#pragmatics

[weaponwifer]

Yepppp this is linguistics

[seekerofthemuse]

As an autistic person majoring in linguistics, reading a book on pragmatics and discourse feels like reading a guide to social interactions that everyone else has had on their hands since when they were born. Like no, that was not obvious at all. Why do we never say what we mean.

The experience of failing to acknowledge certain maxims has made me paranoid and I've been scripting dialogues and trying to get into the others' heads my entire life. Did they offer me to go somewhere or were they simply asking what I'm gonna do tonight? Did I just perform a face-threatening act and that's why I feel like everyone hates me? The book doesn't have all the answers, though, as the cooperative principle varies from culture to culture. Hofstede's got me, right? Unless his models are a bit outdated at this point...

[ladyfingerpress]

#82 The Autistic Mistake (Communication with Neurotypicals)

Morgan Stern introduces a simplifying idea with the Larson-Munroe Hypothesis of allistic communication

The Autistic Mistake in Communication: What Language Really Is To Neurotypicals : Morgan Stern : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Inte

The Why Do Neurotypicals? series gets more ambitious with a simplifying theory on the fundamental actions of neurotypical communication. Ano

[davinki-2000]

A: William the second has made plans to leave a sentient and helpful feather pen his son, William the third, in the event of his death.

B: Are you sure?

A: Yes, it was first given to William II by his father, William I (known for being quite stubborn), who is determined to have the tradition carried on.

B: And what of William III's son?

A: Yes, William III plans to leave his grandfather's pen to his son, William IV.

Too many words? Allow me to paraphrase.

A: Will will will Will a willing quill.

B: Will Will will Will the willing quill?

A: Well, willful Will, who willed Will the willing quill, willed that Will will will Will the willing quill.

B: Will Will will willful Will's willing quill to Will?

A: Will will will willful Will's willing quill to Will.

I came up with this a kid and no one has ever seemed very pleased by it.

[lingthusiasm]

Lingthusiasm Episode 101: Micro to macro - The levels of language

When we first learn about nature, we generally start with the solid mid-sized animals: cats, dogs, elephants, tigers, horses, birds, turtles, and so on. Only later on do we zoom in and out from these charismatic megafauna to the tinier levels, like cells and bacteria, or the larger levels, like ecosystems and the water cycle. With language, words are the easily graspable charismatic megafauna (charismatic megaverba?), from which there are both micro levels (like sounds, handshapes, and morphemes) and macro levels (like sentences, conversations, and narratives).

In this episode, your hosts Lauren Gawne and Gretchen McCulloch take advantage of the aptly numbered 101th episode to get enthusiastic about linguistics from the micro to macro perspective often found in Linguistics 101 classes. We start with sounds and handshapes, moving onto accents and sound changes, fitting affixes into words, words into sentences, and sentences into discourse. We also talk about areas of linguistics that involve language at all these levels at once, including historical linguistics, child language acquisition, linguistic fieldwork, sociolinguistics, and psycholinguistics. Plus: why we don't follow this order for Lingthusiasm episodes or Crash Course Linguistics and how you can give yourself a DIY intro linguistics course. Click here for a link to this episode in your podcast player of choice or read the transcript here.

Announcements:

To celebrate Lingthusiasm now having more than 100 episodes, we have compiled a list of 101 places where you can get even more linguistics enthusiasm! This is your one-stop-shop if you want suggestions for other podcasts, books, videos, blogs, and other places online and offline to feed your interest in linguistics. Even with a hundred and one options, we're sure there's still a few that we've missed, so also feel free to tag us @ lingthusiasm on social media about your favourites! 

In this month’s bonus episode we get enthusiastic about what psycholinguistics can tell us about creative writing, with Julie Sedivy, psycholinguist and the author of Memory Speaks and Linguaphile! We talk about moving from the style of scientific writing to literary writing by writing a lot of unpublished poetry to develop her aesthetic sense, how studying linguistics for a writer is like studying anatomy for a sculptor or colour theory for a painter, and how you could set up an eyetracking study to help writers figure out which sentences make their readers slow down.

Join us on Patreon now to get access to this and 90+ other bonus episodes. You’ll also get access to the Lingthusiasm Discord server where you can chat with other language nerds.

Here are the links mentioned in the episode:

Lingthusiasm episodes by topic

Corinna Bechko 'smallrus' post on Bluesky

Donkey Kong structural ambiguity and novel sentence example post on All Things Linguistic

Auslan Signbank entry for 'my, mine'

Taiwanese Sign Language Online Dictionary handshape list

Our aesthetic IPA chart merch!

