#kossith

[lesbiansandboromir]

I regret to inform you all that I am also thinking about Dragon Age: Veilguard 😔 and about a Kossith Grey Warden Rook close to her calling who has been growing ogre-like horns ever since her Joining 🥴

[gaatlokandlyrium]

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[moontheoretist]

(The text in the corner says: Ghilan'nain reveales herself to the world).

This picture from the art book plus what we already knew before suggests that dragons served two-fold role in elven society:

are sign of status

are subservient to the Elven Gods

In addition to that we already know that Dragons have a special ability that allows them to resist the taint just a bit by closing it in cysts and slowing the progression of the corruption. If we take that into consideration and the fact that before there were no Qunari Grey Wardens and now there are (and possibly they're more resistant than other Wardens. I dunno I didn't find anything about that yet but other lore would logically suggest them to be more resistant) we could try to draw some conclusions from those facts alone and theorize a bit.

Theory:

It's very much possible that Qunari (or Kossith) were created as a new type of slave or soldier that was supposed to be immune or resistant to the Blight but it turned out they're not hence why they're referred to as a "mistake" or "beast of strange blood" with a "blood engorged with decay" (Corypheus) or having a "blood that doesn't belong to their people" (Kieran). They may have been a failed experiment of the Elven God Ghilan'nain that later got freed when she was imprisoned.

There is a precedent with Elven Gods using the Blight for war so assuming that Qunari may have been created by them and were supposed to be subservient to the Gods is not that outlandish.

From the picture alone there is also a precedent for Ghilan'nain just discovering a race that serves the Dragons and enslaving them. As primal magical beings in DA world each seem to have their own race (Titans have Dwarves while Spirits have Elves) so it wouldn't be weird for the Dragons to also have a race that represents and serves them.

This picture also seem to be made more as an idea for the game. The person in front of Ghilan'nain looks similar to the Tevinter Archon.

It's probably how devs envisioned Ghilan'nain gaining support initialy. But the picture itself despite being used for different context tells us a lot about how Elven Gods see Qunari. To them they're just a token of "friendship", a tool to be used for political gain, not actual people.

(Is that Sten being sacrificed by Ghilan'nain? OH NO).

In that artbook there is also another picture that seems to suggest that Qunari blood has special and unique properties (like being able to be used to open Black Eluvian that never made it to the game).

[mal1n21]

Kisses for everyone

[thedaswolves]

Another thing that was always in the back of my mind.. this mystery of human origins in Thedas...

Black Codex says spirits watched dwarves, envied their form and crafted bodies for themselves from Titans, creating first elves... But the bodies looked more human than dwarven.

that, along with flashback from DAV of spirit Solas, before he took physical form, saying he doesn't desire to live like humans..

... it kind of implies humans were already around...

And are humans somehow connected to Kossith? we kind of know both Humans and Kossith came down from Par Vollen.. and before that.. somewhere farther beyond the sea? and in DAI Bull said Kossith looked nothing like Qunari but doesn't know more about who they were… It is also said that ancient Qunari came to existence by mixing their blood with dragons to enhance their fighting capabilities, and that would explain the current look of their race. But how different did they look before? Maybe more like.. Humans?! and how do Executors play into all that? were they involved? So many questions left unanswered 😪

Personal headcanon, yes I do I think Qunari (the race, not followers of the Qun obviously) were genetically engineered in ancient past, by mixing humans and dragons 🤷‍♀️ possibly by Executors or who ever those across the sea are

[lathbora-virann]

I know other people will probably have made more in-depth posts about "those across the sea", but after reading this brilliant old post by @felassan about the Executors and possible Ghilan'nain/Mythal and even Andraste connections, my sleep-deprived brain is wondering:

1) Were the kossith originally ancient elves? And

2) Are the Executors kossith (or possibly working for them)?

This got longer than I intended, so under the cut!

We don't have confirmation yet if the kossith were one specific race that became the Qunari race of horned giants, or instead a cultural group of different races that largely became followers of the Qun, and I think you could make arguments for either of those that would still fit this idea.

We all know the theories about the origins of the Qunari race being a merging of elves and dragons - potentially through excessively drinking their blood, potentially a Ghilan'nain experiment, potentially something else. If some of the ancient elves changed or evolved into kossith/Qunari, that would tie in with why concept art Abelas has horns (multiple like the Qunari in DA2) and very scaly armor:

The first time both kossith and Qunari were seen in Thedas is when they landed from across the sea - at complete opposite ends of the known world. The kossith landed in the southern Korcari Wilds (the southern-most part of the current map) and (a millennium later) the Qunari landed on Par Vollen (the northern-most part of the current map) from the north.

