"It might be that chaos in general is eating my life, and everything is tending towards less and less order. And, in that case, hopefully it sounds cool and is invaluable to somebody, because I don’t really know how to stop it. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to go back."
"When I do shows, I don’t like to just sit there and show my musical skill. I like to eat rocks. I like to bite people. I like to drool on myself. I like to hump the cello. I do whatever, because there’s like, a jester-y, clown goblin within that has its own agenda. So, my life is, like, trying to work on that relationship between the wizard, and the jester/goblin/clown/lunatic."
Interview with Rushad Eggleston, The Happy Musicians Podcast, 3/21/2022
Tanner Guss: Welcome to the Happy Musicians Podcast.
Rushad Eggleston: Zarnox.
(...) Can we go to thirteen-year old you? I’ve heard you say that you had, like, you called it a faith formula. At that age, you kind of decided some pretty concrete things about how you wanted to live and play music.
Thanks for noticing that. That takes somebody that’s a true fan to have found out that I said that, that you searched that out or whatever. Yeah, it was a very sudden choice, to head in one direction and burn all other bridges. (…) My faith formula was that, like, if I just focused all of my energy on music, then good things will happen. I didn’t foresee that there was so many other things in life that could knock you off-track, potentially... but that’s still basically been my formula. For better or for worse, you know? It is what it is, and I am where I am, and that’s my formula and I’m sticking to it.
~
It sounds like when you talk about how much time you spend with your craft, it’s just because you really love the process of exploring the cello. But, what is your relationship with practice? Maybe I’m getting poetic about it.
Yeah, I would say that that’s true. (…) When I found out that by practicing, I could free myself from all of the other ensnarements of life, I was like, yeah. Totally into this, you know? Like, escapist fantasy, you know? You can just sit there, and just like, practice and like, get good, and then by getting good, you can prove to people that you deserve to not work, or anything? [laughs] I don’t know, that’s maybe tied up in some weird stuff that people are weird about these days. But basically, yeah, practicing sounds like, really fun to me. When I say practice, I just mean sometimes just sitting there and like, playing it. Just like, whatever you do, if you pick up your instrument, you’re practicing. (…) Full exploration. Like, if I picked up the cello right now and just made a bunch of noise, that’s practicing. How is that not practicing?
~
I do think a big tenet of happiness and of wellbeing is authenticity—and that seems to be a general idea associated with you, because what you do is so specific that it comes across as so authentic. And, this idea of finding yourself, or finding your voice, is something we’re all thinking about, and I’m curious to how you relate to that idea—because I don’t know many people who continue to evolve like you do. I think you’re, what, forty-two?
That’s right.
And still, so much seem to be evolving as a person. Which I find really inspiring. But how do you think about authenticity, and exploring this voice?
It’s almost like an unwritten contract. Or, we won’t say unwritten, why would it be written? It’s written on my—it is written on my soul. The contract of doing my thing, being myself, and just going for it, whatever it is. (…) You could say that that’s gonna lead me towards enlightenment, or you could say that it’s leading me away from enlightenment, you could say whatever—and then you could write it in a book, and then the world could end tomorrow, or then the world could maybe not end tomorrow, but it would end in fifteen hundred years and then, like, whoops—or like, we got picked up by an alien civilization, and sorry, they forgot to bring your book that said that I like, ‘did it for the wrong reasons’, onto their… it didn’t make it. And so whoops, there goes all our history! And oh, whoops, they forgot about frickin’ The Beatles too, or, like, whatever—you know what I mean? Who cares, really. So, I don’t know, that part is not really so important. The point, for me, is—it’s like, similar to the faith formula when I was young. It’s just like a, do what I want to do, do it the best I can, and just like, keep doing that. I’ve always been allergic to things that I don’t like, and doing stuff I don’t want to do. If I find myself in a situation where I’m… having to not be authentic, or something, I don’t even have to think “oh, I’m not being authentic here”. I’m just like, over it. Outta here. You know what I mean? So it’s always—it’s been, uh, it’s been kinda automatic. It was definitely getting to the point, even though the folk situation was very successful, I just didn’t feel like I was properly representing myself in the world, and I wanted to get out of that situation before I became too well-known for doing stuff that I wasn’t super into. You know?
