#httyd analysis

[chokkobun]

hiccup is left-handed. by all means, this is a famous observation within the fandom! still, something i haven’t seen people discuss much is how significant it is for hiccup to be a vinstri (ᚢᛁᚾᛋᛏᚱᛁ, “left-handed man”) within his broader cultural and historical context. and what a good job the animated movies do with that!

it’s established within the HTTYD movies, and even the series such as RoB and RTTE, that hiccup is a lefty: he uses his left hand to write, sketch, and reach for objects! while it could be justified as it being simply an animation quirk, i bet it was a conscious narrative decision to act as a constant reminder of his character’s otherness, if nothing else.

so it’s no surprise that when hiccup first meets toothless in the woods, he’s holding a dagger in his left hand. he’s stunned and amazed because he managed to get a night fury, and his first instinct is to point the blade right at him without much thought. this is his natural state: we always tend to use our dominant body parts, especially when we are surprised, etc etc

but as he approaches toothless, he starts to hold the blade with both of his hands, using his dominant left to steady his trembling right. right then and there, he’s trying to be what he thinks a “viking” should be. that’s how we start his monologue:

even though i find it hard to believe that the animators and writers had any critical concerns for historical accuracy (or even authenticity, arguably), primarily using medieval scandinavian/“viking” motifs more for aesthetics, there are, nonetheless, a couple of interesting points here that we can connect to history... sooooo hold my hand and fall with me into this rabbit hole i guess 👇 (i will continue this below just so this post isn’t too long on everyone’s dash)

anyway, old norse warrior traditions were deeply rooted in duties of honour, law and vengeance. this latter pillar was seen more as a duty and even had a special name, hefnd (ᚼᛁᚠᚾᛏ, “right of vengeance”). rather than a personal vendetta guided by one’s own morals, it was a solemn and binding obligation, one that was tied to one’s kin and tribe, and the memory of the slain. the sagas, our primary sources of knowledge on old norse history, are filled with accounts of men who made vows to avenge a father, brother, spouse or friend. 

in the HTTYD universe, we can even consider that it’s one of the reasons why the berkians are so keen on exterminating the dragons: it is their right, for many of them have fallen to those beasts, as stoick himself puts it. therefore, it’s a continuous cycle of death and revenge justified by customary, borderline religious rites, mostly tied to odin worship (who was not always portrayed as a just god, mind, but this discussion is for another post, otherwise i would be filling this with academic jargon and footnotes).

what is most important here is to know that hefnd, by its societal and cultural construction, was expected, and we can see that in berk as well: dragon-slaying is what makes berkians be berkians to begin with. so, back to the toothless and hiccup’s first meeting scene...

can we really say that hiccup thought he was executing hefnd here? yes!

other than his speech format resembling a heitstrenging (ᚼᛁᛁᛏᛋᛏᚱᛁᚾᚴᛁᚾᚴ, “a vow of strength”), which was a promise made while a man stood before a beast (slain or about to be) and swore to perform great deeds, generally including the killing of a specific foe, there’s another detail in hiccup’s speech*:

* (p.s breaking a vow of strength would, by custom, bring immense shame upon the man and his entire family.)

hiccup says, “then i’ll cut out your heart and take it to my father.” this isn’t just a tough-sounding line; it’s a direct reference to old norse heroic literature. the act of taking an enemy’s heart for revenge is a motif found within the epics, though it is a rare and extreme example of vengeance, not a usual practice. 

the most famous and oft-cited instance doesn’t come from the icelandic sagas, which tend to be more grounded in historical reality, but from the legendary material, specifically the tale of hervor in the hervarar saga ok heiðreks. in a particularly gruesome part, a character named hjálmar defeats the champion angantýr and the other berserkers, but is himself mortally wounded. the saga describes hjálmar asking his companion to cut out angantýr’s heart and to take it with them.

another and perhaps even more famous instance is found in the myths surrounding sigurd the dragon slayer of the völsunga saga: in some versions, he takes reginn’s heart rather than his head. 

