#quadrant vacillation

[vivaciousinsomniac]

dirkjohn day 16…….. TROLLSTUCK!!!

they keep vacillating. john has not seen this in the movies. he is flying completely blind.

[kai-username]

Trickster Mode!!!!!!!!!!!

Has anyone done Trickster Tavros with the Peter Pan Peanut butter theme yet? Well if not, I have.

Pepper Jam Eridan!!! There's more than one way to make PB&J!!! Eridan gave me so much grief when coloring him in...

Milquius.

[microchelle]

I struggle a lot with finding a style that sits right with me... But this kinda feels decent???

Anyways enjoy your DaveKat syddggdgd

[shjiyemis]

@vermocci + previous post

I've been observing that recently a lot of fans tend to say that shipping Karkat with quadrants in mind is going against his character cause the way he feels romantic emotions are much more human. I wanna explain why it bothers a bit:

I disagree A LOT with the "human" part because emotions and relationships in GENERAL is already very human (with that argument, this can apply to ALL the trolls to me, if it's about the monogamy what does that say about folks who are polyamorous? Idk it just feels like a really bad explanation). There's just a cultural difference that I feel like majority of the fandom doesn't really want to explore and when it comes to homestuck and the fact that they're aliens kind of makes this feel "ridiculous" to me (I feel that sounds a bit mean so I apologize). People also say things like "Why would you WANT them to do quadrants, its a result of an oppressive society." if you try to argue against this concept but like,,, so is marriage and just generally how relationships are pushed onto society is already a VERY similar concept. A lot of this fandom forgets human society is very oppressive already, not just class wise but also in many other ways (ableism, racism, sexism & classism /and many other -isms/ are historically intertwined and you cant really talk about classism as a whole without talking about the many other things that WILL affect your class because of the society we ALREADY live in).

I feel that people tend to ignore a lot of the toxic traits that Karkat has because the fandom has basically woobified him to the point they view these traits as cute quirks. One of those traits are his controlling and somewhat obsessive feelings for Terezi. They view his feelings of "wanting Terezi in every quadrant" as him being explicitely more human than the other trolls. I actually don't MIND the concept but the way I've seen the majority go about it feels like an over simplification of Karkat's emotions and a glorification of human society, i guess that in itself bothers me.

A lot of those aspects regarding Terezi are INCREDIBLY toxic too. Karkat, throughout that whole arc, was basically objectifying Terezi. He tried to get Dave to "share" Terezi with him and even tried to make a chart (This is where the dick ouija happened. Karkat was body slammed right after because he started throwing a tantrum and got tangled in Dave's cape lol)

I also keep in mind that Karkat's 13-15 during these times but even than. If you saw a 13-15 year old boy getting on the way Karkat was in real life, i feel that would be a very scary and weird experience especially for the person that being pined for.

Now that I think about it, I feel like if it was any other character doing this, the fandom would def call them an incel 😭

To me, Karkat's love for her was very much glorified infatuation with obsessive attributes. It doesn't help that the comic only writes it all as a joke so I don't think the fandom really can see past all the barriers that the comic gives you. Especially with it uplifting his good attributes. (And not taking the bad ones seriously.)

I do think Karkat is a very genuine and observant individual but he's also incredibly selfish in a lot of bad ways and I think the fandom really tries to look past that. Karkat saw so much of Terezi's good qualities and put her on such a high pedestal he was only seeing a version of Terezi that was only just good, which just isn't true to her character. (I love Terezi but just like most of the characters she isn't perfect.)

I DO think Karkat does feel love in non-traditional ways but that can easily be seen as him being a hopeless romantic (He's obsessed with romcoms and I feel like some of us MUST have known SOMEBODY who was such a hopeless romantic that their beliefs about relationships were honestly incredibly unrealistic and possibly delusional and I feel like we can easily see that Karkat is just a troll equivalent to that to some degree). I don't think Karkat SPECIFICALLY is delusional but his expectations are very unrealistic, especially for Terezi. He also just.... loves quads, he loves analyzing and talking about them AND labeling certain behaviors as something that could be quad pining. So that also makes the whole "Karkat wouldn't do quads." kind of ridiculous to me. (I say this as someone who's aromantic but LOVES analyzing, writing, and exploring romantic relationships and feelings. I'm DEFINITELY not saying Karkat CAN'T realize quads aren't for him and adopt a more human way of going about relationships and still be into quads. It just feels a bit ridiculous to say "you don't get his character if you think he would do quads").

