#miraculous speculation

[matt0044]

Theory: Cerise is the Kingdom's teen protoge.

One recognized by the Kingdom to be their spy, an infiltrator to places. In fact, I bet the identity of Lila Rossi and Cerise Bianca was meant to decern who Ladybug and Chat Noir is by mingling with teenagers since the heroes being young is known in Season 1.

As such, her hate for Ladybug could be that the hero she was suppose to track down cost her a chance to rise in the ranks of the Kingdom.

I believe her to be Marinette's dark counterpart. She was recognized by Fu, a then humble Guardian of great power, to become a hero that helps others for the sake of being a hero as opposed to Cerise who's benefactors enable her to act on her worst instincts.

Season 5 strengthens this with how Gabriel snubbing her cuts her deep and that she knows that he's Monarch, something evidence as far back as Season 3 where she frames Marinette to incite Scarlet Akumatizations enmass. She couldn't blow the whistle to the public on how he's Monarch because, well, that would put attention on her and questions on how she knows.

Season 6 has Tomoe be assumed by the Kingdom to be the new Moth Holder rather than their little spy, something Cerise needs to operate undetected. With the power of Gimmi, she would have the keys to the proverbial and literal Kingdom with a simple wish.

Failing that, he becoming Tomoe's daughter would secure herself in a comfortable position as potential heiress to the biggest tech company in the world. Access to machinery that made the Alliance Rings as psuedo Miraculous.

[richardsphere]

A weird rambling explanation about what i mean when I say that marinette is 'unfixable'. And about why i think the Timetagger-era Alyabug theory might be real.

Going into the end of S6, the biggest problem facing Marinette's character Is the fact that there is no believable ability to fix her now. I very much mean it when i say that Marinette 'cannot be fixed' at this point. There is no narrrative path forwards that meets the (extremely basic) triple-standard of: 1- Having Marinette acknowledge wrongdoing and giving Adrien the agency she's robbed him of systematically for 4 seasons straight. (See: The Letter being a convenient half-truth that makes Marinette a non-culpable discoverer of the lie, rather then its orchestrator.) 2-Taking meaningfull accountabilty for the results of those wrongdoings. (Not just admitting to the initial lie, but also acknowledging the crimes committed in maintenance thereof. Including the Werepapas Soulripper, Revelator, Noe and Brazil incidents) 3-beliavably breaking the narrative cycle. To communicate that things will actually be different going forward. On its face, that standard for 'being a good rolemodel protagonist' is so low as to be be a tripping hazard. But unfortunately, its that third tenet that has become physically impossible. Not without doing a major reset of the character and/or circumstances. Within the current status quo, either Marinette is 'forced' by Alya to come out in the open. (Which is not 'taking accountibility' any more then Marinette being forced to not-stop adrien getting therapy is 'supporting' him, and thus also violates tenet 1). Where she retaining all the ill-hoarded power gained through 4 seasons of power-dynamics and duplicity that has let her commit these abuses in the first place. Ending with her with nothing but a claim that 'I promise i'll do better in the future'... as if she hasnt made that promise during every single previous arc. Or she claims to do the responsible thing by giving up that hoarded power... but by willingly losing her memories actually ends up merely running away from all accountibility and concequence of her actions. Thereby leaving everyone else to clean up her mess in the aftermath. Those are the two cannonically established options going forward: A hollow, pre-broken promise from someone who lies like Charlamagne, or a quick get-out-of-concequence free memorywhipe. There is no third option. Not one that has been established at least. And option one is not a satisfying resolution, not after six seasons of her constantly pretending to 'get it right next time'. Especially because at this point in Adriens characterarc, he's already been taught (By chloe) the extremely vital lesson that second chances must eventually run out. A lesson that S5 was set-up to apply to Gabriel, whose roles in the narrative Marinette has now usurped. And after six seasons of constant duplicity and cover-ups, ending with her gaslighting an entire fucking planet. If this isnt the point where they run out for her? Then the one, singular lesson Adrien has been allowed to on his own behalf, in those six seasons of constant narrative theft would have no meaning. ---

