#tlt thoughts

[theriverbeyond]

this threesome could have been an email

[ludiosia]

Behold... Thalergy Theory!

"For some reason."

Why... wouldn't Harrow know this? Babies are new life; they're more Thalergy than Thanergy because they're actively growing and they're growing quickly; they're not decaying, not as biologically mature adults are. It would make sense then that the void would be larger if babies/infants in particular are killed; there's more Thalergy there to convert to Thanergy.

Increased cellular reproduction and multiplication = a higher Thanergy output when converted. They are directly related.

Here are the definitions as stated in the Glossary:

It's... a hole. Not in the magic system itself, but in Harrow's character, though I actually do believe this is very, very intentional and that it's probably not *just* Harrow who lacks this connective tissue.

The one topic we don't hear much about is the relationship between Thalergy and Thanergy. We know what they are individually and how they relate to one another, but we never see Thalergy in practice (Animancy); only Thanergy (Necromancy). It's to be expected though; all characters (aside from John, that we know of) hail from Thanergetic planets in a Thanergetic system, meaning everything is in active decay. The reason necromancers exist is directly due to Thanergy; it's the basis of the entire universe for these characters.

I can't blame them for not being able to fully grasp the concept of life energy when it's so scarce, and especially for a character like Harrow, who was the last born and the youngest of her house. She's never seen a baby. She's never witnessed a natural pregnancy either; of course she doesn't know what raw life energy looks like. Human reproduction is possibly the greatest source of Thalergy out there and even that is decaying. Between medical intervention and the increasingly clinical methods used to uphold the population, Thalergy in this form is dwindling.

We hear mention of 'Foetal Care Boxes' from Harrow's warped memories and Pyrrha's question to Camilla about Gravid Carry in the Sixth House. It's almost as if this source of Thalergy is being pushed to go so unnoticed that it's been nearly entirely disconnected from the population:

And y'know, if you think about it, John is a Thanergetic being who took the Thalergetic soul of a planet and preserved it rather than destroying it. Here, let him represent Death while Alecto would represent Life. There's no life without and death and no death without life, though if you kill one, the other dies as well. This balance is how Lyctorhood should have been, but he lied because it wasn't just a failsafe– it was insurance and collateral all wrapped into one.

It would make absolute sense why Thalergy; Animantic practice would be frowned upon, as seen here:

The fact that Thalergenic study has been made to be so foreign and so taboo is incredibly telling because if this was realized and accepted by all, it would bring the whole of Dominicus a huge step closer to learning of John's intentions to withhold power, knowledge, and understanding from them simply to protect himself and the truth of his actions.

It would bring his Lyctors a huge step closer to learning that the relationship between themselves and their Cavaliers ought to have been Thalergetic/Thanergetic, not Thanergetic/Thanergetic; that in having killed and eaten their Cavaliers' souls is a bastardization of the true Lyctor process and that they all could've lived in powerful, balanced harmony different than what John had them believe even when they did make the latter part of this connection.

The answer to Lyctorhood is right under everyone and yet they cannot see it because of how little exposure they get to the other half of the power they draw from and what they can see is written off so quickly as less important.

Life; Thalergy was locked away in a place designed to celebrate and embrace Death; Thanergy. It was hidden on purpose in a place so obvious nobody would think to look there.

It's all smoke and mirrors. Thanks, John.

I'm inclined to believe that what Harrow calls 'The Work' is really her mission to learn about Thalergy and how to actively use it. I'm also inclined to believe that this is how we un-revenant Kiriona as well as the Resurrection Beasts, but that's a post for another time.

[oh-jod-dammit]

“Can we get back to this blasted funeral,” said Mercy. “Sitting through six of these is worse than dying myself.”

Today in "SG thinks too much about tiny offhand mentions", which... which six funerals... That's too many for dead Lyctors and too few to include cavaliers, unless there were funerals for every cav and Mercy only went to one or two of them.

Like okay Cyth's here is the sixth, and before that we can assume Cyrus, Ulysses, and Cassiopeia, in that order. I can imagine Samael having had a funeral since his death was more "accidental" and "tragic" compared to other cavaliers? But that's a fairly likely candidate, not a guaranteed inclusion. It's... hard to imagine Anastasia getting one, given her body interred in the Tomb with Alecto... Did she have a funeral for Cristabel? (Was it a joint one with Alfred?) Did others not have any for their cavs or did Mercy just not go? Did John hold something when he buried Alecto, maybe?

And I'm reminded here of another line with numbers that fucking haunts me, when they're first taking Harrow and Ianthe through the River to the Mithraem.

“We are about to travel forty billion light years, to where we first ran … myself, and my remaining six. One of our number was dead already, and another had been removed from play. We needed somewhere to lick our wounds, somewhere far away from anything we loved, to wait—to disperse—without fear that the eyes turning upon us would plough straight through the Nine Houses as they went.”

