Are we going to roll with what is trending? Yes. Yes we are. Let's watch the trailer.
Games covered in this post: Geist: the Sin-Eaters, Pathfinder 1e & 2e, Planescape, Scion (after the break).
**HADES 2 spoilers incoming**
Supergiant games has revealed that the protagonist of Hades 2 will be Melinoe. Zagreus was an obscure deity from the Orphic Hymns and Milone is very much the same… except even more so. We at least have multiple sources on Zag, but as far as I can tell, we only have one text on Melione, which is short enough I’ll quote it in full:
I call upon Melinoe, saffron-cloaked nymph of the earth, whom revered Persephone bore by the mouth of the Kokytos river upon the sacred bed of Kronian Zeus. In the guise of Plouton Zeus tricked Persephone and through wiley plots bedded her; a two-bodied spectre sprang forth from Persephone's fury. This spectre drives mortals to madness with her airy apparitions as she appears in weird shapes and strange forms, now plain to the eye, now shadowy, now shining in the darkness — all this in unnerving attacks in the gloom of night. O goddess, O queen of those below, I beseech you to banish the soul's frenzy to the ends of the earth, show to the initiates a kindly and holy face."
This is complicated and I’m just doing a quick read, so fellow academics please forgive and correct me if I get something wrong.
It is absolutely clear from this passage that Melione is the daughter of Persephone, but who her father is is a bit more debatable. While the text specifies Zeus, lots of chthonic imagery is involved and Hades/Pluto is mentioned. Different groups of Greeks syncretized Zeus and Hades at different times to different degrees. While most modern people know them as separate gods, some groups (like the Orphics who wrote this hymn) viewed them as aspects of one deity. Others gave Hades a “Zeus'' alias because he was ruler of the Underworld. So depending on the story you want to tell, Melinoe's father could be Zeus, Zeus pretending to be Hades, Hades, or both as a single deity.
The other non-obvious bit from my readings is that the “saffron-cloaked” reference indicates Melinoe is a Moon Goddess. If you watched the Hades 2 trailer, you probably noticed she wears a crescent moon diadem and is trained by a Goddess who is most definitely Hecate, the only other saffron-cloaked deity in the Orphic Hymns (although the epitaph is associated with other deities elsewhere).
As a chthonic deity, Melinoe also gets associated with the dead, in particular ghosts. She has a terrible and fearful appearance from being the embodiment of Persephone’s, which combined with the darkness motif, makes Melinoe a goddess of nightmares as well. Again, all this is seen in the trailer with Melinoe’s ghostly arm and eyes.
So while we don’t have a huge number of sources to play with, there is still enough for Supergiant to bring Melinoe into their game. And if they can do it, so can you!
General RPG Info
Allies: Hecate, Persephone
Enemies: None
Temples: Caverns, entrances to the Underworld, graveyards
Worshippers: Diviners, necromancers, psychologists, the wronged and oppressed
Minions: Ghost, nymphs
Geist: The Sin-Eaters
Melinoe is a perfect deity to use as the basis for a Kereboi (if you don’t play Geist, that’s a big, nasty ancient ghost).
Description: Melinoe appears as a giant woman, who alternates between radiating blinding light and shadow so dark it snuffs out all lights. Her six arms are not attached to her body, instead they float around her, the bones within visible through their ectoplasmic outline.
Bane: A thunderbolt tempered in one of the Rivers of the Underworld
New Numen - Chthonic Darkness: By spending 3 Essence, the ghost can snuff out all light for the Scene. Mundane lights cannot be relit, magical lights require a Clash of Wills.
New Numen - Olympian Light: By spending 1 Essence, the ghost shines bright with the light of the heavens. The victim contests with a Dexterity + Stamina + Supernatural Tolerance roll. If they fail, they suffer the Blinded (Both Eyes) Tilt for the rest of the Scene.
Pathfinder
For Pathfinder 1e domains, I’m avoiding alignment-based domains on purpose. I’m also going to consider Melinoe a demigod and give her four domains/subdomains.
Domains: Darkness, Death, Madness, Nobility
Subdomains: Leadership, Moon, Nightmare, Undead
For Pathfinder 2e, things are a bit more straightforward since we’ve done away with subdomains and everything’s just a domain.