ASL sign for 'student' by @aslu on YouTube - formal version and informal version

Crash Course Linguistics

'Quantifier Scope Jokes' post on All Things Linguistics

'Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong Historical Records Reinstated After Multi-Year Dispute With Twin Galaxies' article by Kat Bailey on IGN

Wikipedia entry for 'President of the Republic of China'

Wikipedia entry for Hank Chien

Smallrus artwork by ursulav on Deviant Art

Nix Illustration post on smallrus in the historical record

Lingthusiasm episodes mentioned:

'Schwa, the most versatile English vowel'

'All the sounds in all the languages - the International Phonetic Alphabet'

'Sounds you can’t hear - Babies, accents, and phonemes'

'Why do C and G come in hard and soft versions? Palatalization'

'Climbing the sonority mountain from A to P'

Who questions the questions?

Brunch, gonna, and fozzle - The smooshing episode

That’s the kind of episode it’s - clitics

Word order, we love

The bridge between words and sentences - Constituency

Cool things about scales and implicature

Scoping out the scope of scope

Layers of meaning - Cooperation, humour, and Gricean Maxims

How to rebalance a lopsided conversation

Corpus linguistics and consent - Interview with Kat Gupta

Making speech visible with spectrograms

You can listen to this episode via Lingthusiasm.com, Soundcloud, RSS, Apple Podcasts/iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also download an mp3 via the Soundcloud page for offline listening.

To receive an email whenever a new episode drops, sign up for the Lingthusiasm mailing list.

You can help keep Lingthusiasm ad-free, get access to bonus content, and more perks by supporting us on Patreon.

Lingthusiasm is on Bluesky, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Mastodon, and Tumblr. Email us at contact [at] lingthusiasm [dot] com

Gretchen is on Bluesky as @GretchenMcC and blogs at All Things Linguistic.

Lauren is on Bluesky as @superlinguo and blogs at Superlinguo.

Lingthusiasm is created by Gretchen McCulloch and Lauren Gawne. Our senior producer is Claire Gawne, our production editor is Sarah Dopierala, our production assistant is Martha Tsutsui Billins, our editorial assistant is Jon Kruk, and our technical editor is Leah Velleman. Our music is ‘Ancient City’ by The Triangles.

This episode of Lingthusiasm is made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike license (CC 4.0 BY-NC-SA).

[blorbonk]

Uh oh! There are too many disciplines within linguistics! Either morphology or syntax has got to go. Resolve the crisis:

Syntax is just big morphology.

Morphology is just small syntax.

It goes straight from phonology to semantics actually.

I'm no fun at parties (morphosyntax).

I don't go to parties (not into linguistics / results).

I'm a prescriptivist and I feel the need to express that opinion in this poll.

Voting ended onMar 18

[countrynerddancer]

Social Scripts in Ep 4

I just rewatched episode 4 of Heated Rivalry and what stood out to me the most was number of social scripts on display that Ilya and Shane are trying out on each other and others. Also, I finally heard the "I want to please you" during the first couch-slamming shot, so yay! Some of this is headcanon, some of it is based on my experience using social scripts and having delayed emotional processing. Also pulling in a little of my pragmatics training.

2152 words. TLDR; Shane and Ilya have different social scripts that they keep dipping in and out of and the miscommunications are fascinating.

I think there was probably some build up in the lead-up to the Tuna Melt day. Like, they had to plan when they were going to see each other and Ilya probably said something about how they'll "have a lot of time this time" if Shane comes over after settling at the hotel and they don't have anything til the next afternoon. I know that in the book, Shane is thinking of cutting things off and means to do so immediately, but I don't think that interpretation works that great in the show. I also don't think it works well with how repressed Shane is. When Shane says "do you want to talk?" I think he's trying to prompt from Ilya whatever he thinks Ilya was getting at by pointing out in text that they were going to have a lot of time. I think he was unsure and trying to kick off whatever Ilya clearly had planned. Shane was probably concerned that Ilya wanted to talk about cutting things off. So his "'kay" when Ilya moves immediately to sensuality is a bit relieved because now he doesn't have to think about emotions or conversations yet.

