My recent analysis made it just click for me while watching why Nancy is jealous over Steve in early season 4 too.
She feels like nobody wants her anymore. Even further supported by her telling reaction to Fred calling her "the most desired girl in Hawkins"
She doesn't feel like it right now.
Already worried that her boyfriend is gonna leave her, she runs into her ex to find - to her belief - that he, too, has completely moved on.
Previously seemed unable to get over her, and he's fine. It seems like he even found somebody new.
It's a symbol for her. A forming pattern. That people meet someone new and they move on from her, that's already what she thinks happened with Jonathan, and while in the throes of that there's another one?
It's proof to her. Similar to El's belief in the same episode in some ways, really. She thinks it is reflective of something in her.
It isn't about wanting him. It's about not feeling wanted by him. And it isn't about not feeling wanted by him, it's about not feeling wanted by Jonathan.
But to her, Steve moving on is just more proof that Jonathan has. Look how possible, look how easy, it is for someone to move on from me. Using it as universally applicable principle.
So it also makes sense that when she finds out he didn't move on...she clings to that.
She's not clinging to Steve. She's clinging to proof.
If Steve moving on with Robin can be proof that Jonathan doesn't love her anymore, Steve not being over her can be proof that Jonathan still does.
Steve is a figure, a representation. She doesn't want Steve to want her. She wants the idea "someone could. It's not easy to get over me, even with distance or time apart."
At the end of the day, he's a projection of Jonathan. It's also why there's follow through for her in the end. She doesn't actually want him. She was never actually gonna cheat.
But every time he flirted with her, it was proof to her that maybe Jonathan agrees with Steve. That she's hard to get over, that she's wantable. And any time she flirts with him, it's her seeking that validation.
There's an unspoken addendum to every interaction with or about Steve for her in this season.
Steve thinks I'm easy to get over? Maybe Jonathan thinks so too...
Steve thinks I'm desirable and hard to fall out of love with? Maybe Jonathan thinks so too.
She says herself, she wants to get answers from Jonathan. But she can't.
"And now, I can't even figure out what's wrong because he's like blown up his family's house phone or something"
Steve isn't because she's seeking someone else. It's because she's seeking answers. She did try Jonathan first.
Steve is a stand-in.
Jonathan can't tell her how she feels? Well, then, she'll go after it - well, like a journalist, at the end of the day.
Try and find patterns in others. Do more research, corroborate.
This isn't a pursuit. It's a survey.
She doesn't want Steve's love, she wants his unput.
In her flirting, she's silently asking:
"Am I lovable? If you were Jonathan, would you leave me? Even if we were apart for a while...you wouldn't, right?"
Jancy had a breakup scene that confused the whole audience on whether or not they were no longer together; or if they were engaged, just for the Duffer Brothers to only now, almost 4 months after the finale, heavily imply that Jancy might get back together in the future, but that there is NO definitive confirmation that anything will happen??? Just pick a side bro, they are trying to play on every freaking team and it pmo
here’s a harsh breakdown of why stranger things failed jancy in s4 (and the answers i hope we get in s5)
no sugarcoating, no niceties — let’s get into it
okay. i think most of us can agree that season 4 was rough for jancy fans. if not rough, then at least deeply awkward. it felt like the entire show hit rewind back to s1 — back when nancy looked at steve with wide-eyed adoration — completely ignoring the growth she had between s1–3.
by s3, jancy were a solid unit with two full seasons of build-up. even when they fought, they communicated. they understood each other. the duffers framed them as “the nice girl and the freak who become more than stereotypes,” the doomed, trauma-bonded duo destined to end up together despite the odds.
and then s4 happened. the whiplash was insane.
add to that the s5 marketing leaning aggressively in stancy’s favor and the GA suddenly treating jonathan like he’s disposable — some wishing he’d die, sacrifice himself for the “nuclear couple”, that stancy will name their child after him (like wtf is wrong with people? do they really think that’s an emotionally fulfilling arc?).
so yeah, it makes sense why jancy fans felt gutted.
but on rewatch… i finally pinpointed why the whole thing gives me the ick. even as someone who never cared for either ship.
and it’s actually very simple:
nancy is in an impossible situation… and steve’s storyline only made it worse.
