#ingary

[book--brackets]

CW Preliminary Round: Poll 6

The Brooklyn House from The Kane Chronicles by Rick Riordan

Henrietta, Virginia from The Raven Cycle by Maggie Stiefvater

Cabeswater from The Raven Cycle by Maggie Stiefvater

Neverland from Peter Pan by J. M. Barrie

Ingary from Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones

The Moving Castle from Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones

see results

Voting ended onApr 29, 2024

[pawnmower]

Edit: thanks guys! I’ve decided to read it if I ever feel a sudden urge to, but that time is not right now. I’ll probably read it before I die, though. Thanks!

Should I read castle in the air? I’m entirely open to a sequel, but I can’t find out for the life of me what kind of sequel it is. Is it romance? Is it mostly Sophie and co. Or is it something else totally? Is it just another story that is completely separate but takes place in Ingary? Does it have similar themes? Is the romance good? Should I just stick to hallucinating about what happens after or is it worth reading?

IS IT AS GOOD AS HMC?

Please tell me because I can’t tell from any of my extensive research (googling) about it

[howl-core]

I love your account so much! Quick question (that could definitely have a long answer): which era of fashion do you see HMC inhabiting? There are certain context clues, like velvet and petticoats, but it seems DWJ kept it intentionally vague. She mentions the world being a fairy tale brought to life, but what kind of storybook, is my question.

Hi!! Oh my god I’m so sorry it took me this long to answer this😭….. but still! Thank you:D I LOVE this question, especially because we don’t really have a definitive ‘canon’ answer. I’m so curious what Diana herself would say... but even though we sadly can no longer ask her, I think in some ways not knowing can be even better, because it gives us so much freedom! Since you seem amenable to it, I would love to indulge in a long, needlessly thorough answer, to make up for how long it took me to reply:

I think there are two factors to consider. Number one is, “If Ingary is set in an era based on one from our world, what are the clues in the text we can use to help narrow down which era(s) it could be?”

The second factor is, “Ingary is a fantasy land, so does it mirror an era from our world at all? And in what part of our world?”

However, regardless of which “factor” you ascribe to regarding Ingary, it’s helpful to have as much textual evidence on hand about clothing in Ingary as possible when forming an idea of it overall. I skimmed through my copy of HMC and tried to find as many notable descriptions of clothes as possible (which was not as labor-intensive as it sounds, I promise!! By now I know the story very well so I already knew roughly where to find everything.) Here is what I found:

- The hat shop!! Right off the bat, we learn that there are hats made of straw, felt, velvet, and silk; they can be decorated with veiling and ‘hidden twinkles’, feathers, flowers and fruit made from wax and silk, and that they can be wide-brimmed, or bonnets, or ‘smart’.

- Clothing items mentioned in the Mayday scene: “Trailing silk sleeves”, “trailing cloaks and long sleeves and stamping buckled boots they would never have dreamed of wearing on a working day”

- The iconic blue-and-silver suit, of course, is on separate occasions described as “fantastical” and “flamboyant”; on Mayday Sophie observes that “His [Howl’s] sleeves trailed longer than any in the Square, all scalloped edges and silver insets.” When Sophie is mending it after the Green Slime Incident, she cuts it into triangles. It is unclear to me whether the suit actually consists of triangles of fabric, or if Sophie is just cutting triangles out of it: “She hobbled up and fetched the blue-and-silver suit, which she spent the rest of the day cutting little blue triangles out of in order to make a patchwork sort of skirt.” (p. 107) “Poor Lettie! Sophie thought, putting brisk, tiny stitches round her fifty-seventh blue triangle. Only another forty or so to go.” (p. 168) When Sophie and Michael accidentally gigantify it, we learn that it has “a frill of collar” as well as silver buttons. (p. 183-184)

- The grey-and-scarlet suit — Presumably similar in style to the blue-and-silver one?

- The Witch of the Waste is described as wearing: “A sable wrap drooping from her elbows and diamonds winking all over her dense black dress... the lady’s wide hat [had] real ostrich plume dyed to reflect the pinks and greens and blues winking in the diamonds and yet still look black.” Interestingly, while I guess I could picture this ensemble in a 19th or 18th-century style, the first thing this description made me think of was actually more like a 1940’s prima donna/movie star look lol. (perhaps even a bit like Lady Dimitrescu😳)

- p.101 “[Lettie] was wearing a dress of the same kind of pinks and white as the crowded apple blossom overhead. Her dark hair trailed in glossy curls over one shoulder,”

- p.6 “There was one deep rose outfit [Sophie] made for Lettie… which Fanny said looked as if it had come from the most expensive shop in Kingsbury.”

