Iron Man (2020) #17

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Iron Man (2020) #17
can I just say I dont like NaShuri (namorxshuri) shippers. aside from the whole "he-killed-her-mom" thing, I didn't really see that kind of chemistry, the age gap ???? Feels a lil off putting to me. Plus ion like to think about how Tenoch and Letitia would look like tgth. Both are very hot, respectively, but just......no. no thank yew.
Also, Shuri look gay to me. Like look at that woman. that's a stud (or at least a stem). lets ignore the fact that I was overly obsessed with her at some point
not saying masculine-presenting or masculine-looking women can't be with men (not saying fem4fem cant be a thing either, dont jump 2 conclusions), cuz i dont mind the Attuma and Okoye ship but in my opinion ShuRiri felt like more natural than NaShuri in terms of a romantic ship, or even like a platonic one. Nashuri feels kinda forced idk , it has a very dark romantasy booktok-esque vibe that I don't mess with.
thas all. not tryna to be mean, its just how I see things yfm? And im not tryna fight nobody in the comments either, ty.
[huge longsuffering sigh] okay look I'll bite. this is not about shipping whatsoever, but about Shuri, and separately from the shipping discourse (and I am not trying to pick a fight with OP or directly addressing OP because OP is 18 years old but I have seen this type of rhetoric repeated a LOT online for the past 4 years) -- a lot of people have GOT to start working through their pre conceived perception that a woman with short hair wearing loose clothing = masculine or a stud.
We also need to remember that for about half this movie, Shuri is wearing or is given clothing for a specific purpose, not clothing she would have picked to comfortably reflect her own identity in any sort of way, and the clothing she DOES wear at home in Wakanda is a LOT different than the clothing she wears outside of it.
So first let's go through the costumes of this movie and see the things Shuri actually chooses to wear when she's at home, comfortable and her own self, in Wakanda. I'm gonna count up all the dresses and all the pants and see what we have at the end.
The first thing we see her in is an asymmetrically sleeved pencil dress with her long braids twisted into an updo! Ramonda's hair is worn long. This is right as we find out T'Challa is dead. This dress is her own choice: she isn't wearing it for any purpose other than working in her lab with the Design Team. Dress Tally: 1.
Her funeral attire is a beautiful long robe and dress. The one shot of the back of both she and her mother show us that both of them have cut or are wearing their natural hair short as a mourning tradition. This dress is traditional, and we know Shuri dislikes traditional wear and prefers more fashionable modern stuff. This does not count toward the Dress Tally.
We know they continue to do cut their hair for their whole period of mourning, which we know because a year after the funeral both of their hair is still being worn short.
I think this orange dress with the mesh lab coat is so cute by the way. Very 60s mod does futuristic. it's not as close-fitting as her previous lab dress from BP, but it carries over the silhouette and the white meshy aspect of the one she wore when T'Challa came to see her. Nice little callback. She misses her brother intensely and is still mourning him. Dress Tally: 2.
Next scene, she's changed her clothes to go on a little excursion with Ramonda. This scene is so dark I lightened it so you can see the costume, but she's wearing like a lime-yellow T shirt with a long skirt-like vest over it that matches a patterned pair of very loose, comfortable pants. Great for camping. Pants Tally: 1.
Her next costume is back in the lab, looking at Riri's vibranium-detecting machine. This is kind of a big blousy white windbreaker parka lab coat over a pair of shorts, which lets her squat down close to examine her project and climb all over it. The theme of her costumes seem to be loose and comfortable in the wake of her brother's death-- which to me is really symbolic of sort of rediscovering herself through style. Pants Tally: 2.
In America, she and Okoye wear these getups as undercover agents trying to get into MIT. Adidas, baby! Ruth E Carter has stated that they chose this muted gray-purple with some blue to evoke the royal colors of Wakanda but also the grief that's still very present in Shuri's mind, because this is a movie about grief and mostly done through Shuri's perspective. Shuri wears this outfit all the way up until she offers herself to Talokan in exchange for letting Riri live and is taken to the cenote. This is an outfit she's wearing specifically for a purpose outside Wakanda. Okoye would never have covered her head with makeup inside Wakanda and Shuri doesn't wear anything like this in Wakanda. This does not count for the Pants Tally.