~
After having made this decision to go all in, does it feel any easier?
Uh… no, in a lot of ways, it feels a lot harder, you know?
Okay.
Which is, uh, weird. There’s some ways in which it’s easier. But, I mean, to like… [groans] Back then, all I had to do was show up, you know? Just get myself to the zone, and then to the place we were playing, and then get paid. Easy times. Way easy. This way, is like, a lot more uncertain. Blazing your own trail—there’s a good example. If you walk down a road that is a road, it’s a lot easier and smoother-going than if you were walking through a dense thicket of brush, and poison oak, and manzanita bush. Which I know, because I have done this for many hours, many many many miles. (…) There are plenty of awesome zones too, where the trails actually do go. I’ve been there, but—there’s something about the magic of blazing your own trail and you’re not even making a trail, you’re just freaking climbing through the bush to get to a mystical place. And that’s what it feels like now. And sometimes you might blaze your own trail to the middle of nowhere. (…) Like, ‘man, what is this?’ So sometimes, that’s how I feel in my life. Where, on days where I, naturally, I doubt myself, and all the people that told me I should do this, and ‘hey, you had it good, why did you stop that?’, or ‘why don’t you go back to when you did some of that?’, or ‘why don’t you do any of that stuff anymore?’, and all those questions and all those voices that come in my head. On certain days, I get tired of pointing at them and being like ‘you’re not my voice, screw you!’ and ‘I am proud’. And then, they become my own voice, my own… yeah. And it then becomes massive self-hatred, and then I’m like, you’ve blazed a trail into the middle of nowhere, what are you doing? Why are you here? What are you hoping to find? You know? People like nice music. Why don’t you play some nice music for people, you know? Why don’t you, like, do something that’ll make you successful and make you some money, you know? Like, don’t you get tired of freakin’ wearing a hat all the time and like, getting weirder and weirder, and don’t you get tired of just singing in tongues, and just like, being a freak all the time? So, you know, uh… it is not necessarily easier. But, it’s more holy. It’s more holy, because it’s a quest. It’s a quest to find a dream, devout, or seldom-glimpsed, but always-remembered. Magic, you know what I mean? Something glimmering in the distance, maybe you saw it once; you saw the magic land, you know that there is the magic land, and you’re gonna go there. No matter what. And maybe you’ll get sidetracked and pulled in all kinds of directions, but in general, the state is: being on a holy quest to find the magic land. So.
That candidness and honesty is quite moving. I guess, it’s easy to see someone do what you do, and be like, ‘that’s so neat that they, like, live their life so authentically’. (…) To hear you be honest about, well, sometimes those voices get to you, and you do have to live with that, and answer for yourself like, 'is this just weird for the sake of being weird? Is this crazy or, is it brilliant?' You still are like, weighing those thoughts. You haven’t escaped those.
Oh, I mean, I think that due to the nature of the world and everything, I don’t know if those thoughts are so escapable, you know? I mean, momentarily. That’s why I like climbing trees and playing shows, 'cause those times I don’t have to think those thoughts. You know? Or, I sit here and I work on my technique. I mean, I’m not saying that I have it figured out. Look, I have a problem even doing stuff that’ll get me more shows. I have a hard time promoting my own music if it possibly involves any type of work or like, doing anything like getting an actual microphone. I’m just addicted to doing the easiest thing, you know what I mean? I still think that it is a battle. I mean, life is kind of a battle. You sign up for a battle. And then, every day you must battle. But, it being a holy quest, and being awesome—is cool.
It is cool. It’s funny to me, because you… you talk about climbing under brush for hours to reach a tree, like you aren’t averse to doing the easy thing. There are struggles that you endure that are way off the easy path, to find something new.
Oh! Oh—I see what you’re saying. Yeah. You’re right, you’re right. (…) Or, like, sitting down or recording something, or booking studio time, because it involves so many decisions, I’m like, dude, why don’t I just work on my technique—my bounce—more? Because, that’s more in the spirit of exploring. I am kind of an adventurous person. I like adventures. I like following the wild magic into the void and seeing what is in the void. 'Cause everyone thinks it’s just a void, but it’s a colorful void. There are cats. Wild serpents. Rainbow-headed dragon cats. Doing what’s easy… yeah, I don’t know. I guess in some ways it’s easy, and in some ways it’s not.
