#greenqueenrants

[greenqueenhightower]

I don't understand why people get upset with the Greens' and Alicent's willingness to believe that Viserys' deathbed prophecy truly was about Aegon? I think that the show explained very well why they needed to believe this. Aegon never had a single ounce of acknowledgment from his father growing up. Of course he would have very much liked to believe that his father had a prophetic revelation that restored him as a rightful son in his eyes. All he wanted was to feel worthy of him (see Ep. 9, the carriage scene with Alicent). And so did all of the Green kids, they wanted to feel worthy of their father's love and somehow feel that they belonged. That they were Targaryen enough for the standards of their father. And Alicent wanted her sacrifice and devotion to have a meaning so, of course she would have hung on to the idea that Viserys, even if it took him 20 years to do so, finally recognized her sacrifice with his dying breath. They needed this confirmation more than anything and when the opportunity came they were more than ready to delude themselves. Because feeling completely abandoned and unworthy hurt even more.

They are so tragically desperate and I love them to bits.

[greenqueenhightower]

Why did I just notice that???

Do you see how Alicent is so dissatisfied in the scenes during the Green Council meeting in episode 9? How utterly surprised and somewhat disappointed?

It's not because she falls from cloud nine to discover the possibility of Aegon becoming king when she learns about the lords' "long-laid plans" from Tyland Lannister. She knew that it would make sense for Aegon to inherit the throne for both the realm and the survival of her family, and basically gave us hints she realized this as early as the hunt scene in episode 3.

More specifically, she understands that she might have to put Aegon on the throne during the scene when a heavily drunk Viserys laments his fears of making a mistake in naming Rhaenyra his heir since he now has a son, and reveals to Alicent his prophetic vision of seeing his son with the conqueror's crown. Even if at that moment, Alicent reassures Viserys he made the right choice, you can see that the doubt lingers in her mind, and in seeing Rhaenyra return from the hunt covered in blood in absolute and ruthless callousness, Alicent recognizes the danger.

It is a wake-up call: in the end, she might have to choose her son over Rhaenyra.

And of course, we know that as Aegon was growing up, Alicent spent hours musing these doubts and even confronts him with them in episode 6: "You are the challenge, simply by living and breathing. You are the king's firstborn son and what they know, what everyone in the realm knows in their blood and in their bones, is that one day you will be our king."

So what explains her dismay during the Green Council meeting??

As I see it, the cause of Alicent's distress during the Green Council among other things is not that the lords planned a whole operation to crown Aegon as king, but that they did so behind her back, as if she is not fit to be included in these discussions, let alone be consulted for her own son's future and survival.

She rightly says: "Am I to understand that members of the small council have been planning secretly, to install my son without me?" and right after that comes the condescending reply: "My queen, there was no need to sully you with darkling schemes."

No sh!t.

Remember how betrayed and distraught Alicent felt went Aemond lost an eye and everyone dismissed her concerns as that of an overreacting and overbearing mother? The Green Council scene gives flashbacks to this.

Once again, Alicent's wishes, her wills, her thoughts, and her whole person as a mother, queen, advisor, and woman, are sidelined and minimized by members of her own council.

So this is why I think it makes sense that episode 9 is called "The Green Council" which contrasts the name given to a different council meeting in episode 10, namely, "The Black Queen." Because apparently, Rhaenyra owns her council meeting, even if she has to shut down Daemon to do so. But Alicent is not yet perceived as her own council's queen.

I hope we can somehow see Alicent truly become her own Green Queen in season 2.

[greenqueenhightower]

Sometimes I just love the irony in HOTD:

True legitimate heir Rhaenys is bypassed for a male heir to the throne and her grandfather Jaehaerys goes along with it, only for Viserys to succeed him two years later and reverse the order and name Rhaenyra his heir despite desperately wanting a son and even though she is a woman (like Rhaenys was), and who as it might turn out, might actually be a bastard, who then goes on to have three bastards of her own with Harwin, and since Laenor does not die and simply vanishes when she is still married to him, that automatically makes her children with Daemon bastards as well.

Do you see the point? With every generation, the Targaryen claim to the Iron Throne is weakening instead of getting stronger.

They literally went from having two legitimate heirs to the Iron Throne to choose from, to completely destroying their entire line. The weak choices a generation made created a domino effect that affected the generations after it.

Oh yeah. Of course the only thing that could tear down the house of the dragon was itself, it just had to be.