So, given that Marinette cannot at this moment in time be fixed. (I personally dont think she can ever be forgiven for this season). How do i think that she could at least return to 'a version of a hero'? You'd need to first strip her of her ill-gotten power, return her to a semi-innocent state, and then have her show genuine revulsion for how far she has fallen. And that is just... not something S6 has done. She's not revolted, she's guilty and sad about the 'pressure', but its always about self-pity, never about self-reflection. And thats why Alyabug makes sense to me as a concept. Take the amnesia runaway version of the S6 climax, and path heading into the next season would be clear. "Tales of Ladybug (Alya) and Chat Noir". But still with Marinette as a protagonist. "I've got a secret" in the opening would now refer to a secret kept from herself, the previous year she doesnt remember. And it would explain why Timetagger went out of its way to explicitly confirm that Chat was still Chat, while Gabe wasnt a butterfly, and then made a suspicious non-comment on Marinette. Heck it would explain why Marinette had to write down the coordinates, rather then simply remember them. (which i always felt a bit weird). Unfortunately, that does mean that they'd actually give her the 'uncovering the secrets kept from me by my friends'-arc that S6 denied Adrien. But that is... honestly not something that would suprise me at this point. (See also: Every single mirror plotline in this series)

[solitaire-06]

How do you think we’ll see Chrysalis’ powers evolve?

So, assuming that Cerise Bianca/Chrysalis remains the main antagonist of the entire second arc (presumably Seasons 6-8 at the very least), that means it’s not entirely unreasonable that we’ll see her become more powerful over time in her fight against the Miraculers, much like Gabriel did when he went from Hawkmoth to Shadowmoth to Monarch. Now, I don’t feel like they’re going to repeat Gabriel’s power climb by having Chrysalis steal all the Miraculous to become Monarch 2.0., so how else do you think we’ll see Chrysalis’ capabilities expand over time? Personally, I’d love to see her either enhance her abilities through the use of leftover Alliance technology or potentially through a mutual partnership with Tomoe and the rest of the Council, since both parties want to claim the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculous.

[matt0044]

So Season 5's episode titles were named after concepts but only nineteen were what Kwamis were based on:

So what Kwamis and powers would come from the other concepts.

My take?

"Reunion:" The power to locate any object or person that the holder desires, one that they need for the task at hand.

"Deflagration:" The power to erase something or somebody from existence and never leaving a trace behind. Something certain people in high places would love to have.

"Revelation:" The power to read minds and dig deep into the subconscious for any secrets that might be hidden away, even from the one being mind red.

"Confrontation:" The ability to keep an opponent from escaping within a pocket dimension for an arena. Somewhat similar to how Metal Heroes like Gavan to Spielban (look them up) will be transported into another dimension be it for an enemy's advantage or a hero taking the fight away from civilians.

"Collusion:" A telepathic network that the holder establishes between teammates or people that she's trying to save. It keeps any strategies from being heard by the enemy while the team is still engaging them, saving time in retreating. Think Young Justice's Miss Martian.

"Revolution:" The power to inspire the down-trodden and oppressed into having enough against a villain taking over or a dictatorial government power. They grant starved war victims the energy of a well fed army and the vigor to right wrongs or triumph over evil. Of course... justice can be in the eye of the beholder.

"Representation:" Disguising one-self into anything or anyone perfectly through cellular morphing. It has to be an established person that they are aware of in order to replicate the appearance.

"Conformation:" The power to conform or adapt to one's environment from needing less water when in a desert or producing plenty of body heat in a deep freeze.

[richardsphere]

I really hope the Lila=Future!Manon theory is BS.

cause... well its kind of messed up on an audience-relationship level? I dont really know how to put it right. And i might just be misreading this or drawing parallel's that aren't intended. So please forgive me if im speaking entirely from from my ass here.

But it feels (to me) like it'd be the equivalent of a "Lex Luthor was secretly Jimmy Olsen" twist. See, The show isnt just aimed at Marinette-aged kids, its also aimed at their littler siblings who have to share the household's one singular tv set, which is why Manon is such a prominent recurring character. To allow those little siblings to enjoy the show with their older siblings, and give them a bit of representation. This makes her like the Jimmy Olsen of the show. In the way that Jimmy existed to allow Supes to serve as a parental-figure to children reading the comics, Manon exists to allow the really little kids to see Marinette as a "Cool Big Sister"-figure, because they're not old enough to see Marinette as a "them"-figure. So given that I suspect there to be a non-zero percentage of the audience for whom their "audience insertion-character" isn't Marinette but Manon. That theory feels to me like i'd kind of be a betrayal to them.

