#problem players

[aroacedm]

when your dnd players are so dumb that you have to make an item that literally reveals secrets about items (not the wand of secrets, its not just for doors)

@oceantherat it’s not for you but you know who it’s for

[leftsidebonfire]

Western One Shot Horrors: How a Forever-DM can still make for a shitty player.

Im venting here, about what happened last night. Full context and all.

As far as this story goes, it's not the worst horror story in terms of creepy behavior, but this just happened, and it was easily the most frustrated I've ever felt while playing dnd.

For context, our dnd group plays with the main story for 3 weeks, but then the fourth week, one of the players takes a turn running a one-shot so the Forever-DM can have a break from writing and play. There are 7 of us in total and we rotate one shots so everyone gets a chance to show off their DM skill and it's always fun.

The irony of this, is that the DM is the biggest problem player that we have. I love playing in his campaign each week, but when it comes to him as a player in someone else's game, he becomes extremely annoying. I understand wanting to break free and let loose once a month, maybe cause some chaos in a fun little one shot, but I'm talking about the full murderhobo character, Every. Single. Time. He always needs to destroy the town were in by the end of it, or brutalize the enemy. There was even one time he kept interrupting the other players to butt in about how he was going to kill the villain. It's one shots, so it's never a *huge* problem, but it does get annoying.

But the biggest frustration happened just last night. The only people who have any part in this story are me, the DM for the night, and him.

B=Problem Player, playing a Fire Genasi Rogue.

I created a homebrew world for my one shot. It's themed to be the old west with cowboys and guns, and I even created homebrew subclasses for them to try out for a little extra flavor, as well as hand drawn maps, with the idea that they will finish in one city and then decide where to go, so the next time it comes around to my turn, I'll have time to plan and prepare for the city they choose to explore. I have very few rules for the game, but one of them is to play it a bit more seriously. No joke characters. To be clear, I want my characters to have fun and joke around, but just to play it a bit more seriously, like a regular campaign.

We start the game and everything is going great, the group is absolutely loving exploring my town and Gambling, but B continues to go off away from the party. It's not inherently bad at first, but it is kind of annoying when I wrangle everyone together so I can continue and he just disappears again.

B and another player try to talk to the Sheriff NPC, but he's got a certain time that he's supposed to come in, and that's later. I let them talk to a receptionist at the Sheriff's office and tell them that he's out patrolling right now and will be back in later if they're looking for him. Basically my way of saying “this quest is not available yet, go find something else to do.”

Then B decides to go try and get some money "for gambling" by doing chores around the stables, but his real plan was just to shovel horse manure over the fence so he could collect it. He takes two balls of manure, goes over to the church in town (the plot point for later, where the battle was going to take place) Lights them on fire, and hurls them at the church.

Now I had two options for what might happen at the church. If the group were to investigate, they could learn some history about the town and the door would be locked. Or, if they tried to break in or destroy the church at all, it would rouse the sheriff. The plan was that once they meet the Sheriff, he asks them to help on night watch, which then pushes them right into the next plot point where they see creepy things happening at night. If the sheriff was angry, then he would offer to sweep it under the rug if they agreed to help.

I thought I had planned for everything. Clearly, I had not.

So, I come in as the sheriff, asking him what he thinks he's doing setting the church on fire. And then I propose the deal that we can put this all behind us if B and his group can help on Night Watch.

And B is absolutely not accepting it. He argues with me for probably 20 minutes of real time. I absolutely cannot make it any clearer that he is supposed to take this plot point. I repeat myself over and over. I threaten him with a night in jail for trying to vandalize the church and burn it down? He always says “You can TRY to hold me.” All smug. I tell him his only options are either a night in prison, or night watch. He keeps trying to say I'm a bad sheriff for not being around when he went to the Sheriff's office. I explain AGAIN why the sheriff was away, and he just tries to claim that he was summoning him here and it worked.

