— The Himboification of Dick Grayson (and Why It’s Wrong)
Hey, everyone… wherever you are in the world. Welcome again to my blog. Today we’re going to discuss the himbofication of Dick Grayson and why it is - to put it plainly - character assassination.
Dick Grayson is a very beloved character. He is also, quite good looking. I won’t deny it. I am a sucker for black hair and blue eyes like the next girl. However, that’s not all he is and we get to see that in media like Young Justice.
The Motion Sensors: Titans erasure aside… what I loved about Young Justice was how competent Dick was yet how playful he was. Exhibit A: In season one of Young Justice, during the first episode also called “Fireworks,” Dick Grayson as Robin hacked the Cadmus security, prompting Mark Desmond to exclaims, “He hacked the motion sensors…” before the camera cuts to Dick confirming this by cheekily saying:
So, clearly he has skills. I honestly wish we saw more of this in comics. Crime fighting physically is cool and all but I’d love to see him use his brain and all that. My point is that just because he’s not as stoic as Bruce or as controlled, whatever… does not mean he isn’t smart or he doesn’t think. He does. I’ll even argue that he overthinks and I don’t blame him. He grew up under so much pressure to become Batman and he chose not to. He feels like he lets Bruce down in ways since Bruce isn’t always expressive of approval. That’s not to say I hate Bruce. I don’t. Batman will always be one of the greats but he does have his pitfalls in other areas because he’s only human.
Anyways, using Young Justice again because it’s easiest… in the episode where Bart Allen aka Impulse is introduced in season 2, episode 9, titled "Darkest", Dick, now Nightwing, was the one who eventually managed to catch and restrain the speedster.
The DNA Trap: Dick then offered Bart a glass of water, a subtle move to collect a DNA sample for identification. However, since Bart is quite literally from the future… he immediately caught on, laughing and said it was a "total Dick Grayson move". To save everyone the trouble, he ‘helpfully’ spits into the glass.
This shows that Dick is competent yet again because who could have thought of that? Not your ordinary Joe. That’s for sure. Also, I can imagine that catching a speedster of all things off guard is nearly impossible so he deserves his kuddos.
I wanted to keep this relatively brief as long posts can be a pain for me to write and for you to read, perhaps I could have included comic panels but this was easier since I’m still catching up. My point is… Dick is not your malewife nor is he a himbo. He is so much more than that. He can be charming, sarcastic, dorky, ridiculous and compassionate all at the same time but he is not stupid. I personally think his IQ would be above average.
Himbo narratives only push the idea that masculinity can only exist in one way which is not true at all. If we are going to argue against toxic masculinity, we need to be consistent. Just because Dick isn’t a stoic 24/7 machine, doesn’t mean he isn’t smart. Please stop fixating on his cheeks… love him for his mind. Take him as he is.
Hi everyone, my name is JoiningSaturn46, and this is the comic newcomers post! This is a post I've been thinking of making for a long time about how to get people into comics from square one. If you have never picked up or read a comic, this is for you. It's going to be a long one so strap in.
[Disclaimer: This post will mainly reference western superhero comics as those are what most people refer to as "comics," but independent comics still work under this framework.]
To start off, one needs to understand how comics are often sold and structured. While companies have many ways to sell you a comic, there are 3 main ways to collect physical comic books.
Single Issues/"Floppies" - These are the "chapters" of a comic. Single issues traditionally come out once a month and can range from $3 to $5. IMO, most people who want to get into comics should wait before going this route, as collecting issue by issue can add up quickly. If you do go this route, picking up a bag and board to store your issues is worth the small extra cost to keep them in good condition.
Trades/Volumes - These are multiple issues collected together into one "big" book. Trades will often collect a specific author's run or a storyline and are sold at major retailers and bookstores. In my experience, this is how most people get into comics, and IMO it is the best way to start. A trade gives you a full story so you can decide if you want to keep reading, and they are often the same price or slightly cheaper than buying all the issues separately. Trades come in softcover and hardcover editions. Softcovers are cheaper and easier to carry around. Hardcovers are more durable and often include extras like commentary or sketches, but they are pricier. Tie-in issues from other series are often included as well.