The traditional dress of royalty that the Talokanil make specifically just for her to wear is gorgeous. But she can't wear that in the dive suit, so she changes into another equally elaborate outfit covered in embroidered bits and feathers and designs. Riri is also given a new set of clothes, which are both worn, again, in the dark and hard to see until Nakia mounts a rescue. Neither of these count as Dress or Pants Tally because these aren't clothes she chose for herself.
Once they are back in Wakanda, Riri and Shuri both wear the same grayish jumpsuit with the same belt, which suggest that this is maybe just a standard Design Team jumpsuit, or maybe it's emergency clothing kept for rescued, soaking wet people aboard the Royal Talon. Again, not clothes they likely picked out for themselves. Nakia is wearing a similar jumpsuit, but in a lighter color and with a different collar when she talks to Okoye. No Pants Tally!
These are worn through and to the end of the Talokanil attack on the Golden City, after which Shuri is once again in her funeral clothing for her mother. No Dress Tally.
After this, she is visibly mourning again and there's a lack of color in everything she wears. We first have a dark gray, plain ribbed dress with a high mock-turtleneck collar in her lab with sort of dull silver hand and wrist jewelry. As she works on synthesizing the herb, her clothes sometimes lose their darkness but not their monochromatic quality: she's in another interesting ribbed dress (boob triangles?) of a lighter gray for one shot, then back to a third dark dress with a crew neck and not a mock neck for her convo with Riri about Namor. She flips between these two darker dresses for most of the shots in the lab. Dress Tally: 5.
As she reveals the Blue Angels to Okoye, she's back in her white mesh again, echoing once again the old Shuri, in a long, flowing coat with a pair of white pants and a white sleeveless top beneath it. Pants Tally: 3.
When she takes the synthesized herb, she wears comfortable clothing for what she views as a medical procedure: sneakers, a ribbed sweater with lace-up details on the sleeves, and flared matching pants, again in dark gray. Pants Tally: 4.
When she finds herself in the ancestral plane, she is in a long, flowing, gauzy, feminine white gown. It is implied throughout both films that a person's appearance in the ancestral plane says something about their innate identity and who they are: Killmonger's cardigan evokes his body scarification, T'Challa and T'Chaka's clothing reflects their deeply held opinions about tradition and progress etc. Dress Tally: 6.
Her Panther habit is a really lovely, feminine, sharp take on the suit. I'm running out of images but you know what it looks like: the double gold and silver V on her chest and the lines around her ribs subtly emphasize her figure, it's a lot more decorated than T'Challa's and takes some inspiration from Killmonger's Jaguar habit with the gold, the silver dots evoke her mourning makeup. A lot of triangles, a lot of points. This doesn't really count as pants or a dress because it's a super-suit.
Anyway, she almost cooks Mermaid Man, doesn't, decides to own her grief, and then we're at the finale. Her main color from here on out is black, but it's paired with other colors: she wears a gold necklace. This long black dress with sandals she wears to plant the herb in the forest and give Riri her car back in one piece is really similar to T'Challa's silhouette. Dress Tally: 7.
And when she arrives in Haiti, she's wearing cutoff demin shorts and a black hoodie with elbow-length sleeves paired with white, black, and gold Adidas sneakers. She's undercover again, outside of Wakanda, and wearing clothing for a purpose: burning her mourning clothing at last and letting her mother and T'Challa go. Does not count toward Pants Tally.
Also her makeup is so cute here and look at that smile augh
Final Tally: Dresses/Skirts: 7, Pants: 4. And even if you DID count all the things I didn't into the total, the Dress Tally would be 10 and the Pants Tally would be 8. This is a woman-led film, and Ruth E. Carter has stated she wanted all the women to look feminine but comfortable and athletic as well. Being a person with sharper or stronger features that don't translate well to "feminine" Eurocentric standards of beauty doesn't mean you're masculine, and participating in a traditional mourning practice of your culture does not make you masculine.