hiccup is most likely taking inspiration from these two tales, even if they were not common traditions by the legal and social norms of medieval scandinavia. it comes with the fact of it being the mark of a legend, not a typical man: hjarta (ᚼᛁᛅᚱᛏᛅ, “hearts”) in norse thought carried memory and identity, so piercing/crushing/eating another being’s heart was like taking their entire spirit, submitting them to you (as seen in snorri’s edda with loki) or vanishing them forever. taking a heart, since it carried memories, names and the breath of soul, therefore, was a symbolic act of complete annihilation.

so in this scene, hiccup is trying to perform, to live by the great names. so much so that he changed the position of his blade: in this scene, when he’s seconds away from slaying toothless, he supports his trembling right hand (representing what is expected of him) with his left (representing himself). hiccup, who is already seen by his own people as “not viking enough,” is consciously acting, trying to prove to himself he can fit in, wanting to be a vinstri no longer. he wanted to be víss (ᚢᛁᛋᛋ, “a man”/“a right man”). 

here, it’s important to note: the daily world of the norsemen was built for the right-handed. most tools, from axes for splitting wood to tools for carving bone or wood, would have been crafted with a right-handed grip in mind. a vinstri would have had to adjust, either by using his non-dominant hand or by using tools in a way they were not intended. oftentimes, a vinstri would even be denied participation in some daily tasks and battles, being ostracised and outcasted if they could not adapt. why, you ask?

tactical techniques, battle arrays and, most importantly, the participation in skjaldborg (ᛋᚴᛁᛅᛚᛏᛒᚢᚱᚴ, “shield wall/rampart of shields”). this was the greatest challenge for left-handed warriors, because shield walls relied on a warrior holding his shield in his left hand, protecting his left side and the right side of the man next to him, while his right hand, holding a spear or sword, would then be free to strike. this discipline was what made it possible to create the o so famous unbreakeable barrier we see referenced in movies, comics, etc. left-handed warriors were either placed on the flanks of the formation, so that their unique stance would be less of a liability, and therefore trained to become one of the starting, warcrying soldiers, or they were placed in the skirmishes with bows and arrows instead. if they were not physically apt enough, they were simply denied on the battlefield.

and, as it’s shown in the first movie, hiccup was completely rejected from any participation in action; his lack of technique and his scrawniness are brought up again and again throughout the first movies and well deep into the series. battle was part of an identity, and it was required for you to be a víss.

so, once again: here, he is performing. he wants to be a regular viking so, so bad, and he knows this is his one true chance.

but he’s not like them! his left hand literally stops him.

it’s not that he couldn’t kill a dragon; he clearly could, had the physical opportunity and even the will to do so. he never stuttered while declaring his heitstrenging, and he seemed to perfectly understand his right of vengeance with his tribe as well. it’s just that hiccup didn’t see an enemy in the night fury in front of him.

if he could not see toothless as his enemy then and there, was it even his right to kill him? hefnd is a right reserved only for enemies, those we do not see as kin and that are dishonourable. if he could not see toothless that way, then what honour was there? was this even the right way of becoming víss? are legends built this way?

the short answer is that, yes, some legends are built that way. shame and honour walk hand in hand: egill’s saga is a lot similar to hiccup’s story. he fails socially many times, he’s often described as arriving too late or uninvited and he constantly insults himself in a comedic manner. but despite shame and embarrassment and feeling like he is not víss, he takes his chance anyway, killing others to try and prove himself (often in spaces where he doesn’t even need to be violent, like halls and feasts). a lot of characters do that in old literature to try turning shame into honour, paradoxically painting one as the other. it is a constant struggle to belong at the cost of another.

throughout HTTYD1, hiccup had been debating over the status he would gain if he were to kill this or that dragon; yet, in that single moment, with toothless scared and thinking that would be his end, hiccup finds that he does not want to become that kind of legend.

it is a choice. it is goodness. it is shame. it is everything that egill, sigurd and other heroes do not do.

