The issue with trying to discuss when Shonen gets misogynistic is that the overwhelming majority of Shonen fans believe that that is simply a harmless quirk of the genre.
See also: when Shonen gets racist.

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@transfemhiyuki
The issue with trying to discuss when Shonen gets misogynistic is that the overwhelming majority of Shonen fans believe that that is simply a harmless quirk of the genre.
See also: when Shonen gets racist.
Genuinely surprised to see this from Jamie p and super glad as well. I feel like it's become such a pattern of seeing white queer creators casually say some racist shit or something to come out and then never properly apologize.
So seeing Jamie Paige be outright "No fuck y'all stupid racist white teens, she'd rather stop making music catering to you than let you make a fool of her art" is incredibly refreshing and makes me glad that to be a fan of hers and feel both seen and comfortably safe knowing that for once someone has the decency not to be a racist piece of shit!
Also go listen to Slayr right now! I remember hearing a couple of his songs before, and liking all of them, and this one is no different. Honestly I hope we get to see more hip-hop sampling and remixes of vocaloid music because its so so cool and wish it was done more often.
And hey this is also directed at all you fuck ass "rap is overstimulating" idiots on Tumblr too!
Something else I think is important to add to this post as well :]
A bit more self explanatory, but I'm glad he's confident to state it for the people in the back that Vocaloid isn't just a white people thing. It's a bit bittersweet to me in a sense that a lot of black creators online feel the need to hide themselves, but I definitely understand (I'm guilty of this sometime too the way Tumblr acts sometimes) but I'm glad to see that people are being more openly anti racist for once and I hope this trend doesn't stop.
Also I know it's already his most popular song, but it is such a banger too, go listen to this and the rest of his vocaloid music too!
Important addition requested by prev
>post by a person of color giving insightful commentary on racism
>opens notes
The manga that trusted too little.
One thing I really used to praise Kagurabachi on was its visual identity. This included Hokazono's gorgeous artwork and dynamic posing, but more than that, it included his capability for subtlety.
This is a capability that I have strongly felt was missing from recent chapters.
I think Transfem Hakuri might be the only queer headcanon I have that I do not want to ever be canon because I fear what Hokazono would do if he realized that she's a woman
(Not So) Quick Thoughts on Kagurabachi's Pacing
Been pretty sleep-deprived lately so it took me a while to find the right words. I think this is the distillation of all the yapping I've done, though.
There's 3 things that are going on that make this arc a bit of a let-down to me, same as the Assault on Kamunabi HQ Arc before it:
There's been a subtle shift over time in terms of narrative priorities. Rather than having action scenes service the plot, the plot now exists to justify action scenes.
The cast has expanded (bloated, really) in size since the early arcs and characters are not being used properly.
Action movie story-telling pacing falls short when applied to a long-running manga series; it ignores the strength of the medium and makes the story feel hollow the longer it goes on.
Mostly unstructured ramble with the reasoning not already laid out in the chapter 126 and 127 posts below the cut.
Chapter 127 Friendly Spy Posting
Certainly one of the Kagurabachi chapters of all time.
Editor's Notes First Page: 現れた不穏... [arawareta fuon...] "An unsettling presence emerges..." Last Page: すば流、臨戦。[subaru, rinsen.] "Subaru, ready for battle."
The chapter was possibly shorter than usual this week -15 pages instead of the usual 19- so that the four dropped pages could be used for the volume 12 advertisement that was included in the JP version. I don't know if having the extra time would have helped with the pacing, though.
'Scuse Me, But Who the Hell Are You?
Feels contrived, but sure, we'll roll with it. Kunishige has even more reasons to be better than his bum of a dad. Cool. It also adds another layer of context to this page from chapter 1. Neat.
Shiba being a meddlesome little so-and-so is really cute, not gonna lie. I wish there was a bit more to his character than being Kunishige's guard dog though. And that we got to see Azami at all if he's supposed to be just as good of a friend as the other three. Why do they feel that way about each other? Being childhood friends because they're close because they're childhood friends because they're close because they're childhood friends because...? Is that all? Surely not. It better not be all we get.
At any rate...
Consider: change "Chaki" to "Chihiro" and show Hakuri's back instead of Kunishige's and ask if there are any significant differences... [shot]
Kunishige is another character that needs a hug and experience with unconditional love to help him value himself. He's willing to shoulder the burden the government thinks he's not up to par for though- and we know he's going to succeed. So all that's left to wait for is Subaru's fight with the Masumi to end... before it even begins.
A Rant (skip to get to TL notes)
Alright.
Honestly, I don't have many positive things to say about this chapter. It amplifies the "checking off objectives from the list" vibes that have been lurking in the background of this whole arc so far.
Unlike the first three tightly controlled arcs -Vs. Sojo, Rakuzaichi, Sword Bearer Assassination- we are kind of stumbling through this backstory to squeeze in all the cool fight ideas Hokazono had.
