opinion that it's not entirely true; For one, Tholindis's situation is more precarious because she was the part of the hunted group and was one of the researchers in the Universitas Magistrorum. Hell, remember that the Magistrorum was chaired by Hroptatyr, the most favored sage of King Irmin. Being a member of an educational institution chaired by King Irmin's man means that her actions as a researcher was exposed to more scrutiny than an ordinary person, so if she did anything risky, the risk is greater for her because she could be ratted out by the Magistrorum.
Second, Tholindis did try. She tried. she helped the pink-haired girl to escape. But that's not all. Her opening a gate to the 'moon dimension' is her trying to help. Remember, while it was extremely brutal and vicious of King Irmin, his hunt for the Crimson Moon members wasn't entirely unfounded. They did have something special in their bloodline. Arlecchino, in her teenagehood and without the supervision of her bloodline's technique or training, managed to kill a harbinger 1 vs 1. Imagine an army of her. Once again, I'm not justifying King Irmin, it's just that the Crimson Moon bloodline does impose some risk. However, killing every members and even children is definetely not a sane option.
I think Tholindis understood this, so in a way, her researching the Crimson Moon and jumping into her reflection is her trying to find the root problem (as she perceived it) of its all; the Crimson Moon's power. Perhaps, she thought that if she could conquer it, the power that made her bloodline be hunted could cease to be, and King Irmin would leave them be. Of course, it's doubtful if King Irmin would stop even if the Crimson Moon's power cease to become a threat, but Tholindis believed that. She did say that she knew a way to stop 'all of this'.
In conclusion about their characters, I repeat once more that in my opinion, their selfishness is the point. Even a simple wish of a normal life is considered selfish if you live in tyranny because your very existence could support said tyranny.
Now I wish to move to other world quest characters who are written similarly with Rerir; a lot. Too many for me to list one by one😭 but I wish to talk about Rene and especially Och-Kan (surprise surprise. Who would have thought.)
There's a narrative reason why Sandrone retold us the Narzissenkreuz story in the epilogue; Rene is the antithesis of Rerir. Unlike Rerir, he wished not for a normal life; he wished to save the world. His dream grand, and instead of being a cog of the machine, he led and built that machine. Unlike Rerir, every actions that he took were made out of his pure free will; experimenting with his friend/coworker's body, building a cult, letting himself to be... uh, whatever entity he ended up to be, was the results of his own ambition to live up his wish to become a hero. In his childhood, he was often relegated into the 'evil dragon' role, so his yearning to become a hero bled into his later life.
But in the end, his wish was just as selfish as Rerir's. He fucked Fontaine's society and hurt his friends under the belief that he was the sole saviour of them all, not believing that other people could be of any help if not by acting as his tools and pawns. That's why Caterpillar called his motive as a 'mental illness' and Sandrone is so critical of him; his wish to save the world is selfish.
And there's Och-Kan. If there's any character who deserves to be under fiery scrutiny worse than Rerir, it should be him. Arguably, he was way worse than Rerir; he was King Irmin's equivalent. He was the top of the society, and he used his power to enact genocide against the previous ruling force (in this case, the dragons) even if the members he hunted had no link to their predecessors' sins. He did heinous acts to aid his goal; inhumane treatment of the workers who excavated the tunnel to Ixlel's place, with much of them, if hadn't driven insane with the eldritch aura or starved, were scorched by Och-Kan's turnfire; enacted military violence against his people; directly or indirectly involved in the death of his oppositors, like Lianca, Ahpub, and Ixquieh; and so much more.
And was what his goal again? Oh yeah, to 'save humanity'.
But then again... Och-Kan was frighteningly human, even with his heinousness. He wasn't treated humanely in his childhood and constantly suffered the Flamelord's Blessing. His wish was to become human, and he veiled it under his wish to save 'humanity', which I interpret as an idealized state of humanity, the one who accepted him and love him unconditionally.
Case in point, world quest characters are written the same as Rerir; terribly, awfully, horribly, human. They did their actions because they have a wish, be it a normal life, fulfilling a childhood dream, to have an unconditional acceptance by society... all human wishes that I believe almost everybody have in some points of our lives. Its just circumstances had made that their actions have far larger consequences than us, 'ordinary' humans.