[greenqueenhightower]

Just imagine how many times this has happened--how many sleepless nights had she had thinking that "he might call me to his bed any minute now" and being unable to do anything about it. She couldn’t outrightly tell him “no” because he was the king, and she needed to have heirs because this is what Viserys married her for. Can you imagine the anxiety?! knowing that you’d be r!ped any minute now, and having NO ONE to talk to about it (bc I’m sure Otto didn’t care). But this is not just anxiety; this is abuse, this is feeling powerless, this is disgust, this is emotional turmoil, this is on a whole other level and this was Alicent’s everyday reality.

my poor girl </3

[greenqueenhightower]

I know u won't get my point, but Alicent should have paid more attention to Rhaenyra and respected her and her father's wishes and not have installed her fucking son on the throne. Things started going south when she married Viserys and when she wanted to strip Rhaenyra off her birthright

How about, no?

*Long Rant Incoming:*

1) Viserys didn't talk about "birthright." In the eyes of the smallfolk, Aegon has the "birthright" to rule simply because he is a male Targaryen heir. Alicent's position was vulnerable because Viserys never actually promised Alicent that Aegon would be king but neither did he specify exactly what his role would be and that was the point… all his children wanted his attention and love, and a place to belong. Viserys didn’t know what he wanted. Before naming Rhaenyra his heir, he wanted a son so desperately that he killed his wife for it. His conscience pained him badly afterward, and he decided to name Rhaenyra his heir. Nevertheless, he wanted a young woman to sleep with; he didn’t want a wife, he didn’t want more kids, and he had already named his heir. But he married Alicent and had those kids anyway. He really was so irresponsible and on top of that, he tells Alicent in episode 3 that he thinks he probably was wrong in making Rhaenyra his heir because of his dream/prophecy, so ofc Alicent was worried. Honestly, he could have made his mind up about Rhaenyra and shut up about it. Or he could have actually thought of his other kids and given them some work to do and trained them for some position if he truly cared for them. From the moment they existed, they were his responsibility. And for sure it makes sense why his kids by Alicent, not having known any special love from their father, would want to finally claim a position for themselves.

So, Viserys set the Dance in motion by his choices. If he had supported his Targtower kids and ensured they wouldn’t be threatened by their mad uncle (Daemon; who hated them just because they were Otto's and Alicent's blood) in the succession, then Alicent would have fewer reasons to establish Aegon on the throne.

2) Alicent spent time with Viserys because she had always considered her own self in reference to the Targaryens. What was she if not Rhaenyra’s childhood companion? When Otto compels her to visit Viserys she doesn’t want to. She brings along the book of histories she used to read to Rhaenyra. What else can she offer to the Targaryens? This is what they like: to talk about their legacies and their histories. So she might as well read to him, right? There’s no harm done. And she went. She does the bare minimum whenever they are together: the bare minimum of eye contact and conversation. Viserys was SO PERVERSE that even with the minimum attention from a teenager he wanted to fuck her. Not even make her his wife because he didn’t want another wife. And you see how surprised Alicent is when he declares so matter-of-factly that he will wed Alicent, no questions asked. Because she was the easiest bride-but-no-wife choice of them all. She already had her father in court who was a megalomaniac, and Viserys thought that by marrying Alicent he was giving Otto what he always wanted: greater opportunities for social climbing. So he’d stay out of his way, right? That’s what he wanted all along, right? So I can have your daughter any way I like, right? (Because had he married Laena, can you imagine being so chill with Corlys as a father-in-law? Ofc he wouldn’t desire anything potentially restrictive for him.) And I’m saying that he didn’t want a wife because of what he’d done before to Aemma. He had already made up his mind that (to console his own conscience and to honor Aemma’s memory) he would make Rhaenyra his heir. SO HE DIDN'T NEED ANY MORE HEIRS. Then why does he get married and have some more?? BECAUSE HE IS AN IDIOT and because he just wanted a young bride. He is the reason the war began, and his reckless choices, not Alicent wanting some compensation for her years of mistreatment and suffering. Because even after he got married and had those kids he still had time to make things right but he didn’t.

So Alicent didn’t marry Viserys, it was the other way around. He lusted after her and wed and bed her. Teenage Alicent couldn’t and wouldn't go against the will of the King.

3) Regarding the friendship between Alicent and Rhaenyra it was actually the opposite: Alicent many times tried to defend her and had her back even when Viserys and Otto believed the rumors of her losing her maidenhood (which as an unmarried heir was an insult to the crown). Alicent didn’t want to believe it and she supported her! However, even earlier than that, Rhaenyra cast Alicent off without understanding or offering consolation for the predicament she found herself in. She never tried to understand Alicent and never really paid enough attention to what her friend was going through even before she married Viserys. Alicent was alone and without a friend and Rhaenyra should have paid more attention to her.