Guy shows up outta nowhere to hurt Chiaki and motivate Kunishige, give us more insight into why he is the way he is
Shiba is there because someone needs to deal with the guy and neither Kuni nor Chiaki are fighters
Jump back to the present to contrive a fight scene because we've gone a few chapters without one
It's for Subaru so we know why Kunishige was confident in giving him one of the nukes
I just don't know why I should particularly care about these developments when I don't have a sense of what the chapter is building towards beyond the next fight. It doesn't feel like there's a core story theme to iterate on so we are just jumping from one scene to another. Nor are we adding meaningful depth or growth for anyone's character. I will not say many positive things about JJK's overall writing quality, but Hidden Inventory Arc this is not. It's not even on the quality of a Kakashi flashback.
What is the message of this arc supposed to be, anyway?
It's not about examining the plight of child soldiers and how they are recruited. Nor is it about the consequences of how women are seen and treated in highly patriarchial societies. There is nothing here so far that is iterating on legacy or fatherhood, or the cycle of revenge in detail like we got in all the previous arcs.
We're learning the why of the present, yes- we now know that this series exists is due to a millennia-long grudge whose origins are almost entirely lost to time. It definitely helps paint a picture of the futility of chasing revenge for past wrongs. But it's not the central focus.
After a little bit of time with Shiba and Mashiro to set the scene, we are jumping around with long chapters devoted to the intricate details of steel making and how to safely incorporate Datenseki. Then introducing the Mikaboshi through a four chapter fight. Followed by a lot of hemming and hawing over appeasement vs. taking riskier action. A few glimpses into the Soga clan's internal dynamics. Back to forging steel and using Datenseki. Now it's time to show off Subaru's skill with the blade in more detail through conflict with a pre-war Masumi squad... after getting the briefest of summaries about how Kunishige grew up and why he fell in love with Chiaki.
What the hell are we doing?!
This arc is supposed to be the origin story for the whole series, where all the themes in the present emerged from. Why are we spending so much time in the weeds on technical fluff and not building up the characters involved? Why are we not establishing and exploring the relationships that changed due to the war- especially between Kunishige and Akemura and Chiaki and Kunishige? You know, the whole root of Chihiro's current predicament?
Even though I like the characters, I don't know enough about them to get invested in them. It's due to same problem I harped on last week: there's just not enough character development in this series. We only take a look at who they are in service of the story- not how they grow over time, nor who they are outside of the narrow confines of the plot. Thus I have no reason to really tune in for these conflicts outside of the centrepiece action shot that Hokazono had in mind. A series of plot events without examining the people affected by them is just a summary of key developments from SparkNotes.
The point is, with no tight focus on a core theme and insufficient time spent on getting everyone's personal stake in all this, the Seitei War Arc is repeating the same mistakes of the Kamunabi Invasion Arc before it:
Introducing more one-off characters who primarily exist for a fight scene rather than enhancing the story
Not enough time spent developing characters we already have
Skimming over the important emotional beats to get to the action scenes
No sense of focus on examining the core themes while excessive time is spent on extraneous details
There's always hope things will change, that he'll get and listen to feedback that the action movie influences need to be dialed back a bit to add more manga influences back in. It's also his first-ever serialisation, so of course it's rough now that he's left behind the short arcs he was good at. Yup, there's always hope... there's always hope...
I swear I still like the series! I'm just having a bad time right now with the author's priorities not matching what's needed to make an engaging long-term manga story (in my humble and extremely non-authoritative opinion)!
Minor TL Notes
Kudari [下り] means something along the lines of "descent", "down-slope", "down-going". Entering the final stretch, basically.
The nameless Masumi person who showed up at the conference and this chapter is a guy with 99.9% certainty. He uses 俺たち [ore-tachi] to refer to himself and the group sent to stop the smithing process.
Hazumi is not a new character or a correction; it's supposed to be Shiba's former boss Hasumi.
Sorry for the downer entries after the hiatus. I'm just not gonna be dishonest with these brain dumps and pretend everything is k. See you next week before the Obon break, dear void.
Chapter thoughts!!
PLEASE DON'T JUMP ME. I PERSONALLY DID NOT LOVE THIS ONE
Let's start on a positive though. I thought the last panel of Kunishige and Chiaki was really sweet.
I loved the little Shiba and Azami faces. They look so funny.
I always enjoy seeing Chiaki!!
What I didn't like... sigh. I don't love that yet another woman is just dying. I don't like that it seems like these women just complete their bit of the plot and then die to get out of the way. I don't want to argue about it or anything that's just... how it personally feels to me.
I'm on the fence about Chiaki cooking for Kunishige. On the one hand, I LOVE how food in Kgrb is this thing of comfort and bonding, and that ties into that. But on the other hand I just dislike the kind of... her coming in and fixing up his life? I guess? I don't know. I don't know!!
