#got s8 speculation

[mebongster87]

The real villains and the real heroes of Season 8: predictions and foreshadowings

Back when the character posters for Season 8 was released, a few folks in the JonSa fandom speculated about how Daenerys, Euron Greyjoy, and the Night King, were shown to be seated on the Iron Throne with the Stanley Kubrick glare. Here are the pictures of what I am talking about. 

Kubrick stare is a typical characterising feature of villainy. Given that Euron Greyjoy, Daenerys Stormborn, and the Night King all sport this, it is safe to say that Team Storm are the main villains. 

The Crypts of Winterfell teaser provided us the real heroes of this season and they are these three:

Jon Snow, Sansa Stark, and Arya Stark, poised to face the threats of Ice and Fire with their best weapons, and are the real heroes of Season 8 and the story at large.

Longclaw for Jon, Sansa has her wits and charm, intelligence, and realpolitik, I mean I could go on but you get the point. Last but not the least, Arya Stark, newly minted Night King Slayer, with her Valyrian steel dagger, with which she killed the NK and Needle.

Thanks to Arya being the NK Slayer, this picture makes a whole lot of sense now and I believe we will have Jon and Sansa take down the other two villains in the story. 3 villains vs 3 heroes.

Daenerys Stormborn:

The show actually teased that Jon and Sansa will stand against Daenerys Stormborn back in Season 6.

The S06E09 Battle of the Bastards Inside the Episode commentary by David Benioff, where he says:

“If you are one of the Lords of Westeros or one of her potential opponents in the wars to come, and you get word of what happened here in Meereen, you have to be pretty nervous because this is an unprecedented threat. You’ve got a woman who has somehow formed an alliance where she’s got a Dothraki horde, a legion of Unsullied, she’s got the mercenary army of the Second Sons, and she’s got three dragons, who are now pretty close to full-grown. So if she can make it all the way across the Narrow Sea and get to Westeros, who’s gonna stand in her way?”

over shots of Daenerys about to destroy Meereen and burning people, is immediately followed by this shot of Sansa and Jon, from the tent scene, prior to Battle of Bastards, where they discuss how to defeat Ramsay (another villain).

Sneaky.

In Season 8 so far, we have seen Sansa go toe-to-toe with Daenerys, either by making her displeasure known in feeding the “greatest army the world has ever seen” with the limited food and resources that Sansa has managed to gather for the North, or derisively asking “what do dragons eat anyway” or outright defying Daenerys in Jamie’s trial. I do not see this abating in the upcoming episodes. Sansa knows that the Dragon Queen is a threat to her home, her family, and the entire North and she will be using her smarts and political prowess to outplay Daenerys.

Jon, on the other hand, will be the one to go fight Daenerys in a Dance of the Dragons 2.0. Whether Jon kills Daenerys remains to be seen. The show has buried enough clues to allude to this happening. I have written about it here and here and I think there is a strong possibility that Jon kills Daenerys, irrespective of your beliefs in those alleged leaks. 

In fact, these lines from ADWD, Jon XII, may have foreshadowed this:

Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. 

"Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. 

Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared. The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Then a gnarled hand seized Jon roughly by the shoulder. He whirled …… and woke with a raven pecking at his chest. 

Here we have Jon armored in black ice, which is very reminiscent of Daenerys’ dream from ASOS, Daenerys III:

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

Jon kills Ygritte, a love interest, and Robb, his kin/cousin within the same dream. Daenerys is both a love interest and his kin/aunt. 

Jon has also been referred to as the “shifting shadow” from Daenerys’s chapters...ASOS, Daenerys II.

“Sometimes she would close her eyes and dream of him, but it was never Jorah Mormont she dreamed of; her lover was always younger and more comely, though his face remained a shifting shadow.“

Melisandre in her visions sees Jon as a shifting shadow as well:

“The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again.”

-ADWD, Melisandre I.

What’s interesting is that the show actually uses a “shadow” to allude to Jon.

Notice the focus on the shadow of Jon, right before he goes to behead Janos Slynt, someone who betrayed Ned Stark and was an enemy to House Stark. And dare I say, this reminds me of the shadow of Jamie from Bran’s visions right before he shoves the sword in the back of the Mad King Aerys. 