“i did this.”

he cuts toothless’ ropes down with his left hand. can you guess which hand he used to try and calm down hookfang, too? 

in more than a metaphorical sense, he’s making history with his own hands. he is choosing to be more than an ordinary “viking” (or what he perceives as one, even if some chronicles sing about people needing someone like him). rather than performance, rather than following berk tradition blindly, he’s risking everything to pave the right way, even if that means that’s with what is left of him and that he’ll never really belong anywhere.

it is a delicious, wonderful narrative tool for his journey as a character and i wish people talked about it more!

[arcassiuslux]

Gobber is the perfect madman:

“A downed dragon is a dead dragon.”

—Gobber, httyd 1

We see, in the fight with the Red Death, that the riders use multiple tactics Gobber taught them to fight her.

Like seeing her shot limit:

Or testing her blind spots and disorienting her with noise:

But I think we forget just how important Gobber was when teaching these kids. His lessons killed the Red Death.

And it all comes from that line at the start. The fight with Hiccup & Toothless and the Red Death is great, we all love it, and I’m sure I’m not the first person to say this, but he went for the wings.

Hiccup used Gobber’s lessons not only to test the Red Death, but to finish her off.

Gobber, the madman you are, hats off to you for reaching these dumbass kids.

[000marie198]

I love the continuity details of a Zippleback dragon's stealth in the Httyd franchise

We're often so focused on Toothless' stealth that we miss out on just how good a hideous zippleback is at being stealthy, whether it's Barf and Belch or a random one.

In the first movie, the stealth and sneakiness was introduced to be among the main qualities of this dragon during the arena training Gobber was conducting and I recall Fishlegs mentioning "Plus eleven stealth times two" when he got to the Hideous Zippleback.

Now, in the cartoon series, this very fact is shown quite clearly without ever outright mentioning it.

Notice how most of the time Barf and Belch are out of sight and we can sort of hear them chittering and growling but it's impossible to discern where their sounds are coming from. Because the spot we expect the sound to be coming from is often empty. This will take careful notice in the rewatches.

The more obvious cases which are easy to recall I am listing below:

First from very first movie. You all remember the arena scene and just how sneaky those two are. Besides that, remember the Dragon's Nest scene when Toothless was caught into the call while flying Hiccup and Astrid? There was a Zippleback that flew right next to them, it looked at them too and I remember it was the least easy to notice because it hadn't shown up loudly like the monstrous nightmares and nadder and wasn't heard as loudly like the gronckles . The rest of the acclimating dragons were pretty easy to hear and sense, not that zippleback till it quite literally flew next to them (there was another in the bg on their right side which was even more silent).

In the Twinsanity episode, all dragons were herded off the island to keep them hidden and safe while the Berserkers were visiting. Except Barf and Belch who were roaming free and out of supervision. But they were so good at hiding that despite running around all over the village, Dagur or his entarouge didn't even notice the dragon, they were good at not being noticed. Hiccup, Astrid and Toothless managed to keep the dragon out of Dagur's attention completely until they barged into the Great Hall themselves.

Then later, in episode 4 of DoB, I remember Tuffnut accidentally waking a wild zippleback. But that dragon was so silent that Tuffnut at first confused it for Barf and Belch. And then later confused his own dragon for a wild zippleback.

Then in A View to a Skrill pt.2, when Hiccup went out searching for tha twins and ended up on Outcast Island where he found that Alvin and Dagur had the Skrill, he didn't even notice that the twins were right next to him. Including Barf and Belch. Nobody saw these four till the outright jumped into the script.

Next, The Zippleback Experience. This entire episode is incredible in displaying the Zippleback's stealth. Barf and Belch were shadowing Hiccup and Toothless the entire episode without revealing themselves till last moment of each shenanigan. They managed to fill up his hut with fish with no one the visor, were always there but unseen, and managed to tail Hiccup while remaining hidden from him and then also followed him to rescue him when he got caught, again while remaining hidden from the kidnappers. All with the stealth skills attributed to it's species.