let’s talk about the “pathetic steve” trajectory. sure, we love seeing him a bit pathetic, we want to see him as a hopeless loser in love — we saw seeds of it already with robin in s3.
but don’t overdo it. at some point he becomes unlikeable, and s4 just pushed it too far.
the writing leaned so hard into the lovestruck-idiot trope that it broke his character logic. in the first scene we see of him in s4, he proved he loves robin as a person and wants her in his life without a romantic aspect — that’s a huge character development for anyone, especially steve!
he spent three seasons going his own way, and became a better person for it. why should it be discussed positively in a scene and then later in the same scene ignored when steve shoots his shot, knowing nancy’s relationship status?
the timing is insane. at first steve is saying the four of them should hang out, a few hours later he’s talking about his life long dream of wanting six kids, and then he confesses he wishes he had a second chance with her, and that his dream always included her as well.
steve thanking nancy for “giving his head the biggest thump of his life” and in the same breath confessing his feelings is… what’s the word?
bullshit.
it’s not fair. and it’s hard seeing how suddenly he’s back to mooning over a girl he dated three years ago — a relationship based entirely on nancy trying to be someone she wasn’t.
it makes him look lost. and it blind-sides nancy during a moment where she’s already overwhelmed.
but the real heart of the issue is jonathan.
jonathan is terrified of repeating the worst mistake of his life.
during s4, in contrast of nancy’s concerns, jonathan loves her still and misses her a lot. the problem is that he’s staring down a dilemma that hits at the core of who he is:
— he knows nancy wants emerson
— he knows their talks about their future were always more of a fantasy on his end
— he knows his family’s economic disadvantages compared to her’s
— he knows his family depends on him due to trauma
— and he knows what happened last time he chose nancy over will
because yes — we have to talk about s2.
jonathan’s entire arc begins with failure: he wasn’t there when will was taken (taking an extra shift), then again when he followed nancy to murray’s and will gets possessed. he gets two seasons of guilt tied to the fact that he failed to protect his little brother.
jonathan can’t live with repeating that.
so when nancy pushes toward her future, he pulls back. not out of lack of love — but because he cannot fathom the idea of abandoning his family again. nancy doesn’t see this, not because she doesn’t care, but because her trauma shaped her in a different direction. she became fiercely independent because no adult ever protected her. she doesn’t understand why leaving is impossible for him.
nancy’s s4 arc is her coping mechanism.
nancy throughout s4 is anxious, lonely, and unsure where she stands with jonathan. hawkins is falling apart around her.
so what does she do? the only thing she knows to. she throws herself into problem-solving, leadership and action — the places where she feels strong.
but the writing frames her glances at steve as if she suddenly regressed to s1. that’s the part that feels wrong. not because she can’t look at him with warmth — but because the show framed it as romantic tension instead of anything else.
and here’s the harsh truth:
if stancy is endgame in s5, then nancy’s entire arc collapses.
because it means:
— the steve/nancy tension in s4 was romantic, not contextual
— nancy did emotionally reciprocate it while still with jonathan
— and that crosses the line into active betrayal
which would break a character who has been built on integrity, loyalty, and hard-won moral clarity. that’s why it’s so hard to watch her scenes with steve, because she was always the character that knew right from wrong.
nancy describes jonathan as loyal early on in s4 and adds that it’s the reason she loves him so much — if she does this to him, what does it say about her?
(that’s partly why i think stoncy — nancy/jonathan/steve ship — is so strong right now, because at least with nancy having feelings for both of them, and them being reciprocated and accepted by all three, it becomes okay.)
it would also destroy jonathan’s arc — turning his trauma, guilt, love for nancy and growth into a punchline for a ship the show already deconstructed back in s2.
what i hope s5 answers:
— how does nancy truly feel about jonathan once she understands why he pulled away?
— will jonathan finally verbalize the weight he’s been carrying?
— will the show address that he can’t just leave his family again?
— will nancy’s independence and jonathan’s caretaking arc finally meet in an emotionally realistic way? or are stancy endgame?
because at the end of the day, s4 didn’t “ruin” jancy for no reason — it set the stage for a conversation they’ve never had. one that could either mend their arc… or end it for good.