PF 2e Domains: Darkness, Moon, Nightmare, Undeath
Planescape
Placing Melione in Planescape is easy at least - she would be found in the Grey Wastes with her mother or visiting one of Hecate’s two realms on the Grey Wastes and Baator. Faction-wise, the Bleak Congress and Dustmen are natural fits for her followers. The Revolutionary League and Mercykillers could also work for followers who seek to avenge the wronged and the abused.
I think an interesting twist to Melinoe would be if she is also worshipped by aberrations and dragons due to her frightful description. So if you are running a Greek-themed campaign, perhaps you have some chthonic beholders who worship Melinoe alongside the ghosts of their ancestors? Given Melinoe’s association with ghosts and darkness, I would toss in shadows, spectres, and wraiths alongside her minions as well.
Scion
Making Scion stats for Melione is pretty straightforward. Judge and Passion (Rage) are there because Melinoe was birthed from Persephone’s anger over the injustices against her. I'm also writing Melione as a Guide since they are easy to make and I absolutley love Guides.
Guide Stunt (1-3 enhancement): Gain an Enhancement equal to successes spent to the next action you take in the current session to deal with a ghost.
Final Thoughts
This is a new type of post for me. Hopefully you find it useful and informative. Got another one planned for Zag and Mel’s sister Macaria which should be up on my Patreon in the next few days.
Bibliography
Athanassakis, Apostolos N., and Benjamin M. Wolkow. The Orphic Hymns. Johns Hopkins Univ. Press, 2013.
running a dnd game with a bunch of plural people is funny. hard to get much more intently in character than when their dnd character shows up in a player’s brain, and I get the impression that our players can enjoy the difference by vibes when Tyrants Grasp is being DMed by a fictive of Arazni the Unyielding
Seen a lot of newer (5e) players mention online liking RP but not combat, kinda wonder what % would enjoy it but havent experienced “good” combat encounters
Could also see this being true for players that only like combat as well, tbh
Everyone and their mother knows that DnD 5e has taken the tabletop world by storm, and for good reason - it's a relatively simple ruleset that's easy for new players to learn, and as a direct result of that it's become the game of choice for podcasts, actual play streams, and home group's everywhere.
So why should you play Pathfinder?
(tl;dr at the end)
High Fantasy
While 5e certainly has dragons, magic items, spells, and all the components that you’d expect from a high-fantasy campaign, the math behind the system actually tells a different story. The difference in power from Level 1 to Level 20 is mostly in the variety of abilities available to a character, how much damage they can take, and how much damage they can put out. Meanwhile, other stats like attack bonuses, armor class, saving throws, and skill bonuses don’t really change too much over the course of a campaign. As a result, it’s still entirely possible for large enough groups of weak opponents to drain resources and be a threat to players long into their careers. This works for some campaigns and settings, but the lower power scaling makes it harder to tell some stories. If you’re looking for a system where the power scaling allows a party who struggled against a troll one level to handle several trolls without breaking a sweat four levels later, and where high-level characters could realistically beat entire armies of low-level enemies if you wanted to sit down and spend time on it, Pathfinder’s going to be a better system to get into.
The Case for 1e
Pathfinder 1e is often referred to as "DnD 3.75e" by fans of the popular DnD 3.5 edition because it was created as a backwards-compatible edition that took 3.5 and improved upon its rules, fixing many issues that plagued the edition. 3.5e (and Pathfinder 1e, by extension) is known for its depth of customization options, with countless classes to choose from that cover an incredible variety of character concepts. There’s over 40 classes to choose from, such as the Magus that delivers spells through weapon attacks and the Hunter that fights alongside their animal companion as a coordinated duo and takes on the aspects of different animals. Each class also has its own Archetypes that modify some of their abilities to fit a different theme, such as taking the Avatar-esqe Kineticist class and making it a knight wielding their element as a weapon, or allowing the Summoner to forgo the ability to summon an independent creature to fight on their behalf and instead fuse with them to jump into the fray personally. And that all just scrapes the surface - multiclassing, prestige classes, feats, and an abundance of magic items all allow you to customize your character in so many ways that you can build dang near anything in this system.
You also probably shouldn’t bother.