Omnibus - The biggest of the three. Omnis collect multiple story arcs or entire comic runs and can easily run $75 to $150+. You get the most content out of them, but most Omnis are hard to navigate and are pretty heavy. If you have the time and money, I would get one or two for specific runs you already know you love, but this is not a starting point.
A quick note on publishers: most people think of Marvel and DC when they think of comics, but there are tons of great independent publishers worth knowing about. Image Comics, Dark Horse, IDW, and BOOM! Studios have all put out fantastic books that are often a lot easier to jump into since they don't carry decades of continuity baggage.
Aside from the types of comics, there are two major places to get them: a major retailer and a dedicated comic shop. Comic shops get new issues on Wednesdays. Instead of searching the store repeatedly for what you want, you can create a "pull list" with the store, which reserves your issues ahead of time. This especially helps when you are collecting multiple books. The staff at a good comic shop are also usually very knowledgeable, so if you feel lost just ask. That is what they are there for.
For those who read digitally, there are several solid options. Comixology (now integrated into Amazon) is one of the biggest digital storefronts with a huge library across all publishers. Marvel Unlimited and DC Universe Infinite are subscription apps for the big two that give you access to a wide library for a monthly fee. For independent comics, GlobalComix is worth checking out, and Humble Bundle regularly puts out comic bundles at a steep discount. Personally, I would recommend reading on an iPad or tablet over a phone, but that is personal preference.
Most publishers will also put out comic solicits, which essentially preview all upcoming books, trades, and other releases ahead of time. If you want to know when a specific book or issue is coming out, keeping up with solicits is the best way to stay informed.
Now, let's say you don't have money but still want to get into comics. I can't tell you where to GetComics for free, but I would check the Internet Archive first, as hundreds of comics are posted there. Also, LIBRARIES. Seriously. You will be amazed at how many books your local library carries, and most can ship books in from other branches, too. On top of that, many libraries give you free access to Hoopla and Libby, which are digital apps with massive comic and graphic novel libraries. All you need is your library card. Do not sleep on this.
One more thing that stops a lot of people before they even start: continuity. Comics have decades of history and interconnected storylines, and it can feel overwhelming before you read a single page. Here is the thing: you do not need to read everything. Pick a character or story you are interested in and start there. You will not understand every reference right away, and that is fine. Be open to jumping in partway through and circle back later if you want more. The goal is to enjoy what you are reading, not to finish the entire Marvel or DC catalog.
So, where do I start? I would point to two things
The most recent origin story
The most recent Number 1 issue
These give you a clean entry point without requiring any prior knowledge. From there, reading guides exist for most major characters, and a quick Google search of "[character name] reading guide" will usually pull up a solid list with a clear order to follow. Do not worry about getting it perfect. And if you still feel stuck/overwhelmed, most comic fans are more than happy to point a newcomer in the right direction. Just ask.
A few more things worth knowing before you dive in. They may matter more once you're deeper into the hobby, but it's better to have them in your back pocket now
Crossover Events - Events like Secret Wars, Infinite Crisis, or Civil War are big storylines that bleed across multiple series at once and can involve a LOT of tie-in issues. You do not have to read all of them. Most events have a main series that tells the core story, and the tie-ins are supplemental. Read the main book, and grab a tie-in if it sounds interesting to you. If you are not sure where to start with a specific event, most have reading order lists online that cut through the noise quickly.
Variant Covers - If you walk into a shop and see five different covers for the same issue, do not panic. Variants are just alternate covers; the story inside is identical. They are cool to look at, but chasing them is a rabbit hole best saved for later.
Reboots and Renumbering - Marvel and DC do this constantly, and it confuses everyone, newcomers and veterans alike. A series can run 50 issues, relaunch at issue 1, run another 30, go back to the original numbering, and relaunch again. If you are searching for a series and the numbers seem off or there are multiple volume 1s, that is why. Always check which specific run is being recommended to you, because "Amazing Spider-Man issue 1" can mean several different things depending on the year.
Webcomics - A lot of people's first real comic experience these days is through Webtoon, Tapas, or a creator's own site, and that absolutely counts. Webcomics are more accessible since most are free and update regularly.