I also feel that a lot of the things people point out as "more human" can also be the already known taboos in troll culture. Quadrant Vacilliation is already a known taboo that's even written in books and movies that Karkat is obsessed with. Karkat being polyquad/polyamorous is also something that seems possible (like, having more than one person in one quad. I feel like that can also easily make sense). There's a lot of ways to view Karkat's romantic orientation and I don't think there's "one right way" to view it. So I am a bit bothered by the "Karkat wouldn't do quads, his emotions are way more human for that oppressive relationship system formed by troll society." It feels disingenuous, especially when they're saying it's the only right way to see him.

Emotions are complicated so when analyzing them you're not going to get just one result.

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Also, hopefully this didn't come off as too condescending or judgemental. I DO think understanding Karkat's journey with his romantic orientation CAN be about moving towards monogamy and it's a COMPLETELY valid understanding of his character. I just don't like the points that are made in the majority of the explanations given or how folks treat it like the only good truthful way to look at that aspect of Karkat's character cause they generally feel they lack a lot of nuance or they just feel disingenuous/go about it very obtusely. It doesn't help that a lot of the things just don't ring true to life in my eyes.

I mostly added images and gifs because blocks of just text gets really hard to read for so I like putting pictures for convenience for not only me but others. So some of them don't necessarily align with the paragraph before or after but I tried to at least make it seem that way 🙏🏾

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Also thank you! Are you talking about the Revolutionary Girl Utena AU or The Egg Route?

[neopronouns]

flag id: two flags with 5 stripes, with the third being twice the size of the rest. the right flag's stripes are medium dark red, soft red, a vertical gradient from pale red to dove grey, dark silver, and purple-black. the left flag's stripes are purple-black, dark silver, a vertical gradient from dove grey to pale red, soft red, and medium dark red. end id.

banner id: a 1600x200 teal banner with the words ‘please read my dni before interacting. those on my / dni may still use my terms, so do not recoin them.’ in large white text in the center. the text takes up two lines, split at the slash. end id.

red-to-black | black-to-red

general flags for (homestuck) quadrant vacillation for anon!

colors are from en8y's alloflushedrom, allopalerom, allopitchrom, and alloashenrom flags, with a gradient stripe in the middle to represent the change from one quadrant to another.

i've also queued flags for all possible two-quadrant vacillations!

also, either flag can be used for vacillation in general, but they can also represent red quadrant to black quadrant vacillation and black quadrant to red quadrant vacillation respectively!

tags: @radiomogai, @liom-archive, @macchiane, @genderstarbucks, @orientation-archive

tags cont: @maggore, @dragonpride17, @en8y

dni link

[dancestorshipping]

aranea x damara 8ut its like redrom-blackrom vacillation if ya get me

哀れ

[chaidottealeaves]

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

DAVEKAT QUADRANT-TALK METEORSTUCK!! 💿🦀

You are ABSOLUTELY FUCKING EXHAUSTED. You, as in, KARKAT VANTAS, the non-god-tiered KNIGHT OF BLOOD. How the fuck did your session lack blood; that is so stupid, so frond-blendingly stupid, you want to scream. Lots of things make you want to scream. It has been A FEW HUMAN MONTHS since the end of your session. You are ON THE FLOOR. You could never hold a quadrant with Terezi. And apparently, neither can Dave. Something has to be seriously wrong with the both of you.

well hello there!! i have finally managed to finish a fic again. wahoo. this one took way longer than i wanted it too because i got far too stuck on the complexities of karkat's vacillation issues. i decded that, ultimately, some of it should be saved for a fic where they're a bit older and actually dating.

i just really wanted to unpack some of the shit with terezi in a pre-retcon timeline. like it all kinda goes to shit, and it's definitely explored, but i've always wanted to see a conversation between dave and karkat in the MIDDLE of everything going to shit. i imagine things went off the rails pretty quick lol. i hope you enjoy :>>>