Hookfang's movements are loud, Stormfly spines getting raised amd her squawks are distinct and reveal her movements, Meatlugs hovering can be heard from anywhere. Even Toothless has his signature night fury screech when he dives and that lovely plasma load-up sound, even while night fury is among the stealthiest of dragons. Barf and Belch however? They make no noise in their movement unless they wanna explode stuff. Their heads are always slithering but you cannot hear them. And even when you do hear their light dragon sounds when they speak, it's impossible to pinpoint their location.

There's probably more such little moments scattered throughout but these are the ones I could recall at the top of my head.

I absolutely love this very subtle, never mentioned but always shown continuity detail regarding the Hideous Zippleback dragons.

[liehaheart]

Httyd analysis

You know what I love the most about Crushing it ? It's how much of a reverse parallel to How to pick your dragon it is.

First there is Stoick overall attitude towards flying a dragon.

In How to pick your dragon he is very much against it instead being dead set in traditions and the Viking way. He ignores every suggestion from Hiccup about the advantages it would give him and the village unless it is parroted back by Gobber.

In Crushing it, it is shown Stoick very much missed flying as he had made sure Thornado's saddle stayed shiny despite his friend being gone for three whole years.

He even said so when him and Hiccup were looking for the Rumblehorn: "Ah, it's good to be back up in the air again."

Then, once Hiccup did get on a dragon, Stoick basically took over Hiccup, riding Toothless in his place and cutting off his son when he tries to give direction to his friends leading to one of Hiccup's famous quip : "Can anybody even see me back here ?!"

In Crushing it, the opposite happens.

When Hiccup and Stoick arrived back on the Edge and are apprised of the current situation, Stoick, being Chief, immediately try to take charge. Except, this time, Hiccup is the one who cut him off and gives instructions to his friends while his father is caught by surprise.

Finally there is the way he behaves towards the dragon threat in each episode.

In How to pick your dragon, Stoick is so sure as to why the Thunderdrum is attacking their fishing ships while Hiccup thinks there maybe another reason and it's only when they discovered Thornado's injured friend they realised Hiccup had been the one who was right.

In Crushing it, it is Hiccup who is so sure of what the behaviour of the Rumblehorn means and that, he maybe forced to deal with him the old fashioned away while Stoick is the one who realised something doesn't add up and turns out to be proven right.

And, in the end he bonds with his two dragon friends because they all shared the same desire to protect what they hold dear at all cost.

[kingofthewilderwest]

You know, music headcanons are great, but I remember in past years being dismayed at the number of modern day headcanons for Hiccup doing guitar. Do you really think he's the type of vanilla guitar dude bro in high school who can barely play three chords and gathers around the 2,153,535 other guitar players who think they're the shit at basic-ass rock music?

Guys. Hiccup's dorky. He's adorkable. He's an orch dork. He plays violin. He's in high school orchestra class. Hiccup is sitting in the middle of the first violins getting bored and making sarcastic remarks about missing the offbeats on measure 33. I don't know what to tell you. It's violin.

[saturnniidae]

Something that kind of frustrates me is how while there's always plenty of conversation about Hiccup's mistreatment by Berk and how things were before and in the beginning of the first movie, people don't seem to understand that obviously while it was partially out of his control due to his weak constitution/physical inability to do certain tasks, Hiccup never really wanted to be like everyone else.

He wanted to be accepted obviously – "I just want to be one of you guys," but we never see him actively wanting to make an effort to change himself to conform to Berk's standards. He wanted to be accepted among his peers as himself, he had his own way of doing things that he refused to change or compromise on, (this is literally shown and stated be a standard behavior; it's why Stoick was so exasperated with him, why their relationship deteriorated as his childhood progressed!!)

It is the very reason everyone hated him so much. When he started doing well in training he was still unhappy because while he was using tricks he learned from interactions with Toothless, he still wasn't doing things the way he wanted, he was finally making Stoick proud but it was only by succeeding in a way expected of a viking of Berk and by working towards a goal he no longer desired to achieve.