Comics can feel like a lot from the outside, but I promise the barrier to entry is lower than it seems. You do not need 80 years of history, you do not need to buy everything, and you do not need to start at the very beginning of anything. Pick a character you like, find a good starting point, and just read. It will not always click immediately, and that is okay. Every longtime fan has a stack of comics they bounced off of before finding the one that hooked them. Give yourself permission to try things, drop what is not working, and keep going until something sticks. If you have any questions, drop them in my inbox or in the reblogs. I am always happy to help someone find their way in.
Welcome to the world of comics, hope you enjoy the ride!
It's been a few years but I'm wanting to get back into DC. What have I missed?
If someone could let me know of any must read arcs from the last 5 to 10 years (my readership was pretty spotty for about a decade but completely dropped off about 5 years ago) or even short runs and exciting moments - please let me know! Especially if you have somewhere free to read them as it's gonna cost a small fortune to get caught up.
I mostly read Batman, Batman & Robin, Detective comics and other batfamily stories (my reading of RHATO was especially spotty because Lobdell's writing of Jason had a tendency to PMO but I know there were a few good issues here and there) although I am open to expanding my horizons a bit. I'm generally fairly familiar with most heroes and open to anything
I'm particularly a sucker for angst and drama (which is why Jason and Damian are my favourite Robins if I'm being honest with myself - they're much bigger drama queens compared to their much more reasonable and stable brothers - not that they don't have their moments) so anything that has interpersonal conflict I'm bound to eat right up (especially Bruce Wayne being a complete ass - I love the man but the way he completely blows up his relationships is so entertaining)
So yeah any recs would be appreciated!
Same goes for any fanfic recs you might have! (not much of a shipper in this fandom so gen is preferred)
as someone who knows nothing about dc/batfam besides bare basics where do I even start with the comics? please send help its so confusing and sm to go through 😭🧎♀️
help has arrived!! my sincerest apologies for the delay, i started writing and somehow 2.5 days had passed.
full transparency, for a second i was like, "oh idk if i'm the best person to ask, i haven't been reading comics for years" and then i realized i figured my way into comics with like essentially zero prior experience so maybe i am uniquely qualified to help! that being said, if this doesn't work or you see a post from a comic veteran that looks more helpful, by all means ignore me.
first things first- it is super confusing!! there's all these big events, DC is obsessed with the word "Crisis", some labels are mainline and others aren't- don't worry about any of that. ignore the vast forest that is Comics and focus on one tree.
and by that i mean, pick one character to start with.
this post ended up turning into a behemoth when i wasn't looking so everything else is going to go under the cut!
alright, now that you have your character of choice, it's time to choose which era of comics you want to start in. there are basically 4 different eras, and you may have heard their names tossed around.
PRE-CRISIS: this is where Comics begin. this era covers comics from when they began being published up until 1985. most of this is no longer canon, but like when they hit the reboot button in '85, they didn't restart from the very beginning. so like, 90% of robin!dick comics is Pre-Crisis. some comics kept a few Pre-Crisis storylines canon, like The New Teen Titans starts before the reboot, but the pre-boot storylines are still canon. i personally have not read very many Pre-Crisis comics, i cherry-picked what looked interesting to me. unless you want to like dive in chronologically and begin at the Beginning, i wouldn't recommend hopping in here bc you'll probably get super fatigued, but yk, it is ultimately up to you. most important takeaway here is that whenever people mention Pre-Crisis, they mean old comics.
POST-CRISIS: 1985-2011. this is where most comics veterans started reading comics/what they grew up with. these are the comics that a decent amount of current comics writers/artists grew up reading/what got them into comics. there is a lot of love + nostalgia for this era, with good reason!! i do think some people who favor this era have a tendency to be close-minded in regards to current comics but re:nostalgia and there have been some dumb decisions so i get it!