Since Jon and Jamie are foils, Jon could end the story as a kinslayer and Queenslayer, just as Jamie started the story as the Kingslayer. We shall see whether it does come to pass or not. Additionally, Jon has refused to kill a woman twice before (Ygritte and Melisandre), maybe he ends up having to kill a woman this third time. Notably, Ygritte was a love interest, Melisandre tried seducing Jon, and now he is in a relationship with Daenerys.   

Euron Greyjoy:

I would’ve loved for Theon to be the one to take down Euron but since he is dead, someone else will have to step up to bring this guy down.

Could Jon be the one? Or Arya?Or Yara?

Since both Euron and Daenerys have been associated with “Storm”, here are some clues that I found that I thought were interesting.

This next part is just wild speculation on my part. 

Euron is introduced to us in S06E02 Home, where he kills his brother and King Balon Greyjoy and these are some of the things he says...

And this is what Jon says before he gets crowned KITN in S06E10 The Winds of Winter...

Littlefinger needles him in the crypts before Jon leaves for Dragonstone in S07E02 Stormborn and says this...

While Daenerys Stormborn has been associated with storms, Euron has been called the Storm and in this same episode called Stormborn, we see both Daenerys and Euron but not the Night King. Interesting don’t you think?

In fact, LF’s line could be applicable to Jon being the last best hope against either or both of these two “Storms”. 

In fact, I think we may get a Daenerys Stormborn and Euron Greyjoy “Storm-Storm” alliance mainly because of this throwaway line from Yara while she is captive in the Silence at KL in S08E01...

to which Euron replies:

Now on the surface, this may seem that Yara, an ally of Daenerys is confident of Daenerys’s win over Cersei and Euron, who are current allies. To which Euron talks about sailing his fleet elsewhere??To Dragonstone maybe??? I believe the show is cluing us to the fact that Euron could possibly switch camps. I mean he is wild, unpredictable and who knows what his next move is?? However, he wants to marry the most beautiful woman in the world and just wants to side with the winning team.

In the promo for Episode 4, we see Euron going down on his knees and looks like he is proposing Cersei. If Cersei rejects his proposal, maybe he will switch sides over to Daenerys, whom he thinks has a better chance of winning and is the most beautiful woman in the world.

However, in the subtext, do we really think Daenerys’s side is the winning side????

If she is the main antagonist, then she has to lose, right? So what could this mean....that Euron switches Cersei’s camp and goes over to Daenerys’s camp thinking he is picking the winning side, only to end up on the losing side, when Daenerys finally loses. 

Euron is a wild card and hopefully, next episode provides some solid clues regarding what’s going to happen.

There is also this scene from S07E05 Eastwatch, where the maesters of the Citadel are discussing Bran’s letter about the AOTD and one of the maesters mockingly says...”Don’t forget the prophet Lodos, who said that the drowned god will rise up and destroy Aegon the Conqueror”

Prophecy twist is when Aegon the Protector aka Jon Snow who has risen from the dead, destroys the Drowned God aka Euron Greyjoy.

Or the Drowned God aka Euron Greyjoy allies himself with Aegon the Conqueror come again aka Daenerys Stormborn to attempt to destroy KL???? It remains to be seen.

Why will Jon need to kill Euron??? Maybe just maybe Euron will be involved in kidnapping Sansa to KL. And Jon has already said (to LF) “Touch my sister and I’ll kill you myself”. That Chekhov’s gun is still waiting to go off.

I can’t help but think that the scene in the godswood in S08E01 Winterfell, in front of the heart tree, when Arya and Jon reunite and they talk about Sansa and Jon says that “I am her family too”, Arya says “don’t forget that” is foreshadowing for Jon to remember his first vow after he was brought back from the death that he made to Sansa...”I won’t ever let him touch you again, I will protect you, I promise”. Jon’s vow to protect Sansa will come into play in a moment when Sansa’s safety and her life is compromised. If Euron/GC come for her, then Jon’s vows to protect Sansa are applicable here as well. 

This Jon/Arya scene then transitions to a shot of KL, where we think Sansa will get kidnapped to, and then we have shots of Cersei and Qyburn, the Golden Company with Euron and, finally we have scenes where a “sister” is held captive by Euron. And who comes to rescue his “sister” Yara?? Theon, who is a foil to Jon...I think these are interesting scene transitions. Again, since it’s rescuing one’s sister, it could be that Arya is the one who comes to rescue Sansa, together with Jon, and ends up being the one to kill Euron.