- In another appearance (p.157) she is described thus: “Her hair, instead of being orderly chestnut curls, was a rippling mass of red, hanging almost to her waist, and she was dressed in floating flutters of auburn and pale yellow.”

- p. 151: The soldiers at the palace are “splendidly dressed” in red and wear white gloves (the ones upstairs wear blue instead of red)

- p.51: “Outside stood a personage wearing a stiff white wig and a wide hat on top of that. He was clothed in scarlet and purple and gold, and he held up a little staff decorated with ribbons like an infant maypole... Scents of clove and orange blossom blew into the room.” (Michael also mentions that he thinks this person is the Chancellor’s clerk)

- Michael wears “his best plum velvet suit” to see the king (p. 68)

- The clothes Howl buys Sophie and Michael: “Several pairs of silk stockings; two parcels of the finest cambric petticoats, with flounces, lace, and satin insets; a pair of elastic-sided boots in dove-grey suede; a lace shawl; and a dress of grey watered silk trimmed with lace that matched the shawl... the lace alone was worth a fortune.” “Michael unwrapped a handsome new velvet suit.” (p. 122)

- Mrs. Pentstemmon’s estate: The trio are greeted by “an elderly footman in black velvet”; Mrs. P herself wears “a gold-mesh mitten, on a gold-topped cane. She wore old-gold silk, in a very stiff and old-fashioned style, finished off with an old-gold headdress not unlike a crown, which tied in a large old-gold bow beneath her gaunt eagle face.” (p. 143)

- Howl’s black ensemble includes “a long jet pendant” as his earring (his single earring?? king) on p.184

…Ah fuck I bet there’s more but that’s enough for now. I think I would want to make a separate post talking about the hints we get about the world *itself*… But one that pops out to me is actually that Howl having an indoor toilet is described as a kingly luxury, lol. That definitely helps us narrow down the time frame. We know that indoor toilets of some kind do exist, but having one is very rare. (I kind of don’t like to treat this as canon lmao… somehow I can’t picture the streets of Market Chipping flooded with chamber pot contents, as realistic as it may be) That puts it probably a little before the 1700’s or earlier, if we are comparing it to our world’s timeline. Interestingly:

“In the 18th century, the first public water supply networks (examples of old water supply piping pictured above) were installed in London by private companies. They served limited areas of the city, allowing the wealthy to access fresh water on tap.” According to the same article, “The S-bend was introduced to the design of flush toilets by Scottish inventor Alexander Cumming in 1775. This modification allows for fresh water to sit in the toilet bowl, at the same time as preventing sewage water and fumes from rising into it, generally improving hygiene. The basic technology has been in use ever since.” (Wild I never knew this lol… trivia night here I come!!)

…So that seems to put us roughly around the 1700s?

That mostly checks out with the descriptions of the clothes, I think! Both of these slides seem to at least somewhat match the descriptions of big/trailing sleeves, boots, the “suits”, and general elaborateness:

And these fantastic timelines are certainly compatible with the descriptions of dresses and hats that we get!

Additionally, although the heyday of European fairytales was a bit earlier (1500’s-late 1600’s), lot of fairytales were still written roughly around this time — Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve published the first official version of La Belle et la Bête (Beauty & the Beast) as we know it today in 1740, Johann Karl August Musäus published the Volksmärchen der Deutschen between 1782 and 1787; and Grimm’s Fairy Tales, or Kinder- und Hausmärchen, was first published in 1813. So this would absolutely work as a time period around which to base a fractured fairytale such as HMC, although the 1500’s and 1600’s would also work… If I weren’t deciding to base this entire argument around ONE mention of a toilet………. but anyways. That’s Option One. (Cannot believe I’m basing all this off a toilet…)

But anyway. Option Two — ignoring *our* world’s timeline entirely— is… me doing whatever the hell I want. And that is, essentially, one big historical mishmash! CHAOS!! A Frankenstein-ed together Victorian, Georgian, Elizabethan, and Edwardian tilt-a-whirl of frocks and finery, along with a dash of style that has no equivalent in our world at all!