He never wanted to be like his peers, to be the ideal viking and perfect son, he just wanted to be himself and be accepted for it.

[noahtherian]

Will be posting two essays today to make up for yesterday here’s the first one

Hiccup Horrendous Haddock III: The Most Undiagnosed Autistic Character DreamWorks Ever Accidentally Wrote

By Noah Zeh — Reader, Logic Defender, and Very Autistic

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Thesis

Hiccup Haddock from How to Train Your Dragon is one of the most autistic‑coded protagonists in modern animation — not because DreamWorks labeled him, but because his behavior, communication style, emotional patterns, sensory traits, and relationships align so closely with autistic lived experience that it’s impossible not to see it. As an autistic person myself, I don’t just “relate” to Hiccup — I recognize him. His struggles, strengths, misunderstandings, hyperfocus, and unconventional thinking are all deeply autistic traits portrayed with sincerity and depth.

This essay argues that Hiccup is not simply “quirky” or “different.” He is autistic‑coded in a way that matters.

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I. “He Doesn’t Fit In” — And Not in the Cute Protagonist Way

From the very first scene of HTTYD 1, Hiccup is framed as fundamentally out of sync with the rest of Berk. The villagers are loud, physical, and socially cohesive; Hiccup is quiet, awkward, and constantly out of step.

When Gobber gestures vaguely at him and says he needs to “stop all… this,” Hiccup responds with the iconic, confused line:

“But… you just gestured to all of me.”

This is not insecurity — it’s literal interpretation. He genuinely doesn’t understand the implied meaning.

Even after he changes Berk forever, he doesn’t suddenly become loud or socially intuitive. He remains himself — quieter, more analytical, more observant — and the village adapts to him, not the other way around.

---

II. Communication Differences: Stoick Loves Him, But They Speak Different Languages

Stoick and Hiccup’s communication mismatch is one of the emotional cores of the franchise.

In HTTYD 1, Stoick tries to have a “serious talk” with Hiccup, but it collapses instantly:

Stoick: “You’re not a Viking. You’re not my son.”

Hiccup: is devastated for a few minutes and then runs off to go help the dragons completely over it lmao

Stoick uses vague, emotional language. Hiccup responds literally.

When Hiccup tries to confess about Toothless, he stammers, hesitates, and shuts down. Stoick interrupts and assumes the worst. This is a textbook autistic communication breakdown: one person overwhelmed and struggling to articulate, the other misreading the silence as defiance.

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III. Special Interests: Dragons and Inventing Aren’t Hobbies — They’re His Whole Brain

Hiccup’s sketchbook in HTTYD 1 is filled with pages of dragon anatomy, behavior notes, and diagrams.

His forge work is the same. He spends nights designing Toothless’ prosthetic tail fin, testing it, adjusting it, rebuilding it. This isn’t a casual hobby. It’s a special interest that shapes his identity and the entire plot.

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IV. Unconventional Problem Solving = Autistic Ingenuity

In the dragon training ring, while the other teens attack the dragons, Hiccup studies them. He notices patterns:

• The Gronckle calms down when fed fish.

• The Deadly Nadder relaxes when given grass.

• The Monstrous Nightmare reacts to fear, not aggression.

He solves problems through pattern recognition, not brute force.

The first contact scene with Toothless is especially autistic‑coded. Hiccup mirrors Toothless’ movements — slow, deliberate, nonverbal communication — until Toothless allows him to touch him.

This is how many autistic people naturally connect.

---

V. Social Naivety and Being Easily Manipulated

In HTTYD 2, Hiccup insists:

“I can change him.” (about Drago)

Buddy you are like every teenage girl ever about a boy they like.

Everyone else warns him it’s impossible. Hiccup assumes good faith even when it’s dangerous — a common autistic trait.

In RTTE, Viggo manipulates him repeatedly because Hiccup takes statements at face value and struggles to detect malicious intent.

This isn’t stupidity. It’s sincerity in a world that doesn’t always reward it.