Afterwards, with Ilya making tuna melts, Shane does not have a romantic script to jump into, he can't admit that there is even a potential of romantic feelings, so he hasn't had a chance to compose scripts for this kind of situation. Being high functioning autistic involves a frankly exhausting amount of time spent on imagining and visualizing conversations! But if you can't be gay and you don't like the women you've picked up at clubs, you can't spend the appropriate time thinking about how you might be in cute situations, like a man offering to make you food. And Ilya knows that this is a weird situation, unusual for them, that Shane will probably get in his head, so Ilya is trying to downplay everything (we'll talk later, I'm not done with you so stay, I'm the one who's hungry I'm already making one for me).

But Ilya is, as someone who has had friends with benefits and hookups that he's comfortably enjoyed, trying to play to his scripts as well! Because when you have a date over, you make sure the drink is good for them, there's a clean towel so they can shower if they want after sex, you think about offering clothes for comfort if they're hanging around. Ilya knows that this is odd for Shane, but he also thinks that if Shane is open to the slight progression (honestly, probably to real-and-close-friends-with-benefits), he will enjoy these offerings of chivalry and relax after some cajoling. Ilya doesn't know that Shane is completely not processing potential progressions. Ilya probably doesn't understand yet that Shane can't figure out how he feels in the moment, that he'd need to take time to think about it or need to have already taken time to think about it if he were to accept this new affection.

So someone, likely Ilya, brings up the game or highlights that are on ESPN and Shane moves and is comforted with a familiar third thing to focus on, then Ilya follows (Third things being something poet Donald Hall writes about in marriages). Watching hockey with hockey players is something Shane has scripts for! He can chirp, he can be knowledgeable and respected for his opinions. I think the cut from the Ryan Price comments to the question about favorite cities to play in is important. Time passes between them sitting down! We can assume they continue talking for a bit, talking shop, and relaxing enough that Shane does start flowing into his friend script! Shane can start to ask questions (about hockey, mostly) and finds himself happy to learn more. He's not super comfortable talking about where there are hot women, but Ilya doesn't know why exactly. Maybe Shane just chugs a lot of respect women juice or he's a prude if he's not actively getting fucked. Ilya is just happy that they are talking, that he's learning endearing boring things about the boy he likes. And since he's experienced in talking around sexuality and he knows Shane isn't straight, that seems like another thing they share (like hockey) that they should be able to talk about in this new schema! This is a new way they could supposedly be the same but not like most other people!

Of course, that's when things go a little off the rails for Shane. His friend script doesn't account for talking about preferences in gender! He's not used to talking to someone he's having sex with about people he may (or may not) have sex with! He's supposed to be assumed to be into women and bashfully brush off inquiries, knowing his career is something he can use as an excuse, since none of his hockey friends actually share that same pressure. But Ilya does. The whole point of Ilya Rozanov in Shane Hollander's life is that he knows exactly what it's like at the top. So being asked about sexuality straight up, with no assumptions guiding the conversation for Shane to bounce off of, is really fucking uncomfortable. Because at this point, Shane hasn't thought about what his sexuality is. He just knows it includes Ilya. And that the women he's happened to be with are disappointing (but that could be for any number of reasons). Besides, he's not a person with a normal life, anyway. He's a hockey player. Other players can have other identities, but that's because they aren't like him (but Ilya is... right?)!

Shane has not already had these conversations with himself, so of course he cannot have them with Ilya. He knows who he is in hockey, he knows how he is as a friend and teammate and child of his parents. He knows his taste (in real estate) and his values in setting up his life (investments, the cottage and time away, training time, being representation, when he drinks alcohol), but Shane does not know his sexuality. Because, as we know from what happens, if he examined it, he might have to change the routine that's working for him (and has won him back-to-back cups). The only recourse for Shane to maintain control of the conversation is to bring in the things he would say to friends about his sex life: "it's private." But, in a show of intimacy that is both brave and uncomfortable for him, he gets to add that he obviously keeps a lot of things private. Shane is saying 'even with you, I can't safely talk about my sexuality. We both need the plausible deniability because I can't be gay.' And Ilya does understand that; the stakes are high for them both. But Ilya is prepared to say 'I like you like I like girls' and he doesn't seem to mind that Shane can't say it back ("Lucky me"). This is a moment where their social scripts for subtext are actually working okay, I think. Of course, as soon as the communication starts working, it has to be interrupted, to remind us of the other chasms between them.