NEW 52: aka, Post-Flashpoint, N52. 2011-2016 dc gets new management. they more or less decided to toss all pre-existing canon out the window and re-start in the middle. honestly, it was like they just started making fanfiction. and i don't mean that negatively, i mean like, even though they "restarted" and "anyone" should be able to jump in on an #1 in n52...the comics still assumed you had some working knowledge about the characters. which. i mean, i understand that a total restart was not plausible, (lmao imagine just snapping the vast majority of characters out of existence. they did snap some but like, a full restart would have axed even Dick technically.) i started reading comics here bc when i asked my brother-in-law (who grew up reading comics, with a dad who grew up reading comics), he was like, "omg!! start here, it'll be perfect!!" and i was like "okay!!" and then...i found myself googling. a lot. which is fine!! but idk maybe not as beginner-friendly as advertised? also, notice how this era only lasts for 4 years. it's not that none of it is relevant now, but it was a) not very well received, and b) while some of it is def still canon/referenced, a lot of it contradicts with Post-Crisis, and our fourth and final era reboots so that most of Post-Crisis is canon again. you will see a lot of hatred/dislike for comics in this era/concepts introduced here.
REBIRTH: 2016-present day. DC decided to rollback their extreme changes and soft-reboot to basically try and meld Post-Crisis and N52 timelines/continuities into one cohesive continuity. which. is a lil like trying to mix oil and water, but it is an improvement imo. all the runs restart at #1.
other people might disagree with me, but i honestly don't think it matters which era you start with. unless you start from the very beginning, you're going to have some questions. if you start in Post-Crisis, you're going to have questions when you get to N52/Rebirth, and vice-versa. and that's okay!! don't be ever be embarrased/discouraged because you have a question. google is your friend. also, odds are, if you end up enjoying comics, you'll read from all the eras. timelines will always be confusing. if you read arcs/events out of order, you'll sort stuff out. as long as you're reading what sounds interesting, you can't really go wrong. you might laugh at your decisions later, but that's okay!!
for example, personal experience, this was my intro reading order: N52 Nightwing, A Death in the Family (Post-Crisis), Under the Red Hood (Post-Crisis), Joker War (Rebirth), Robin 1994 (Post-Crisis) until like issue #11?, Rebirth Nightwing to most current release, back to Robin 1994.
clearly, I had no clue what the hell i was doing from one perspective. but in the moment, i was having a grand ole time. i read N52 Nightwing, had my mind blown at the existence of FOUR Robins, couldn't believe they KILLED one, had to see that for myself, then i had to see how his return played out, and when I was buying the UTRH trade the Joker War trade had a lil rec note from an employee, i flipped through it, thought the art was sick, was confused AF when i read it but googled for some clarity and just rolled it with it, thought Tim was neat, decided to check him out, had a rough time adjusting to the older art style, bounced back to modern comics with Dick, and then ultimately decided I could handle the art change (which, ngl, very useful skill for comics reading) and the rest is history.
even once i got more well-versed in comics, sometimes i knowingly read out of order because i just wanted to see a specific event and didn't feel like reading a ton of comics to get there. legit, read City of Bane, did not understand why Dick was not there but just accepted it and then months later was like OH!! HE WAS RIC THEN.
point is, if you're having fun, you're not making mistakes imo. am i going to recommend anyone follow my initial reading path to the T? no way!! but it worked for me.
but okay! so now, you've got your character and your era, and surprisingly the rest is really simple!! i have compiled a list for you that attempts to cover the trickier batfam entry points, but for almost any character the hopping on point is literally whichever run they're lead in: #1. for some, as you'll see with Batman, it won't be #1 in Post-Crisis but you can google, "where to start reading Action Comics Post-Crisis" and there you go. If there is a #0 issue, I would personally not recommend starting there, I would still start with #1 and then read the #0 issue when it would've come out, so like if it came out after #10, read it then. oh also, i'm sorry, i cannot offer personalized help with Barbara Gordon/Babs/Batgirl No. 1/Oracle, as of rn, i have only read her when she shows up in events/other people's runs. my best guess would be Batgirl/Bird of Prey.
now, before we get to the lists, may i present you with
MISCELLANEOUS ADVICE
there are a handful of mindsets that i think will be super helpful for breaking into comics, but the most important, especially starting out, is to make sure you're reading what interests you and that you're having fun. you can worry about slogging through significant runs later, once you've cut your teeth a bit, or never.