Who the fuck... Removed from play makes it sound like maybe Samael was dead and Anastasia removed but that...... wouldn't leave six???

The RBs were named in order of discovery, with the exception that... John called Alecto "First" and "One" in the past but she's not Number One as the other Lyctors knew, so not counting her on the group discovery list (so she gets to be nine hehe). But with that, Cyrus died fighting Number Six, and Ulysses finished that one off, so Ulysses dying to Number Eight had to be after that. Cassiopeia died fighting Varun / Number Seven, and I do feel like it's strongly implied she died fairly recently but I could be way off, I guess she could be first. (I say all this like I don't theorize a lot of time fuckery but probably not to this degree outside the River at least. I do wonder if the common theory of Cassy faking her death isn't more like Cassy doing time fuckery shit within the River, but yeah, that's a whole tangent.)

Anyway regardless of the order all of those are really high numbers so like... Did they get attacked by no less than six RBs at once in that first attack, and that's when Cyrus died? But also Anastasia has a room on the Mithraem? She never used it! She didn't make it to the Mithraem. But it was built for her.

God what the fuck is the early timeline. Were there actually more or less disciples than we've been told. Is this some really fucked hint that Ulysses and Titania were never resurrected and were elaborate puppets the whole time. None of this would answer the original question of how many funerals.

Why are numbers so confusing... ;-;

[venusvhs]

maybe this is just me but it feels like a lot of people forget nona is somewhat disabled. she's an amnesiac in a body too small for her soul and she has the mental capacity of a child. it grates me seeing people talk about nona as if she genuinely has a pebble for a brain when in reality it can be attributed to her mental condition being disabling. and it's well known that she's remarkably gifted in several areas, so she's far from being stupid or unintelligent. she's so much more than "eats crayons and is silly" guys please

[afterthequake]

(not said in mean way, but) some of you forget that Harrow is 18 and gideon is 19 and they have no idea what normal, interpersonal relationships look like and much less romantic+sexual relationships. Them getting married (at this stage of their life) would be the worst outcome for their relationship. Hell, I think even dating each other would be very difficult bc of the trauma they've been through in the books but also bc of their past. They love each other but the only thing they've known is how to hate each other in the most emotionally hurtful way.

Gideon-Kiriona, in NtN, and presumably Harrow (wherever her soul was during NtN) only know pre HtN Harrow and Gideon. Even if they have the best intentions they'd need to spend a lot of time just to get to know each other's "new" selves.

Alecto swearing cavalier-hood to Harrow + Harrow loving her is it's own issue that needs unpacking.

[gingerisamenace]

Hairbrained Gideon the Ninth theory-

The bone construct trial from book one, yeah? What if it’s a test on transferring necromantic power?

I am pretty sure that it was G1deon and Pyrrha’s trial, and involved a Necromancer popping into their cavalier’s brain. Well, what is that trial was working on how to transfer necromantic power.

There’s already a pretty substantial theory that Pyrrha was the necro and G1deon the cav based on a few things- while his fucked up, buff, very non-necromantic body could be from not being born one or having been grown back from an arm, it could also be because he was never originally an adept. And while the lyctors are named for their cavs, ‘Duty’ doesn’t fit miss Pyrrha ‘run away and have a messy affair with the rebel leader’ Dve in the slightest.

Along with the possibility of them switching necromantic aptitude, Gideon describes a pretty funky experience during the trial. When Harrow was in her head, Gideon described seeing blurry balls of light, like the ones the necros can see, even though she’s not necromantic in the slightest. Harrow says that would be impossible, and I originally chalked it up to the fact that souls get all mixed up together when in close proximity.

My original thought was disproved later though, as we learned that non necro souls can never do necromancy, even in a necromancer’s body. This got me thinking about the first trial again.

Might be bull, but there’s been wilder tlt theories.

[fancyratlady]

Okay, so I do not remember if what I am about to say is confirmed later on, but this passage confused me deeply at first and what I have concluded is this:

1) By ‘dolls’ Mercymorn means that necromanticly altered cadavers to serve as surrogates for the baby.

2) By ‘emission’ she means John’s sperm

3) The green text indicates that Mercy saw Wake pregnant with Gideon but wrongly assumed it was unrelated

4) Mercy blames Wake for the implantations in the cadavers failing

5) Also, below the highlighted portion Mercy assumes that being pregnant with god’s child is what killed Wake, but the rest of our information indicates that she servived the birth and died during the fall to Drearbruh due to lack of oxygen.

I cannot for the life of me remember if the cadaver thing was ever confirmed, but it makes sense. I am rereading HTN right now so I will get to that soon, though. Fascinating rant from Mercy. I have more to say about it.

[rapselsstuff]

Tamsyn Muir be like in every new book I will answer like three of the open questions from the previous one but leave you with eighty-seven more and also an open chest wound