#moral code

[theconsofbeingawallweed]

[howifeltabouthim]

He couldn't make everyone move and shift according to his moral code. He could only live in the world and bear witness.

Brandon Taylor, from Minor Black Figures

[girl4music]

GABRIELLE: “I never thought I’d see this.”

XENA: “What?”

GABRIELLE: “You washing blood off my hands.”

XENA: “I never thought I’d see it either.”

The inclination for Xena to lie and fashion fantasies to save Gabrielle in ‘Legacy’ is something I could spend hours on thinking and writing about. Of course she won’t let Gabrielle near her if that’s what she plans to do because Gabrielle would outright refuse to lie. Her actions and choices - she knows she must own up to them. But Xena… Xena would spend eternity and the next serving the greater good in retribution for all her past sins… but not when it’s Gabrielle that has to pay for her own crimes. In that case she’ll go against the grain. She’ll even go against it if Gabrielle didn’t do it.

Because as she said… Gabrielle is more important to her than the greater good. Than her own moral code.

Mostly because she’s HER greater good. But also because she believes she doesn’t deserve to face any consequences to actions - even if they are her own.

And it wouldn’t make much sense for Gabrielle to be the opposite. To put Xena second. Only if it’s herself - which is something I feel like ‘Fallen Angel’ got wrong.

But this is it though. This is what it comes down to. This is why these final Season 6 episodes make sense.

The greater good is only put first if it’s themselves. Each other? Not a chance. Not even if it’s just once. You can’t make them pay for their crimes with each other. That’s something they will not allow to happen.

I’ve wrote about this extensively before but it bears repeating again. Xena and Gabrielle were true heroes. Meaning they weren’t about self-gain at any point. But first and foremost, they were heroes to each other and if for any reason one of them made a mistake or had a misstep somewhere in their actions, the other will do anything possible - regardless of how dangerous or even morally wrong it might be - just to save them.

Now ‘Legacy’ is interesting because obviously the audience is going to be on Gabrielle’s side just as Xena is. Not just out of bias but because they’ve seen the full picture of what happened. They see how much of an accident it was. But nevertheless, it was still going to be murder in the eyes of everyone else - even those that worshipped them and would be biased based on that alone - because they didn’t see the full picture.

They didn’t see that it was an accident and they wouldn’t take Gabrielle’s word for it that it was. So Xena feels she has to lie because how else could she ensure Gabrielle’s survival? And once Gabrielle tells them the truth, she feels she has to betray them all to the Romans. She doesn’t care about what’s morally right because it’s Gabrielle that’s caught in the fire.

Not her.

Then theres ‘AFIN’ where even though we, as the audience, know Gabrielle would do the same - it’s still shocking to actually hear her say it. That she doesn’t care about what’s morally right. Different situations and circumstances aside - it ultimately doesn’t matter about that because it’s Xena that’s caught in the fire.

Not her.

It’s like what I explained in that post talking about WayHaught and the trope of doing crazy things for love or doing the selfish or immoral things for love.

When you’re more important to each other than the greater good - you’re going to go against the greater good to save one another or to keep one another alive.

UNLESS the other requests or pleads for you to not to.

And this is the major striking difference with Xena.

Xena’s only stipulation to the moral code of serving the greater good is Gabrielle. That would be true even if Gabrielle herself requested it the way Xena did in ‘AFIN’. Not even Gabrielle’s choice would deter her from saving her or keeping her alive. From protecting her. Keeping her safe. And it’s up to you whether you consider that to be a good thing or not. I find it quite selfish because it makes Gabrielle seem more like a possession to Xena than regarded as an equal to her.

But that’s Xena. That’s how she operates. You see, she gives up her happiness in ‘AFIN’ in that she lets her go on without her. But only because she’s the dead one.

Were it Gabrielle that had to make that sacrifice.

Nope. It wouldn’t happen. And ‘Legacy’ proved it.

So ‘Legacy’ is interesting because it’s a compelling confliction they face and would own up to the consequences of - of which we know would only be true if it was themselves rather than each other. But even more so on behalf of their own request - of which Gabrielle acquiesced to. Xena did and would not have.

Was the show about the greater good? Mostly…

I’d rather put it as it was about the greater sacrifice because what’s good about sacrificing with your own end? And if there’s someone that goes beyond or above that for you,… how do you deal? Because you’re not sacrificing with YOUR end. You’re sacrificing with THEIRS. What if they specifically ask you to let them?

Do you ignore it? Or do you respect it? COMPELLING.

[mbrainspaz]

I've always needed different moral codes for different situations, which I think is the source of a lot of my internal contradictions, but it's also helped me survive. I'm a totally honest and honorable person to a fault, and that tends to get me in trouble among the scammers and criminals running corporate america. The moral adjustment I made in response to that situation is that it's right and good to slack off as much as I can possibly get away with. I still think of myself as a hard-working person, since I'm not responsible for the external context that demands that I slack off to survive.

I first caught myself doing this in high school when I told some friends that I believed it was wrong to lie, but morally ok to lie to teachers. Why? I couldn't explain it back then. It was because teachers wielded unjust power in an authoritarian system and on some level I sensed that their system was designed to destroy an undiagnosed neurodivergent kid like me. To this day I maintain I was morally right to cheat on my homework as often as possible. I still learned plenty, I just suffered a little less than the authorities thought I should, and kept my grades just high enough to get by.

[take-a-dip-in-the-deadpool]

Villain: You wont kill me.

Hero: I wont?

Villain: No. You have a 'moral code' it keeps you weak. You cant do whats... necessary.

Hero *shoots villain in the gut*: You're right. I have a moral code.

Villain *in pain but smug*: I knew it.

Hero *puts gun in villains mouth*: But having a code doesnt mean I wont kill you. *pulls trigger* it just means I'll feel really bad about it later.

[chaptertwo-thepacnw]

[pratchettquotes]

"You haven't got the morals of a cat, Gytha Ogg."

"Now, Esme, you know that's not true."

"All right. You have got the morals of a cat, then."

"That's better."

Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies

[aspd-culture]

(2/?) can you elaborate on what you mean about behavioral issues with social/moral codes and authority? could you give broad/general/specific examples? im having difficulty conceptualizing it (aside from legal; the meaning is obvious and not something i personally have an issue with because im a coward and dont want to risk getting caught for things that arent like normie stuff like drugs or pirating stuff lmao) and i want a frame of reference for my own behavior. (sorry. for another question again)

Social code: Anything to do with being polite, basically social norms such as no lying, talking bad about someone, etc. If you were thought of as rude (or would have been if you were caught), you violated social code.

Moral code: cheating (spouses, partners, tests, homework, etc), taking advantage of people, manipulating people/situations, being “selfish” or “ruthless”, etc. If you’d be called an asshole for it, you violated moral code.

Authority: talking back, acting superior to people “in charge” (even when you genuinely are superior), doing things in a different way than you’re instructed to do them (even if it’s more efficient), going “behind their back” or “over their head”, not following chain of command, pointing out the mistakes of those “in charge” (especially publicly, they hate that!), ignoring verbal rules because they “aren’t enforceable because they aren’t written rules”, etc. If you’d be called insubordinate for it, you violated rules of authority.

No need to apologize, I am game for questions!