The reason he was even TRYING to summon the Sheriff was so that the OTHER PLAYER could talk to him! Not even him! And I told him that they'd all be able to talk on the night watch and they could ask any questions they wanted. He kept arguing saying it “wasn't his decision to make.”The entire time, B kept acting like he had anything to negotiate with. As if he wasn't the one hurling FLAMING HORSE MANURE AT THE CHURCH. There was seriously nothing I could do to get this to move along. Putting my foot down didn't even work. I was holding my ground about this and he still found a way to undermine me. I just kept repeating the ultimatum of “do this quest (the plot) or you go to jail for destruction of property” and he RUNS AWAY. He runs back to the gambling hall to “bring the sheriff to where the group was.”

I really didn't want to concede to this, but I did, and I snapped at him a bit, kind of implying that the sheriff only follows him and doesn't attack him for running away because we've got a **plot** we still have to follow. (And B tells me to calm down under his breath). I push past the argument and just continue to read the plot as written but B seems really checked out for the rest of the session. He wasted probably 20 minutes of actual game time trying to argue with me about the plot and wouldn't take my No for an answer. Not once did he ever take the hint. 

Now, let me make one thing very clear. If this were a long-standing campaign, I would have been more open to it. Maybe some drama, arresting him, letting the group do a jailbreak plot. But this was a one shot. We had 4 hours to get through what I had in mind and then it was done, for good. Sometimes a bit of light railroading is necessary, and I still was trying to let people have their fun. I'd spent a month planning this one shot and putting in all my hard work, so I don't think it was too much to ask that the players follow my storyline.

I am not a professional DM. I've run a couple of one shots before and that's about it. I've been playing for years, but only rarely DMing, so I don't always have the ability to think on the fly like that. As I look back on it, I see how I could have handled it differently, like going out of character to just tell him outright that he needs to listen to me, or something like that. But I was determined to resolve it in character, thinking there was no way he would keep fighting me about this for that long. Every time I tried to get him back on the right track, he found another way around it. And not only that, he also is very bad at taking criticism in the past, so I feel like this situation would have gone bad either way. I had a million things running through my mind at that point and of course, I always think of what I could have done differently after I've had time to reflect.

I had thought I'd lost my temper, but my cousin who was also playing told me later she thought I handled it very well and I seemed calm and level headed about it. That made me feel a bit better about things. I have an entire world with 9 more cities everyone is excited to explore, but this experience has really made me not want to DM for B as a player anymore. The rest of the group was wonderful, and I really like them all. And I (usually) like B as a DM, too. But this one thing has really shown me a lot about B as a player, and if he's going to act like that, then I don't want him playing in my games just to purposely ruin them or be difficult.

He told me later he was “trying to speed things along” but all he proved to do was grind us to a completely impassable roadblock. I wish he would have just listened to me and trusted my story. I tell him “be a bit more serious for this world” and he throws around flaming horse poop and won't listen to me.

Anyway, this was honestly mostly a way to vent my frustrations, because I had been having a wonderful time that night until that useless argument kind of just ruined my fun.

[feebledungeons]

I need some advice. I’m a player in a school DND group and we all are taking it seriously except for one person, who is composed entirely of memes and stupid random jokes. How do I/we tell him and his Druid “Mr. Peely” to get serious and stop ruining the game for the rest of us. (This is a sophomore boy, if it helps)

Hi Nonny, thanks for the ask.

These kinds of problems are pretty common in gaming groups and you’ll probably come across this fairly often in one form or another if you carry on with ttrpgs. Usually it’s just a case of personalities clashing or players wanting to play a different tone of game than the one the DM is running.

I’ve put some advice here but the really main thing to remember is Good Communication is Key. I know it sounds cheesy but if you can be honest and understanding and help the player to understand your POV, you’ve almost solved the problem already.

