#language elitism

[magnetothemagnificent]

Spicy hot take: Anthropologists and linguists have more to learn about a language from speaking to second and third generation immigrants who speak a "broken" version of their culture's language, than over-confident language experts who claim to be totally fluent in that language and know everything about it but aren't part of that culture.

[cannibal-rainbow]

i can’t believe there are actual adults who don’t watch anything in other languages. only english. imagine living that poor life.

[cannibal-rainbow]

me: a person can achieve great things if they believe in themself

cis people: a girl/boy or woman/man can achieve great things if she or he believes in herself/himself

[undead-moth]

Honestly I don’t blame people for this because prescriptivist approaches to language, especially English, are racist and classist and ableist and prescriptivism is really fighting a futile battle against the nature of language anyway but the way this site has rebelled against the prescriptivism enforced on them in elementary school by overcompensating in the complete opposite direction is really anti-intellectual at times and after a certain point I am going to be like, “Ok this isn’t about language-elitism is it like this is just about that fourth grade English teacher who was kind of a bitch huh?”

[ritarosenback]

Q&A: Language elitism and how to address it

Question

Hello,

I’m a Russian mother living in the U.S with my two sons, ages 13 and 9. I may be an odd one out compared to other parents in regard to languages. My husband and I speak a mix of Russian and English, and though my boys understand Russian, they prefer to speak in English. I am personally fine with this and don’t feel this pressure to force them to speak in Russian (but I’m very…

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[readingbooksinisrael]

I couldn't believe it. I was working with someone who modified the word 'neat' with 'highly'.

Story of Your Life by Ted Chiang

[likelikedirtycute]

In regards to your "general psa". Compared to a linguistics professor, English professor, doctor, or teacher who criticizes poorly-used english, what sort of privilege do you have to so rudely defend improper English? "English is an ever growing language" sounds more like a poor excuse for laziness and a shallow escape from corrective criticism.

oh for the love of god, let me go through this point by point

what linguistics professor is criticizing “poorly used English”?? linguistics as a field recognizes that “proper” language is more accurately “prestige language” and has little to do with inherent correctness or ease of understanding, but rather is about power and privilege.

also, all your appeals to academic figures make me think you might be talking about formal, academic, written English. which is not the same thing as every day spoken English. the same issues about power, privilege, class, race, ableism, etc still apply to formal academic English, but asking students to follow conventions for papers and things is really not what I was talking about. I was talking about people judging others are less intelligent or less educated based on their language use, which is shitty, and which no decent teacher or professor should be doing.

what sort of privilege i have - i assume you’re asking about my credentials. first of all, if what im saying is right (and it is) its right no matter my academic credentials. secondly, i am six months away from graduating with a b.a. in linguistics from a fancy shmancy liberal arts college. i can even give you the name if its so damn important to you. but if that’s not “official” enough for you, please go do some research on lingusitic discrimination, linguistic profiling, and the fields of sociolinguistics and linguistic anthropology in general. people with much fancier degrees from fancier schools than me have said this same shit in fancier words, though i really pity you if you refuse to accept knowledge unless you pay an unnecessary amount of money to read it in a textbook or an academic journal. 

next - “rudely” lololololololol way to prove you’re not actually engaging with my ideas and points. im not obligated to be polite to you. im saying quit treating people like shit on the basis of their language use because a) it’s a shitty thing to do, and b) all the reasoning behind the shaming and judgement is factually bullshit. that point stands no matter how “rude” i am.

"improper English" - what makes proper English proper? Who decided it? Chaucer used "axe" instead of "ask" - was his English improper? if not, why? Shakespeare made up a bunch of shit - was his English improper? think of all the types of people that you believe are likely to speak proper English. think of all the people you think are likely to speak improper English. what do they have in common? could there be underlying prejudices in the societal determinations of what is proper and improper language?

"English is an ever growing language" is an excuse - do you disagree? do you believe English is not a growing language? what evidence do you have of this? to quote you, what privilege do you have to so rudely dismiss what is kind of an obvious fact? you must be privy to some special knowledge, please do tell. 

"laziness" -  jesus motherfucking christ this is what i’m saying. learning how to speak differently is not just a matter of effort. our brains are wired for language, but there is a critical period in which we learn our grammar, our accent, our way of speaking. once someone is older, it is very difficult to change those patterns. so if someone speaks non-standard English, it’s not as simple as "they just need to try harder." 

more than that though, why don’t asshats like you quit being lazy and put in the effort to examine your prejudices? why do you treat language style as an indicator of laziness or hard work? what makes you think that? do some fucking research and explain to me, with actual facts, not just unfounded “common sense” why language is an indicator of the amount of effort someone’s willing to put in.

"corrective criticism" - why do people need corrective criticism? what is the purpose of language? is it to be a pristine standard that we all police each other against and judge each other by? or is it a tool for communication? if you understand someone, why do you need to correct their English? if you don’t understand someone, why is the burden automatically on them to change the way they speak and not on you to change the way you listen?

(by which i mean: there was a study* done at a university where speech was played while students looked at a photo of the supposed speaker. when the photo was of a white woman, the students understood more than when the photo was of an Asian woman. the speech was the same both times. the students, upon seeing an Asian woman’s face, assumed she must have an unintelligible accent, and therefore did not put in the same conversational effort that they did with the white woman. as a result, they comprehended less.)

*apologies to those who cannot access the link, academic gatekeeping is fucking ridiculous, but for anon, that link does give you the full citation, and since you care so much about academia and not being lazy, im sure you’ll put in the effort to get a copy of the article, right?

in conclusion, reread my post and see if you can’t examine your prejudices and preconceived notions, or else do some fucking research and actually refute my points. or, you know, come back and cry some more about how rude i am and how dare i defend improper English. it’s certainly amusing, and it gives me more of an opportunity to go on about why language elitism and the concept of “proper” English is bullshit :)

[anissapierce]

I listened to the 'i believe im better than ever1 who doesnt write 'properely' lets call them ableist names and say they shouldnt breed' weird al song and its like? If piper chapman can get that language evolves that using literally in exageration is totally sound from a legistics pov then likeu 'higher minded person' shoukd too lol