The Qunari are said to have come from an eastern land across the Boeric Ocean which was likely the land of the kossith as well, and according to Iron Bull the stories suggest they left their homeland because they had to - but no one knows why. He also says that whoever they were, he doesn't think that the kossith looked much like modern day Qunari (which is obviously just stated as his opinion, but they added it in for a reason).

The Executors are representatives who speak "on behalf of powers across the sea", presumably from beyond the Amaranthine and Boeric Oceans. Varric wrote in Hard in Hightown that they were behind the assassination of Queen Madrigal in 5:99 - but with no clear indication where he got the idea from as it's never mentioned anywhere else. If this has any basis in truth, however, it means that they have been operating for at least hundreds of years (and Felassan's post goes into lots more fun detail).

The symbol of the Executors is an inverted triangle with two horizontal wavy lines across it. Both symbols are heavily used in Solas' murals - with the upside down triangles appearing to represent the Veil and the wavy lines lyrium, though in this context probably the sea (the direction of the lines seems to maybe changes what they represent). It makes me wonder if the kossith were a group physically distant and cut off from the rest of Elvhenan and Arlathan, and thus impacted differently by the Veil going up. Maybe they weren't devastated by it and were able to survive and form their own society.

In our real world the inverted triangle symbol has historically represented the element of water, as well as feminine energy and *the womb* which have all been associated with Ghilan'nain (as well as those wavy lines). Additionally, an inverted triangle with a single line through it is the real world symbol for the element of earth - and also feminine energy.

As noted in Felassan's post above, in Tevinter Nights it's stated that the Executor attending the meeting smelled of the ocean which should not have escaped the notice of anyone who also read Horror of Hormak in the same book as being *probably brought up for a reason*. They also take great pains to hide their appearance and their voice - or maybe they just naturally sound incredibly ambiguous and unknowable...

So if the Executors are (or are working for) the kossith, and if the kossith were indeed the result of Ghilan'nain's experimentation on ancient elves, does that mean that they are her creations that she spared because (we assume) Solas stopped her?

"On the second day she drowned the giants of the sea, except those in deep waters, for they were too well-wrought, and Pride stopped her hand."

If those creations were indeed sentient beings, it makes sense that Mr believes in the "inherent right of all free-willed people to exist" would stop her from exterminating them so that they could live free. And if many of those people later went on to join a religion and culture that pigeonholes people in a very rigid, unforgiving, unquestioning way, it would add an extra layer as to why he's so opposed to that religion in present day.

If this is in fact the connection, does that mean that the Executors work for Ghilan'nain? Or do they hate and oppose her for what she did to them?

They clearly know things that Solas doesn't want shared, and he thinks that they're dangerous enough to petrify one before they can do so. But was this because they're on Ghilan'nain's side, or because they thought he was going to release her again and they absolutely wanted to stop him from doing that? The Executors apparently don't care about Solas' true nature, only about his goals and means of accomplishing them.

Finally, if the Inquisitor sides with Cullen and chooses to ignore the symbols being left all over their outposts by agents of the Executors, three of those outposts are found abandoned with the following message:

"Thedas's present troubles are great, but you have the strength to meet and conquer them. More will come. We prepare for the day and hold vigil. Do not look for your men; do not mourn them. They have given themselves of their own free will to a higher cause."

The last line of that quote opens up a lot of new questions. It certainly sounds very evanuris-y, but it could arguably also sound very Qunari. Given everything we know of Ghilan'nain and the evanuris though, I'm leaning more to that side and a potential perversion or manipulation of that free will. Or maybe they're all Cekorax creatures and all of this is moot.

There's no way the Executors don't show up in Veilguard, especially after the line if you side with Leliana: "for the moment, we are not your enemy". However they do I assume we'll have to fight them in some capacity, so I just hope to god they're given some complexity and nuance.

This is all just throwing spaghetti at the wall and I have no clear conclusion, but I want to know what other people think! I am but a caterpillar on a leaf that does not know there is a forest about her.

