#httyd meta

[astrid-goes-for-a-spin]

Something I noticed this year in my annual httyd1 rewatch that's really interesting: Astrid never talks to Snotlout.

When he's flirting with her, she's not replying to him. She just makes dismissive gestures and leaves. Even his "dragon-esque figure" line only gets a punch, no dialogue. She does say "hey!" when he pushes her out of the way in the Nadder maze sequence, but no actual conversation.

So uh. Can we really blame him for just staring at her in sheer wonder when she encouragingly yells "you're the Viking!!!" I've always laughed at him for getting distracted and falling here, but. Can we really blame him under these circumstances. It's not only that he's never heard a kind word from Astrid, it's that she's never verbally acknowledged him at all

(And this makes her act 1 interactions with Hiccup even more interesting, honestly. Because he warrants verbal rejections from her. "Nope, just you" and "read it" are firm and clear but not cruel. It fascinates me that she won't even speak to Snotlout but she will bother to talk back to Hiccup, even in a funny way that first time)

[sweetpea67]

One fascinating underexplored aspect of the HTTYD books is how Hiccup is simultaneously both the Chosen One and an accidental hero.

Hiccup does not start the story with any notable skills besides his interest in dragons and his knowledge of Dragonese, both of which he picked up simply because he cared about dragons and not because of any Magical Gift (TM). He does get good at swordfighting, but even though he does have something of a natural talent he also puts in a lot of practice throughout the series which is a big part of why he gets better. It’s not just because he’s inherently perfect or some shit.

Now, Hiccup does have something of a “Chosen One” status as the Heir to Grimbeard the Ghastly and the Champion of Champions, etc etc. And obviously the fact that the Lost Things come to him is in a large part due to this Chosen One status. But what makes it extra interesting is that this Chosen One status is often granted as a result of Hiccup’s choices.

Hiccup ends up with Toothless because he feels bad for Fishlegs and gives up Horrorcow to him. He ends up with the sword because he stays behind on the Lucky Thirteen for Fishlegs. He’s able to escape Fort Sinister (and thus obtain the Roman shield) because he rescues Ziggerastica. He gets the arrow-from-the-land-that-does-not-exist, the ticking-thing, and the key-that-opens-all-locks on a quest to Hysteria to obtain a potato that will (supposedly) save Fishlegs. Humongous gives him the ruby heart’s stone in thanks for his help. The throne is found on an expedition to rescue Hiccup’s friend Camicazi, and that expedition wouldn’t exist if Hiccup hadn’t urged the Hooligans and Bog-Burglers to make peace in the first place. Hiccup is sent to find the crown by the witch when he goes into her fortune-telling hut to rescue Stoick. And the true Dragon Jewel—as pointed out in the text—is inside the lobster claw necklace that Fishlegs gave Hiccup in thanks for his love and kindness.

Hiccup ends up with the Lost Things, in other words, because he chooses the path of kindness or compassion. His destiny is a direct result of his own choices.

And Hiccup, despite being the Chosen One, isn’t originally in the cards for the prophecy at all. In How to Break a Dragon’s Heart, Excellinor seems confident that her son will become King because her fortunetelling has told her that Valhallarama will marry Humongously Hotshot. But in truth, Alvin broke up the pair just to be an asshole and thus inadvertently caused not only Hiccup’s birth but also his own ultmate rejection by Fate. This is futher emphasized by how he gives the lobster-claw necklace (and thus the Jewel) to Termagant in mockery, which leads to Fishlegs giving it to Hiccup out of love.

So in a lot of ways Hiccup is an outsider to Fate’s typical machinations. But where it really gets interesting is that this outsider status seems like a destiny in and of itself—as the narration says in book 12, “that was the job of a Hiccup […] to change the course of history”. Hiccups are a lot like wrenches thrown into the gears of history and systemic injustice. They break from the status quo because they choose love and compassion over popularity and power.