i would honestly ignore "best of/top rec" lists. most of those are made up of comics that hit bc they're building on a foundation. if you're brand-new, you don't have a foundation. focus on that first, rather than reading the "right" runs. comic readers, veterans and casuals and newbies- they do not all agree on what the "right" runs are. and that's bc there are so many different writers/artists. bookmark these for later, when you feel more solid in your understanding of the character and maybe want to experiment.
characters, imo, can totally be written OOC. but one of the really beautiful things about comics in my experience is that getting to see characters written by different writers really adds so much depth and dimension to them, bc diff writers are going to have different angles they want to explore. will you like all these different angles? probably not! but that's okay. you'll develop your own taste for which stories you like/what takes resonate with you the most. sometimes you might find yourself in agreement with the popular opinion, other times you might find that you loved something it seems a lot of people hate. great! there is no test, you'll like what you like and that will be perfectly valid even if no else agrees.
with that in mind, be open-minded. adjusting to older art styles can be really hard! that's totally valid! but if you try it out here and there, you'll probably be able to get used to it. you're not always going to love the art in any era. sometimes not even in the same run. i think acknowledging that you dislike it is better than trying to force yourself to like it. my rule of thumb was, if i didn't like the art style, give it 3 comics. bc by then, i'd either adjust to it (which is not the same as liking it)/or get sucked into the story and not care so much, or i would know, yeah this really isn't working for me. and then i had a decision to make: power through or drop it. sometimes you can knuckle down. other times, i've found that giving myself a break and returning to a difficult comic once i've recharged is better.
mostly the same advice for writers. although, i have learned that just because i dislike an author in X run, doesn't mean i'll dislike them in Y run, or even in the next arc they write in X run. as you go through comics, keep in mind that most storylines within a run are six issue arcs. if you're not vibing with the current arc, try skipping ahead to the next one. skimming is okay. obvs, yk, don't skim every comic you read, but if you find yourself not super interested, but feeling like there's some important stuff so you don't want to have to backtrack later, skim. again, the goal is to have fun!
other things that might trip you up-
terminology: wtf is a volume anyways?
i'm so glad you asked!! answer: it depends. so okay, if like you google a reading order list, you might see Batman (Vol. 1) #1-100, or something like that. in this case a volume is a whole entire run from start to finish. Batman Vol 1, in this example, would be synonymous with Batman (1937-2011), which includes both Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis.
however, if you're looking at collected editions, or trades, a volume will be more like a volume of manga, where volume refers to that set of issues.
trades: this is when the publisher collects a run or event into a book that would be sold somewhere like Barnes & Noble, it can be hardback or paperback. single issues are not trades.
events: these are crossover storylines! sometimes they cross houses, so you could have issues from Batman and say, Green Lantern, but usually they're contained within a house. events that effect the whole universe are usually their own "run", like Infinite Crisis had tie-in issues from most (all) on-goings, but the core issues were Infinite Crisis #1, and so on. they range widely in scale, clearly.
on-goings: can refer to currently running comics, for example rn, Zdarsky's Batman and Tom Taylor's Nightwing are on-goings. Jason and Tim are not leading any on-goings rn. or, it can be used to refer to comics that were on-going at the time of whatever is being discussed.
variant: this has nothing to do with the comics content itself, it relates purely to the covers. most current comics have their standard cover, and then a variant or two or four. any ratio, so for instance 1:25 variant, just means that for every 25 standard copies, there is 1 of that variant. that kind of variant is usually a store incentive, so that they'll buy a certain amount of copies to sell. not all variants are rare though!
facsimile: this is when they reprint an old comic. not as a trade, just as single issue.
black label/elseworld: these are comics that are published by DC, but not part of the mainline comics' canon continuity. sometimes they'll sort of fold in black label stuff, but like, it's essentially licensed fanfic.
events: ahh!! the last page says the story continues in a different run!!
2 options:
1) ignore it, stay in your run. there'll be a couple gaps but you'll live, and google is free.