Anyway, here’s my specific advice in this situation:

Talk to your DM. They’re probably already aware of the problem if the whole group is starting to get tired of the behaviour. However, they might not realise that it’s started to affect the other players’ enjoyment. In most cases, I find it’s better for the DM to talk to players whose behaviour is causing problems. It’s their table and they tend to be the defacto ‘leader’ of the group.

Support your DM. Your DM might feel nervous or worried about talking to the player and need your (and the other players’) support. I do NOT mean to say that you should all gang up on the player. Rather, talk through with your DM ideas for the best way to approach talking to the player in a kind and constructive way. In most cases, it really is best if the DM can privately talk to the player, otherwise it can feel like the whole group is criticising them (which isn’t the best way to bring them round to your POV).

Be honest but be kind too. If it’s you talking to the player rather than the DM (for whatever reason) make sure you keep it low key and away from the group. This will keep the discussion more relaxed. Be honest with the player that you, and the rest of the group, really want to play a more serious game and that their behaviour is making it difficult to do that. At the same time, remember that this player most likely has zero malicious intent and is just playing in a way that is fun to them. So don’t be harsh or accusatory. 

Keep focussed on solutions. Try to think of talking to the player as brainstorming a way that all of you can have fun around the gaming table. That will help to keep the discussion less personal and will invite them to come up with ideas so that you can all game together and get the game you want to play. It might be that this player does want a serious game but also wants to have silly moments or the occasional goofy adventure! It might even be that they could volunteer to DM a wacky, meme-filled one-shot?

Table Rules. I don’t recommend this unless it’s pretty much the last resort before kicking a player from the table. It really does have the potential to go very badly wrong if done for the wrong reasons and can cause more problems than it solves. I used to recommend this much more frequently but now I would advise some caution in case the rules take over the group. However, if the player persists in disrupting play whilst claiming that they will change, it might be best to set some table rules for your group. These should be a short list of rules that the group all agree to and can include things like ‘Respect the tone of the scene’ or ‘Story > Individual Role-play’, etc.

Ask them to leave. If the player can’t/won’t compromise with the group, it might be time to ask them to leave. Again, honestly and kindness is key here. They might be very upset and that’s pretty natural. They might feel like they haven’t done anything wrong. But at the end of the day, if the group isn’t having fun, then there’s no point carrying on and so it might be time to have that difficult conversation.

Find a new group. If your DM and the other players don’t feel the same way as you (which it doesn’t sound like it but just in case), it’s sad to say but it might be time to find a new gaming group. If you’re not having fun, it’s better to find a group that works better for you.

I hope that’s helpful Nonny! I know if can be difficult but it’s something most veteran players and DMs have gone through so you’re definitely not on your own here.

I do want to say one last thing. I had a couple of problem players around my table a while back (you can read the story here). I was very worried that I wouldn’t be able to play with them ever again and we did have to set table rules for my group, but now they’re both part of my core veteran group and some of my best friends.

[lawfulgoodness]

So, I'm dming a campaign and one of my players has killed off an npc, withheld an important part of a puzzle in a language only his character knew from the rest of the players, been a bit of a pain in general to the point the rest of the party's characters don't want anything to do with him after only the first 2 sessions. any advice on how to start fixing this or how to gently kick him out? He'd honestly make a great first villain at this point.

(continued)…

I want to clarify that this player had no character driven motivation behind why he left the party out of the puzzle or killed the npc that complied with his every threat after having done nothing to hurt or even impede his character. 

Thanks for the additional info; it actually answered the questions I was about to ask on the situation.  

It really sounds like this is a problem player, not a problem character, which means there needs to be some kind of outside conversation.  I don’t know if this is a friendly game with folks that all enjoy spending time together, of if it’s more of a pick-up group from your local gaming shop, or something in between.  In either case, you should probably talk to the player about what they want to get out of playing an RPG, and how they think their actions impact the other players.