…because if Mike, Will, and El are Han, Leia, and Luke surrogates, Nancy and Jonathan are Jyn and Cassian transmitting the Death Star plans' flaw. This blast is targeting Henry/Vecna's weakness from the lab—a place that holds the secrets of his past and important documentation on how to disrupt the MF's hold on him.
(Except they live 🤞🏻)
Then if we simultaneously get a Byler kiss at the church that goes a little something like this…
And finally, they get their medal ceremony at graduation mirroring Mike's S1 campaign.
HE IS GOING TO WRITE THE ENDING TRUST
ETA: In this parallel/analogy, who are the plans transmitted to? Leia, who is held captive by Vader in IV: A New Hope. Vecna is inspired by Vader, who holds Will/Leia captive. This is more evidence that Will is Leia in the Star Wars trio comparison the Duffers are inspired by, not El. So Han and Leia's romance is a very clear indicator that Byler is romantic and endgame.
this post is to point out similar parallels and their differences between the canon ships in the show, especially in favor of byler and jancy. this is a pro byler/jancy and anti-mileven/stancy post so if you ship the later dni or read at your own risk.
most of the points here i've gotten are from the comments from this post. i will also be tagging the the original posters here (if u don't want to be tagged pls inform me to remove it)
the main reason I made this post was because i recently saw an ask regarding how Will parallels Steve in season 4 and how if byler happens then jancy logically cannot be endgame. so i would like to address this in length with the many parallels between each ship.
Firstly,
Byler/Stancy parallel:
similarity:
both Steve and Will have one specific parallel shown in season 4; they both confess their love to a significant other one way or another even if the other is in a relationship with someone else. Steve to Nancy and Will to Mike. They have both made it clear to the audience that they have feelings for the other person.
difference:
the nature of their confessions.
Will uses El's name instead of his own to give Mike the confidence to, in the long run, not give up on his relationship with El. He masked his own feelings to help Mike instead of conflict him.
Even after hearing about Mike and El's relationship problems and how Mike describes the fight they had as something they couldn't come back from, he doesn't try to present to Mike as a potential love interest he could have and conflict him. He doesn't disregard El from the equation and instead uses her as a shield for his own feelings.
By doing so, he has given up on his feelings for Mike and the possibility that those feelings will ever be reciprocated. He does this for Mike's own happiness.
It is a selfless thing.
Steve's confession did the absolute opposite. He outwardly states that he is still in love with her and has plans of the future involving her by his side. He disregards the fact that she is still in a romantic relationship with Jonathan and inserts the idea of them being together.
By confessing, Steve is asking her to think about the possibility that she might leave Jonathan and fall for him again. This creates conflict. Going into season 5, it is clear to both Nancy and the audience that he will still have feelings for Nancy and even outwardly display them.
it is a selfish thing.
Nancy's reaction.
Mike's reaction.
Will isn't looking to be with Mike anymore while Steve wants to be with Nancy again. Those are two very different things.
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Stancy/Mileven parallels:
Now that we got that out the way, let's talk about stancy and mileven. These two ships are perfect parallels of each other for all the wrong reasons.
1. 'i love you'
They follow the exact sequence of each other:
original post by @bugssavetheworld
both mike/nancy are able to say they love el/steve until they are actually pressured to by the later.
mike saying he loves her and nancy saying 'i love you too'.
el/steve literally begging mike/nancy to say they love them. in these two scenes both steve and el have outwardly expressed what they want nancy and mike to say and yet they aren't able to profess their 'love' to the other.
these two scenes happen straight after a supposed date they both went on:
and on these dates, el gets humiliated with a milkshake thrown at her in front of mike and nancy gets drunk and spills a drink on her dress in front of steve.
after this whole sequence, both steve and el are separate from nancy and mike and here they go on their own journey. They are both more focused on their self-improvement and character arc.
they both have a some what 'confrontation' scenes with mike/nancy using the same words they used.
2. 'First Kiss'
original post by @love-byers
the scores used for both scenes here is called 'the first kiss'.
the first scene is during mike and el's first kiss so its pretty on the nose. It doesn't seem like anything at first but during the second scene it is clear that Nancy has somebody else on her mind.
in the season later on, nancy gets together with jonathan. These scenes don't directly parallels each other but the duffers wouldn't have used the same music scores for no reason.
the original poster expanded more on this parallel in this post.
3. 'Love and death'
this is probably one of my favorite parallels between these two ships pointed out by @stranger-feathers.