When Grimbeard dies, he is in mourning for his son Hiccup. So of course it makes sense that his Heir would also end up being a Hiccup. Because, for better or worse, Hiccups change things. They are the sort of people who will learn to speak Dragonese even though that language is the language of what is essentially a slave population. They are the sort of people who will find the Things through kindness when people like Alvin throw them away out of hatred.

Hiccup becomes the Chosen One because he is the kind of person who cannot close his eyes and turn away from injustice. Because he is sweet and curious and loving and compassionate and clever. Because he would do anything for his friends. Because he can defy fate, catch the Axe of Doom before lands, and choose to create a new world that most Vikings think is impossible. A world where not only the strong can belong, and where dragons live in perfect equality with all humans. A world we are still fighting for today.

[tillythemenace]

I find it super unfortunate that the HTTYD team had this super amazing concept in their pockets like THE NIGHT FURY, and it became such a great mystery that they really didn’t know what to do with at the end… there was just so much mystery and wonder about this species that was superior to any other and had massive intelligence and agility and everything! And Toothless being the only one they ever encountered and we never find out an actual compelling reason. Or maybe that WAS the point: to NEVER KNOW, to keep them a mystery and that would keep it interesting. Maybe we should’ve never known… Maybe there was so much more to the Night Furies, maybe they come from another completely different continent or smth…

But NOPE, they went for the cheapest most boring ass answer: “oh yeah btw all night furies were actually killed by this one random dude who’s such a non character, but look how badass he is! he wont tell us how he did it and his reason is a last ditch effort to connect him to the MC except it doesn’t. Also apparently he’s super famous and that creates a huge retcon in the entire franchise! Oh and don’t ask why the Night Furies don’t live on the Hidden World, a safe heaven for all dragons no human has ever touched because we DONT have an answer!”

Like??? Way to take an amazing concept and make it so bland and unemotional. I’d rather not have an answer to where are all the Night Furies than that garbage…Toothless and the Night Furies deserved better than to have that punkass bitch as their main “villain”💀💀💀

I was so mad he dared called himself the “Night Fury killer” bitch? Trying to be such hardcore wannabe he legit ruined the entire franchise lmfaooo 😭😭

[thethiefandtheairbender]

Stoick shouting "This isn't a joke, Hiccup!" which bleeds into not only humour as Hiccup's defense mechanism (that everyone sees right through) but also Astrid demanding, "Is this some kind of a joke to you?", a perspective she holds even after her and Hiccup find the nest with "And you what to keep it a secret? What, to protect your pet dragon, are you serious?" but changes when Hiccup goes, "Yes" because he has finally found something he takes entirely seriously (/ selflessly; now concerned post-New Tail with others seeing through him not for his own sake but for Toothless') and then Astrid never doubts him again. do you see the vision

[orbis-alius]

In general, there are few stories about "The Chosen One" that I like, but I have a feeling that Hiccup is one of them.

I mean, the dragon that kidnapped Valka was completely mesmerized with him, and at that time he was just a baby.

Theory people, come to me, please, classes don't leave me any free time to think 🥲

[the-d0wned-drag0n]

grimmel voice: the night fury cannot fly for extended periods of time

toothless voice: watch this bitch

ok. so im not a biologist but i do have eyes and the ability to google endurance flight adaptaions.

grimmel is an idiot, night furies are clearly adapted for long-distance flight. toothless can fly to the literal edge of the world. but let's look at this (pseudo-)scientifically*. i will be comparing toothless to the the irl king of long-distance flight, the wandering albatross.

one of the key adaptations for long-distance flight is a large wingspan. the wandering albatross has a wingspan of 11.5 feet. toothless has a wingspan of 45 feet.

you might argue that you need a large wingspan in relation to your body weight. as for toothless' canon weight, i've seen the number 1776 lbs tossed around on wikis, but i cannot find a source. this number would make toothless denser than a bewilderbeast, a flightless dragon. i would argue that we can't trust this number because toothless shouldn't be able to get off the ground at all at that point, he's basically a horse. also no canon source (afaik). his weight cannot be surmised.