Having said all of that, I am really not sure. Mainly because I don’t think the show will let Jon kill both Euron and Daenerys. That’s a bit much for one guy, even if it’s Jon. And this is primarily where I think Arya may play a part and be the one to kill Euron. If Jon kills Daenerys, then Arya will kill Euron, again the objective remains the same, protect Sansa. That shot from the crypts teaser where Sansa is flanked by Arya one on side and Jon on the other side, with their weapons drawn in a protective stance, makes me think that both Jon and Arya will have to protect and save Sansa at some point.

Or the show could give this kill to Yara, Jamie, or even Brienne, who knows. Like I said, this part is pure speculation on my part so I could be totally wrong.

And finally Cersei Lannister:

I am counting on the show giving us a Sansa vs Cersei showdown, I feel like those two characters need to meet to complete the YMBQ story arc. 

If the kidnapping plot does not happen, Sansa could come to KL to parlay with Cersei to strike up an alliance to take down Daenerys and defend the 7Ks.

These character posters have the same energy about them. Two Queens.

The show has been teasing us a Stark-Lannister alliance through its promos and teasers.

I could see Sansa and Cersei forming an alliance together to defeat Daenerys’s forces. The Golden Company will fight on behalf of Cersei and Sansa against Daenerys’s (and maybe Euron’s) armies.

In terms of Cersei’s demise, I am not putting too much stock on the Valonqar prophecy being actually true. Yes, Cersei has to die eventually, but D&D are Lena fanboys and I don’t think they will give her a gruesome on-camera death. In fact, I think Cersei will commit suicide or maybe poisoned.

When cornered, Cersei has either always managed to pull out an ace in the hole and outwit all her opponents in one fell-swoop like she did with House Tyrell in S06E10 when she blew up the sept 

OR 

she turns suicidal and threatens to do something rash.

Case in point:

1. She was willing to poison herself and Tommen with the essence of nightshade poison at the Battle of Blackwater Bay when all looked lost until Tywin came and saved her.

2. When Tywin was forcing her to marry Loras, she threatened to “burn our House to the ground”.

The only thing Cersei loves is her children, Jamie, and her throne. The fact that she is drinking wine again means that she probably is no longer pregnant. Jamie, if he ends up with Brienne, is gone from her. Her throne is under attack from Daenerys’s forces. All of these may just force her to do:

Foreshadowing from S03E10 Mhysa, where she is talking to Tyrion to give Sansa a child so that she may have some happiness.

She does not have any more children left, so she may just throw herself from the highest window in the red keep.

Joffrey and Myrcella were poisoned, Tommen committed suicide by throwing himself from his window. Maybe Cersei will do the same. We shall see.

Thoughts and comments??

[silly-anshe]

“When I was a child, my brother would tell me a bedtime story about the man who murdered our father... and all the things we would do to that man.”

The promo for 8x02 starts like this, so it’s plausible that this might be a trial, since Dænerys is “the righful queen” of the Seven Kingdoms. She’ll most probably want to put him in trial for kingslaying, but also for attempted queenslaying.

If Dæny were to put him on trial for his crime, then Jaime has a right to a defense. He could start with his intention of honoring the pledge he made in King’s Landing.

But I think that won’t be enough for Dænerys, especially after it is known that there won’t be any Lannister forces coming to their aid. And all hell would break loose if that happens.

D: He never should have trusted Cersei

S: You never should have either

If the Northern and Vale lords were already disappointed in Jon for giving up the crown they gave him in order to ge foreign armies, dragons and the army of the enemy of House Stark for the War for the Dawn, well, I imagine they’ll be even more disappointed (but not surprised) that the Lannister army won’t show up after all. Which will bring more discord between Northerners and Dænerys and her crew. The alliance Jon sacrificed so much for can go south very, very quickly.

But one of the things Jaime can do is jusitfy his actions. He could tell all the Northern and Vale lords what the Mad King did with the wildfire; not that he burned people with it, they know that much. No, Jaime could tell them of Aerys’ plan of burning the whole of King’s Landing to the ground in case of rebellion. Of course, this would be less than ideal for Dænerys. The northerners are doubtful of her. The last thing she needs is to be linked to her father’s legacy.