Hmm... all this discussion makes me wonder if King Irmin was rather the same, especially with Rene and Och-Kan; he had good intention, or was under the delusion that he alone could save the world. From his name alone, it's implied that he had something to do with Irminsul, and who could say that he didn't saw the Irminsul's shenanigans, and the knowledge of all past civilizations and events erased from the world didn't drive him crazy? That it fueled his 'saviour complex', that 'I did what I did to save you all'?
Who knows. Let's see the future versions to see how long this would hold up.
I think some people couldn't stand that beyond their heinous actions, the 'villains'-- people they deemed evil-- have the same drive and wishes as us. They don't want to acknowledge that they're the same as us and that we have the capacity to become like them. They couldn't imagine that they could stand in the 'villains' shoes, so the 'villains' must be extremely evil, far removed than 'normal people' like us, or the other end, that they're 'good people', extolling, exagerrating or straight up made up their 'goodness' because their defenders couldn't stand that they too could be 'evil'.
Again, don't take it as justifications of what they've done. This is just a cent of mine in their discussion. Frankly, I enjoy the discourse because it opens you up to different perspectives and interpretations. I think my math teacher said it the best; since we couldn't live all lives, we consume books (or in our case, fiction) to live through the characters' shoes. Its to raise our understanding-- not necessarily sympathy, just understanding-- of why things happen and why certain people in the world act they way they act. It could serve as a warning, for us to not follow their examples and be better people, or a call to sympathy for people in their situation. Fiction is not a morality contest, it's just a tool for us to better understand the world.
Tl;dr: Rerir and Tholindis's 'selfishness' is the point. It's to showcase us how 'normality' could be a weapon in broken society like Khaenri'ah, because your very wish of a normal life could support the ill of society. Their character writing is reminiscent of world quests characters, who arguably are morally grey.
As a closing statement, first of all thank you @erikaslumbers for our discussion that fuelled my thinking about these characters (I love you so much twin🥰). And second of all, witness:
lohen constellation symbolism : an analysis + speculations
warning : this covers leaked info about lohen ! i am also not the person who’s usually diving deep into the lore , so please correct me if i’m wrong !
recently, info about new characters was leaked, including information about lohen. we saw his constellation, and i really want to talk about it!
lohen’s constellation is a hare with a sheild and a spear/dagger (?). you may find this familiar if you looked as medieval art. that’s because hares with weapons was a common theme in it!
the reason they were drawn this way, is because it’s sort of a caricature. hares may be pretty harmless irl, but the artists wanted to “switch things up” and portray them as vile creatures. there were multiple artworks of hares killing hunters and people in general. while them killing hunters is reasonable and can be considered revenge, them killing innocent people might be just for fun😭
that seems like lohen! of course, he doesn’t kill actual mondstadt citizens, but he’s a big fan of murdering every monster he sees with no particular reason. that’s not a bad thing, he’s protecting the city, but his motivation to go on a hilichurl killing spree might be just boredom or a desire to have fun.
i also will talk about hare symbolism in general. i will try to pick out fitting details. i am mostly gonna be referring to european folklore, since mondstadt is based on germany.
hares were often considered a bad omen, sometimes associated with witches. witches do exist in genshin, even in the knights of favonius, so lohen might have a connection to lisa or to the hexenzirkel. that’s especially fitting, because he’s releasing in the same update as nicole!
i wanted to mention the three hares motif, since it was apparent in many places, one of which was europe, but i can’t really find a connection here. the motif can represent the moon cycle, but lohen isn’t exactly related to nod-krai or kuutar. he was on an expedition there, but i don’t think there’s much more similarities.
i don’t have too much to say, but i hope you liked this small analysis! i really like lohen, and his symbolism is another interesting thing about him. if you have something to add, i would appreciate that!