[imthepunchlord]

Rewatching Timebreaker, in hindsight to knowing what the watch is, this intro to it makes it so weird.

Specifically the watch's ability to make a hologram.

Assuming this watch was always planned to be the Rabbit Miraculous, does that mean that all Miraculous can make holograms? Or have some unique minor ability they can do and this is what the Rabbit can do?

Which, for something related to time travel, it's kinda random.

Unless Rabbit wasn't planned to have time traveling powers, but potentially, originally was the illusionist instead of Fox.

Which wouldn't be too much of a stretch for Rabbit.

White rabbits are an iconic animal that's tied to magicians, who are expert illusionists.

To add to it, the rabbit is tied the trickster archetype. Europe has tied rabbits to other-worldliness and the fae. And there is an Indian fable of the Clever Rabbit and the Foolish/Hungry Lion. Where the Lion decreed all animals were to sacrifice themselves so he can eat, and when it was the Rabbit's turn, the Rabbit told the Lion that there was another lion nearby, and led the Lion to a well/watering hole and pointed to the reflection in the water. The Lion drowned trying to fight his reflection, saving the Rabbit and other animals from being devoured.

Which a reflection can count as another illusion.

This can even work off Alice in Wonderland as illusions can be tied to dreams, and they can be creative and surreal and strange.

As for the time motif, it can play off time is an illusion.

So IF that watch was always planned to be the Rabbit Miraculous, I wonder if it was originally the illusionist instead of the time traveler; as the ability for the watch to make a hologram is just so random.

As for Fox, given that Volpina "the False Fox" was an illusionist, there was a possibility that the actual Fox wasn't. And Thomas Astruc had confirmed that Pied Piper was a Fox (hence the flute).

Potentially, Fox originally had a power of hypnosis or subconscious manipulation through music, also working off how music can influence you.

Which this ability is what I associate Pied Piper with more than illusions, and it would work better off Fox playing the flute to use the power, as playing it to make illusions is a weird choice. Anyone hearing that music would know an illusion is coming, but not so if the music could enthrall you and influence how you perceive the world, what you register.

To add to it, this can work off the 9 tailed foxes too, I have read that some did have the ability to hypnotize; this can also work off that infamous ability to possess a target, taking over another.

A lot of this is just speculation though.

It's hard to say if the watch even was always planned to be a Miraculous, if the Zodiac were even always planned. Some things just feel like they rolled out and there were definite changes that had been made, some of which I'm sure were done to keep to the status quo easier and not drastically change up the story (like Mayura was built up to be a bigger bad and bigger threat, actually be HM's boss, but nah, that'd change up too much, can't have that).

[2manyfandoms2count]

I wonder how the multiverse came to be? Maybe through mullo?

Interesting thought! I seem to recall that Tikki was the first Kwami to ever be created, so I'd assume that if she exists simultaneously everywhere, then the Multiverse was born at the same time as her/was there before her, but Mullo is pretty chaotic, it would be pretty funny if there was one timeline and then for instance Plagg and Mullo started talking about their common love of cheese, and Mullo decided to make more universes to expand the amount of cheese that might be invented akhjkefhhg

[nothingtherefornow]

Do you ever think that the only reason Gabriel and Emilie fall in love is because they represent the opposite of their lives, what they wanted and who they are? Because I look at it, Emilie was raised to be the perfect daughter for when she finally came of age, she'll inherit everything her parents expected of her; Gabe always states how perfect Emilie is, and no one could match her, even Adrien. Gabe always strives for perfection. While Gabriel, it's obvious he was rebellious and more carefree, which shows he has a lot of freedom in his life, which Emilie always wanted, as we saw in Felix's play. That's how I see their love story; what do you think?

I've never thought about that ! you're making a very interrestin point here.

Gabriel may have secretly been envious of the rich and the wealthy when he was young, and I can somehow also imagine Gabriel becoming obsessed with the image of beauty and perfection the more he tried to become a man worthy of Emilie.

And Emilie was such a free and curious spirit restricted by her royal duties and the strictness of he parents, so of course a Punk, fre, mischievous and rebellious person like Gabriel would enchant her, the typical bad boy who represent the escape from a life that Emilie doesn't want.

So there's indeed a possibility that Emilie and Gabriel had mostly been in love with the idea of each others and what they represented