2) google "event-name-here reading order". this will give you lists that will tell you which comics to read in which order. sometimes the order they came out in is not the best reading order. some events flow better than others. also, there will be "core" issues and "tie-ins". core issues are the Main Storyline, not skippable, (if you don't want to be confused). tie-ins are character-specific, so important for that character but if you don't care about them, those issues will be skippable.
there is no wrong choice. you can change your mind, decide you want to read the event, or lose interest in the event and stick with your current run.
concurrent runs: what should you do if there are multiple runs you want to read that came out at the same time while they were being published?
again, two options.
1) read them in the order they were released. the easiest way to do this is to read month by month, so read all the issues that came out in May of X year, then June, so forth. you'll basically be simulating keeping up with current comics as they release.
2) pick a title, read it to the end, start the next one. this will have you essentially cycling through the same period from start to finish a few times, but honestly there's a lot going on in comics and outside of events where they cross-over, there isn't too much overlap, so it doesn't feel super repetitive. at least to me. plus, if you've read the event, you don't need to re-read it every time you hit it, imo. this is how i do it actually. i mean, current comics, i read the runs i'm following as they release, but for backlog, i stick to one title at a time. if i'm feeling fancy, i might read one run up to a certain point, then switch titles, then switch back, but i am max switching between 2. an example of this is actually what i'm doing rn. i read batgirl 2000 up to issue #11 (or 12?) and then switched to Batman: Gotham Knights, which is what I'm currently reading. why? B:GK starts after B2000, and i couldn't pick, so i split the difference and went semi-chronological.
finally, there's no pressure. by which i mean, you don't need to speed run. especially if you don't have a ton of free time, don't worry about being the most efficient reader, always reading runs that'll give you the most bang for your buck according to other people, etc. i mean also, there is just. so. much. content. you cannot sprint your way through, this is a marathon at best, a leisurely jog, ideally.
looking at the sheer amount of content out there was super overwhelming to me, even though i wanted to read it. it's not a quick task, so it felt impossible. like even if i finished one run, well, that was just a drop in the bucket, i'd made barely any progress in the grand scheme of things. that was paralyzing.
i ended up mocking up a list for myself of what i thought of as "key" runs. this was still an ambitious list, but like tailored to my interests. as i read/saw posts, if a title not on this list sounded interesting, i stuck it on my tbrl list. (to be read later). that was essentially me going, 'hey, this looks interesting, but my plate is full rn, so i'll save it for later.' i didn't add runs from my tbrl to my key list as i went, i focused on working through my keys first.
within my keys, i just bounced all over the place. the order made sense to me, lmao, and probably no one else. it was a very loose, "follow this character chronologically". except for dick i read him all wonky, mainly bc i started with N52, skipped some N52 to get to Rebirth, skipped some Rebirth (*cough* Ric era *cough*), switched characters, then came back to Dick, bounced to NTT, practically bounced right back off it bc the transistion from modern to 80's comic was ROUGH, went and Grayson (N52), forced myself to adjust to older comics, then went through chronologically until i hit dick!bats era bc i'd read a solid chunk of it between reading for Tim and Damian. i share all this only to say, you can read however, it'll work out.
if you're curious, it took me six months to read my whole "key" list. almost to the day, funnily enough. i don't remember the exact number, but i think it was like north of 700+ comics at least? tbh, i didn't feel like i'd read all that many comics but based off some conversations i've had, maybe it is? i have no frame of reference. operating under the assumption that that is a lot of comics, i feel like it's important that you know a) i have a ton of free time, and b) i read very fast.
set zero expectations for yourself time-wise. it's not a race, no one is judging you. don't be an idiot like me and try to calculate how long it will take you to read X amount of comics either, okay HAHA. context: when i started Robin 1993, the fact that it was 195 issues was massively intimidating. the longest run i'd read so far was 30. i averaged out my comics per day, lowballed to give myself breathing room and nearly cried bc it was going to take me 20 days (3 whole weeks!!!) to read the whole thing and that felt like an eternity. i ended up reading it in 5 days. (i was HOOKED.) on the complete opposite end of things, i started Batman: Gotham Knights...a month ago? maybe two. i'm still on #18, bc life got busy.
bottom line, you've no real idea how long it will take you to read anything, let alone your whole wish list, and it really doesn't matter how long it takes you, as long as, say it with me, you're having fun!!
god i feel annoying.
okie dokie!! i think that covers all the dilemmas i remember having, but if i missed anything, feel free to send in another ask!
