#oathstone

[uragoombaactual]

Nah, get me an Oathstone and make me like Szeth.

[cosmereplay]

Cosmere inktober 2023 day 12 prompt: Stone

Szeth's oathstone! The cause of all his problems 😅

[blindradiant]

I’m having thoughts about how Szeth followed the Oathstone for so long, then finally came to the realization that it really was just a rock, and how that could connect back to what little we know of his past so far. I still haven’t worked it out in my head quite right, so I’m sorry if this is inconherent

First, we know that Szeth followed the Oathstone for over seven years. For most of that time, he didn’t allow himself to entertain conscious questions about what he was doing. If he did, it would lead to a collapse of everything he’d held to so unwaveringly, which would lead to the end of his own personal world. Of course, that came to a head both times he fought Kaladin in Words of Radiance. Him realizing that he was never wrong was part of what ended their second fight.

In Oathbringer, Szeth has to consciously remind himself that he was never Truthless a few times. When he’s conflicted over what he should choose as his Third Skybreaker Ideal, Nightblood is actually the one that directs him to make the choice he does. The sword reminds Szeth of his years following the Oathstone, and Szeth starts to justify it by saying that he had no choice. Then he realizes that, ‘it had always been nothing more than a rock.’ So Szeth makes a decision other than the one Nale expected him to make, and swears himself to Dalinar instead.

In Rhythm of War, Szeth confronts Taravangian after Taravangian bates him by asking for an Oathstone. Szeth ignores most of what Taravangian tells and asks him, demanding to know why Taravangian wanted an Oathstone. At one point, Szeth says something like, “My stone…was only ever a stone.” He goes on to hint at something his father said in the past, but Taravangian interrupts by saying that Szeth’s father is dead.

I find two things interesting about that moment. First, this is the first time since that realization at the Battle of Thaylen Field that Szeth has verbally stated, on page, that his Oathstone was just a rock. True, he does tell Navani that he was never Truthless earlier on in RoW, but that verbal declaration still feels important, especially since Szeth says it to Taravangian, who played a large roll in making Szeth’s mental state even worse than it was before.

The second thing that interests me is that Szeth mentions his father, and (presumably) something he might have said about the Oathstone. In the reading of a Szeth flashback Brando did at NYCC, it seems that Szeth’s family doesn’t share Szeth’s level of commitment/devotion/adherence to the teachings of Stone Shamanism. They’re more willing to leave things up to interpretation/bend the prohibitions than Szeth is. So I wonder if at some point, Neturo tried to encourage Szeth to think of the Oathstone in a different way. We don’t know how long it took for Szeth to be named Truthless or what might have been involved in that process, so I can’t say much more about this. I’m just intrigued that Neturo might have had a different view on things. Whatever it might have been, we’ll have to wait for KOWT to be released before the pieces come together.

If I had a main point to make with this post, I don’t remember what it was. I’m just still trying to put what we know about Szeth’s past and Shin beliefs together to find answers that haven’t been revealed yet. I’m very curious to see how much of my speculation is in any way accurate when KOWT comes out

[onlycosmere]

Szeth's Oathstone

Phantine: Let's say some kid ended up with Szeth's Oathstone and tried to pull an Aladdin by destroying it and freeing him.

Szeth doesn't seem like he'd actually let himself be freed, but with the Oathstone destroyed, what does he do next (designate a new rock?)

Brandon Sanderson: Use the pieces and try to glue them back together, I'd say. If you actually completely destroyed it, it kind of depends. He might transfer the devotion to the object used to destroy it, or he might try to get another one assigned to him by his homeland--though he would have trouble convincing himself to go back.

[radheim]

View this post on Instagram

Another 360 degree rotation loop of Eckles' warband. The young thane on his #oath stone. . #mordheim #citadelminiatures #paintingminis #warhammer #ageofsigmar #aos #aos28 #adelaide #gaming #tabletop #mordheim #warhammer #thecircusiscoming #paintingwarhammer #gamesworkshop #citadel #tabletopwargames #Axe #converted #kharadron #overlords #Arkanaut #oathstone #360 #loop

[blindradiant]

I’m thinking of Szeth’s time as Truthless , and why he was so devoted to the law of the Oathstone . We don’t know the process involved in making someone Truthless , but we do know a few relevant things about the Shin religion and Szeth’s view of it.