This back and forth could go on, everyone will be pointing fingers at each other, but one thing that could make it come to a halt is the Loot Train attack. As of s8e1, only Dænerys, Tyrion, Sam, Jon and Jorah know about this and the execution of the Tarlys. The reveal of this news will be monumental. Sansa, Bran and Arya, whose grandfather was burnt alive by the Mad King; Shireen, who Davos loved as a daughter, was burnt at the stake by Melisandre and her parents; Mance Rayder, Tormund’s friend and leader, was also burnt at the stake; the Hound and his history with fire... There are a lot of people linked with violents deaths by fire. The death of the Tarlys won’t be an easy thing to dismiss.

And then there’s the matter of the food. I don’t know if they will acknowledge the fact that Dænerys burned the food stacked for winter (I personally think is damn time she’s held accountable for the mistakes she makes, though I wouldn’t count what she did at the Reach as a mistake, it was more cruelty than anything), but it would be interesting, especially if the show decided to go the route of comparing Sansa and Dænerys’ ruling styles.

[jonsa101]

Fuck It! Here’s My Episode 2 Analysis Now!!

*SPOILER ALERT* I really wanted to wait until the episode actually premiered tonight to write this but since I already watched it and I have so much to say about this episode, I’m going to share my thoughts about this now! 

First of all, I LOVED THIS EPISODE!! My favorite scene by far was Brienne becoming a knight! Wow just wow!!! What a beautiful scene. I wish the show would spend 80+ minutes on emotional scenes like this. These are the type of scenes I want to see above everything else because this to me is truly the heart of the show. With that said, let’s dive into this thing!

First and foremost, POLITICAL JON HAS ABSOUTLEY BEEN CONFIRMED!!!

Like this shit is so obvious now it’s not even debatable. The first dead giveaway was Jon’s nonreaction to news of Cersei not bringing her armies. Y’all he was so nonchalant about it. I don’t think the show even gave us a reaction shot of his face hearing the news. When he finally did speak, he still didn’t have much of a reaction to the events unfolding before him. This behavior perfectly aligns to the behavior we have seen from Jon thus far and why many of us believed in political Jon in the first place.

The Second and most important giveaway was Sansa’s and Dany’s conversation! Again wow! Just wow! What a fucking scene. 

WHO’S MANIPULATING WHOM?!! BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and that dawn of realization on Sansa’s face!!!!!! 

Sansa literally came into that conversation thinking Jon was in love and came out of that convo realizing that he has been manipulating her the whole time. The best thing about it is Dany spilled the tea herself without even realizing it. Fuck Jon telling Sansa shit! Sansa finding out about political Jon straight from the horse's mouth was the scene I didn’t know I needed!!

Moving on, let’s talk about the elephant in the room...Theonsa.

I just want to say, I absolutely understand why their scenes can be viewed as romantic. It’s not, I don’t ship it in the slightest, but I understand why. During my first watch, when I saw their soup scene I was like “oh no,” but after my second rewatch their scenes read as platonic to me. Let me explain why. First of all, the only scene that I potentially viewed as romantic in my first watch was the soup scene. That’s it. Their reunion was beautiful and emotional but it came across as familial to me. It was like Sansa was reuniting with a long lost brother or a friend that she had missed dearly. I also think people need to realize the context of this scene. Theon left the safety of his home, where the white walkers weren’t likely to attack, to serve Sansa. He didn’t have to come. He didn’t have to risk his life to help the Starks but he did. That speaks volumes and Sansa in that moment understood the magnitude of his actions and was deeply moved. This is a deep bond that was formed over shared trauma and the journey that they’ve been through to overcome said trauma. 

For the soup scene, I think on Sansa’s end it’s more astonishment than her or Theon catching feelings. First of all, Theon still faces a tremendous amount of guilt even after everything. He’s on a path of redemption after all which is the main reason why he’s at Winterfell in the first place. During their interaction, he looks at Sansa but can’t fully look at her before he tears his eyes away. He’s still guilt-ridden and is clearly uncomfortable. Sansa, on the other hand, is full on staring at him. People need to realize that the last time Sansa saw Theon he was practically still Reek. So the fact that he’s even there, in his right state of mind, eating soup in front of her, must be jarring to her. But she’s relieved and happy that Theon is there. That’s my interpretation of that scene. It’s similar to Jon and Sansa’s scene in a sense with how Jon had the same astonished look, looking at Sansa after they just reunited. But I think overall, Jon and Sansa's scenes were romantically coded with added context. Plus they were alone. Another thing I want to point out is that the “couples montage” was NOT A COUPLES MONTAGE!! 