Everyone should get to have fun, if their actions are preventing other folks (even the GM) from having fun, that issue needs to be raised.  Now, it’s entirely possible that this person thinks this is no big deal and doesn’t really think these things would impact anyone else.  These are the sort of issues I like to raise with the “Same Page Tool.”  If it’s this early in the campaign, I don’t think it’s too late to let the player know they need to be a bit more of a “team player” so everyone else can have fun, too.  If they’re looking for a group more comfortable with inter-player confrontation, then maybe you could just say that they probably won’t be happy with the way you’re going to run the campaign.

After that, if they don’t change, then I’m not above letting NPCs and other aspects of the world/environment targeting and/or negatively impacting that character.  If a wizard or other spellcaster gains a magic scroll that grants them additional languages, or a curse targets characters that have spilt “innocent blood,” or a dead NPC has a powerful family/army/guild set out to revenge their death, the player/character might realize that being a Murder Hobo isn’t the most effective course of action in this world.  (Bonus points if the other players sell the character out to the powerful family/army/guild to learn an important piece of the puzzle.)

[sagesariadnd]

The Seven Deadly Sins of Tabletop RPGs

Just because I can.

Greed: Loot hogging - gathering up and hoarding everything you find and never sharing with the party. Stealing from the party, too, no doubt.

Envy: Stealing the spotlight from other players. Demanding your character get something special that another character has (such as demanding the DM give you wings when a character turns out to be an aasimar). Interrupting a player taking advantage of a specialized skill to do it yourself.

Gluttony: This one's a little tricky...in order to avoid the fatphobic modern depiction of gluttony, I'm using the definition on wikipedia: overindulgence and overconsumption of anything to the point of waste. So in that vein, I'll say: excessively consuming one-time use items such as potions when it's not necessary. Kinda mild comparatively, and not as common as the others, but it's what I've got.

Pride: Main Character Syndrome. Insisting your character is The Best and The Coolest and demanding that everything be easy for them. Bonus points if they're powerplayed to hell and back and stupidly OP. With maybe a hint of creating a self-insertive character such that you feel personally attacked when something bad happens. (Not saying that self-inserts are inherently bad, you just REALLY need to be careful about that bleed risk)

Sloth: Chronic tardiness with no excuse. Not paying attention. Playing a character who refuses to buy in.

Lust: Needlessly horny. Constantly making sexual jokes or references at inappropriate times. Attempting to romance or have sex with every NPC or PC you meet, and refusing to stop when turned down. Insisting on narrating or rolling for sex scenes instead of fading to black.

Wrath: Murderhoboing. Excessively torturing characters in the game (even if they are the definitive bad guy). Threatening or yelling at the DM or other players.

[aroacedm]

so i need some dnd advice

i’ve started DMing for a small group of people i know who have never played dnd before

i’ve played a few sessions and i have some major issues with them that i’ve tried to bring up but they aren’t doing anything about (might be my communication skills aren’t helping)

if anyone has any advice or tips on how to help me that would be great. i really want to keep playing with these people

they got distracted CONSTANTLY like i made a easy homebrew dungeon with 12 rooms and it took them 2 sessions (like 6+ hours total) to complete. not a big issue but gets really irritating

they don’t fully understand how to play dnd and aren’t willing to learn. before the first session i asked them to read a little bit and learn how to play but none of them did (not a big deal) but one person didn’t even know you as a player and your character are supposed to be seperate (despite my asking, no one talks in character and there is no role play at all)

one person makes custom homebrew and brings it to games. i’ve made it explicitly clear that this isn’t allowed but they just say “it doesn’t change anything for you” and “it should be easy to work around”. this person also doesn’t listen to anything i say about not doing certain things

this group of people is nice out of game but i’m always way more exhausted after i leave and want to find a way for everyone to have fun

i’m not that good at communicating so i’m not sure if they’ve understood when i’ve talked to them about this

and if any of the players see this (i doubt it) i’m genuinely trying to make the experience better for everyone

[the-goblin-brew]

It’s always awkward to have that talk

I run a 5e game every saturday, in my own world I’ve made, which is fun. I’ve got 3 players which enjoy my world, and 1 player who. Well, he likes to smash things. 