If you examine notes and dialogs closely, you can notice changes in Zandik's personality
In Sumeru we can find a note about research team that was saved by Zandik, but Sohreh died. He suggested to take the Ruin Guard with them for researches (and it's logical for me. I mean, examination of enemy's weapon is useful), but was banned once again
And in last big Sumeru event we learn about Zandik's expedition. After some time, he found his companion useless and planned to leave him in ruins, but was tricked by Thoth.
But here's a thing. Zandik didn't leave his companion, even when he found out about Thoth's lie. Because as we could see in notes, they spent some time in ruins before leaving
What I'm trying to say.. We can literally see changes in Zandik. At first, he tried to help others, but received nothing, still being an outcast. And then, after expulsion from the Akademiya, he didn't see the point in helping anymore, but still decided to keep his companion alive
It's amazing that from small details you can tell about character a lot, I love it in Dottore's lore
[6.3 AQ] Analysis on Scara & His Connections with Dottore - List of Similarities/Differences, History, Ramblings & Theories at the end !!!
Hello!! Wanted to yap about Scara and his connections with Dottore + some other things about Scara!! Very Scara-centric. To Scara, Dottore was first a stranger whom he met without knowing, then a colleague/collaborator, whom he spent a lot of time with, and finally his final betrayal and arch-nemesis. (Definitely not mentioned everything in this post.. just some things my brain won’t shut up about after the Nod-Krai AQ! Might be a mess as I jump around with my thoughts gulp.. and I also might make some mistakes here and there! forgiveme….)
Let’s start off with some design and the false God aspect! As we found out in Nod-Krai, Scara was basically a prototype and test run for Dottore before getting his hands on divinity himself. The irony.. Scara being a prototype for someone again.
Some of the visuals, design, and attacks from Dottore’s boss fight really reminds me of Shouki no Kami, too!
Scara’s lines talking about Dottore and him being a new false God.. This all just really speaks for itself..
I’d also argue that achieving Godhood was mostly an idea planted by Dottore in Scara’s mind, and he went along with it because he believed it would be to his benefit–isn’t that ‘something he was made for’?
Next, something that is a similarity between them but it was caused by the perceived betrayal manipulated by Dottore, thus here they diverge. They are both ‘different’ from the rest of humanity in different senses. (However, as we’ve seen in the AQ, Scara sees himself as a real human now ;-; no different from a human!!!the development aaah!!) Dottore was rejected by fellow humans. Scara did believe (due to the lies) that he was rejected by his human friends, too, seeing him as an ‘abomination’. But this is not true as they have always seen him as a part of their community. Scara was accepted, Dottore was not–however, he made him believe he was ostracized, too. And it was so easy to manipulate and break someone who was already abandoned by his creator. His heart shattering..
When we think about Scara’s present self, he was accepted by the place Dottore was rejected–Sumeru. The Goddess of Wisdom herself took him in. The Akademiya praises him to the heavens for his papers in Vahumana, while Dottore was expelled. In his birthday letter, he complained about how popular he was with the other students, annoying him with celebrations (oh, how loved you are, Scara</3). Well, now that is another irony, but this time it stings for Dottore. It is also interesting how Nahida represented Scara’s backstory in the fairytale, implying that Dottore was ‘furious’ at the happy life he had in Tatarasuna. Could this be accurate portrayal of his feelings upon seeing Kabukimono? Nahida also mentioned he was carved from a 'white tree', and now we know for sure he was actually made from Irminsul.
In the end, their lives are similar, yet somewhat altered. Their stories seem to dance around each other. A very bitter dance, one which Dottore pulled Scara into.
Let’s rewind back to his Harbinger era. It was already seen in the artifact set Husk of Opulent Dreams how Scara mimicked a phrase (potentially even more than just that off-screen on different occasions) from Dottore–establishing the connection between them and the mold which Scara has found himself in.
‘He would only say in that tone of voice he had learned from a certain researcher:
“It was all just a little experiment into human nature.”’
The word ‘learned’ has that feeling to it that Dottore has taught him more than just a tone of voice and a few words. There are many things he could have learned from him.