First, stone is holy. That seems to be a core tenant of Stone Shamanism.

Second, Stone Shamanism seems to have quite a few rules and expectations for religious practice.

Third, Szeth strictly followed his religion for years, and even clung to some aspects of it after being exiled from Shinovar.

Fourth, Szeth takes honor and the oaths he’s sworn very seriously.

So back to the Oathstone . Knowing that stone is holy to the Shin, that Szeth strictly followed his religion, and that he takes oaths seriously, I came up with a theory. I think there was a literal oath involved in making Szeth Truthless , and that he swore it on the Oathstone itself. There are a couple of passages from the books to back this up.

(I don’t know how to format the next bit of this. Tumblr continues to be difficult to navigate with a screen reader.)

From WoR:

“Have I not been faithful?” Szeth shouted, finally looking up to face the sun. His voice echoed against the mountains and their spirit-souls. “Have I not obeyed, kept my oath? Have I not done as you demanded of me?”

The killing, the murder. He blinked tired eyes.

SCREAMS.

“What does it mean if the Shamanate are wrong? What does it mean if they banished me in error?”

It meant the End of All Things. The end of truth. It would mean that nothing made sense, and that his oath was meaningless.

It would mean he had killed for no reason.

My thoughts:

An oath of some kind is mentioned twice in that passage, and it seems deeply intwined with Szeth’s status as Truthless . That status is something he’s been clinging to for over seven years of his life at this point, and it’s crumbling around him. The idea of a meaningless oath or one that was wrongly sworn is incredibly distressing for him.

From OB:

The sword made some soft hums, imitating a human deep in thought. You say you killed many people before we met. But the whispers...you didn’t take pleasure in destroying those who needed to be destroyed?

“I am not convinced that they needed to be destroyed.”

You killed them.

“I was sworn to obey.”

By a magic rock.

He had explained his past to the sword several times now. For some reason, it had difficulty understanding—or remembering—certain things. “The Oathstone had no magic. I obeyed because of honor, and I sometimes obeyed evil or petty men. Now I seek a higher ideal.”

My thoughts:

Szeth doesn’t say who or what he swore to, but I do think the Oathstone was involved somehow. He also says he obeyed because of honor. Like I said earlier, that would be very important to him. While he was Truthless , Szeth always chose his honor above his own morals, wants, and needs.

The Oathstone and Szeth’s nature as Truthless are mentioned a few times in RoW, but there’s nothing directly related to oaths or Szeth’s sworn word.

There are obviously still some pieces missing, but when they’re revealed, I won’t be surprised if it turns out that “ Oathstone ” is a very literal term. Swearing an oath on a sacred rock would hold enormous amounts of meaning to past Szeth, which could be only one of the reasons he held to being Truthless as devotedly as he did.

[blindradiant]

Young Szeth might have been a budding Truthwatcher

Canon evidence:

There’s not much in canon to support this theory, but there are hints that something was going on with Szeth in his youth. In chapter 92 of Oathbringer, he has an exchange with Nightblood that really sounds like he was in the process of bonding a spren when he was young.

Szeth tells Nightblood that he knew a voice like its once. Nightblood asks if Szeth is talking about the whispers and screams he hears in his mind, and Szeth says something like, “No. A single voice in my mind when I was young. I hope things go better this time.” The conversation ends there, and we’re never told more about that potential bond in any of Szeth’s point of view sections after that moment.

I’ve thought of that moment from Oathbringer a lot over the past few months, and I’ve wondered what order would have fit young Szeth best. That’s hard to answer, since we know almost nothing about his personality before he was made Truthless and exiled from Shinovar. Oathbringer gives more insight into Szeth’s current personality though, and that, combined with things I’ve gathered from the other books, has helped me make some guesses.

I wasn’t really getting anywhere with speculating about what Order young Szeth could have potentially joined, then a conversation with friends on Discord made me consider the Order of Truthwatchers. I don’t remember the conversation or the context around it. I only remember a sphere lamp coming on in my brain as I realized that Szeth pre-exile could have been a Truthwatcher.

__________

Information about Truthwatchers:

The Coppermind has several things to say about Truthwatchers, so I’ll point out the things that stand out to me the most.

“Those who join the Truthwatchers generally subscribe to a philosophy of finding the ultimate truth and sharing it.”