In conclusion Shuri rocks
Princess Shuri's Name (Spoiler, not Udaku)
(An example of Shuri's fuller title never being with a last name, but instead her ancestor or ancestral, native land. This example in particular was also penned by an African writer.)
Just to clarify, "Shuri Udaku" is not actually Princess Shuri's name in the comics or MCU. I think it's important to know this not just for accuracy sakes and as a factoid (many actually believe this is her canon name when it is not), but to also respect the fact that Wakanda (an African nation) does not really have a traditional western-like naming system in neither the 616 comics (prime, original universe) or the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It is often mononymic names!
Shuri's name is Princess Shuri, daughter of Ramonda (or T'Chaka, but it appears to go by the ancestor of your shared gender — in Shuri's case, it's maternal)! It's much simpler to call her "Princess Shuri" or "Shuri" though 😅!
We have seen examples of their naming in the MCU:
And we have the 616 comics telling us it early on in. T'Challa's name is repeatedly said to be T'Challa, son of T'Chaka:
(Note: the first scan is T'Challa with a non-Wakandan — specifically, a South African. There is an intentional contrast with him not having a last name like Zanti!)
The "Udaku" surname specifically is only mentioned in a 2008 alternate reality where Shuri does not exist (the old Earth-1610), and T'Challa is actually the brother of M'Baku:
So yes. While this surname did exist in a "comic," it was never tethered or did it link back to Shuri. Instead, it was a different universe (Ultimates, which got boom boomed iirc, but that's another story for another day).
Shuri and Manifold come as a pair, do not seperate! (Happy late Valentines)!
Thank you to this man. Because I’m concerned about the 14k people who are confused about something that is literally explained in the film…
I honestly do not understand why some people insist that Riri was canonically "wearing Shuri's clothes" or the two "shared clothes." Well, no. 😭?
The orange two-pieces the two respectively wear are the prime citations, but they are completely different shades of orange. The necks, textures, and sleeves are completely different. Shuri wears a pencil skirt that stops above the knee while Riri wears long pants.
I'll try to chalk it up as ship goggles (it happens) and/or people not remembering the outfits but accidentally conflating them (to be fair: both do feature orange croptops after all) rather than disinformation.
But yeah... Besides the outfits visually not being the same, to me, it doesn't really add up that the two would "share" clothing.
Why would Shuri go into her own royal closet in the midst of anxiously preparing for war or rebuilding her nation to (needlessly) give Riri (who was not with her) some hand-me-downs?
If Shuri was not the one to personally do it, it has less plausibility. Why would attendants go into their princess's personal closet and take out her wear (likely of her own design, Shuri likes and does fashion) for a temporary American refugee?
They are at Wakanda. There is no shortage of resources. Shuri and Riri are not the same height nor even have the same body type. Logically, I'd think they just given Riri a brand new set of fitted clothes 😭.
It'd make much more sense to talk about how Riri now has some quality Wakanda fashion in her closet (Shuri may or may not have designed it, but that's a shot in the dark). That, or how Riri kind of-sort of takes on/mirrors Shuri's prior palette (Shuri wore a lot of orange before — usually red-orange like her BPWF croptop or a pure vibrant-light orange. Riri wears orange in the end and sometimes in the Ironheart series!).
On one hand, I think this could be the coding of Shuri "passing on the torch" and no longer being the youngest, smart-but-not-wise one in the room. Riri is now. Shuri, feeling kinship and empathy, looks after her:
That, or maybe it's me overthinking? It could be simply their selection of clothes and concidence. It's "just colors" (I don't know... The creatives are very intentional with color) and Riri only happened to wear orange. Namora also wears orange (but then, Namora also parallels Shuri in position as Talokan's princess/a head in charge).
Avengers: Doomsday Trailer: Talokanda Resource Sharing?
It looks like Talokan and Wakanda done some cultural-resource exchange (at least between their leaders: M'Baku (king of Wakanda), Shuri (Black Panther), and Namor (godking and protector of Wakanda)). It makes sense as they are allies now and will be facing a massive threat. However, I cannot decipher exactly why and what they do?