~
I love the idea of chaotic good and I feel like you’re a great ambassador for that. I call it the 'Creed Bratton effect'. I don’t know if you ever saw the show The Office.
Nuh-uh.
There’s this character whose whole thing is, like, every time he says something it’s weird. Like, he’s just a bizarre character, but everyone seems to love him. And at the same time, when you want to do some, like, weird music, people shy away, like, why are you doing that? And it’s like, maybe the world just needs some Creed action. (…)
I’m sure it was said to you in school that no one is making anything new and sometimes when I think about creativity, that is how I experience it, it’s more curation as opposed to pure creation. But you seem like someone who, in more ways than one—the bounce technique, and Snee, and the languages and words that you use—is actually exploring virgin territory.
Well, thanks.
Is that how you experience it?
(...) The chaos that was waiting to happen got more chaotic, and I don’t know. Yeah, virgin territory? I don’t know. (…) I mean, I understand you on the reorganizing—I’ve thought before that everybody is kinda, like, you know, a lot of musicians will criticize DJs and stuff, but like, in a way, they’re DJs just on a smaller level, you know what I mean? It’s like, oh, you’re just remixing stuff that exists in a more particle level. So, in a way, everyone’s doing that. I also make up a lot of melodies, but whenever you make up a melody, there’s a couple notes together that are from some other melody. There’s always gonna be that element of recycling, and that’s cute and to be enjoyed. And then there’s stuff that is way more wild, and I’m trying to get into some new territory, because that’s what’s exciting to me, you know? [plays cello] It’s in a weird tuning. Which we kinda like now, because it causes a new thing to happen. [cello] I like doing weird riffs, when it’s in a weird tuning. [cello] I could sit here and do riffs in time signatures, and I still do. [cello] A lot of times, in the stuff I’ve been doing lately, I’ve been getting into this thing where it’s just like, eternal. So, it like, never starts and it never ends. And it’s just going on forever. And you just start wherever, and like, grab a piece of it. So it doesn’t matter even if you cut off the beginning of it, you just gotta get the kazoo solo at some point. [cello and kazoo] [guttural sounds]
Yeah.
So those are just some of my ideas right now. There’s a lot of things to explore. And you might say, hey, there are a lot of, uh, you’re just exploring different ways of painting the color brown or something. But maybe it’s because I’m questing after the holy brown rainbow, whose delights are unknown to the people who are seeking the—you know, the standard rainbow that is sold at Target, or whatever… You know what I mean?
Yeah, that’s… Well, thank you for sharing a bit of that with us. So, that’s the general essence of a whole live show from you these days? It’s—shades of that?
I still like music. (…) [classical cello solo] [guttural sounds] It’s addicting, you know? For better, or for worse, I mean, parents, grandparents, friends, they’ll be a little bit concerned, you know? That a person who was always trying real hard to get good at music would suddenly, like, try to get bad at music, and to do things that are not in rhythm, and like, not in a key, but, I don’t know. I mean.
I was gonna ask how your family, how they’ve reacted to your cello goblin pursuits. I mean, you just kind of hinted at it. Has that been something where, you get a call like, ‘how are things going?’
Where, you mean, when people are like, concerned about me?
Yeah—I only ask because you just mentioned it.
Right. I feel that, I mean. Yeah. I would say that in small ways most of my friends—well, some of my friends, and family, we won’t say most or anything, but… a lot of people have indicated to me, you know, in subtle ways, that I’m really kinda, like, out of touch. Off base. Like, doesn’t make any sense to them. They don’t really understand where I’m going anymore. That’s why I’m thanking you right now, for making it at least temporarily verifiable, because you’re a person and you’re interested in my whole thing. Which is cool. Yeah. A lot of people have let me know that… I’m, uh, just losing everybody, you know? But that’s okay, ‘cause, um, as you go through life and get older, things get better. You get wiser. You get better at music. And, uh, the most exciting times are the ones that are ahead. [clears throat] I’m very excited about that.