---

VI. Emotional Expression: Flat, Blunt, Honest, and Limited Range

He has four modes;Elated, Okay and furious and Devastated

Just those four.

Hiccup narrates his own emotional state out loud when overwhelmed:

“I’m okay! … Less okay.”

He uses sarcasm as a shield:

“Thank you for nothing, you useless reptile.”

He misses implied meaning constantly. When Astrid calls him crazy in HTTYD 1, he responds:

“I know.”

He interprets it literally, not emotionally.

His emotional world is intense but not always externally expressive — a deeply autistic pattern.

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VII. Sensory Traits: Crowds, Overwhelm, and Stimming

In HTTYD 1, Hiccup says outright:

“I don’t do well with crowds.”

Throughout the trilogy, he:

• rubs his neck

• taps his fingers

• shifts his weight

• talks to himself (“Note to self: don’t do that.”)

These are all stims.

Flying Toothless is essentially one giant sensory‑seeking experience — wind, motion, pressure, adrenaline. It’s rhythmic and regulating. No wonder he’s happiest in the air.

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VIII. Empathy, Loyalty, and Self‑Sacrifice

When asked why he didn’t kill the dragon in training, Hiccup says:

“I wouldn’t kill him because he looked as frightened as I was.”

This is intense emotional empathy.

He repeatedly risks his life for Toothless — shielding him from Stoick, diving into danger, refusing to abandon him even when everyone else says to run.

His loyalty is fierce and unconditional.

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IX. Bonds with Animals a Lot Better — Because Animals Communicate in a Way He Understands

The first touch scene between Hiccup and Toothless is one of the most autistic‑coded moments in animation. It’s built on:

• mirroring

• slow movement

• mutual observation

• nonverbal communication

Toothless only trusts him because Hiccup communicates in a way that makes sense to him.

Astrid doesn’t truly understand Hiccup until she sees him with Toothless. She watches silently as Hiccup mirrors Toothless’ body language and Toothless responds with affection. It’s the first time she sees who he really is.

Hiccup bonds with animals because they communicate clearly, consistently, and without judgment — something autistic people often find far easier than human social rules.

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Conclusion: Hiccup Isn’t Just Relatable — He’s Autistic‑Coded in a Way That Matters

Hiccup Haddock is not “quirky.” He is not “just different.” He is autistic‑coded in a way that resonates deeply with autistic viewers — especially autistic teens who grew up misunderstood, underestimated, and out of sync with their communities.

His strengths come from his autistic traits:

• creativity

• empathy

• hyperfocus

• unconventional thinking

• loyalty

• pattern recognition

• deep bonds with animals

• impulsiveness (both a strength and a weakness)

He is a rare example of an autistic hero whose difference doesn’t hold him back — it saves the world.

And that representation matters.

[tillythemenace]

WHY ASTRID'S CHANGES IN THE LIVE ACTION HURT HICCSTRID

Very long post ahead.

I will be VERY real rn. I am a very hardcore Hiccstrid shipper but I HATE stupid pointless fanservice. And in the LA, there’s so much and at that point in the story is really dumb… It fundamentally changes what made them great in HTTYD1, Especially Astrid.

I talked about it here in my Astrid review, but the way those two scenes in particular misunderstood their core dynamic which SHOULD BE ALLIES FIRST AND THEN ROMANCE.

Their scenes felt just so weird to me. Hiccup is an utter simp and not in the good way… He lets Astrid be even meaner to him. Astrid herself feels so much meaner while getting her OG ending is jarring. She legit threatened him to take his house like hello?! Why would she ever say that? Besides the obviously stupid decision to make her want to be Chief out of nowhere and super OOC, making her hate him for being “privileged” adds such an inconsistent and horrible layer to their “romance”. Cause now Hiccup just takes it… Hiccup may have been weak and meek at first but he was NEVER a pushover. And Astrid having a new "motivation" to hate him is a misunderstanding of her character.