When Scara first joined the Fatui, there is no doubt it was at his most vulnerable time as he went through so much, hardening himself after his experiences but still fragile enough. One of the first people who came up to him was none other than Dottore! As mentioned in Scara’s character story: ‘A stranger named The Doctor would welcome him warmly in this frigid northern land, inviting the Wanderer to be the key reference material in his experiments–his grand research project’. Key word: ‘warmly’. Could we deduce that he was treated the same way as Columbina in her character story? At first, he praised Columbina, but then it was not good enough. Columbina left him, but Scara stayed around as it was mutually beneficial. Columbina and Scara’s personalities also differ a lot. Everyone around Columbina expected something from her, while Scara wanted to be useful.
When Pierro recruited him he called him a ‘weapon, one that could be wielded with an iron will’, which seems to be something that Scara did like hearing. He wanted to be something useful, something with a purpose. Dottore and Fatui in general gave him that, as he was very useful to them–until he failed.
How did Dottore regard Scaramouche? Did he see him as a family, the same way he saw Columbina? We could say that maybe, at the beginning, if we take the fact he apparently welcomed him warmly into account (but this could very well and probably was just a manipulation–to appear kind at first). Or just a ‘like-minded’ individual? Or simply a test subject. We could see that there was a tension between the two even when they were working together. So we could say that the ‘warmth’ did not last for a long time.
At first when he arrived, he might have wanted to see Dottore as a friend, the same way Columbina did. Soon enough, he found out he only cared about his experiments. This did not scare him away as he did get what he wanted from him, too.
In addition, I also think due to his bitter feelings (portrayal from Nahida's fairytale) in Tatarasuna–Scara might have irritated him even more, which could also show through resentful behaviour, which means he might have even treated him worse than he would under normal circumstances? As Dottore said himself when Traveler called him ‘lying psychopath’ that his past self (the self during the Sumeru AQ) would have probably gotten even angry–so it would be safe to assume he might have reacted with negative emotions when it came to Scara. Yet, in Nod-Krai, Dottore seems to believe he is above such feelings now.
Noticing how Dottore has the same beliefs while talking to Traveler as Scara had about relationships. Transactional relationships–borrowing and giving back, mutual benefit.
(I would definitely not say he took all of his behaviour from Dottore, though!!! Even before meeting him in Snezhnaya, he was already hostile, bitter, and angry at the world. (cough.. though whose fault is the Tatarasuna incident.. cough) A little hints here and there. People around each other are bound to mimic one another.)
Hoyoverse clearly wants to point this out even more as it is finally more evident in the 6.3 update, where we can see more of the effect Dottore has left on Scara and his opinions through their shared history, company, and time.
The most obvious one is when Traveler points out that Dottore has said the same thing—directly pointing out their similarity to the players.
Spending decades around Dottore? That may need no comment. It is also very obvious they were close throughout these years as pointed out many times that Scara knows him very well, which is useful for their plans against Dottore in Nod-Krai.
Their closeness was evident from the very beginning as Dottore himself expressed disappointment at not being able to spend as much time as he used to after Scara kept being sent to the Abyss for exploration (probably way better for him than the experiments..).
This closeness is rather mostly physical proximity as (again) they do not seem to get along much from what we could see in Sumeru. However, even physical proximity creates some type of bond between individuals. For the better or worse.
The time he spent with Dottore had definitely shaped him into The Balladeer we’ve seen in the past, and it is so sweet to see him healing from these views. He seems much more open to friendships now, even spending time with other characters from Akademiya as said by Durin in his voiceline: ‘I've asked Hat Guy if they're his friends. He always complains about how noisy they are, but he's never denied their friendship.’ He does not seem to see relationships as only transactional like he used to. Yet, he is still hesitant and acts nonchalant as it could never be this easy to let his guard fully down. The ‘I care’ emote of Wanderer portrays that well, haha.
Scara pushing away Durin because he thinks it’s his fault the world is forgetting him? ;-;
‘"If you decide to plant your story here in this world, I suppose I'll have a small part in it. Just remember that part I played, and that'll be enough. That's my story, as far as you're concerned."
Hearing this, Durin fell silent for a long while. It was the first time he'd ever heard Hat Guy speak to anyone like that — in an encouraging tone, yet tinged with a faint trace of something that almost sounded like a plea.’