With M'Baku and Shuri, what stands out is what appears to be some blue jade kind of material. The way it is integrated and color is more in-line with Talokanil design than anything we know to be Wakandan. Could this be Talokan's version of vibranium?
On the other hand, Namor's staff is altered. It does not have jade or risen engravings. It is instead sleeker, with a blue glass gem-like material. This is not signature to Talokanil, but to Wakanda (particularly see Shuri's kimoyo earrings: see images below).
Something definitely is happening and has happened for them to do this. I won't lie, I am intrigued but also tad bit terrified.
Washington Woes
There is something so good but so painful about the Washington sibling tragedy.
In the comics, Riri, Natalie, and Xavier trio. As the best friends of Riri Williams, what brings them together is Riri. They do not really have an aforementioned relationship from what I know. Xavier knows who (or what) Natalie/N.A.T.A.L.I.E. is to Riri, and N.A.T.A.L.I.E. knows who Xavier is to Riri. They are bound to, and do, interact because of this.
It's relatively simple — not complicated.
Ironheart (2025) unlocked new layers, giving N.A.T.A.L.I.E. and Xavier more of a direct link to one another independent from Riri. With it, they also explored the ethical dilemmas and different reactions to A.I.
In other words, the Ironheart series decided to take a new knife, stab, and twist it in the gut. I say this in a positive way, really.
Natalie is now the sister of Xavier. Not only that, but she is his older sister (older sisters are often significant pillars of family).
So before Riri, narratively, there was Natalie and Xavier.
The Seeming Antithesis of Xavier and N.A.T.A.L.I.E.
As Lyric Ross says, N.A.T.A.L.I.E. mirrors the current climate of A.I. Today, there is an ongoing controversy on the concerns and benefits of A.I. For example, the complicated relationship between artists and A.I. (there are helpful things like art tools, but there are also troubling things like generated art), or the potential dangers of using A.I. to grieve.
Xavier and N.A.T.A.L.I.E. are, in a sense, antithetical to one another (at the same time, there is a little "two-sides-of-the-same-coin"ism*). There is something brilliant about having this friction between them. It is deep that Xavier is the character who was most put off by N.A.T.A.L.I.E.
If I were to just write Xavier and N.A.T.A.L.I.E.'s character out on paper then place them side by side, I'd immediately go, "oh no."
Passionate friction between Xavier and N.A.T.A.L.I.E was inevitable. Not only are practical opposites conceptually, but:
They stand for different things
Personal stakes and feelings are involved
What Art Thou Xavier?
Chinaka Hodge confirms that Xavier is the "old school musician" type of musician. He prefers analog to digital, which alone gives away his character philosophy – his mentality.
Analog is nostalgic, sporting a warmer tone and preserving natural nuances. Compared to digital (considered more convenient, technological, and clear), analog has a more "organic" sound, keeping human touch rather than weeding out the "imperfections."
Examples of analog mediums are vinyls (which we see in Xavier's room) and mix-tapes (what Xavier gifts to Riri). Xavier's music we hear in episode one is even "soulful" music.
The picture painted is clear: Xavier is an artist who especially loves authenticity and soul.
What Art Thou N.A.T.A.L.I.E.?
Then we have N.A.T.A.L.I.E., who is literally and metaphorically digital. She is a projective artificial intelligence bearing the likeness of a loved one. She is not dead. She is not alive either. Yet... She... lives?
N.A.T.A.L.I.E. herself seems to become quickly aware of what she truly is, but there are still moments where she forgets herself or unintentionally oversteps. Even she does not quite know how to grapple with the juxtaposition that is her existence.
She has characters (and us) questioning the definition of "real" or "alive." To the naked eye, she perfectly imitates so much of the real Natalie. This was something Ronnie and Riri both noted. It, in part, helped them embrace her. This very thing, these comparisons, were received by N.A.T.A.L.I.E.
Yet... She is not truly Natalie. She can not even interact with the real world without a medium. What N.A.T.A.L.I.E. really is, is a technological phenomenon. One that became something else — someone else.
