#theorybraindump

[dreamersbraindump]

Some things I've seen while binging people's Deltarune theories.

A lot of theories are kind of like Deltarune is taking from Undertale. When that's... Probably not true. Deltarune is a project Toby was planning before Undertale. But it was too big a project to be a starter. So really the statement should be, what of Undertale was taken from the concept of Deltarune.

We can safely assume that most of Deltarune's story was planned out if not complete. How would Toby have known it was too big a project otherwise. We can also safely assume that Toby was really set on this story! He made a different game instead of just making Deltarune a smaller project.

So with that we have a concrete idea that Undertale takes from Deltarune, not the other way around. And now you can look at characters a little differently. Toriel, Asgore, and even Temmie.

Toriel and Asgore's relationship is pretty fleshed out in Undertale. They were together, Asgore became depressed and made some tragic choices, Toriel noped on out of there and said bye. It's actually pretty simple. They aren't super fleshed out beyond the needed backstory to give them their roles. But in Deltarune, they become their own people. Asgore is a man on the ropes, he has friends, but he's a desperate man trying to get his family back. We're not even sure what he did, but it's enough for Toriel to want nothing to do with him, still care for him in some instance, (shes worried about Carol enabling his hobbies that might be trying to prove himself innocent or finding Dess), and not talk bad about him. (In Undertale she's openly pissed off about him, in Deltarune she's very amicable if awkward about him being brought up so far.) And Toriel is a... Not great goat mom. In my opinion she was always not great for the humans in her care. She lied, tried to keep them locked away. And then even knowing they would die, refused to go with them on this perilous journey through the underground. She was just like, "dont come back traitor" and then depressed when they died come on!

And the mechanics are simplified as well. In Undertale we play as a human that we are controlling. But there is no nuance of does this character want to do what Im telling them to do. Is the soul and body on the same page. The concept of a soul controlling a human host isn't new, we just got more details. Toby simplified it for Undertale because that was his first game! Cut out the things that make making a game harder.

And lastly. For this all to work with Gaster and what not? Deltarune had to be a forethought. Whats the point of adding a character to haunt the narrative, if in the end they mean nothing to the story. Alphys becoming the Royal scientist would have worked just as well if her predecessor simply passed away. And wasn't some guy who got torn to shreds by the space time continuum. Gaster being in Undertale was Toby's way of saying there is more. That there is more he wants to share with us. And that more was Deltarune. What better way to introduce this crazy experiment guy outside the game you're playing, than with a game that leaves hints about how he ended up where he is. Hints, I remind you, that lead to ZERO actual answers.

Anyway I've made my point. We have to stop thinking of Deltarune as a copy or taking likeness from Undertale and start doing the opposite. I understand we have all of Undertale and not all of Deltarune, but that doesn't change the order in which they were thought of.

[dreamersbraindump]

I'm 99% sure Sans Undertale is Sans Deltarune.

Undertale is the 2nd game, despite being made first. Deltarune is the first world, made as a forethought to Undertale.

Sans mentions in a genocide route that he has lost the will to return, and doesn't see them getting to the surface, either.

He says EITHER. Meaning that the surface was a secondary option. What else is he hoping to return to.

"But Toby says that it's different characters with different lives."

Yeah there are different characters leading different lives, and no Undertale won't be affected. It will be made. Because Undertale is ultimately a product of the story of Deltarune.

Sans lived a different life in Deltarune. Until something happened and he ends up in Undertale. Most of my reasoning comes from 1-4 and all of Undertale with notable inclusions from chapter 5 (which I have not finished at the time of writing this out) so I'll put spoiler warning before that!

So sans is new to hometown. In fact he's just moved recently. Which is a little suspicious that the one character we know has information about things like time anomalies and such has moved to the town we the player has just arrived in shortly before us. Papyrus is nowhere to be seen and as things escalate, becomes merely a forgotten promise to hang out. But odds are papyrus isn't going to be the same age as Kris. So Sans was never asking Kris to hang out with Papyrus. He was asking us. The player.

Big stretch I know, but let's take a look at entry 17!

The writer, as we are assuming, is Gaster. Mr. Wing dings himself. And he mentions 2 others about the experiment that we have come to a conclusion is about the dark worlds based on its dark yet darker wording. Now, in Undertale Gaster has been forgotten by all of the underground, fragments of his existence slip through, but he no longer exists. And shortly before we get to the underground. (This could range from months to a couple years) the Skeleton brothers show up in Snowdin. In a house that has a machine in the basement with blueprints and a note with a hastily drawn picture of 3 friends smiling. (Keep this in mind)

Now the only skeletons there are in the underground is Sans and Papyrus. And in pretty sure Sans is at the very least 1 of these 2 other people. And wild thought, I think the other is Toby Fox.

Now I could be wrong. It could be papyrus Deltarune as well. But I just need this out, maybe ill make a video about it later.

Now spoilers for chapter 5 just a small detail.

If you are playing the normal route at least you can stop by Sans ice cream cart with Susie Kris and Noelle. He says that he has a punch card and if you draw the people on it and give it back he'll take it. Susie does a hastily done drawing of the three of them. And Sans takes it back.

And I believe that is the same note drawing we find in Undertale. It's... It's too obvious to not be the case. This isn't a story Toby has to hide because we know it already. We know how Sans ends up. Sans isn't surprised when you go to the surface like Papyrus. He knows what the sun looks like! He has a door that looks like the doors in Deltarune made for fast travel. Sans Fast travels over the entirety of Undertale! And he does this thing where he's in two places at once. So I have one last theory.

2 Sans theory. Using the information I just gave you, There's a chance that there are 2 sans in Undertale. Sans Undertale and Sans Deltarune. And that is the second person Gaster is talking to. I know its a lot in one post, ill explain better after I finish chapter 5.