He’s honestly not the brightest, but he really enjoys playing, and to be frank, he’s my most reliable player in terms of showing up, and giving me a good heads up if he’s going to miss a session, which, I’m sure, some DMs can really appreciate. 

However, he’s, shall we say, not the most socially adept, and to make it even worse, this is an online game, where a lot of the social cues we get are simply not available, as we can’t see each other, so we’re relying almost entirely on vocal indicators, which is a bit lacking in terms of actual social cues. 

One issue we have is that he had a tendency to want to run off by himself to do something that his character wants, and usually it’s something pretty unreasonable, and it tends to leave the rest of the players hanging while I try to direct him back to the actual game we’re playing. 

I run a game where, if you do something stupid, you’re probably going to have a bad day. But, for whatever reason, he seems to navigate these situations he creates without actually crossing the line into actual ‘the bear eats you’ territory. 

Today, one of my other players finally had a enough, and brought it up during the game. There was a brief conversation about it, and the player seemed a bit taken aback, and got quite for awhile while the rest of the players moved the game forward. 

After the session ended for the day, the player and I were the last ones in the chat(again, it’s an online game, and given the geographical locations of my players, there’s no chance of it being anything else), and he asked me if he was a bad player.

So this led to an actual, very overdue, discussion about how there’s other players in the game and it’s not super cool to wander off by yourself and trying to do something that’s wildly unlikely to even succeed for a large period of time while the other players are just hanging out waiting. 

I took pains to make sure that the gist of the conversation was that he was simply missing some indications and that I perhaps needed to be more direct with him in terms of ‘no that will not work’, and stressing that, in fact, he was not a bad player. 

I honestly should have had this conversation with him awhile ago, but I suck at initiating things like that. Perhaps a failing on my part, as a GM. However, the point is, sometimes you have to have these conversations, and honestly, the player may not even REALIZE that there’s an issue, and when they find out, they might be a bit mortified to learn they’ve been creating an issue for everyone. 

Remember. Not all problem players WANT to create problems. 

[dm-it-janet]

Fast travel?

So I’m running Tomb of Annihilation. It’s going slowly. It doesn’t help that the group can’t seem to get together more than once a month, but that’s neither here nor there.

The group has already passed the deadline for saving the quest giver. By over a week. They change their collective mind on what they’re doing constantly. Which is to be expected, and I’ve been prepared for since day one. No big deal.

What is a big deal: The last 3 or 4 sessions have been spent in travel from Kir Sabal to Nangalore, getting through Nangalore, and preparing to leave again. Then they decide to go back to Kir Sabal, and beyond that to Needle’s Bones.

The idea is that they want to go raid the possible hoard there in the hopes of finding better weapons and such. Which is a legitimate thing.

At the same time every last one of the players has openly admitted that they “could have probably gotten lots of stuff, but we just never finish anything” and that they have “passed a lot of things we could have done”. So they missed out on both loot and major xp. 

Now, my conundrum.

They are currently level 4. If they travel to either the Heart of Ubtao or to Omu, they would be at an appropriate level to explore Omu by the time they get there. (Suggested minimum level is 5, and there are 5 players.) Well.... if they explored some of what would be presented to them. But since they’re not doing anything unless they are specifically attacked, the only way to ensure they get xp or loot or anything is to have them constantly under attack???

But if they take the time to go back toward Needle’s Bones, not only would they possibly be OP (which I can compensate for), but it would also allow time for the artifact to have grown in power (which is a thing specifically outlined in the book) and literally goes directly against the objective of the entire module. Y’know. Find the artifact and either neutralize or destroy it. 

So... Do I simply make the trek back incredibly difficult? Do I find a way to provide quick transport? Do I write in some sort of effect from the artifact gaining power?

I’m kind of at a loss, here. The last thing I want to do is seriously force the group’s hand one way or another, but for pity’s sake...