(not his exact words as this is the fairytale version but it reflects his mindset)
Not to mention, the way he trusted Traveler with his core (I could yap about his core, too–because ugh, that was his actual heart!! the visuals are heart-like, too!! he did not see it as a real heart and yet it was so important and fragile like a heart that the risk of dying could have been high!!! him being so resilient but take his core away and he is gone!!!!! But I won’t digress more..). The self-sacrifice and risk to stop Dottore in time. And also the trust in Durin and Albedo to watch over him. He does not trust easily, but when he does it feels so special and meaningful. He cares so dearly about his closest companions, and he always did. He just buried that part of himself. After all, one of the things he wanted was to be stripped away of his human emotions, showing just how much he felt and how much he wanted these feelings to stop.
Saving the Traveler from Dottore. It makes me think of how Dottore, once again, had someone close to Scara in his grasp with a potential of being harmed/manipulated by him, as were his friends in Tatarasuna. But he did not let Dottore win this time. In its way, saving Traveler from Dottore was a revenge on his own. Scara being the one to save them was so meaningful and important. For me, this scene was wonderfully done. So much development.
His core was the reason they were able to defeat him in time (and the calculations from Sandrone, of course). So, Scara did have a key role in defeating Dottore, one way or the other.
A thing I am curious to know about more is his Harbinger era. How was Scaramouche viewed by his fellow Harbingers? We know the Fatui soldiers and his subordinates did not like working under him as he had a disagreeable personality: ‘I've got no clue which of them I'll be under this time, but I'm just praying that it's not Lord Scaramouche’. It was also mentioned that he was ‘disliked by several of his fellow Harbinger’. Was Scaramouche viewed the same way as Dottore by Sandrone and Arlecchino? Probably, but I think here they may differ a little, as they were probably hated due to different things. Despite some similarities, their personalities may not be that similar (and Dottore kind of seemed annoyed by Scara himself during that one part lol).
There are just so many questions! I really wish we could find out more about his past life with Fatui. More flashbacks, more info, voicelines about him from other Harbingers (impossible ik!!!), or at least a bit of stories of his time there. Unfortunately, I do not think Hoyo will expand onto that more.
The new line said towards Arlecchino and Sandrone could imply he found much amusement from his colleagues during his time with them. Also, the teapot line about the Harbinger’s banquet. The conversation between him and Signora was filled with tension, but most Harbingers are behaving around each other this way. Lastly, in the Pale Flame artifact set he has also said: ‘"Since these mask-wearing people are so fun to be around..." "I think I'll become one of them."’ So it’d be safe to assume he also had some fun in his own way.
A bit of theorizing about the future: All of these things make me think that Hoyoverse plans an actual conclusion between both of these characters–they just seem to be too intertwined. What kind of conclusion? Revenge is an interesting theme, filled with so many ugly and hateful emotions. Yet, I do not think there could ever be a revenge where Scara simply kills Dottore and it’d solve everything because revenge never really fixes the past—just gives momentary relief. As we see at the end, even after Dottore is gone, Scara does not feel entirely fulfilled. This could be because Hoyo is hinting at Dottore’s return, and it just does not feel like he is really gone. Or the obvious thing, that Scara did not have the satisfaction of being the one to finish him. At the same time, it makes me wonder if even then, if he did finish him by his own hands—would he really feel concluded? Everything in his past still happened, even if Dottore is gone. Revenge often does not give the satisfaction one craves. This is a running theme in media and reality itself. An endless cycle of revenge and hatred is not something Scara needs.
There are many ways this storyline could go. Irminsul.. Personally, the worst thing I am fearing is that Scara ends up actually sacrificing himself to stop Dottore (if he comes back but I believe he definitely will(if not just end me for spouting nonsense)). This thought stems from the fact they relentlessly keep reminding us that Scara has accepted his death already–as in, it was always supposed to happen. Also Hoyo pointing out the fact he was made from Irminsul the whole time in Nod-Krai uhhh… yeah…
I’ve already seen some theories about these aspects plus the old leak from months ago about him becoming a hero….. and he is already a hero in Simulanka, which mirrors the real world (this could also just mean that he is a hero to Durin—saving, helping, and navigating him through life). Scara saying he is envious of Durin because not everyone gets a chance to be a hero? Durin telling him he will get his chance to strike back at fate? Hints.. I will be sick.