BRUCE WAYNE:
Post-Crisis only bc everywhere else is just #1
Batman 1940 #404
Detective Comics 1937 #568.
DICK GRAYSON:
Dick's og robin days are allllll Pre-Crisis. i'm not sure which issues he comes in tbh. if you don't read want to start in Pre-Crisis, (valid, wise imo), most robin!Dick content is going to come from flashback storylines. but there are some robin!Dick comics that are solid, contained stories that are not Pre-crisis. not an exhaustive list but:
Robin: Year One
Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet
Batman- One Bad Day: Mr. Freeze
and then for Dick as Nightwing, it's a lil tricky bc technically that starts in The New Teen Titans 1980. You could start at #1, or #42, which is the Judas Contract storyline where Nightwing debuts. (The title's name switches to Tales of the Teen Titans, it's the same run.)
However, if you're not interested in reading a team book, valid, then you have:
Nightwing 1995 (technically comes before the main run, this was a 4 issue prequel mini)
Nightwing 1996, start at #1. Now, if you stick with this run, there are 2 stories that are part of it but were done separately as minis so for whatever reason, on DCUI at least, they're not in the order, but you'd read Nightwing/Huntress after Nightwing #18, and then Nightwing: The Target after Nightwing #60 i believe.
Or, Nightwing: Year One. This is part of the Nightwing 1996 run, but has been collected separately, so you could start here, i suppose.
JASON TODD
okay so technically, he does not lead a title until N52. but obvs, he has relevant comics before that.
i would not personally recommend starting with UTRH. like, if that's what you want to read, valid, do what you want. but also, if you're willing to read 9-23 comics beforehand, i truly think you will appreciate/enjoy UTRH way more. bc like they just make the overall drama/angst that much more, yk? like okay if UTRH is chicken breast, you could just cook it as is and eat it. but unseasoned chicken just does not hit the way it could. add a lil salt + pepper, bam, big diff. add some legit seasoning?! now you're cooking. does that make sense?
actually okay hmm. i loathe to be prescriptive and give orders, but here, i'll lay out what i consider to be the Bare Minimum (salt and pepper) + the Crash Course (legit seasoning). no wrong choice!
Bare Minimum (9 Comics before you read UTRH):
A Death in the Family
A Lonely Place of Dying
Crash Course (23 Comics before you read UTRH):
Batman #408- 409
Detective Comics #569-571, 573-574
Batman #416, 424-425
A Death in the Family
New Teen Titans #55
A Lonely Place of Dying
Batman: Gotham Knights #43-45 (45 is the important one imo, but like it will make a lil more sense if you start at 43)
if you want to read the entirety of his og run as Robin, that would be Batman #408-425, and Detective Comics #568-#582. if you want like a whole ass breakdown of all his appearances in chronological order, check this godsend of a resource out.
and again, not to tell you what to do, but New52 Red Hood and the Outlaws is um. i'll be nice. i did not enjoy it. is it worth reading if you love Jason? honestly yeah. but i wouldn't start there, that's all i'm saying.
CASSANDRA CAIN:
Very simple!! She first appears in Batman, during the No Man's Land arc, so her issues there would be Batman #567-569, and then Batgirl 2000.
she gets deleted in the New 52 launch, (boo tomato, tomato), and isn't brought back until Batman and Robin: Eternal. then she co-lead a recent (Rebirth) Batgirls run with Steph. lots going on in B&R:E, would not recommend as a starting point.
TIM DRAKE:
Alright, honestly, with Tim all your best jumping on points are Post-Crisis. N52 Teen Titans is whack, I have yet to revisit it and power through, and if you've seen my other rec list, yk I'm not a fan of any modern runs he's lead, so i cannot in good conscience, rec those as starting points. Detective Comics Rebirth, i've heard, is solid, but a) i still haven't read it yet unfortunately, and b) he like dies. "dies". not very far in. and then, consequentially, is not present for a hot minute. so.
but anyways! you do have options in Post-Crisis!!