Astrid saying "He's never where he should be"

is very important, cause this shows how Astrid really sees Hiccup at first. Someone that is not VIKING LIKE and is a nuisance. He SHOULD be viking like but he isn't, he's not doing what he's supposed to be and he's not really trying in dragon training at that point. Astrid's disliking of Hiccup stemmed STRICTLY from the fact that Hiccup didn't take his position as Berk's future seriously, she just wanted to protect her village and Hiccup was clearly a liability WITH HIS INVENTIONS that caused more harm than good and THAT'S why he was looked down upon, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS PRIVILEGED. It's SUCH a pointless and dumb change that EVEN IF Astrid came from nothing as she said in LA, it would still make no sense. Now listen, THIS LINE right here could potentially mean that Hiccup being cut some slack could be related to being the chief's son, YES. I'm not saying that Hiccup didn't get special treatment by Stoick cause if it was anyone else? Stoick probably would shipped them off a long time ago. But understanding why Hiccup was there has more to do with the fact that Gobber insisted to Stoick, and the more he got older, the more he needed to protect himself somehow. Putting Hiccup in training is something that would've happened sooner or latter whether he liked it or not. Hiccup's arc was never about "humbling" himself or "recognize his privileges" he was bullied because he was weak and non viking ffs like PLEASE stay focused... Him being the Chief's son was never an actual point of contention for Astrid OR the gang.

Pointing out the real reasons Astrid hated him is very important cause she left him well enough alone for the most part even tho she was mildly annoyed he was a liability to their safety (which is what Astrid cared more about, "Our parent's war") stuff started changing AFTER his success, cause Astrid is prideful yes, she wants to be the best warrior, in her core she's still human and she did get jealous Hiccup of ALL PEOPLE started winning cause of UNUSUAL UNVIKING LIKE methods.

Their added scenes in the Book of Dragons and in the Kill Ring absolutely make my blood boil. Not all new Hiccstrid scenes are good just because they’re Hiccstrid.

In Book of Dragons LA scene, he’s actively insisting on Astrid that dragons may be good when at that point in the story he was NOT SURE HIMSELF YET. In the OG Hiccup was ALWAYS VERY cautious. This added scene is so weird to me because yes, why would Astrid listen to him? AND threaten him?

The fact is that Astrid in HTTYD1 left Hiccup well enough alone because she really didn’t care about him until after he started “cheating” in her eyes. They skipped the forge scene where that point is driven further:

“I normally don’t care what people do but you’re acting weird”

Astrid being sus of Hiccup is important because she NEVER CARED for him at first and THEN she started to notice that he was acting weird. And with GOOD REASON, unlike everyone else, Astrid didn't look for the easy way out, EVER. Astrid was methodical, logical and yes viking-like aggression when fighting but most of all FAIR. She EARNED her place and she wanted Hiccup to do the same. She may have not seen a new way yet, but at that point in the story, the methods Hiccup was using might as well have been cheating.

Cause yeah, “No one just GETS as good as you (Hiccup) do, especially you (Hiccup)” "Are you training with someone?" She could sense that Hiccup was getting better out of NOWHERE and his methods were clearly... dishonest for lack of a better word in her POV. like we KNOW that isn't true in Hiccup and the Audience POV since WE know what's happening, but SHE doesn't. She followed Hiccup around for weeks and he was acting super sus and evading questions, clearly hiding something. That alone made her fume. Like Hiccup being an Astrid simp the whole movie is just so... superficial. At first we KNOW he was shooting his shot but LATER, AFTER TOOTHLESS, he's mostly nervous around her because SHE WAS ABOUT TO FIND OUT HIS SECRET, his priorities change. He's focused on a far more important thing.

HICCSTRID AS ALLIES FIRST

As I talked here, The Cove scene is so much more deep and important to Astrid becoming an ALLY to Hiccup first. She realized that she needs to protect Toothless.

That's why in the Kill Ring LA scene, I got so angry when they BOTH completely forget about HIM and they make it about ASTRID and her reputation and I absolutely HATED their new dialogue. Astrid didn't need to VERBALIZE she was going to support Hiccup. I don't know if they are allergic to subtlety but her saying "I will be with you whatever may come" was already a given in the last scene. SHE was the one that asked Hiccup "What do WE do?"