*maniacal laughter*
during one of the most 'narratively' intimate scenes with Steve and Nancy, it gets interjected with literal scenes of Barb screaming for her life and getting killed by the demogorgon
this scenes were meant to make us uncomfortable and lay the ground for Nancy to feel guilty about Barb's death but there hasn't been any direct indication that Steve and Nancy's 'love' killed barb.
But this scene has very strong similarities to that of Mike's monologue and the outcome of it in season 4.
during mike going on this whole monologue on how he loves El, it gets interjected with scenes of El being chocked and results in Max's death (and Eddie's) and the destruction of Hawkins.
stancy 'sex' scene:
Results:
mileven monologue scene:
results:
if you think about it, both of these scenes perfectly resemble each other with the way they both play out.
this was Nancy's way to show that she loved Steve and that she wants to fully commit to him and this was a scene where Mike is saying how much he loves El and is committed to loving her.
and they both end following tragic disasters.
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the post is not allowing me to add anymore pictures so i will be continuing this in a part 2 post. thank you for reading.
We all know that the Duffers loved Dawson's creek and probably took some references, so here we are. I'm currently watching Dawson's creek and I didn't see someone pointing it out (If you did, show me to me please, send it to me Rachel).
At the end of the first season we see Dawson and Joey kiss. They're happy they finally did it, they are finally expressed their attraction to each other and at first it seems they'll be fine. Dawson couldn't be a normal person with Jen then maybe with his childhood best friend (That is one thing that combine Byler and Joey and Dawson, when we actually compare Joey and Dawson with Stancy/Mileven). But no, he's just a douchebag. Guess who was supposed to be a douchebag at the end of the day?? Steve Harrington, who escaped his bad guy fate all thanks to Joe Keery.
AND ALSO THIS. Scenes look so similar, even checkered curtains in both rooms!!!
At the same time in this episode Jen's grandfather died.
Nancy and Steve on the second episode of season 1 having a sex scenes while our dearest Barbara fighting for her life on the upside down. Both scenes are about an expression of love linked to death and guilt.
Next episode in the second season of Dawson's creek we have a little kiss scene at school with Dawson and Joey just like with Steve and Nancy in episode 3. But then there is a Jen with news about her grandfather's death and there is a Barb missing at school. Dawson and Joey feeling guilty because of their confession of love or whatever after Dawson rejecting Jen when she lost an important person in her life. Joey also feels like she can't be happy with Dawson because his ex or a girl who was nice to her all this time going through the death of a relative. And then there's Nancy, who worries about Barb and feels guilty for leaving her alone by choosing Steve.
Both of these ships aren't endgame. They're the examples of the first love that doesn't last long not only because of the external circumstances that they cannot overcome due to the fading relationship, but also because people have nothing in common in a couple. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Yes, milkven, I'm looking at you.
But it's worth always remembering that Jonathan or Pacey or Will may appear after the failure in the context of true romantic love in the life of everyone who wants it.
I can talk all day about parallels between stancy/milkven/Joey and Dawson and jancy/byler/jacey. And I will talk about them there more!!!
i was looking at nancys necklace (seasons 1-2) and trying to figure out what the pendant was and i think its ballet shoes. maybe she did ballet growing up? but maybe ballet has some kind of symbolism for her character arc. in season 1-2 she was more of the perfect girl stereotype, which definitely fits for a ballet dancer but seasons 3-4 she stops wearing the necklace and starts branching out into more of a different type of character, standing up for herself more, being more assertive, which also fits for her growing out of her relationship with steve and starting dating johnothan.
Im not a Jancy Hater but I do genuinely find i interesting when people interpret the S3 hospital elevator scene of Jonathan saying Nancy was 100% right and rolling over to her as being a genuine conflict resolution, when in reality, it wasn’t real resolution and instead was Jonathan’s fawn response due to years of abuse and trauma and as a result, trying to appease Nancy because she was upset with him. like it isn’t proper communication or effective resolution. Nancy was NOT 100% right with her attitude towards Jonathan needing to support his family. Jonathan also wasn’t right to dismiss Nancy’s concerns about misogyny. And yet we see Jonathan being the one who says Nancy was right and acts like he was fully in the wrong. And Nancy just accepts this.