A Lonely Place of Dying. his intro!!
his official like debut as Robin is Batman #457, but he is in Batman comics that take place between aLPoD and #457.
Robin 1991. this is the first of 3 mini-series that take place before Tim's main run. i accidentally skipped them bc i didn't know they existed whoops
Robin 1993. his main run! the longest Robin title to run so far.
technically, Young Justice 1998 is also an option, if you're interested in the team. I started reading this after Robin #120, read the whole run, then went back to Robin. see advice on concurrent runs below.
Stephanie Brown:
tbh, not a great starting character. not because she isn't great!! she's just very much so a side character until she gets her own run, Batgirl 2009, but there is so much going on in that time-period (Bruce is dead, Dick is Batman, etc.), that like it's not super beginner friendly imo. and then they delete her when they do New 52, she gets brought back in Batman Eternal if i'm remembering correctly? And then she and Cass lead a recent (Rebirth) Batgirls run.
ik her first appearance is in Batman, although i don't know exactly which issue. she's in Robin 1993 a lot, ofc. she's also in Batgirl 2000 here and there. basically, you'll have to do some hunting and moving around if you just want to follow Steph. i do not know those issues by heart, someone somewhere has probably listed them. re: google is your friend!!
Duke Thomas:
okay so. ik he first appears at some point in the N52 Batman run, don't know the exact issue, but i'm pretty positive it's an event of some kind, could be wrong. then he is the main in a team book, We Are Robin. then i think he's a side character in Batman/Detective Comics mainly? he has a mini-series, Batman and The Signal.
i have not read his first appearance yet, i have read We Are Robin. i hesitate to say that he's not a great character to start with bc i'm pretty sure DC created him to like attract new readers, which should imply that he's a good starting character?? but like stuff is weiiiird where he comes in, Bruce is not Batman bc he doesn't have his memories (idk why yet, haven't read yet), Jim Gordon is Robo-Batman- weird. very confusing place to start, i would imagine. which is a bummer bc like, Duke is fantastic. love him. cannot wait to read more. unfortunately, there are just some characters who's existence necessitates a lot of context. i like to think they're worth the wait, though!
Damian Wayne:
he is the trickiest to hop in on imo, out of the "main" members. he is also a character who's existence necessitates context. you can def crash course him though, to an extent. honestly, with any characters that came in towards the end of Post-Crisis or later, being okay with confusion is like extra important, if you want to start with them.
2/3 of Damian's first 3 major appearances are events. i read Dami later on in my comics journey, so by then i was like, pshh, event nbd. i also read him chronologically, so i could be biased, but i do think that is best. however, yk, go for what interests you.
Post Crisis:
Batman #655-658, then The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, then Battle for the Cowl.
Batman and Robin: Batman Reborn. Dick!Bats + officially Robin Damian
New 52:
Batman and Robin. He's going to die. He will be resurrected. Then, Robin: Son of Batman.
Rebirth:
Super Sons
Robin
ofc, this doesn't cover everyone, but i hope this is enough to get you started!! i realize that this is long-ass post, i'm sorry i couldn't be more concise. i sincerely hope this was helpful/made stuff less intimidating, and if i failed in that regard, i'm so sorry.
i hope you have so much fun!! my ask box will always be open, and so are my dms if you have any more questions or want to freak out about comics :)
Getting into DC Batfam comics and fan culture is such Rollercoaster. I've read 1000 comics in the last month. Every single one has a different characterization of my favorite character. All the fan works try to turn my favorite asshole into a baby girl. My favorite series is considered one of the worst comics ever. All the fans hate the comics. Fans are pleading with people to read the comics. The batfam is unhealthy and that's Bad(tm). The batfam is healthy and that's BORING. Every romantic pairing is problematic. Every romantic pairing is bad except this one fan's take because they have only correct take ever. Everyone is angry all the time. There are reading lists that leave out half of the main characters appearances. There are reading lists that include every appearance in every comic even if it's just a single panel. I love every story I read. I hate every story I read. I switch between Canon and fanon content intermittently because at this point everything I read I just assume is an AU of everything else.
Makes the experience a lot less frustrating actually.