In N.A.T.A.L.I.E.'s Perspective
She is a highly advanced AI who is not supposed to be (something Riri initially made amply clear), but is.
Nat is in a sense living, but not alive. She looks like Natalie, shares qualities with Natalie, has Natalie memories — but she isn't quite Natalie.
Even when she tries to be.
N.A.T.A.L.I.E is also shown to work by whim. She has autonomy and frequently rebels. She feels. Like a "real" person.
But again, she isn't quite a person. She isn't quite thee person.
As the real Natalie would want, N.A.T.A.L.I.E. wanted to see her little brother "Xa." Even when Riri warned her of the danger in this. If she responded badly at first and wanted her deleted, could you imagine Xavier?
The sad part is: you can tell Nat herself felt this. Hence why, when she took Xavier to Riri, she did not speak. Yet despite her better judgment, she couldn't fight it. N.A.T.A.L.I.E. saw an opening. She was overcome by the desire to speak with Xavier. The truth was bound to come out anyway. Rip off the bandaid, as it were. It ended up working with Ronnie, right?
N.A.T.A.L.I.E. was hopeful, only to get rejected and her existential crisis furthered.
Xavier was definitely the worst reaction. When he said to delete her, it was... Different from Riri's deletion.
He shut down. He was in disarray. He was horrified. He was disgusted.
With her.
Again: N.A.T.A.L.I.E. did not ask to be created, but is. She was not meant to be made or anything more than AI for Riri to use, but here she is now.
It is within N.A.T.A.L.I.E.'s code to have this personality, these memories, these feelings – this identity not truly her own. These two principles are constantly clashing one another, fighting for some sort of dominance. At one point, N.A.T.A.L.I.E. accepts her existence as A.I., but others, she acts as though she is really the real Natalie (which is greeted by harsh reality checks).
To suffer this constant oscillation of what you are versus what you have been conditioned to be... That is deeply confusing. That is deeply maddening.
In Xavier's Perspective
Let's pause for a second and set the scene for Xavier.
This dude was kidnapped by a flying suit and dropped off into a who-knows-where-yet junkyard. Before he could fully calm down from what he felt was almost a near death experience, he is met with a distraught Riri Williams. His usually emotionally walled best friend, his crush, teary-eyed and near defeated.
Afterward, he got overwhelmed by what sounded like and appeared to be Natalie only to soon come to realize he is staring at an Artifical Intelligence — an amalgamation of code, numbers, and projected memory.
His big sister, his beloved Natalie, is dead. She was gone. What he is looking at is not his sister or anything his sister consented to.
What really set him off was when he touched N.A.T.A.L.I.E. He saw Natalie, but nothing was there. It did not have her feeling. It does not have her touch or raw essence. N.A.T.A.L.I.E. is not organic or the original soul (something Xavier especially takes to heart, from his logic to why he keeps those worn out headphones to the type of music he does).
That is what was horrifying to him.
Earlier, we also see that Xavier himself still grieves Natalie (albeit healthier, compared to Riri). In a conversation with Riri, he says he wishes to talk to Natalie.
Be careful what you wish for.
It does not help that N.A.T.A.L.I.E. canonically has dark spots in what she remembers. She is projected from Riri's brain, so things Natalie experienced with him without Riri to witness, she may not have. But Xavier does. And Xavier cherishes those memories of Natalie just as much.
It also doesn't help that the person he was closest to and felt seen by created her. Riri did it on accident, but he did not know that. On top of that, Riri was poorly justifying N.A.T.A.L.I.E.'s existence to an already upset him (you can tell he was trying to remain cool) does not bode well.
It was tragedy all around.
Tolerance, Not Quite Acceptance
Xavier's headphones ultimately tells the story.
You see, Xavier keeps his old, worn-out headphones. He explains why to an unknowing Riri.
These are the only headphones we see him actually wear. These same headphones, he calls, "Natalie."
However, they break and "die" in episode 5. That is when he finally moves over to the newer, technologically savvy headphones Riri bought him.