[veshialles]

Saw a theory recently that "Those Across The Sea" aren't actually from another continent beyond Thedas but possibly existing beyond the so-called "emerald waters" of the Fade. Following the logic that, if rendering the Titans tranquil created the Blight from their "dreams gone mad", then what does that say about the fate that has befallen hundred-thousands of mages who have been made tranquil and never had the ritual reversed since the dawn of the original Inquisition and the Chantry? What if the Executors are what remains of their disembodied souls, merely emmisaries to a swarm of shifting shapeless stolen dreams gone mad, ravenously pressing further into the real world with each breaching of the Fade and drinking the sky like a Devouring Storm... The same Storm that once forced the ancient Qunari to flee their homeland?

Anyways, it's kind of out there but I will be chewing on this idea for a long time I'm sure

[pondering-gales-left-orb]

Once again I'm asking you guys to be fucking normal about the Qunari and Qun

I keep hearing "the Qun is a prison the Qun is poison the Qun followers the Qunari are evil"

Which makes me really sad, people are not thinking about why the Qunari are the way they are especially now that we know a little more about how they came to be

So please stop for a second and think critically with me (spoilers from DATV will be mentioned below)

With everything we know about how the Qunari came to be it gave us a small window into how the Qun came to be too: this is my theory and headcanon ofc nothing official

What we know is that the Kossith were running from something so terrible so terrifying and impossible (the devouring storm) that the only way out someone could come up with is to mix their blood with dragon blood to create the Adaari

Read that again the only way to stay alive and be able to face this evil is to mix their blood with the biggest scariest monster known to Thedas: a Dragon

How terrified were they? How insane was the threat they were running from? how does facing such Events change a person? In my opinion, it would stay with them forever and change everything about how they live, everything they are, and all their senses evolve to become a tool to prepare for the inevitable day that terrifying threat finds them again. I see it as the same as how human senses have evolved long ago to be attuned to many aspects of nature like our field of vision the position of our eyes our sensitive hearing and how we can "sense" danger and get Goosebumps and so much more, all evolved and became fine-tuned tools to help us survive whatever threat that we faced and whatever was hunting us

I think the Qun was written by a petrified Koslun, scared of what they saw and in disbelief at the fact that they survived, his entire being became how to help his people prepare for this threat, it is why he is Ashkaari Koslun, or "the one who seeks or thinks".

Let's think together though, seeks what exactly? Think of what? In the Warden's case they are called Ashkaari because they were able to seek Asaala in all of fereldan and bring it to Sten, and then Iron bull was called Ashkaari because he always thought of a way to get out of following the rules

So what about Koslun? The most direct answer is "well he thought of the Qun duh!" but i partly disagree, the Qun is the answer yes but my thing is he didn’t "think" of the Qun, he didn’t just write it one night while pondering or something , my thing is he actually "sought" the way of the Qun, he sought out a way to help his people, newly transformed people survive, prepare and change in order to be able to stand against the devouring storm, and not become erratic like the dragons. He traveled far and wide and meditated for a way out of this fear.

now you see where the idea of balance and soul come in in order to keep their soul calm and continue preparing for the devouring storm they must all find a purpose of their soul and nurture it, accept nature as it is a force that gives and takes, because in my opinion, Ashkaari Koslun thought that if any of them started wanting more from life, that mirrors the dragons desire to hoard and devour which puts his people at risk of losing sight of preparing for this evil, he thought if they lost focus they won't see it coming and will be lost forever, that is what the Qun is to me, the conclusion a terrified Koslun sought in the world on how to overcome the devouring storm.

And now (to me at least) it makes sense why the Qun is so strict and military like and why to lead them you have to be strong willed enough to step up and say you want to lead

And now the Qunari we know, they have inherited their ancestors fear, they don't know what they are scared of anymore that information was lost and locked behind tablets that are only unlocked by Adaari fire, the tome of koslun being in orlais for a long time and the Adaari being kept a secret, that knowledge is lost but it's still there in their bones and its why they don't allow any interference from the outside to change them (until now)

In DATV the shock of losing most of the Antaam akin to losing a part of their soul, I'm pretty sure re-awakened that deep primal fear, that qunandar was now without a protector but the loss it also kind of woke them up and shocked their system and made them see past their fear making them accept the return of the Qunari who left and promising they will not reprimand them etc. This is a good start for them to move on

Idk what the next game will be about (or if it's ever made) and i don't trust EA or the Writers not to continue being extremely racist towards the Qunari But i truly believe if they do it right we might finally see what actually happened and how this whole thing came to be and what that terrifying threat that drove them to a strict distraction free life is, i know i want to know at least and i cant help but be hopeful i just really love the Qunari okay