AO3 TAGS: POV Second Person, POV Karkat Vantas, Meteorstuck, Pre-Retcon Timeline, Pre-Relationship, Quadrant Confusion, Quadrant Vacillation, Mild Angst, Phantom of the Opera References, Self-Hating Karkat Vantas, (fork found in kitchen lmfao), Humour

[explaining-homestuck]

can you please explain quadrents (specifically moirailegince? i see alot of people dont seem to get it and id love to have a post to link back to when i explain it instead of having to go through homestuck)

Ah, tackling the big one first.

Homestuck itself has its own explanation of quadrants, which starts on Page 2392. However, I'll take a stab at simplifying the explanation here, although I may take direct quotes from the comic.

Humans have only one form of romance. And though we consider it a complicated subject, [...] it is ultimately a superficial slice of what trolls consider the full body of romantic experience. Our concept of romance [...] is still just [...] a single, linear concept.

(I guess I will be taking direct quotes from the comics.)

This concept of human love is generally represented with the symbol <3, or ❤️. However, trolls, in keeping with the Midnight Crew's full set of playing card theming, have four different types of romance, to fit the four suits.

<3/♥️, Hearts; <3</♠️, Spades; c3</♣️, Clubs; and <>/♦️, Diamonds.

This creates 4 Quadrants of romance, a term that is often used to refer to love and romantic entanglement.

Here, Nepeta's helpful diagram shows how these quadrants are related.

Hearts, the Flushed Quadrant, and Diamonds, the Pale Quadrant, are grouped as "Red Romance". These are the quadrants more associated with what we would possibly call positive feelings.

Meanwhile, Spades the Caliginous Quadrant (often called "Pitch"), and Clubs, the Ashen quadrant, are grouped as "Black Romance", more associated with negative feelings (to a degree, the divide isn't as simple as that.)

Furthermore, Hearts and Spades are Concupiscent Quadrants, and Diamonds and Clubs are Conciliatory Quadrants. These terms relate to the purpose of these quadrants within troll society: Concupiscent (which has meanings of sexual desire) Quadrants are related directly to the reproductive cycle of the troll species. Meanwhile, Conciliatory (meaning to placate of pacify) Quadrants, quote:

"would be more closely likened to platonic relationships by human standards"

Note: this does not make them necessarily platonic relationships in troll society. Pale and Ashen relationships remain romantic, and there may possibly also be sexual elements (not that these are shown or implied in the comic, nor will they be theorised upon here).

The comic makes it clear that while many parallels can be drawn between troll romance and certain human relationships (for example, "frenemies" or "QPRs"), these relationships are different from troll ones, as trolls are driven by primal forces to engage in their 4 types of romance, in the same way we do with our one (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification of the vast spectrum of the human experience of attraction and possible lack thereof, but it's a fair rough analogy.)

Let us now move on to the first and easiest to understand quadrant:

♥️: The Flushed Quadrant

The Flushed Quadrant is (almost) exactly the same as human romantic and/or sexual attraction. For our purposes, ♥️=❤️.

While the trolls have no concept of marriage, and don't generally use the terms boyfriend/girlfriend, the term for a partner in the Flushed Quadrant is a Matesprit, meaning the two trolls have formed a Matespritship.

The given example within Homestuck canon at the time of a Matespritship was Dad Egbert and Mom Lalonde. Several other well known examples are Rose Lalonde and Kanaya Maryam, Latula Pyrope and Mituna Captor, and Jade Harley and Davesprite (during the Yellow Yard trip, before John's 15th birthday). Many others exist, as well as flushed crushes (Kanaya Maryam for Vriska Serket, Nepeta Leijon for Karkat Vantas, etc.)

Note: Humans can take part in Quadrant relationships outside of the Flushed Quadrant, though some trolls thought this impossible.

Next, we explain

♠️: The Pitch (Caliginous) Quadrant

The simplest explanation of Pitch is always "romance, but with hate instead of love". People often find that hard to understand, but it's a trope that appears throughout media. One of the best examples I've found is LEGO Batman and LEGO Joker in the LEGO Batman Movie.