4) Things really started to go south when Rhaenyra betrayed Alicent's trust by lying to her and continuing to flout her freedom, special treatment, and life without consequences to Alicent's face. The reason Rhaenyra had bastards and married Laenor was her own fault in the first place. Alicent tried to encourage Viserys to look for any potential suitors for her, and Rhaenyra had every opportunity to make the right choice but no, she messed it up by seeking out Daemon and then sleeping with Criston, so she brought it to herself. After what she did, there was no suitor available apart from Laenor, and her father forced her to marry him because no one else would. And then she had three Strong kids, making every mistake after the other (although I understand her completely: she had to have those kids because she wanted heirs and because that’s her body her choice, you know? She can sleep with whomever she wants) but at the same time, the game they all play is political and during the time and age we’re discussing, it was a big deal if you had bastard kids, especially since there already were THREE legitimate male Targaryen heirs whose fate was unsure and further endangered by Rhaenyra's actions. But it wasn’t Alicent’s fault that Rhaenyra had those kids, it was her own choice and she had to live up to the consequences of her actions. (She did this once by taking her children away from KL because she, too, recognized that they were being pointed at too much and it was getting too obvious).

5) Alicent knew that Rhaenyra wasn’t going to hurt her kids but the system they were born in would. In case she became heir, for Rhaenyra to secure her succession and have no challengers, Alicent’s kids had to die. Those displeased by Rhaenyra could easily dethrone her if there was an active male heir free to roam around Westeros. Alicent's sons would always be a challenge to Rhaenyra. And maybe Rhaenyra hadn’t thought about it per se and I trust that she never had vile intentions towards the kids (despite the deleted scenes where she gives death stares to Aegon) and despite never calling them by their names or developing a relationship with her siblings. Her own council and her uncle-husband would advise her to kill them. Their position wasn’t safe. Viserys could have secured it by giving them land and titles instead of the throne and by having them bend the knee to Rhaenyra but he didn’t. So their position was very much vulnerable because again, he didn’t care at all what happened to them, but Alicent, claiming the throne for her son, and saving his life the only way she knew how, DID.

[greenqueenhightower]

hi again! and i’m sorry if i sounded rude i didn’t mean to!

yes i was talking about ep 9!

but if you say that it isn’t manipulation why then rhaenyra and criston’s relationship is considered that? especially when they have sex? is a bit hypocritical no? because if it is then alicent has MUCH more power play in their situation:

1. he is her employee

2. she is THE QUEEN

so it still counts as manipulation simply because she knows what to do with her power in this scenario and she KNOWS he would do anything because he is dutiful but at the same time he will be the first to not listen to her as many times is shown (when he kills the guy in the council out of the blue or when she ASKS for him to take lucerys eye which she never asked for violence but when she does he doesn’t do it).

but is just my opinion saying this from a female standpoint and seeing alicent more of a player in this situation because you say he is her only ally, but is the ally she can play and say what he needs to do. In a way otto and larys are a mean to an end, because what they show is rooted in violence and greed and we can’t forget that still is a misogynist world (her father is still a high born and well her father, larys is a high born and a type of “gossip girl” (didn’t find a better word for this sorry English is not my first language)).

Criston is a low born and a guard: manipulation is still a thing that happened here.

Hey again anon 💚

Dw, I didn’t find it rude, I was just confused a bit. Thanks for elaborating.

I think that the difference between Alicent and Criston’s relationship and Rhaenyra and Criston’s relationship is that they are based on totally different values. Rhaenyra x Criston are bound together by desire and momentary passion but lack devotion, duty, and sacrifice. Alicent x Criston don’t exercise upon desire and passion but have honor, duty, loyalty, devotion, etc. This means that both parties (Alicent & Criston) feel more self-realized and valued within the auspices of their relationship because it gives them exactly what they ask for.

To Criston, it gives him a purpose, namely his role as a sworn protector. Remember what he said to Rhaenyra? His relationship with her deprived him of his own feelings of self-worth: “I took an oath”/“I stained my white cloak”/“It’s all I have to my name.” To Alicent, that relationship gives stability and security unlike any other relationship she has with a male in power. She knows that Criston will not ask anything of her beyond what they have agreed upon. He won't betray her, neither will he use or manipulate her. And Criston feels the exact same trust towards Alicent because he feels that he will not be used again as he has been used by Rhaenyra. Therefore, their relationship dignifies both of them.