If anything, it was a montage of the last things these characters were doing before the White Walkers attacked Winterfell. The montage showcased everyone who has played some sort of role in this story. The scene truly started with Poderic and company. Former enemies, deeply bonded by the events that just took place. Seemingly united under one cause. Then it led to Sam with his family, Theon and Sansa eating soup, a sleeping Gendry, and a pondering Arya Stark (I will address this next), Missandei and Greyworm kissing passionately, Jorah on his own and before it finally cut off, Dany staring at Jon looking at Lyanna’s statue. If this was a couples montage it was one hell of a disjointed couples montage and I’m going to explain why. First thing, Jorah appearing solo in a montage that features “couples” doesn't make sense. This is one of the main reasons why I’m adamant that this montage was just showcasing what the main and secondary characters were doing before the WWs arrived. Secondly, Arya and Gendry people. This might be an unpopular opinion but they’re not a couple. That look on Arya’s face said it all and I think showing a sleeping Gendry and a pondering Arya was meant to showcase the emotional disconnect Arya feels in that moment. I think Arya definitely is still struggling with her identity as Arya Stark and No One. Nothing wrong to hook up just to hook up, but that’s exactly what it was. They looked like two separate entities.

Other things I want to quickly point out, for some reason, I was getting deep friendship vibes from Jaimie and Brienne rather than romantic. Maybe I need to do another rewatch. I do think they love and care about each other deeply but I wasn’t picking up on the obvious romantic vibes that I used to get. If anything maybe their relationship is built on deep respect and admiration for one another. IDK these are just my thoughts. That knight scene moved me like no other though.

The last thing I want to address is Dark Dany. I’m not going to go into detail but at this point, if you don’t recognize this, that’s on you. It’s there. It’s as plain as day and there’s no need to keep beating a dead horse about it. Dark Dany isn’t coming; dark Dany is HERE! 

Again these are just my thoughts. As for Jonsa, I definitely still think it’s at play. Jon and Sansa still don’t have a resolution to their tension and I am excited to see that unfold. Especially now that Sansa knows that political Jon is at play. Also, she’s still not aware that Jon is her cousin and this matters!

[yocalio]

If there gonna be any sex scenes in S8. I think it gonna be between Jon and Daenerys.

Yep.

[paceyrememberseverything]

Sansa’s Scroll

*COULD BE CONSIDERED SPOILER*

TURN BACK NOW

Ok, so we know that Sophie kept a scroll from GOT. It was given to her on the last day of shooting and it’s from SEASON 8 and it’s a MAJOR SPOILER.

So, what are we thinking is on the scroll?

I’m kind of hoping it’s not a “hey, I used the GC to kidnap Sansa, come bend the knee, Love Hate, Cersei” scroll.

What else could it be?

A secret letter from Jon, warning Sansa of his plan before his arrival?

Wedding invite scroll? 😂

Thoughts?

[fortunatelylori]

"Everyone who's crossed her she's found a way to murder." I can definitely see this going through Jon's mind if Sansa is kidnapped. Sansa and Arya were used as baragining chips in S1 for Robb but he chose not to go to KL. Also, when Jon found out "they" were being held there he initially was going to go but was talked out of it and chose to honor his vows. I think this will come back too. Conflict of the heart. "You'd think of little else if you had too." (tbc...)

I think Jon will be consumed by this at this pt. So to make the stakes higher I think both the WW and Sansa getting kidnapped (if this does happen) will happen simultaneously. While I think Sansa and Cersei will have another showdown and Sansa being in KL against her will check so many boxes I can’t just can’t figure out why. Why kidnap and not just murder? Why would she think Jon would come when Robb didn’t? Could LF might have told her something about their relationship?

Also, if both Cersei and the WW happen at the same time then both of them will be right as far as who to be concerned about. How do you see this plot unfold? What will Jon’s conflict be at this point? What will he decide? What role will Dany play in this? I would love your thoughts on this. Thank you!

Hey, nonnie!

I have to say … this kidnapping plot is slowly taking over my life. :))))) I’ve been thinking about it a lot actually. And while the more time passes, the more I’m convinced it will happen, the details of it are still a little fuzzy for me. 