other adaptations for long distance flight include long narrow wings (check) and the ability to minimise the number of wingbeats required to stay adrift. we see numerous sequences of toothless soaring comfortably with little movement, such as every single travelling scene in rtte. moreover, we can clearly see when toothless flies that his wings are designed to catch the wind and updrafts.

strong shoulder and chest muscles are key for wingbeats over flights, and we actually see toothless become progressively bulkier and therefore more muscled throughout the trilogy! if anything, by httyd 3, he's the best suited for long flight he's ever been!

another thing is the way you fly. according to peter knight at birdful:

"Wandering Albatrosses utilize a strategy called dynamic soaring while traveling over the ocean. This involves swooping down to just above the wave tops, where wind speed is accelerated, and then swooping back up to gain altitude."

tooothless does this all the time. usually in a dramatic fashion, but this is an established strategy, and he's comfortable doing it with hiccup on his back. see: the opening sequence of httyd2 for a shot of toothless soaring close to the waves before pulling up.

and in httyd 3 (map scene with astrid) hiccup literally remarks that toothless has been working on his solo gliding. as a disabled dragon, gliding is key to toothless' movements, and so it stands to reason that he's gotten good at it. this can only help his long-distance flight and endurance.

TL;DR: GRIMMEL IS STUPID AS SHIT AND NIGHT FURIES ARE ADAPTED FOR LONG-DISTANCE FLIGHT

thank you for reading <3

[violet-moonstone]

Re-writing HTTYD 2

I've made posts about this before but I want to write in more detail why I feel like the second HTTYD film is less thematically consistent than the first, and what changes I would make to address that.

One of the reasons I love the first movie is because it always seemed to me to be first and foremost a movie about identity and being true to oneself. The main conflict, or at least one of the main conflicts, is Hiccup having to choose between: A) the life he always thought he wanted, which comes with social acceptance but requires him to reject who he really is; or B) a life where he defines his identity but risks social rejection from his father and his community.

Ultimately he chooses option B, and luckily for him, the people around him change to realize that Hiccup’s real identity doesn’t have to be rejected, but can be accepted and even change how they see themselves and the world. (Which is why I believe this movie appeals so strongly to viewers who are neurodivergent and/or queer…and as a deconstructed Christian/agnostic with strict parents, this movie really hit home for religious reasons as well.)

There are other plot lines in the film too — like the grown ups trying to find the dragon lair (which directly leads to Hiccup being able to show that his way of interacting with dragons can protect the community) and Astrid’s one-sided rivalry-turned romance with Hiccup (which highlights Hiccup’s discomfort with his new popular role and then later on provides him with an ally who can help save their parents and the dragons). These smaller plot lines help to strengthen the main plot and don’t distract too much from it (although I know there are criticisms about the way Hiccup and Astrid’s romance was written, both in this movie and the franchise as a whole. I think a lot of it is valid but IMO it at least doesn’t detract majorly from the main theme of the first movie).

Following that, we have HTTYD 2. We start with a restless, lost Hiccup who doesn’t know what his future holds but knows that he feels stifled by expectations to be chieftain. The movie unfortunately doesn’t go very far with this. We see him have the title of chieftain put upon him before he’s ready, due to Stoick’s death….and there doesn’t seem to be any tension afterwards. In fact after Stoick’s funeral, we don’t really see Hiccup struggle with his role or his grief in the second or third movie.

Another major plot line is Hiccup’s relationship with his mother. There’s a lot of possibility here to explore conflicting feelings of bitterness and a desire to rekindle their relationship…but this also doesn’t go anywhere. Hiccup immediately forgives his mother for not trying to return to him, and their relationship is smooth-sailing for the rest of the movie and in the third as well.

Finally, we have the plot line with Drago, which does three major things. 1) it leads to Stoick’s death (already discussed); 2) it reinforces the bond between Hiccup and Toothless when they overcome the power of the Alpha's control (very powerful and emotionally moving...I love this moment and I think it's a great parallel to the hand scene in the first movie); and 3) it provides a foil for Hiccup (which is also super interesting but sort of lackluster in comparison to Viggo, who was a more fleshed out character)

I think all of these plot lines are interesting, but because they don’t do very much to enrich each other, they sort of just happen sequentially without enough connective tissue to make any of them as strong as they could be.