Going back to your comment about manipulation, the fact that Criston is free to affirm or deny what Alicent commands once again shows that his role as her sworn protector dignifies rather than restrains him. He knows who he is and where his duties lie, and he knows that he can refuse Alicent’s command to take Luke’s eye, exactly because his worth is not measured by how much and how well his actions will please her, which would be the case if he was constantly manipulated into doing something either out of fear, either out of personal gain, either out of loss of self-respect. As you very well point out, Criston can refuse Alicent because he knows very well that he can. That his life doesn't depend on whether he complies to her wishes or not. Because he knows that if he doesn't want to do something, she will not enforce it nor will she degrade him because of his choice. That's why Criston can have that much self-confidence in his position as Alicent’s sworn protector and member of the King’s Guard. At the same time, he further displays how he can act of his own free will, no matter how horrible it is (and don't get me wrong-Lord Beesbury’s killing was horrible!). But in the context of whether he is being manipulated or not, it once again shows that nope, Criston “is a man in his own right” to use the words of Emma D’Arcy, and he can make his own decisions. (Further commentary on his unlawful killings fuelled by bloodlust that explain his character you can find here.)

In my opinion, Criston can be himself in his service to Alicent just as much as Alicent can be herself and can trust him with everything (one of many examples is when she talks to him about Viserys’ prejudice towards Rhaenyra’s sons even though it is forbidden to do so because she trusts that he will keep her confidence). In short, Alicent and Criston’s relationship is built upon mutual trust and respect, and it doesn't quiver when Criston fails to meet Alicent’s demands. If Alicent really did manipulate Criston and the incident at Driftmark was the only time he failed to comply, then wouldn't she have been extremely angry? Wouldn't she have felt betrayed? But she didn't feel that, because she too KNEW that what she had asked him was way out of line, way beyond his agreed-upon duties and therefore violated their agreement.

And you can compare their relationship with a very clear cut example of manipulation as we see it in the show: think about how Criston behaves with Alicent versus how Alicent behaves with Larys. Is Criston petrified of her? Does he feel that his life might depend upon keeping her happy and satisfied? Does he think that she might twist his words and actions to harm him if she doesn't get what she wants? No.

[greenqueenhightower]

Alicent's Fifth Child, The Realm

Or a rant about where I think Alicent's character development in S2 is going:

"All my life, I've endeavored to serve both my house and the realm, and somehow none of it matters."

Wow. Just wow.

If that line alone does not give us insight into the character development of Alicent in S2 I don't know what else will. To me, it very well encapsulates the idiosyncrasy of Alicent in that moment of turmoil that befalls the realm for which she is seen as the prime instigator. And yet, she only wished for peace and happiness for the realm as its Queen. But at the same time, and ever since her children were born, it is as if her interests were divided, if not equally, among her children and the realm. Her interests as a mother and her duty towards her children battle with her interests as the realm's Queen when she is married to Viserys. And we see the constant struggle to balance the two dichotomies of service in S1: Alicent wanting to support Rhaenyra's claim and yield to Viserys' wishes, but at the same time feeling extremely worried about her children's safety and future. It is, at times, almost impossible for Alicent to choose whom to serve because she aches for her children but also wants the realm to prosper. Heck, she wants all her children and the realm to prosper and survive. So when she installs Aegon to the throne, she truly does believe that she is finally bridging the gap between the two extremes. That she is performing her duties towards both the realm and her family.

This is, of course, a more thoughtful decision than any of the ones Viserys ever proposed. Alicent is used to thinking alone for the survival of her family as well as what's best for the realm because she learned early on that her children were the weakest link in the equation. Since she equated the realm to her children and viewed and cared for it as her child, it was much easier for her to make a decision that excluded Rhaenyra. Because a) she wasn't her child, b) Rhaenyra never placed herself under the jurisdiction of true servitude to the realm to view it as "a sibling" and c) Rhaenyra had never shown any sisterly affection to any of her siblings and Alicent's kids. So in Alicent's equation, Rhaenyra had to be subtracted for her two goals to be reconciled: protection and survival for her children and the realm.

And yet, all this inner struggle, all this sacrifice, all the pain she went through, "somehow none of it matters" when she realizes soon enough that war and destruction and further pain and suffering are just around the corner to upset the balance she believed in and tried to build. It is a truly harrowing thought, that all she endured and all she hoped for... could prove to be all for nothing.

[greenqueenhightower]

Ok but when Viserys was giving his "let us set aside our grievances" speech and everyone was called to toast one another, I was expecting him to start it off by saying something nice to Alicent that would show his gratitude for all her care and attention, but NO.