So I guess I could start by saying why a kidnapping of Sansa by Cersei makes sense and what story boxes it would tick if it were to happen. After all, you don’t make a plot choice if it doesn’t help you achieve certain goals both thematically and in terms of story progression: 

1. It would bring Sansa and Cersei face to face again: this is VERY important for a number of reasons. Sansa was Cersei’s “little dove”, the girl she attempted to mold to her will but also despised because she saw her as being weak and naive. Their relationship is rife for dramatic exploration and I don’t know any writer worth his salt that wouldn’t want to tap into that, particularly now that Sansa has grown and developed and they could flip the dynamic on its head, showing what Sansa has learned from all of her tormentors, Cersei included. This is also important because Sansa needs to go back to her: “If I am ever queen, I will make them love me” mentality. Right now she’s vacillating and the question of her admiring Cersei hangs in the air, as per Jon’s observation. The simplest way for Sansa to fully reject Cersei’s worldview is by being faced with her once again, and choosing to the the Queen that people love, not the Queen that people fear. It’s kind of a play on being faced with who you might become if you choose one road instead of another, sort of thing.  

2. The Younger, More Beautiful Queen: this prophecy has tormented Cersei her entire life and it’s bound to conclude in its final act. If Sansa is the younger, more beautiful queen that will cast Cersei down and take all that she holds dear, it makes sense that she would be present for Cersei’s demise, whatever that might be. I say present because while Sansa was involved for most of Cersei’s tragedies, she was never the party responsible, she inadvertently found herself involved and I hope the pattern continues because I like the idea of prophecies not being played straight and that Cersei herself is ultimately responsible for her own downfall. 

3. Sansa is the princess in the tower with no prince to save her: for all the complaining that people do that Sansa can’t do anything for herself and she always needs saving, the sad fact of the matter is Sansa has never truly been saved by anyone. As she herself puts it to LF: She’s taken from monsters that murdered her family and given to other monsters that murdered her family. Her “rescues” are simply an exacerbation of her confinement. No one saves her. The one that comes closest is Theon but it’s Sansa that pushes him to that point and thematically speaking this action is linked more to Theon regaining his identity that Sansa Stark being saved. Also, her reunion with Jon did not truly bring liberation because she was still stuck with LF and also her trauma has made her close herself off and put herself in a sort of emotional cage. 

As you mentioned, Robb actually refuses to risk the ire of his men to go and try to save Sansa so she’s never truly a priority for someone, nor is she the goal, as the princess in the tower trope lays out. So to finally see someone make Sansa their priority and come to rescue her, despite all other consideration, would be a fulfilling arc. Particularly since Sansa keeps saying that no one can protect her. People have taken this to mean that Sansa doesn’t want protection because she can take care of herself. I don’t think that’s it at all. Sophie Turner said that when Sansa reunites with Jon, it’s the first moment of happiness Sansa has felt in years because she’s finally with someone who will take care of her and look after her. So I think Sansa is still looking for that prince to protect her and save her. She just doesn’t believe that exists anymore. So maybe it’s time she be proven wrong. 

4. Jon has a choice to make: Jon has been teased with a choice between love and duty since season 1 and he’s always chosen duty. But there were always extenuating circumstances to his choice. When he wanted to join Robb’s campaign, Joer Mormont pointed out that fighting the WW was more important on the grand scheme of things. Also Jon, at the time, was still the outcast, bastard of Winterfell, looking to forge his new identity. When he chose the NW over Ygritte, he had already made up his mind that he was a brother of the NW and that’s where his life was (he tells Ygritte: I have to go home now) and also justified by the fact that Ygritte violent tendencies pushed him away in any case.  However, in the end the loyalty that Jon showed to the NW was betrayed when he was killed by the very people who called themselves his brothers. When he came back from the dead, he was a man without a purpose or a plan (a weird thing for Jon Snow). It was Sansa that gave that to him, pushed him back into action so it would be easy to assume that whatever determination Jon might have now to fight the WW, protect the North and whatever else is inextricably linked to her. So what happens if she’s in danger? Will Jon’s choice between love and duty be as easy to make as it was in the past? I’d argue no. Because Sansa is not only his love, but his duty as well. He’s sworn to protect her time and time again and her safety and well being are paramount to him. So this time we’re going to watch Jon choose love and what a sight that will be!  