(technically, he was a hero in the AQ, when he saved the Traveler...and many other times he saved them..)
From what I’ve observed, most things said around Scara ends up being revisited later and actually happens.
However!!! I do not think they would kill him off haha.. they can’t do that….. Scara has too many storylines that could and should be explored. His origins in Inazuma, Khaenri’ah techniques, Raiden Gokaden, Scara perhaps meeting with the Traveler again in Snezhnaya, if they would need help with navigating around the Fatui (something I believed that could happen but as Traveler is already an ally with Arlecchino and Childe, plus only 4 Harbingers remain so might be not needed anymore…) Still, he knows the ins and outs of Snezhnaya and his anonymity is a huge advantage.
Who knows what his fate will be? The ties of name and fate, how will that affect him? At the moment, his only names are not really names: Wanderer, Hat Guy.. The name given to him Traveler would not affect his fate as they are a Descender. Ei has never given him a name in the first place.
That is all for now, but there is probably more I’d like to say and I'm also too tired to proofread um so I hope there are not too many mistakes... Scara makes me sick to my stomach in a very lovable but alarming way. Stop putting him into danger, Hoyo!!!!!!!
What are your thoughts on potential upcoming quests?
(crossposted this also on reddit if you've seen it there !!!)
Holy shit we actually got sovereign ruler lore!! SADLY veeery little on Ajaw and he felt incredibly underutilized but there is still plenty of substance in the quest to make me run around in circles, and oh my goodness the Kinich and Ajaw interactions? I loved it
I got so excited when they showed up with, their usual banter of course (totally kissed off screen btw)
I love it, it's hilarious, and then Ajaw just never talks after that
I didn't realize there would be an actual reason at the time, I was just constantly waiting for Ajaw to chime in with his insults or self praise😭 and there was nothinggg UNTIL
It was finally addressed!! How WEIRD Ajaw is acting, anddd we got a little scene with Kinich and Ajaw talking afterwards, aghh I have been WAITING for something like this!!
A look into their private conversations? Yes please
Oh he just hates being called out, also that is an extremely petty thing to ask lol
(Clock his shit Kinich🗣🗣)
Sadly for Ajaw he keeps a very close eye on what happens around him, and ESPECIALLY on Ajaw
Pulling out full ass receipts, Ajaw of course deflects and Kinich let's it pass
Well, for now XD apparently he just tortured Ajaw with Cacucu after quarantining him for days
Do not lie to your husband I guess lol or else you get punished, although I guess that would be like the only effective method to get anything out of him, he's extremely stubborn.
I loved learning more about the 13 Sovereigns and even getting personal in depth stories for the 8th and 11th, although we still have no confirmation on Ajaw's number yet I am always here to know more about the dragons
Actually finding out what exactly these dragons are are how they came to be was very interesting, they are actually a sort of AI creation
Damn! I just thought they were being trapped in virtual places or some shit but nope they are completely made with secret source technology, pretty cool
Knowing they had some serious intellect makes me all the more sad that Ajaw's memories were erased, locked away or even just faded, and I'm not even sure whether Ajaw realizes just how much he's forgotten
This line has got me between "he has forgotten enough that he's adjusted to believing what he does remember" and "he knows his memory is severely messed up and wondering whether he has mixed up/lost yet another memory"
I feel the second one is the most probable but I don't feel like I have enough information to truly tell what he would remember!