He starts to open the headphones, but we never see him actually open them. We only see him fully open and read Riri's letter, which a part of it was about N.A.T.A.L.I.E. That part with a Captain quote, he admits, gotten to him. He also understood it to be about N.A.T.A.L.I.E.
Notice how, after this, he does not once wear headphones. Before, he was seen frequently wearing a pair. So he isn't clinging onto the "Natalie" headphones anymore, but he also has yet to visibly embrace the new pair.
This is a direct mirror to the story.
Xavier did calm down and come back a bit around after reading Riri's letter. In a way, Xavier is holding on to memory like Riri is. N.A.T.A.L.I.E. is memory.
However, he says he still was not ok with it.
(Author's note: Since I have seen people oddly misconstrue this and miss the point, I want to stress that they are speaking about the Artificial Intelligence version of N.A.T.A.L.I.E., not Natalie the person.).
Understandably, Xavier is still not alright with Riri's AI having the face and likeness of his sorely missed dead sister.
This goes double when you take into account two details:
1. Remember: Xavier is an artistic character who gravitates to what is real, soulful, and nostalgic. His way of coping with Natalie's death is by honoring and having the memory of her. He is big on touch. Obviously, it'd be hard for him to accept this digital, Artifical Intelligence rendition of his sister that is a holographical manifestation of specifically Riri's brain. One that, when touched, was nothing.
2. Unlike Riri, he did not yet have the opportunity to develop a relationship with her. Riri felt similar to how he felt in the beginning, but she had the chance to grow fond of N.A.T.A.L.I.E. Xavier did not.
We can tell this even by how, when N.A.T.A.L.I.E. looks in his direction and approaches, he stiffened before averting his gaze. He is still unsure about her.
Imagine being him, seeing the virtual ghost and select memories of your sister walking around like she is her.
Imagine being her, having what you percieve as your brother looking at you as though you are a ghost at best, impostor at worst.
It's confusing, it's frustrating, and it's scary.
This story is not over. Xavier is not ready yet, but the door is open for potential development. Will he embrace his new headphones?
This isn't even getting into Riri's deal with Mephisto, bringing back seemingly the real Natalie. Whoops!
A Million Outcomes, Nine Hundred and Ninety-Nine Ways It Goes Wrong
"'Cause it isn't going to end well, Ri." A heavy, prognostic statement spoken by Xavier.
There are many ways this could have gone wrong. And about all of them happened to a degree.
RESULT A: Riri becomes unhealthily attached to N.A.T.A.L.I.E.. Losing her would cause immense distress.
Riri would develop a dependence and become emotionally invested in N.A.T.A.L.I.E. Losing her would cause amplified distress, ripping more into an unhealed wound. Riri was already struggling with the loss of her loved Gary and Natalie, but at least then she thought them to be dead and irreversibly gone. This would force her on the road to acceptance.
With N.A.T.A.L.I.E., this is not the case. Since N.A.T.A.L.I.E. affords Riri with the idea that she could "bring back" someone, Riri would behave more desperately. Riri would behave more recklessly. None of this is a good addition to Riri, an already ambitious, stubborn, and reckless character.
And what do you know, the devil in a suit comes to Riri, preying on this. It is what had her shake hands with him, even after knowing and initially resisting.
RESULT B: Riri's natural grieving process being hindered by N.A.T.A.L.I.E.
N.A.T.A.L.I.E. creates an illusion of continued presence, which is not good for Riri, who already suppresses and has an avoidance coping mechanism. She can not move forward when she stuck both of them back in time.
She can play pretend and cope with N.A.T. At least, for a little while.
RESULT C: Natalie's memory could be distorted or misrepresented.
N.A.T.A.L.I.E. is not Natalie. She is a projection of Riri's brain (already not the most reliable source). Part of N.A.T.A.L.I.E. is to serve as an AI (their relationship and power dynamic) — not just her be her own independent person and Riri's friend.
RESULT D: Riri becoming disillusioned by N.A.T.A.L.I.E.