I’ve mentioned before that I would prefer the plot of the second movie to be extended into two, with Valka being an antagonist (as she was originally planned to be) in the second and Drago being the main villain of the third movie. Here’s how I would do it:

The second movie should continue the focus of Hiccup’s listlessness and search for a new, more fulfilling identity. Meeting his mother should present him with a new choice, somewhat like the choice he had in the first movie. He could abandon his old life and his responsibilities and stay with his mother, living more freely (but perhaps being pressured to do morally questionable things for what she thinks is the greater good), or he could remain with his father and community but feel stifled by their expectations.

I don’t have the particular events figured out, but I think it would be narratively satisfying if Hiccup’s choice is once again a middle point between extremes. Maybe he does become chieftain, but he finds ways to share the pressure with his friends and community so that it doesn’t overwhelm him. Or maybe he abdicates his position as chief to someone else (cough Astrid cough) but still remains part of the community while having time to explore and live life the way he wants to. (Also at some point in there, Valka has a redemption arc? Maybe after Stoick’s death?…Something like her actions put him in danger and then she has to re-evaluate if she can continue to justify the choices she makes, idk still workshopping)

I do think Drago should be alluded to or even appear and cause chaos in the second movie (maybe Stoick's death is still tied to him in some way?), but mostly to build up tension and suspense so that when he’s properly introduced in the third movie, it’s after a lot of anticipation and fear.

Then the third movie could be wholly devoted to two things: Hiccup dealing with his father’s death, and Hiccup dealing with Drago. And these two things should be strongly related. I think it would be really fascinating if in his grief, he finds himself becoming more and more like Drago — more cruel and willing to do whatever it takes to seek revenge. Then he would have another choice on his hands — does he become like the very man he wants to seek revenge against, or does he stay true to himself and find healthier ways to heal from his grief and trauma? Again I don’t have particular events figured out, but Toothless and Hiccup's friends should be an integral part to all of this. Like I imagine Hiccup increasingly putting Toothless and the other riders in dangerous/exhausting situations trying to find Drago…only to realize that he’s mistreating them in a way very similar to how Drago mistreats his dragons and soldiers. I think that would be very powerful.

So yeah, that’s how I would change the franchise. Still three movies, but with more intention in how the themes are explored.

I feel like…I’ve just given myself more fanfiction homework, lol. I do think it would be fun to write these at some point. Once I’m finished the major fic I’m already working on.

[harleyspinn]

i think it would make sense if dragons were a sort of animal confined primarily to the arctic circle and seen maybe as a bizarre, potentially invasive species to the south (aka the rest of the world)

vikings and everybody who lived in the arctic during the viking age being the only groups to know what it’s like to be around dragons, fighting the war from the first movie for centuries until hiccup comes around

those on the closer continents (europe, northern canada) know almost nothing. they know dragons are arctic-region animals but the thought of a fire breathing flying reptile makes them hard for people to comprehend that they’re real, meaning that any average mainlander thinks the stories of Dragons are glorified and exaggerated to the point of near-fairytale

personally i like to pretend that the dragons never split from berk (i still haven’t seen the third movie due to Personal Emotion Reasons) and i think it’d be fun to explore hiccup and the riders as they expand their coexistence with dragons to the rest of the vikings who still fight them, and eventually introduce them to the mainland as more and more viking groups stop fighting and start to integrate dragons into their lives. obv the dragons don’t need to expand into their customs (mainlanders who are scared of them or just irritated at change would introduce the “invasive species” situation), hiccup would simply want to ensure peace and safety for every human and dragon as they live their increasingly peaceful lives

if it needs to be realistic, we can say that the dragons did kind of die out, maybe in the same way that vikings did AKA by assimilating into other cultures and eventually evolving into some cool modern day animal that are more plausible to live in our real world now. like they did exist but now they don’t, and people make movies and legends about them and stuff, but since they as a species never really expanded beyond the arctic circle so few humans knew them as they were. does that make any sense????