This could be an interesting thing for Brandon to explore in Szeth’s past, especially given modern Szeth’s difficulty with discerning the truth for himself. We do know that he spoke up and told the leaders of the Shin what he believed, which definitely goes along with this aspect of the Truthwatchers.

“The order is concerned with the fundamental truths of the universe, and whether or not those in power are being truthful with the people they lead.”

Again, this could be a great contrast with modern Szeth. Before, he didn’t push back or challenge the leaders. Now, he’s going to return to Shinovar to (violently) do exactly that. This sentence might not be the strongest support for past Szeth being a potential Truthwatcher, since we know that he followed the things the Shin leaders said so exactly. That might have been a contributing cause to the budding bond being broken, which I’ll touch on more in a little bit.

“The order will make their opinions known loudly and forcefully, particularly if they think someone in power is abusing that power or lying about fundamental truths. They tend to attract scientists, scholars, or thinkers of all types.”

I don’t know if Szeth has ever been loud or forceful, but again, he did speak up when he was younger. That could mean that he once shared his opinions and beliefs more readily than he does currently. He didn’t hold to his convictions strongly enough though. If he had, his life would have gone much differently.

I’m more interested in the second sentence of that last quote. Oathbringer shows that there’s an element of curiosity and desire to learn in Szeth’s personality that we didn’t really see before. Before that book, we just know that he’s good at memorizing palace layouts and lists of orders he’s been given. In Oathbringer, though, we see Szeth actually asking questions and trying to understand things around him. He asks the Skybreaker Masters about things related to the Order, the Ideals, and the various tests he’s given. We even see him ask Nale a few questions. He also asks Nightblood about its nature, saying things like, “Can you actually see things, Sword-Nimi?” And, “Do you count yourself as a man?” These are deep and thoughtful questions from someone who we almost never saw ask things before.

We also see that Szeth is highly observant and able to put pieces together to work out things that have happened. He’s a very intelligent and thoughtful person, and I don’t see that being much different in his past.

All of this is based on my understanding of information we’re given about him in canon. We still know very little about modern unenlightened Truthwatchers, so I can’t say much about things related to that. What I can do is speculate on what might have happened with Szeth’s budding bond to a Radiant spren.

__________

Speculation:

At some point before becoming convinced that the Radiants and Voidbringers would return, Szeth starts interacting with a strange kind of spren that talks to him, saying things about old Oaths needing to be spoken again and a coming danger. Spren seem to have some kind of religious significance in Stone Shamanism, so Szeth is probably confused and in awe. Maybe it takes the Mistspren time to convince Szeth of what they’re saying. Szeth swears the First Ideal at some point. He probably has at least a partial understanding of what’s going on, because the Shin obviously maintained some kind of knowledge about the Surges, Radiants, Heralds, and Honorblades.

The Mistspren encourages Szeth to share the truth of what’s coming, which will be his Second Ideal. Szeth probably pushes back for a while, knowing that what’s happening is blasphemous and goes against everything his religion teaches. The spren is persistent, though, so Szeth eventually approaches the leaders and speaks of his convictions. The leaders say he’s wrong, that he’s a liar, and that the Radiants and Voidbringers are no more. They bind him to the Oathstone, and exile him from Shinovar.

Szeth doesn’t hold to what he knew to be true, which is the first thing that leads to the bond being broken. Another is the way that he unquestioningly accepts what has happened to him. He abandons his truth, believing what the leaders told him.

If there was a conversation or exchange between him and his spren that caused the bond to break, maybe it went something like this:

Mistspren: “Remember what is true. You can still hold to that, even if you weren’t believed.”

Szeth: “I am Truthless. The Oathstone is my only truth now.”

Mistspren: “Do you deny that this is true?”

Szeth: “Yes. I was wrong to ever question.”

The bond breaks, leaving Szeth Truthless with Jezrien’s Honorblade. Events go on from there until we see him in the Way of Kings prologue.

Since I’m thinking that Szeth was only at the First or Second Ideal, the Mistspren wouldn’t have become a deadeye. They would have been deeply wounded, but maybe would have been able to eventually recover and form another bond if they wanted.

__________

Conclusion:

I’m sure there are things I’ve missed here, but writing this out actually convinced me more of my own theory. I don’t know if anyone will agree or have thoughts/angles/details I overlooked. Regardless, I’m looking forward to reading Szeth’s flashbacks in book 5, and learning what really happened with his broken Radiant bond.