I must admit, the Ghibli movie has a bit of influence over my idea of Ingary — I absolutely love the post-Industrial Revolution, quasi-steampunk aesthetics of Ghibli’s Market Chipping, and the mid/late 1800’s fashions that the characters wear! I could easily see the Hatter sisters wearing those lovely side-buttoning Victorian boots, and my god, that film did hats SO much justice. I also adore Markl’s little waistcoat+bow tie+trousers combo in the movie and usually mentally give Michael something similar to that, just in different colors. But overall, I don’t see Book!Ingary being steampunk or post-Industrial, as much as I love it in the film. Perhaps little elements of that here and there, but again, I see it as a big mishmash of multiple eras. I love picturing the King’s guards with frilly Elizabethan collars, pageboy/squire haircuts (even though the King’s chancellor has a white wig, suggesting a more Georgian aesthetic) and puffy little breeches. Lol. I think of Lettie’s pink dress in the orchard as very mid-late 1700’s, perhaps similar in design to the 1763, 1785 or 1790 dresses in the dress timelines above. Mrs. Pentstemmon I imagine in full, damely Victorian splendor. Somehow, as I mentioned before, the Witch of the Waste seems almost outside of this timeline entirely, like a grand 1930’s movie star.

And as for for Howl and Sophie… Well, I actually have a project pending this May Day for my official headcanon of Howl’s blue/silver suit and Sophie’s gray dress;) So perhaps you will see that then! But for now, I will say that Sophie’s grey dress has a fairly consistent design in my mind, but Howl’s suit changes a LOT. Sometimes I imagine him in these very crisp 1700’s clothes, almost like Lestat, but sometimes it’s more of a costumey, wizardly, elegant-but-slapdash getup. Like, the blue and silver patches on his suit are all made from different fabrics, almost like a quilt. And rather than the prim silver-buckle shoes of the Lestatcore version, he wears taller, pirate-y boots — elegant and very well-made, of course, very debonair, but much better for dirty work and running around. That’s how I imagine it anyway.

…Oh god, this got SO long lmao. But I hope I was able to give you the kind of answer you were looking for! I LOVE hearing and seeing other people’s versions of Ingary and its chaotic cast of characters. Do feel free to tell me yours, I’d love to hear them! Sorry again that this was so late, thank you for asking<3

[randomshenaniganery]

Differences in Howl’s Moving Castle book and movie characters

Most of the characters are not themselves anymore

Sophie is not outspoken and she only gets emotionally in like particularly stressful moments. She’s very calm and for some reason is like immediately into Howl lol

Book Sophie although she was very shy and timid when she lost her inhibitions because of the curse she went all the fucking way. Like that one guy I was too shy to talk to I will now scream at because he’s a mess and I’m a mess too. She has no awareness you’d have to hit her with a brick to understand a hint, she has magic and uses it without knowing about it constantly, talks to things to relieve stress

Mikael (i hate the spelling but for some reason its like this???) he’s pretty meh, a child literally. 

Michael Fisher, a love struck hard working stressed out foil of Howl. He’s doing his best okay be careful of the pure bean.

Howl Pendragon/Jenkins this guy is like very chill and dramatic but in a super low key way which is why the hair scene was so weird for me even when I didn’t read the books yet because it just felt out of place. 

Howell Jenkins (howl pendragon) you know from the fucking start that he is THE dramatic hoe and he does not hide it. He never broke character and he never tried to be the cool guy in front of sophie because in a way he was honest about his personality instead of pretending to look better. 

Witch of the waste a standard ghibli villain ngl she turned good? or just old at the end idk

Witch of the waste (book) oh yeah no she died, she’s super smart pretended to be a teacher and all that, gloated about killing someone that the book had introduced earlier, put on red hair after they cursed sophie

Wizard Suliman?? Pentstemon?? they merged suliman and ms pentstemon into one character. I hate it. 

Bejamin Sullivan (wizard Suliman) is pretty strong, a good boi, kinda whipped for lettie but who can blame him? rip he was either a dog or part of a decapitated body for most of the book

Ms Pentstemon Ben’s and Howell’s teacher, the person who revealed sophie had powers lol, also revealed that sophie put a spell on howl’s clothes, she died RIP

The dog he’s just a dog Percival (The dog); Is a mix of the prince of Ingary and Wizard Suliman (also I love how Howl is a fanboy of the arthurian legends he gave himself the last name of king arthur and he named his kid morgan and the dog percival i love this stupid dork) 

Lettie Hatter a blonde in a shop that has like what three minutes or screen time??