However, it's much more than simply "hate love". A Kisemesistude is more akin to a fierce arch-rivalry, with a troll competing against their Kismesis to outfox, outsmart, or simply defeat them.

The given example for a Kismesistude is Jack Noir and the Black Queen. Another example is Vriska Serket and Eridan Ampora's black romance, which fell apart before they started the game, Marquise Spinerette Mindfang and Orphaner Dualscar's Kismesistude, which they were mimicking, or Terezi Pyrope and Gamzee Makara's relationship in the pre-retcon timeline.

Note: no successful Kismesistudes exist within the main body of Homestuck: Vriska broke things off with Eridan and likewise Mindfang with Dualscar, and Gamzee was physically and mentally abusing Terezi. All canon kismesistudes have either not budded, or ended with one of the two Kismesis dumping the other, or attempting to kill them. (John and Terezi doesn't count in this case, as its continuation only exists in the Epilogues, a dubiously canon source.) This does not, however, mean all Kismesistudes are doomed to fail.

There are also numerous Pitch crushes, such as Eridan Ampora on Rose Lalonde, Gamzee Makara on Dave Strider (or possibly the Insane Clown Posse, it's unclear) and the aforementioned John Egbert for Terezi Pyrope and vice versa.

Now, it wouldn't be a Homestuck post without an Intermission (possibly the first of several!)

🪣: The Bucket Intermission

I'll keep this short.

Flushed and Pitch pairings can, through undescribed processes, produce a combination of genetic material, which is then collected in a Filial Pail (bucket) by Imperial Drones to be fed to the Mother Grub, who then makes all the baby trolls from the gametes, probably.

Hussie also wrote a short paragraph about dominant and recessive genes which makes me think they know less about dominant and recessive genes than the writers of Metal Gear Solid, but that's not that important right now.

If a troll is unable to provide suitable generic materials, they will be culled by the drone, meaning finding concupiscent quadrantmates is a key goal for a troll's survival.

Anyway, back to romance, with

♣️: The Ashen Quadrant

The clubs symbol notably has 3 circles, which relates to the way this relationship (the most misunderstood one, in my experience) works.

Clubs relationships, or Auspisticisms, are formed when a third troll sees a pair involved in a feud, and decides to step in to mediate, becoming their Auspistice. The purpose of an Auspistice is not the mediate and grow a Pitch relationship, as it's often portrayed, but in fact prevent it from developing.

This is because trolls often feud with each other, causing possible Kismesistudes, but (conventionally) troll romance is monogamous in-quadrant, and having two or more Kismesis would be considered infidelity in conventional troll society, as well as that too many Kismesistudes can increase danger in troll society, and mis-matched rivalries can cause trolls to be stuck in relationships they do not like.

An Auspisticism is often defined by the attraction specifically of the Auspistice *toward* the rival pair, and their wish to mediate them. This is known as an Ashen Crush, much like above Pitch and Flushed Crushes.

Examples of known Auspisticisms within canon Homestuck are Kanaya Maryam between Vriska Serket and Tavros Nitram, Doc Scratch between Spades Slick and Snowman (though Scratch's intervention was more driven by accomplishing his own goal of having Slick kill Snowman), and Jade Harley between Bec Noir and the Peregrine Mendicant in [S] Collide, though this ended in failure.

Next, let's move onto

♥️🔁♠️: Quadrant Vacillation

Another known occurrence within troll society and its romantic framework is the Vacillation of two trolls between multiple quadrants. While canon only gives examples of Flushed/Pitch Vacillation, it's stated that this is but the most common type of Vacillation.

This occurs because troll relationships are incredibly malleable. To quote from the comic again:

In many cases, one party will have red feelings while the other has black. But it will often be the case that one party's feelings will swap to match the other's, since there is no quadrant which naturally accommodates such a disparity. But thereafter, it's not uncommon for the two to toggle between red and black in unison now and then. These scenarios naturally result in both red and black infidelities.

This is stated to be a key reason for the existence of the Ashen and Pale quadrants, to prevent such infidelities. Auspistices are intended to be able to stabilise these turbulent relationships, but failure to uphold this role can lead to more instability and chaos within the mixed relationship.