The entire cast fully believes he doesn't remember much at all but I'm still iffy
Even if he did remember, if he had fractured memories, he wouldn't say either
It's a miracle they were able to pry the fact that Ineffa was a sovereign from him at all, which also took quite a bit before they even got a hint
Ajaw is never personal so it's completely possible we'll never have him admit to anything
Even Kinich believes that Ajaw has almost no knowledge of his previous ruling
And if anyone knows Ajaw it's Kinich, he's around him allll the time and knows his behavioral patterns, it's also possible that there could be other things that tipped him off
Maybe even way back when he first met Ajaw, it's possible that he could notice quite a few more things pointing to Ajaw having memory problems and this would be the confirmation he needed
They may be crumbs but I am happy to actually have dialog with Ajaw that isn't comedic relief, I am torn between Ajaw never getting deeper lore or hoyo saving him for a future event😭 I really hope they're saving him for some bigger lore quests and not just leaving it up in the air because this is something I seriously want to know!! I love seeing everyone come up with different hcs, new ideas but oh my goodness do I want some sort of canon
Just to know would be enough because this is killing me💔
Another thing that I loved about the quest was just hearing the dragon lord talk, because my faaaavorite thing seeing in the dragon lords we have met is the way they talk
They're always rude as hell, occasionally arrogant and just know they're above you
Anddd the way they introduce themselves
I can see Ajaw remembers some of his iconic introduction but lacks his title and number
I couldn't say whether Ajaw would see benefit in keeping his real title hidden or proudly proclaim who he was even if he did remember
I'm leaning towards his memory fragmenting on important details while still remembering glimpses of his past, this lack of memory could be what's shielding him from feeling the shame of his failure as a dragonlord
Or maybe he's just way too proud to even consider his fellow dragonlords would out cast his name after he was sealed away, therefor the memories make no difference to him
It's mostly up to everyone's personal interpretation and headcanons
Anywho I'm all done thank you for attending my quick little ramble
my mom, that studied african religion for more than a decade and is part of umbanda, live reaction to ororon and iansan:
"I don't care if you make them white with blue eyes, at least study the gods you're basing them from!!!!"
im too afraid of twitter so imma post this here, but for short: the skin color is not the only problem! lol
i asked my mom who is very knowledgeable of the religion for her opinions and this is what we talked!! please don't take this post as an flawless analysis, you should also hear the opinions of people from umbanda, candomblé, and specially from nigeria. i'm mainly doing this because this religion barely gets any representation at all, so this will be the first time many people will be introduced to this culture and while i'm happy that it's included in a game that i play, it's important to recognize its shortcomings, anyway enough rambling!
for iansan, her character is based on iansã, the orixá (deity/god) of the winds and storms, she is seen as a warrior and is associated with the color red
she said that they easily could've given her buffalo horns on her mask, since iansã's animal is the buffalo (tho i know some people may think this is insensitive since yknow, giving one of the few dark-skinned charactes an animal skull doesn't look very good), the other thing she said is that they could've given her some braids in her hair, because in history thats what iansã and her army used to wear when they were going in combat (which was like, VERY on point??? i didnt tell her natlan was the nation of war beforehand)
other than that she didn't gave much imput, probably because her design does look like someone who fights
now, as for ororon... he is based on olorum, the orixá closest to a god/creator, and is commonly associated with...... the color white..... and one of his visual features is his staff
she said that they could've easily given him light hair/eyes, for her ororon doesn't seem to resemble olorum in the slightest, i also asked jokingly what she thought about him being a wolfboy and she said that it was fine lol
she asked me what power (vision/weapon) they gave to him and i said that i didn't know, but from the leaks they said that he's a bow character, and she immediately said that they made logunedé, in her words: "HE'S A HUNTER AND HE LOOKS A BIT SISSY, IT'S LOGUMEDÉ!"
logumedé is the son of the orixás oxóssi and oxum, he is a hunter like his father and takes care of his looks like his mother* (that's why she called him sissy LOL), his weapon is the bow, his colors are blue and yellow and he's associated with the animal peacock, which was what made my mom make that connection, ororon's scarf reminded her a lot of a peacock feather
*the word used here is vaidoso but... that doesn't exist in english lmao?? the closest we have is "vain" but vain is much more akin to superficial, which is not a synonymous of vaidoso, so yeah, weird translation quirk here, vaidoso means that you care of yourself/your looks because they are important to you
erhmmm anyway 1 like and i'll redesign them based on the actual orixás (/hj i still have artfight attacks to finish lmao)