5. Tension must be added to the Jon/D*ny dynamic: And the parentage reveal is not enough. Because D*ny finding out Jon is a rival for the throne she’s been dreaming about since season 1 is a political matter. Her seeing him lose his mind over the possibility of Cersei hurting Sansa is a deeply personal one. I always found it interesting that D*ny wasn’t there to witness Jon’s interaction with Theon on the beach and see his reaction when Theon brought up Sansa. But I’m willing to bet good money she’ll have a front row seat to Jon Snow going berserk because “his sister” is in danger. It will probably be the last nail in the coffin for the already doomed Jon/D*ny alliance. Also, at some point, Jon is going to ride Rhaegar, I’m almost 100% sure of that. No way the writers are passing up the opportunity to have their number 1 hero mount a dragon or have this Dance of Dragons 2.0 end without a Jon/D*ny showdown on dragon back. So what better time for Jon to steal Rhaegal than when he needs to get to KL really, really fast?

6. Jaime and Cersei need to meet again: For one I believe that Jaime is the younger brother who will choke Cersei to death. For two, Cersei’s storyline is so marked by wildfire that it would be weird not to have the man most traumatized by wildfire be there to stop her from using it (which I believe will be the reason why he ends up killing her, paralleling his killing of the Mad King). Jaime and Cersei’s relationship is so toxic and tragic that it needs to end in the same vein, and “I don’t believe you” and a quick exist North ain’t gonna cut it. We know Jaime is going North to join the fight against the WW so the kidnapping plot might bring him back to KL, of his own accord or perhaps as Jon’s hostage. (he’s going to need some kind of leverage against Cersei, right? Who better than the only person left in the world Cersei actually cares about?)

7. The feelings reveal needs to happen somehow: At some point Jon and Sansa will need to confess their love for each other. So … what better time in terms of full emotional impact than after they’ve been separated and they thought they’d die/never see each other again? 

8. The writers need to connect the Winterfell/WW plot to the King’s Landing plot: I mean what is Cersei going to do for at least 3 episodes? Walk around the Red Keep counting the villages she’s taken back from D*ny with the help of the Golden Company? I mean, that would be the smart thing to do. Why march your armies into the North, in the dead of winter, with a zombie apocalypse underfoot? But then again, if characters acted smart and rational all the time, we’d have much more boring plot lines, wouldn’t we? The kidnapping of Sansa can bring the two narrative threads together. 

So both in terms of plot expediency as well as arc completion, the kidnapping plot neatly solves all sorts of issues as well as add drama and the all important cliff hangers GOT loves. 

As for how it will unfold … I think what we’re truly missing in order to see the full picture is the: Why? Why does Cersei kidnap Sansa at this juncture in the story? She could have already done it in season 7, when Jon was away on Dragonstone. It would have been a hell of a lot easier to do than now, during the Long Night, with dragons circling Winterfell and huge armies fighting zombies. Unfortunately, I don’t have a clear answer to this. Something needs to happen … some unforeseen plot development that convinces Cersei to send her men to capture Sansa. What that might be, I’m not sure. 

But it will probably also be the answer to your question about why kidnap Sansa and not just murder her. In addition to that, one other reason why Cersei wouldn’t just murder Sansa is because of the way that Cersei gets her revenge. If we look at her revenge against Septa Ornella and Ellaria Sand, we can see that Cersei is not content to only murder her enemies, she wants to dish out the same amount and type of torment that was inflicted on her by the parties responsible. I imagine she will want to do the same thing to Sansa. 

Could this happen simultaneously with the WW attack? Again, I don’t know. Feels like a lot to juggle but it could … Maybe the kidnapping happens during the WW final battle and Jon going to KL is the start of the Dance of Dragons part of the story line? Maybe Jon steals Rhaegal to go rescue Sansa and D*ny pursues him on Drogon? Just ideas at this point …

One theory I do have is that Cersei need not attack Winterfell to get Sansa. After all, Cersei did promise to help against the WW. That would mean that the Winterfell gang, at least in theory, will be waiting for her tropes to arrive. Any day now … Almost there … There they are! They show up, Winterfell opens their gates and boom, somewhere during the night, Euron (it would need to be Euron, wouldn’t it? he’s the only one crazy enough to attempt it particularly if Cersei commits to marrying him) and his merry men abduct Sansa. Now imagine the fall out from that decision, the guilt that Jon would feel that he allowed them to walk through the gates, the angst, the torment! That would be great! So? In his desperation, he steals Rhaegal (and possibly Jaime) and goes to KL. The reason why I’m so attached to Jon stealing Rhaegal at this juncture is that atop a dragon, Jon has more of a chance of getting out there alive with Sansa, than if he were to travel by boat. I mean he needs to take precautions, despite whatever Cersei might say/promise. He’s not a moron. 