And something that DID make my blood boil is how Hiccup cared MORE about Astrid's reputation and her relationship with Stoick (something that was not even shown before even in the LA movie) OVER TOOTHLESS SAFETY?! No. Just no. THIS is cheap ass simping fanservice and I hate it. WHY would Hiccup care about Astrid's reputation in THIS VERY MOMENT? When he's about to expose himself to the whole village about dragons? Why did he suddenly forget he's doing this because of TOOTHLESS and his discoveries about dragons and making the world peaceful?? It also doesn't help that we didn't even SEE a scene with Stoick and Astrid together, it was just TOLD to us that suddenly Stoick always wanted a girl? and that he adores Astrid?? like? show not tell... great. And then because we don't even see a single scene with Astrid and Stoick in the LA, when Stoick suddenly gets super mad at Astrid for helping Hiccup, he's like "AND YOU!" pointing at her, like? why you mad bro? why do u feel betrayed? as if you had ANY interactions with her... but I digress...

What actually happened:

THIS right here, has MORE MEANING than Hiccup wanting to "protect her reputation" and not wanting her to get involved in the LA?? like? again, why would he say that here and not the previous Cove scene when she said she was going to support you? Why make this dumb change in the worst time possible?

Skipping these lines to me is criminal to the FOUNDATION that is their relationship. Both Hiccup and Astrid in the first movie are very interesting in the sense that them becoming allies to me is far more important for the plot than them being a couple. The very base of their relationship SHOULD BE protection of their people and dragons and how THAT is the what aligns them both. I don't want to have changes on their characters if it means romance (and this goes for RTTE as well cause I do NOT like a lot of what they did with Hiccstrid there), that's not why I ship them, it's because they work so GOOD as allies FIRST.

Removing this dialogue that is SO POWERFUL undermines so much not only Hiccup's relationship with Toothless but also Astrid's actual ROLE as an ally. Astrid is not a good ally because she's a die hard for Hiccup at that moment, she's a good ally because she's ALSO protecting Toothless AND WILLING TO DO WHAT IT TAKES AS WELL to protect him in case anything goes wrong. And because her being the very FIRST one to changed her mind, her support is super important to Hiccup- THAT'S why he stayed, NOT because he has a crush on Astrid or viceversa.

Hiccup needed an ally FIRST, not a girlfriend. He was completely alone, he was about to leave, and Astrid being the first one, regardless of if he had or not a crush on her, is valuable to him because he not only admired her but he respected her. She was the model viking, and if he can change her, he can try to change everyone else now that he has backup. Sure he liked Astrid but romance is not in his priority list, especially after Toothless, and quite frankly, it wasn't on Astrid's priority list either. What unites them first and foremost is their drive to protect, and once Astrid saw that in Hiccup, she saw a new side of him; not the weak nerd that messed up and didn't seem to care about being a proper viking, but a protector, which is what made her respect him.

Hiccstrid as a ship is very very fun to explore and analyse but when u actually take into account WHY they started that way and why they work... The Live Action not only changes Astrid but in consequence it changes Hiccup and Astrid's relationship and what makes them good, and to me THAT is what suffers the most in their dynamic. All their scenes to me felt so weird and with 0 build up and chemistry. I don't like fanservice if it has to change the characters for them to work... I HATE Hiccstrid fanservice because in the LA it gives them MUCH more focus than Hiccup and Toothless's actual bond, and the Kill Ring scene is the proof. And god how I hated that dialogue... I don't want them to be putting Hiccstrid above what makes HTTYD great and that is HICCUP AND TOOTHLESS'S BOND. PERIOD. (Something rtte and httyd3 also suffer for btw but that discussion is for another day)

Hiccstrid is great yes, not only because of how they started but because of what they became. I truly appreciate their friendship and ally-ship so much. I love a LOT of their romance and I think it's actually really mature, so it pains me to see ppl reduce it to its bare minimum...