What? You thought I was only going to sing its praises? Don’t get me wrong, Pathfinder 1e is an incredibly deep system with metric tons of content to dig into, but that’s also precisely the problem. There’s just so much stuff between the complex rules interactions and 11 years of content that breaking into the system today is a huge challenge for people who are new to the game. I had the benefit of jumping on several years ago and learning as things released, but with so many FAQs and rules clarifications between multiple books and supplemental materials Pathfinder 1e has become a massive chore to learn. If you’ve got a friend to help you learn or enjoy the complexity, then learning the system can be very exciting and rewarding. There’s also several balance issues inherent to the game, especially when it comes to spellcasters versus non-casters and over-specialization, but these can be fixed at home tables with a helpful GM.
If you ask me, though? Pathfinder 2e is where it’s at.
The Case for 2e
Pathfinder 2e is a pretty radical shift in design and balance compared to 1e, almost strictly for the better if you ask me. While 2e currently features only 15 classes with 2 more on the way next year, the game already has significantly more variety in character customization than 1e did at the time.
Your Heritage and Ancestry Feats help you define your character from Level 1 all the way to 20, making your Elf more Elf-y and your Dwarf more Dwarf-y. Class Paths determine how you’ll use your class features, such as the normally-dexterous Rogue taking the Ruffian Racket to instead become an armored bruiser who relies on their strength to browbeat enemies with underhanded tactics. Class Feats grant you new abilities or improve on the ones you’ve already got, but you can also spend them to pick up Dedication feats to multiclass or select an archetype, giving you access to feats your class normally wouldn’t be able to use. You wanna be a Wizard with a giant hammer? You can do that. A Bard who leads a team of Animal Companions like a Pokemon trainer? Go for it. You can also select various Skill Feats to pull stunts like running on walls, healing a creature with a medical kit during a fight, or making it harder for a creature you’re following to notice you and catching them off-guard easier if a fight breaks out.
And Pathfinder 2e has been out for all of, what, 15 months now? At this rate they’ll have more content and options by next summer than DnD 5e has released in the 6 years since its release. In my opinion, the best time to get into Pathfinder 2e is right now while the edition is still new.
Not to mention, Pathfinder 2e is a million times simpler to learn than Pathfinder 1e ever was, and despite the number of options available to characters the system is actually pretty easy to learn. Figuring out what you can do on your turn is easier in this edition than any other, including 5e. Ability score generation doesn’t use randomized dice rolls or a point-buy system, forgoing both for a system where your character’s ancestry, background, and class determine some bonuses while you divide the rest to your liking. Any character of any ancestry can easily reach an 18 in their class’s key ability score, making it easier than ever to play characters like dwarf wizards and elf barbarians that used to be penalized from the outset.
All of this is great, but there’s one big thing I haven’t mentioned yet.
Cost & Access
DnD 5e and many other games are locked behind paywalls, which makes it very difficult to break into a new system and see every option available to you. In case you weren’t aware, both Pathfinder 1e and 2e have online databases which are 100% free and have every single class, feat, monster, piece of equipment, etc ever printed. You’ll never have to worry about dropping another $50+ on a book if you don’t want to, and while the publishers do put out some pretty solid pre-built modules and campaigns you can always choose to forgo them and start your own campaign without spending a single dime.
tl;dr
Pathfinder 1e is incredibly complex and has some balance issues, but if you put the time in to learn the system and have a helpful GM to iron out any problems it has an absolute metric ton of content and customization options for characters and campaigns.
Pathfinder 2e takes 1e’s lessons to heart and throws out a lot of the old edition’s rules in favor of a streamlined approach that manages to be both easier to learn and play while managing to retain and even exceed the depth of customization available to players in 1e.
Both editions enable higher-fantasy narratives where characters go from being competent to effectively unstoppable over the course of their careers, and both editions have free online databases where every option ever printed is available. You’ll never have to pay a dime to play these systems if you don’t want to, although I personally encourage it as Paizo is a fantastic publisher.
Orkit from PFQ both the original design, and the new design side by side. While I love the original orkit, the new one it a good design as well. It would be nice if they brought back the old though right? maybe as a Custom sprite?
This is free to use as long as you credit me, shotonemar, and link back to my tumblr.