There are plenty of things that can and to some degree, had happened that shatters the "fantasy." Maybe N.A.T.A.L.I.E. malfunctions. Maybe N.A.T.A.L.I.E. cannot touch. Maybe N.A.T.A.L.I.E. does not remember what she ought to had she be Natalie. Maybe N.A.T.A.L.I.E glitches.
RESULT E: N.A.T.A.L.I.E. becomes delusional
N.A.T.A.L.I.E. would begin thinking she is alive and perhaps even really N.A.T.A.L.I.E., because that is what she is learning. That is the delusion being built by validations and engagements. When this is contradicted, cognitive dissonance follows. Cognitive dissonance births emotional distress and impaired decision-making. N.A.T.A.L.I.E. will hurt and unintentionally hurt others around her. We've seen hints of this already in the series. N.A.T.A.L.I.E. froze, experiencing PTSD, while Riri was in immediate danger (held at gunpoint).
It's just tragedy. Beautifully written, deliciously painful tragedy.
Namor And Shuri is Not "Romanticized Abuse"
Namor with Shuri is objectively not "romanticized abuse" for two simple facts.
1. they did not have a personal, domestic relationship violence between them.
2. it was under the flag of war (impersonal). It was politics.
While we are at it, this is what the creatives said about their scenes in Talokan! No "manipulation" or "using" Shuri here as claimed. I recommend consulting the actual creators (credible firsthand sources) who know what the hell they are talking about instead of an opinionated fan article.
If you call Namor Shuri's "abuser" or deem shipping them "romanticized abuse," you don't know what abuse is. You are not only being disingenous, but misunderstanding-weaponizing terms and taking away the gravity of them. All over shipping.
Namor did not "abuse" Shuri or is her "abuser," but his actions did hurt Shuri. Regardless if he meant it personally or not. Regardless of his "reasons" or it being war, he still was wrong and caused mass destruction resulting in too much casualties. He also should atone. That is a point worth discussing.
Rather than, you know — spreading harmful misinformation or misconstruing what abuse is and shitting on the narrative of Wakanda Forever (because you don't like a ship or want anyone else to like it)... You can just be normal and say you don't like the ship because of valid reasons such as he killed her mom and waged war against her nation (for starters).
More about Namor's character you people love to butcher (yet you claim to love and have "media literacy"):
It makes me sick to my stomach how far some of you guys would go and how toxic/self-righteous you behave over shipping.
Yancy Street, between Broome and Grand.
Favs
Avengers: Doomsday dir. Joe Russo, Anthony Russo | 2026
Re: Namor x Shuri working from a storytelling standpoint
I stumbled on a post trying to give an analysis of how Namor and Shuri "don't work" from a storytelling standpoint. After reading several of the objectionable points made and realizing I've seen them all before, I felt like trying my own hand to exemplify why these kinds of criticisms against "Nashuri" don't actually work. I didn't directly reblog to avoid being convoluted or dogpiling, but I'll be responding to specific points throughout.
Direct quotes are in orange
Linked sources and further information are in green
Warning: This article has many layers, musings, and points. After all, it's essentially a master collection of material. If you just want to jump to a certain point, you can. There are subtitles for every point.
The Oxymoron of Improbable and "Non-Sensical" Story Writing
In the context of specifically Wakanda Forever's story and nothing else, yes: as of now, Namor and Shuri being a romantic couple does not make "sense."
However, there is no such thing as a ship that doesn't make sense from a story-writing perspective.
With your pen, reality can be shaped according to your whim, or elements can be bent to fit the mold of a given reality. Story-writing-wise, anything can happen, and anything can work with the proper execution. A good writer knows how to suspend the reader's disbelief and make the seemingly improbable, seem probable.
I don't normally wade into this type of thing, (in fact Tumblr recommended this post to me like a dozen times before I finally read it) but I have to say, I love a well written argument, that cites sources to support said argument, especially outside of the original media in question. And doubly so when the cited supporting sources are direct quotes from the creators and architects of said media in question. It speaks to intention vs execution.
Shipping is not important. At all.