Equius Zahhak and Aradiabot are shown as the key example of Vacillation, caused by Aradia's distain of the former for his rudeness and the fact he planted a chip inside her robot body that would make her love him, and Equius's attraction to the latter paired with his somewhat fetishisation of the caste system (a story for another time). Vriska Serket and Tavros Nitram's relationship is also mentioned, with Vriska's continued mimicking of Mindfang pushing her to meld Tavros into a fitting Matesprit, while at the same time expressing distain for his unwillingness to broach a relationship, and his wimpish behaviour. This is also further complicated by Tavros genuinely being attracted to Vriska, but too scared of her to commit to a relationship, and their Auspistice Kanaya Maryam's flushed crush on Vriska also, leading to her slacking her duties so to speak.

And now, we move onto the final quadrant, the specifically requested one:

♦️: The Pale Quadrant

Pale relationships are called a Moirallegiance, in which two trolls are Moirails. This quadrant can be liked to soulmates, but with a more platonic (yet still romantic) lean.

Moirails, also called Palemates, exist with the purpose to calm down and pacify their Pale partner. Trolls are (said to be) inherently an angry, violent species, with some being dangerous to themselves or society if left alone. Pale attraction exists for a troll of such tendencies to find a partner who can pacify them (positively), and for even-tempered trolls to seek out those who would benefit from their assistance.

A perfect Moirallegiance is said to consist of two trolls who mutually pacify and assist each other, whose emotional profiles fit together well, helping them to form other relationships in different quadrants with ease.

Moirallegiance is often confused by trolls for platonic friendship, and vice versa, and furthermore, Flushed attraction may be confused for Pale. The Flushed quadrant is said to be "more red" than the Pale one by Eridan Ampora, and likewise the Pitch quadrant "blacker" than the Ashen one, as one might expect from their describing colours.

The most well known Moirallegiance in Homestuck would of course be Meowrails, Nepeta Leijon and Equius Zahhak. Others include the Draconian Dignitary and Bec Noir, Karkat Vantas and Gamzee Makara, and Feferi Peixes and Eridan Ampora (although Eridan held a Flushed crush for Feferi, similar to the one Kanaya held for Vriska during her Moirallegiance with her).

Finally, the an important thing that Moirail can do for their partner, in cases of both dire need of calming down, and a lighter gesture of aid, is the Shoosh Pap, performed by Karkat Vantas to Gamzee Makara to calm him down from his murderous rampage at the end of Act 5 Act 2. Karkat says:

IT'S JUST A TROLL THING, HUMANS WOULDN'T GET IT. 

You would think this is everything, and it almost is, but Hussie's explanation forgoes one particular part of troll romance that is only later elaborated on by Karkat:

♥️♠️♥️♠️: Group Vacillation

Um.

You see.

Do you get it?

I think the diagram is clear enough.

Ok, we're done here.

Edit: it is worth noting that this system of quadrants is actually quite limited, both in terms of actual occurrences in the comic, and how it is often portrayed in fanfiction and fanworks, as (due to its time of writing) does not take into account polyamory in the same quadrant.

Edit 2: Redrom also has nothing canonically related to "pity". Saying "I pity you" to a Moirail or Matesprit in place of "I love you" is not a normal thing for trolls; it's based in a model that exclusively Karkat Vantas came up with and talks about, because of his repressed emotional state; he believes there can only be two emotions, hate and pity, and all other emotions are derived from the two. It's not an accurate representation of the workings of troll romance, only a reflection of his state within the comic.

If you want to know *all* about *all* canon examples of *all* four quadrants, or explanation of the other species's versions of romance, those will have to come at a later date. I could also probably make diagrams. But that will have to do for now, I'm afraid. If you find any inaccuracies that aren't about the spelling of Moirallegiance, (trust me, even the comic doesn't know how to spell it), please let me know! I can also probably answer any questions or clarifications in any reblogs, asks, or replies, but they won't necessarily be this extensive.

(Oh and also if anyone wants me to explain that one gif from the section, I can do that too. You know the one.)