Moving back to before "you like them? girls?": A big part of my impetus for writing this whole essay was, and I'm gonna all caps it for emphasis, SHANE DOESN'T KNOW HE'S FEELING OR EXPRESSING JEALOUSY OVER SVETLANA!!!!!!! Ilya thinks he's still just sharing about his life, saying even that his type is people who know a lot about hockey (that's who he wants to have around "regular"ly). He is also telling Shane that someone important in his life approves of him. Oh, my longtime friend likes your work and I value her opinion and share it with her, btw. You are likeable, btw. And Shane, at this point, is so far out of his scripts, and he's probably feeling something odd in his stomach, but he doesn't know it's jealousy because he has not yet thought of Ilya as his. He hasn't yet thought of Ilya as Ilya! He's trying to put things back into frameworks he understands by asking if Svetlana is Ilya's girlfriend.

When Ilya says he's lazy, btw, it is both a script that's been written for him by his father AND I think Ilya is trying to imply to Shane that he doesn't WANT to find someone else (some other woman in Boston who would fuck him), he already has someone else who he doesn't just want to fuck and be friends with (SHANE). This, to my mind, is a crush confession with a buttload of plausible deniability. Ilya doesn't even hear the negative self-talk part of what he says. But Shane ONLY hears the negative self-talk, and that is something he IS prepared to talk about and to deny, whole-heartedly. And then they eat! Let's move on from my headcanon, there.

After the phone call and voicemail in Russian (during which Shane politely turns up to TV volume to offer more privacy during a heated moment), Shane has retreated back to a friend script, but a more intimate one. The kind of thing he'd ask Hayden or JJ if he heard them talk to their parents. It would be normal for friends to rant or offload about an annoying dad! We know Shane would complain about his mom to Hayden because of the phone call scene in episode 6. Parents you love get on your nerves or interrupt sometimes and that's great friendship conversation fodder! But Ilya, bless him, does NOT have a social script for talking about his family. He pretty much just Doesn't. He is used to brushing things off, maybe with references to how they're in Russia, maybe that they need his help with too much.

Ilya is not prepared for someone to ask how his father is. Most of the friends in Ilya's life probably would pretend they didn't hear anything or Svetlana just wouldn't need to ask, she would move right to comfort because she already knows how he feels. So the startled Ilya doesn't know how to acknowledge to a hockey friend (read: hockey crush) that things are actually, truly bad. Russian culture, in my experience (two visits as a child, a first-gen ex boyfriend, a book or two), is one with a lot of stoicism and pessimism where one simply would not ask. So, Ilya skips to guiding Shane into providing comfort. Frankly, the kind of comfort he would have sought from Svetlana. This is a part where Shane and Ilya's 'friend' scripts don't work, don't align, because of different cultural expectations and personal experiences around family. That mismatch is a little awkward, which probably contributes to Shane switching back into the sexual script pretty quickly. Even though just cuddling is helping Ilya and Shane can probably tell that, it isn't part of the Hollander-and-Rozanov scripts he has. Shane had just gotten comfortable with the friend part, but part of his friend script clearly made Ilya uncomfortable... but the physical comfort of cuddling doesn't match Shane's friend script, so... sex?

They are negotiating a new social script in between their different ideas of friendship and a shared sexual experience. They are doing it so fucking quickly, frankly. It's impressive they made it that far into a day together without someone freaking tf out. Shane, during this whole day, is having a million gaps in his social preparation pointed out. He hasn't thought about how to explain his sexuality to someone who would truly listen. He hasn't compiled clues about how Ilya feels about his family. He hasn't reflected on how he feels about Ilya choosing to and liking hooking up with other people (girls in particular), because he has let his experience of sexuality to this point kinda just happen to him (only Ilya as an exception, but honestly, that was also a coup de foudre), so he doesn't know how to fucking talk to Ilya about it. Ilya is prepared for a lot of things that come up, because he took the time to do so and because he had experience either providing or being asked for parts of this from other hookups. But Ilya isn't expecting to be so endeared, isn't expecting the sincerity of "I don't know that side of you at all," doesn't know what to do with Shane's avoidance of sexuality, and has no idea how to talk about his family without feeling really fucking bad about himself.

It's just such a layered few minutes (few minutes!) of television and dialogue and I find it so fascinating. It is deeply autistic and traumatized and also intimate and loving and cautious and vulnerable and brave. I seriously doubt anyone has read all of this, so if you did, thank you. I really needed to get these thoughts all out and I'm glad they all seemed to shake out.