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@teamfreewilldeservedbetter
dean saying "i think that the dean and sam story sucks. it is not fun, it's not entertaining, it is a river of crap that would send most people howling to the nuthouse. so you listen to me, their pain is not for your amusement."
i know kripke said his ending would have been worse than 15x20 but he got it. he understood that dean didn't want to live like this. he just wanted to be a person and not a performance, even if he didn't know how to do that. kripke did give him a chance at that after s5 but...dean died with an audience. dean never got out.
Spn as John Mulaney
Dean:
Cas:
Sam:
Jack @ Sam:
Lucifer:
Chuck:
John:
Any of the Ghostfacers:
Adam:
The Winchesters:
You know, the more I remember of Dean and Jack's GOOD moments the more furious I am about the whole Moriah thing and the "Jack's not family" bullshit in season 15. I'm gonna go ahead and file that under the writers sucking because Dean Winchester would not say that. He just wouldn't.
Like. Dean was awful to Jack in the beginning, I'm not disputing that. He didn't see Jack as family and he didn't love him and, frankly, Jensen Original Dean Kinnie Ackles was right when he said that at first, all Dean saw when he looked at Jack was Lucifer. Lucifer, and the losses he suffered the night Jack was born. And he caused Jack harm during that time! That is completely true. His behavior toward Jack forms and influences a LOT of Jack's insecurities about whether he can be good and his fear that all he does is hurt people.
But Dean changed. His view of Jack changed, their dynamic changed, and Dean MANY times was the one comforting and reassuring Jack after that point, being honest about his own fears and shortcomings with Jack to help him understand that his feelings are normal and okay. And you CANNOT tell me that wasn't Dean knowing he had a lot to make up for and had done a lot of harm to Jack that he needed to at least try to undo.
And after seeing that you will NEVER make me believe a well-written, in-character Dean would do the kind of heel turn he did at the end of season 14 and into season 15 with regards to Jack. Dean would not be able to call someone his child, love them and take care of them and bond with them, feel responsible for and to them--all of which Dean clearly did with Jack--and then take it all back, be fine with sacrificing them, or even contemplate killing them.
Like, I know Dean and Sam are a special dynamic but they're also a blueprint for how Dean acts as a father. Yeah, Dean is the guy with anger issues for whom violence is frighteningly normalized. But Dean is also the guy who would let the world burn if it meant saving his kid, would happily destroy himself for his kid, and would forgive ANYTHING for family in general. So regardless of how their relationship started, once Jack became family the fact that he's dangerous would always matter less to Dean than the fact that he's Dean's child, based on ALL of Dean's prior characterization in the show.
If they HAD to do the Mary dying because of Jack thing (and I HATE that they brought Mary back and gave her such interesting characterization just to make her the Martyred Saint AGAIN), Dean should have been conflicted and fucked up as all hell about what to do about Jack. He shouldn't have jumped right to hurting or killing him as a solution. He should have been some version of the mess we saw in seasons 2-5, when he was worried about the darkness he saw growing in Sam. Or in season 6, when he knew Cas was going down a dangerous path but still clearly cared about him.
Again, I know the dynamic there is slightly different but Dean IS still the guy who would forgive family for just about anything, go to ANY lengths to get them back and save them, no matter the cost. We've seen it with Sam, with John, with Cas, with Mary. With Bobby and Charlie. And need I remind anyone, when Cas went dark he attacked Sam. Cas's actions in season 6 led to Bobby's death. So no, even family hurting family doesn't break Dean of this tendency to try and save family no matter what.
Nor is time a factor. By the time Cas's betrayal was revealed in season 6, Dean had known Cas a little less than four years total, one of which they spent completely away from each other. Once Dean decides he loves someone, that takes precedence over everything else.
Hell, even with Claire, and I know we talk about Claire being Dean's daughter but she isn't really. She's Jody's daughter, Dean has probably spent less than 2 weeks around her all told, but she's still family and Dean still went above and beyond to save her rather than kill her when she was becoming a werewolf with no control.
So to suggest Dean would ever just write Jack, his son who he lived with and saw every day, who he grieved for, who he soothed after nightmares, who he loved, off as a monster and not even try to save him? That Jack would become no longer family just like that? That Dean would ever be okay with sacrificing him? Utter bullshit. Whoever wrote that garbage doesn't understand Dean at ALL.
And listen, I'm someone who believes most cries of OOC are really just people not enjoying changes in the character over time, but this is a character with over a decade of development solidly stating the same thing over and over regarding how he feels about and acts with family, followed by sudden actions that directly contradict all previous characterization without adequate explanation for the change. And it's SO frustrating.
I 100% agree. I have only have one thing to add. Maybe that OOC behavior is chuck's writing.
JUST remembered that bobby’s wife was also killed by a demon but he was like. normal about it. he never got his revenge or anything just sort of moved on and like went on to help people
You know, moving on, being healthy about dealing with stuff, raising two boys being heroes, huh
I feel the need to remind everyone that Bobby had to kill his wife and he literally had no one else left after Karen died and his logical choice should have been to go for revenge because he had nothing to lose but NO!!!!! Instead he decided to help other people like him so that no one else would have to go through the same thing. And when he met John Winchester, the man who abandoned his children because he only cared about revenge, he did everything he could to protect those two boys and raised them as his own sons because he cared.
this is so inconsequential but you’re telling me they wrote in the script they paid for a doggy daycare instead of just oh hmmmm i don’t know inserting an off handed “you sure the dog’s okay?” “yes, dean, [eileen or jody and the girls or dealer’s choice of name] loves animals, it’ll be fine.” thereby acknowledging literally ANY other character in the arc of the show.
part of the reason the spn finale is so sickening is because it’s so suddenly christian like “and then the heroes who had been fighting against god and the systems he enforced died and went to heaven the end 🥰” WHAT
@pinkfloydguy NO LITERALLY also they spent entire seasons. SEASONS of this show being like “god isn’t listening god is absent god isn’t doing anything” and then from 14.20 onward it’s “actually god IS listening BUT! HE’S EVILLL (so it’s BAD compared to him not listening)” so then by the end when Jack is god and he can literally say “I am not going to interfere or listen and I am going to be absent and hands off” that is packaged as a good thing. Somehow this is packaged as a reward. HARD left turn to make the existence of god a good thing
like with god the only real options are god cares or god doesnt care. They established that god not caring was a bad thing (for our characters) early on but then theh established that god caring was also bad? So the natural conclusion to this would be that a god figure, in the supernatural universe, is bad and should be destroyed. But noooo we need god we need to adhere to christian theology for some goddamn reason
Supernatural 13.22 Exodus
Some Garth love for @klinejack‘s birthday ✨ Happy birthday Divvy! 💖
Hi I just received revelation. So when Jensen said Dean doesn’t know if angels can feel love in that way, perhaps the reason Dean would think that was because of Anna?? Who he slept with as a human, and specifically did so because as she put it, she wouldn’t be able to feel that desire as an angel??
HELLO.
“You mean too much to me. To everything.”
Being a spn fan in 2021
the fact that angels kept learning love and compassion and care for humans over and over again only to get it lobotomized out of them... truly an interesting story that was never followed up on
pov: you are thee christian god and your little army of tin soldiers keeps turning themselves human
this relationship is important to me.
anyways point being if I knew a man like dean in real life I would affectionately clap him on the shoulder and go buddy you have some issues to work through. and I would mean it
Castiel Character Development in Two Gifs
This is so important.
“I had myself.”
Think of what it means for Castiel to FINALLY know this.
And then to pass it down to his son.