As for what happens in KL,it’s anyone’s guess at this point because again we must return to that pesky: why. Although I have to say, that whatever might happen, it won’t be that pretty for Sansa. I don’t see any way it could be. In the end, she will triumph but it will be an angst riddled couple of weeks for all of us.  

If anyone has scenarios to share here, please feel free. 

Thank you for the ask, nonnie!

[sanrionharbor-blog]

GOT 8X01 Other Sanrion Things

Had a couple other Sanrion-related thoughts.

First one was buried in a comment I made on somebody else's post, so here it is again!

1. I remember watching the earlier GOT seasons with my brother and he commented that Shae was different for Tyrion because she had his sense of humor. First evidenced when Tyrion tells Shae "If I die, weep for me" before going into the Battle of the Green Fork and Shae just replies, "You'll be dead. How will you know?" See. Mm. Gallows humor. That's a little facetious, but I feel similar vibes with Sansa and Tyrion in the 8x01. They already had a bond, confirmed by GRRM, the scripts, and the actors themselves--not a romantic bond, but true affection. A foundation for something more, if the timing ever worked out right. You know, like Sansa not being a minor or a political pawn and Tyrion not being a pariah or in love with Shae. Bottom Line: Sansa and Tyrion now have a more "adult" bond, one supplemented by their similar intellectual capabilities and equal parts cynical/compassionate outlook on the world

2. Speaking of the POSSIBILITY of something working out and the BASIS for this ship (which absolutely exists), I'll just requote Dinklage himself here: "I love those two characters when they’re together. There’s something so sensitive about their relationship. For something so horrible and arranged there was a goodness to it and mutual affection in horrible circumstances. It was a marriage as a treaty, as a lot of those arranged marriages were. Though you hear of arranged marriages now working out. If it was given a chance maybe it would have.”

3. I thought it was interesting that the very first reunion that D&D unpacked in the "Inside the Episode" featurette was the Sansa/Tyrion reunion. They immediately wanted to point out there were several reasons that it wasn't the warmest, fuzziest thing on the planet--but NOT because Sansa and Tyrion didn't like each other as people. Guys, even if they don't end up being the odd couple romance I so very much dig, I still wholeheartedly ship their friendship/allyship.

4. Conflicting reports on whether or not Sansa and Tyrion are still married. Hmmm....

[arabian-bloodstream]

Gendrya Hint in Teaser

Because I am obsessed with my precious babies!!!

So a couple more things about the GOT teaser and these are Gendry, Arya/Gendry-centric. At the beginning, a feather fell off of Lyanna’s statue as Jon walked by.

For those who don’t remember, that feather was placed there by Robert Baratheon in the Pilot episode when he and Ned visited Lyanna in the crypt. It was in that same scene that Robert said to Ned:

I have a daughter. You have a daughter. We’ll join our houses.

And that has been a rallying cry for the Arya/Gendry fanbase ever since the Gendrya fanbase was born because, of course, the son he was talking about (Joffrey) was not his, and thus the daughter of Ned’s he was talking about (Sansa) no longer applied in that situation. Robert also brought this up as a way to correct the past in which he, Robert Baratheon, was supposed to marry Ned’s sister, Lyanna Stark. That didn’t happen.

So we have the feather which was a reminder of that very scene between Ned and Robert. This has to do with Robert in general, albeit, subconsciously, and of the Robert/Lyanna marriage that did not happen (again, subconsciously).

Which leads me to the fact that I believe that the Baratheon bloodline/House is coming back into play in the final season with our beloved bastard blacksmith, Gendry. There is a reason that he was brought back--and it was not just for fanservice (pfft!) or as Arya’s (potential--as if! HAH! That is totally happening) love interest.

There is a reason that D&D kept Gendry out of all of Robert’s bastards from the books and decided to merge Edric Storm’s story (with Stannis and the Lord of Light) with his and I believe that it is because Gendry is the most important of Robert’s bastards in GRRM’s endgame.

There is a reason that the Baratheon sigil was a part of the Game of Thrones title card from the beginning and has remained thus all along. The Baratheon House and line is not dead. And Gendry is the reason why. In this teaser that feather was just another reminder of Robert Baratheon and tthe Baratheon place in this story, as well as the Arya/Gendry and Robert/Lyanna parallel. That’s what I think.