Well intentioned, well executed character and story is very important. Imperfect media is usually the result, despite intention, because there is no such thing as perfection. But here I find the intention closely matches the execution and the resultant film is, IMO, near-perfect. And that's a testament to Coogler and the skilled creators/artisans he had help him build this world and shape these characters with very specific intention. When people argue about things like "shipping" it seems to me that they often forgo a good faith argument based on something you can reasonably prove, and just go with feelings and perceptions. Which is fine. But let's call a thing a thing.
From this argument, made with supporting evidence cited from such credible sources of information, one thing makes a little more sense than several others. And I feel it's important to acknowledge that.
Sorry, had to nerd out all over this post. This is just a good argument.
Re: Namor x Shuri working from a storytelling standpoint
I stumbled on a post trying to give an analysis of how Namor and Shuri "don't work" from a storytelling standpoint. After reading several of the objectionable points made and realizing I've seen them all before, I felt like trying my own hand to exemplify why these kinds of criticisms against "Nashuri" don't actually work. I didn't directly reblog to avoid being convoluted or dogpiling, but I'll be responding to specific points throughout.
Direct quotes are in orange
Linked sources and further information are in green
Warning: This article has many layers, musings, and points. After all, it's essentially a master collection of material. If you just want to jump to a certain point, you can. There are subtitles for every point.
The Oxymoron of Improbable and "Non-Sensical" Story Writing
In the context of specifically Wakanda Forever's story and nothing else, yes: as of now, Namor and Shuri being a romantic couple does not make "sense."
However, there is no such thing as a ship that doesn't make sense from a story-writing perspective.
With your pen, reality can be shaped according to your whim, or elements can be bent to fit the mold of a given reality. Story-writing-wise, anything can happen, and anything can work with the proper execution. A good writer knows how to suspend the reader's disbelief and make the seemingly improbable, seem probable.
I don't normally wade into this type of thing, (in fact Tumblr recommended this post to me like a dozen times before I finally read it) but I have to say, I love a well written argument, that cites sources to support said argument, especially outside of the original media in question. And doubly so when the cited supporting sources are direct quotes from the creators and architects of said media in question. It speaks to intention vs execution.
Shipping is not important. At all.
Well intentioned, well executed character and story is very important. Imperfect media is usually the result, despite intention, because there is no such thing as perfection. But here I find the intention closely matches the execution and the resultant film is, IMO, near-perfect. And that's a testament to Coogler and the skilled creators/artisans he had help him build this world and shape these characters with very specific intention. When people argue about things like "shipping" it seems to me that they often forgo a good faith argument based on something you can reasonably prove, and just go with feelings and perceptions. Which is fine. But let's call a thing a thing.
From this argument, made with supporting evidence cited from such credible sources of information, one thing makes a little more sense than several others. And I feel it's important to acknowledge that.
Sorry, had to nerd out all over this post. This is just a good argument.
Re: Namor x Shuri working from a storytelling standpoint
I stumbled on a post trying to give an analysis of how Namor and Shuri "don't work" from a storytelling standpoint. After reading several of the objectionable points made and realizing I've seen them all before, I felt like trying my own hand to exemplify why these kinds of criticisms against "Nashuri" don't actually work. I didn't directly reblog to avoid being convoluted or dogpiling, but I'll be responding to specific points throughout.
Direct quotes are in orange
Linked sources and further information are in green
Warning: This article has many layers, musings, and points. After all, it's essentially a master collection of material. If you just want to jump to a certain point, you can. There are subtitles for every point.
The Oxymoron of Improbable and "Non-Sensical" Story Writing
In the context of specifically Wakanda Forever's story and nothing else, yes: as of now, Namor and Shuri being a romantic couple does not make "sense."
However, there is no such thing as a ship that doesn't make sense from a story-writing perspective.
With your pen, reality can be shaped according to your whim, or elements can be bent to fit the mold of a given reality. Story-writing-wise, anything can happen, and anything can work with the proper execution. A good writer knows how to suspend the reader's disbelief and make the seemingly improbable, seem probable.
This is relevant again 🥰!
If you don't want shippers to interact with you, how about you don't tag your post hating on their ship as their ship? Just a thought.