You had said a little bit earlier you feel like you’re getting more and more chaotic, but that’s not something that you can stop, or that you want to stop, because the territory you’re finding is so—enriching? But, at least in how you said it, I did feel like—does it feel like your whole life is getting more and more chaotic? Like, do you still feel, uh, maybe in control is just something that you don’t desire, but, in how you said it just now, it… it came across as like, I’m hurtling towards something and I don’t know if—if I’m still driving the bus. I don’t know if what I’m saying makes sense. It seems like you at least have a sense of—perception, that this could get out of hand? I don’t know if I’m making sense, but… You seem very self-aware of the situation.
Well, that’s cool, yeah?
And at the same time, self-aware that it’s wild.
Oh, yeah. I agree. It’s wild. I’m not exactly sure where it’s going. It’s fun because it feels really good to do. Like sometimes, I can be in a really weird mood, or super depressed—I mean, yeah, it goes without saying that yeah, I deal with depression and also, um, getting weirder and weirder as a musician and having my normal source of being accepted and feeling good in the world be, like, questioned because I’ve gotten so weird, you know what I mean? I was, like, the first child, and the first grandchild, and, like, small-town hero for a second, full-scholarship to music school, yeah, on tour with people, everybody’s like, rooting for you, woo-woo-woo, you know? And then, suddenly, you get weirder and weirder and weirder, and people are like, okay, and then suddenly you’re like, not reaching as many people and… it can add to the depression. Because you can start to question, like, why? And you’re not getting that normal.. you got other things, though. I have some great viral videos. I have some super fans. And some people after shows, a lot of people, actually, are like, hey, that was the coolest thing I’ve ever seen. (…) I take that stuff and I’m like, yes. This means that there is holiness. If I was really on a bad path, I would, um… there would be obvious signs to turn around, you know what I mean? Obviously if you do anything new and different, everyone’s gonna be like, hey! (…) People are going to be trying to keep you on Earth. But if you’re from Mars, it’s different.
~
“Why is it not cool for me to just be a once-very-skilled musician who is spiraling out of control mentally and enjoying the process? What’s wrong with that? That one day I’ll be dead? So will everyone.”
That's a lot to take in. It's interesting to hear someone say, like, 'spiraling out of control mentally', and in a self-aware way? And also be like, 'but that's fun'. Maybe that's a first for me, if I'm being honest. So, uh... reacting to that is virgin territory for me.
Everyone is spiraling out of control to some extent—or, they’re just on an established track so they’re safe in the numbers; the fact that other people have done it before. So if you’re gonna be going and making your own rules in life, it seems like, yeah, you can get weirder and weirder and maybe react to the world in a spiraling-out-of-control way. But, if you can find a way to enjoy it, and make it art, then that makes everything okay, and that comes down to tying it into that—art and music is the ultimate holy salvation, for the artist or musician, because, if you can believe in it to the max, even if everybody else perceives you as a total complete weirdo or a lunatic, it doesn’t matter because you're in your bubble, you’re on this epic quest and maybe you're one of the greats and when you’re playing, you’re in this ultimate zone of transcendence, and you’re experiencing the most spiritual experience that you could, without, you know... I dunno, doing other stuff. (...) And how different is that from some dude over there in a cave that’s like, getting way spiritual, and he has everything that he needs up in the mind, but he’s just sitting there in a loincloth—what does their family think of that person? What does the world think of that person? They’re sitting there, like, mainlining God and pure experience, you know? They’re stoked. Maybe more happiness than anybody else. But, they might look crazy, or they might look like they’re not trying in life. (…) I’m saying that I think it’s pretty similar, and I think that it all comes down to being on a holy quest and making yourself stoked. And, I think I’m lucky that I have had the privilege in life of being able to pursue those passions—and have also kept responsibilities to a low, you know?
I'm excited, though. I'm excited to see where music goes, 'cause I know it's probably not going to stay in the same place. And, is chaos homogenous? Once you start, is there like, an edge of music, and then, once you go beyond it, then it's just all chaos, and it all is just jarblings of nonsense? I don't know. You're gonna find out. Maybe the chaos is a sea, and maybe there's some island of uncharted territories out there that no one's ever discovered—and that's the point of being an explorer. And, yeah.
Well, I like that.