Lettie Hatter a talented smart witch with a sharp tongue, long dark hair and very ambitious goes against societal expectations, worries over sophie, technically fell in love with a dog but also a man thats a mix of two different people so there’s that, scams a prince at some point as well

Martha Hatter also smitten but smart about it, strong minded, she sus her own mother, wants to have ten children, worries over sophie, a cinnamon bun yeah no they didn’t include her in the movie

Franny Hatter, was worried about sophie briefly, wore a hat, never appeared again

Franny Hatter, single mom of three, was accused of using sophie for money but never was talked about again, is pretty happy with how things turned out, broke what do i do marry the rich duh

calcifer is pretty much the same but he develops less, may your bacon burn

calcifer arms and a heart seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, stop bullying me, hint hint he doesnt have a heart, give me food, I hope your bacon burns

The King; war hero, outgoing was like in one scene

The King of Ingary; stressed (tm), has like one daughter being threatened, my brother is missing, my royal wizard is probably dead, the candidate for the next royal wizard is trying to fucking escape, I’m at war with another country, i need sleep

Turnip Head prince; is magic and was cursed got cured by sophie, blonde twink

Prince Justin; part of him was in Percival, part of him was in a decapitated body prepared by the witch, was a simp for Lettie ngl, bromance with Sullivan maybe u v u, brother how dare u let my totally not bf go to the wastes im LEAVINg

Turnip head scarecrow; was a spell from Benjamin, is absolutely terrifying, has strong magicks, was an antagonist for a bit, gave sophie a turn, absorbed a skull and started talking, hardcore af

[stephologyyy]

Kiki and the Clocktower

💖 http://stephology.bigcartel.com 💖

[flowersforvax]

......what..... what language do they speak in Ingary? Is it Ingarian? Does it or does it not resemble modern day English?

Because. Can you. Fucking. Imagine. Being a welsh man finding a completely new world where magic is practiced and the language they speak is fucking English?

[kapuzenknoten]

I was told there was room for some merlin - Diana wynne jones crossovers. So here is a part two. Feel free to add.

First on how merlin and Sophie meet up:

So Howl (book howl, it doesn't make sense otherwise, if you don't know him get the book it's delightful) wants to slither out of another the-king-wants-me-to-do-a-thing-i-don't-want-to business, or alternatively they figured out he doesn't pay taxes. What he does is just a quick change of worlds into another world where there is magic pretty naturally and he assumes he can go on there like usual until everything blows over or he gets his courage together. Sophie is sent out to blacken his name to the local king (she was promised a holiday or sth and doesn't know about any of this). Of course she will go as his old mother because why not. She is absolutely delighted how easy it is to see the King just by saying "I want to warn you about the evil wizard howl. He is really quite wicked and eats people's hearts and such". And the scene with uther will be very delightful cause Sophie does not know uther has no intentions of getting howl to do anything for him except burn at the stake until the very last minute. And uther looks utterly confused when she ends her blackening tirade with "so it will be very good, if you do not ask him to do anything for you, my lord. He is very useless and twisted, it will come to no good." And Uther catching it up with a tyrant kingly "I thank you for bringing this to me. This wizard shall be exposed of immediately."

From here there are two ways it could go.

1. Uther decides to imprison Sophie to lure out howl. Sophie escapes, maybe aided by merlin and weird magical shenanigans follow.

2.uther thanks her and immediately makes plans to kill howl and Sophie is like "oh bother!" and goes into one of her weird panic attacks with her somehow ending up at merlin's room. Where she notices him using magic. Weird shenanigans follow.

Both of these will obviously include Sophie telling merlin destinies are shit because she was the oldest of three sisters and still got out and became happy and had her fortune. And also her having a stern talking with kilgarah the way she does with calcifer.

And of course the obvious scenes with old Sophie and old merlin being absolute unfiltered magical pranksters together.

[bouquinor]

✨Howl’s Moving Castle ✨ At last, I finally can share this after three days of work T^T. Howl and Sophie’s first encounter on the joyfull streets of Market Shipping. I think this book must be in my top ten most favourite books ^^. If you liked the movie, you will love the book ❤️ . . . #howlsmovingcastle #howl #sophiehatter #howlandsophie #lechateauambulant #chateau #castle #marketshipping #ingary #dianawynnejones #fantasylitterature #booksillustration https://www.instagram.com/p/CBGVoIyK6l1/?igshid=apys0qvphc36