Honestly, I think I would have liked this chapter in a vacuum, if it weren't for... you know. All the other women who just died. Some of them named. Some of them not.
Kunishige's injury mirroring Chihiro's scar was a great touch.
Simbay pointed this out on twitter - what if Chiaki isn't dead in the present, but left? Because of his own history, Kunishige probably would have been okay with that, if it was what she had to do. So I have hope that she's still alive.
Again please don't kill me these are just my personal gut reactions to the chapter!!
Another thing: A couple of people have pointed out that in Kgrb, the women don't get to recover from abuse the way men do and I think that is the main reason I didn't super enjoy the chapter. It makes me worry that Chiaki will just be another one who doesn't get to survive it as well D:
i think the events of this chapter would hit harder if we stretched this out to two chapters
first chapter more show-less-tell of kunishige's upbringing, ending with mom's [spoiler]
then next chapter three years have passed, chiaki pov wondering where he is and ending how this one did, more from shiba and azami as well
Chapter 126 Resumption Posting
Hokazono is back to the business of breaking hearts, dear void.
Editor's Notes: First Page: お待たせしました。今号より連載再開です!! [omataseshimashita. kongou yori rensai seikaidesu!!] Thank you for waiting. Serialisaion now resumes!! First Page Reminder: 千晃を救うため、製鉄に挑む国重。その赤き瞳に秘めたるはー [chiaki o sukuu tame, seitetsu ni idomu kunishige. sono akaki hitomi ni himetaru ha-] Kunishige takes on the challenge of steelmaking to save Chiaki. What lies hidden within those crimson eyes... Last Page: 閉ざした心の差す一滴の灯ー [tozashita kokoro ni kisu itteki no hikari...] A single glimmer of light shines through a closed-off heart...
"The way to a man's heart..."
We are also back with the food metaphor that was so prevalent in the first two arcs!
A broken home represented by a broken plate and food thrown on the ground. Kunishige starting to heal represented by him getting to eat the home-made food Chiaki prepared for him. Simple as!
I was a little worried that we wouldn't get to see why Kunishige fell in love with Chiaki so I'm glad we got this little scene between them. Treating Kunishige like he's a normal friend she wanted to keep around was so important to him! No dramatic anime-style declarations of friendship or promises of staying together forever here. She just says she likes having him in her life and proves it by cooking for him. Once we get Chiaki's perspective (we will get that, right?!), I'll be satisfied.
This also solidifies Chiaki as the "heart" of the group. Where Shiba and Azami wavered, she decided enough was enough and reached out. Without her, Kunishige would have almost certainly drifted away from their little group of misfits and lived a lonely life. Male friends will dither and say "maybe he'll be alright if I don't bother him" when their friend's in a deep, dark place. Female friends with actually go and check.
Reductive and stereotypical, not something I'm really excited to see here, but we needed to get Kunishige and Chiaki alone together somehow I guess. And we can't have the men be emotionally intelligent because that would be unmanly or something. ...That's pretty uncharitable of me, but it's how I'm feeling right now.
At least we now know why Kunishige is the way he is, more or less. He doesn't know how to take care of himself and doesn't feel he's worth the effort anyway. It's not until Chiaki gives him some casual reassurance that he's wanted that he starts to think he's allowed to be in her life, poor guy. And apparently he couldn't even get a kind mentor.
Chapter 114
He really needed a bit of kindness in his life. If Chiaki was the only person he could get that from, it's no wonder he fell for her.
And then...
It hurts extra deep knowing that Kunishige deliberately tried to flip the script with Chihiro. He was kind, gentle, patient- everything he didn't have in his own childhood. Protecting Chihiro from the violent life he knew was probably the number one thing to him. So Chihiro setting out to avenge his dad in the bloodiest way possible- his kid who had been raised only with love choosing violence and murder out of grief- well, Kunishige would probably weep with pain. I'm certainly deep in the feels right now just thinking about it.
Chapter 3
It seems like Chihiro really inherited the best parts of Kunishige and Chiaki. The eyes that let him see things no one else can, the ability to cook and provide comfort. I really get the sense that Chiaki and Kunishige wanted Chihiro's life to be better than theirs were- he was so, so cherished. He was truly meant to be a gentle soul living a peaceful, ordinary life. Ouch.
The Elephant in the Room
So... about those first six pages... and Chiaki's role in all this...
I've got strongly mixed feelings on this chapter.
On the one hand, Kunishige's story landed as intended on the first reading. Some parts of it resonated with my own experience so strongly that it was basically guaranteed to. That's a reasonably realistic depiction of abuse, alright- especially how the victim can use the same vices to abuse their own victim. Cycles of abuse and Kagurabachi: an iconic duo.
Chiaki being a great friend first and foremost is also very sweet. She's the exact kind of person Kunishige needed in his life- someone down-to-earth and prone to dead-pan sarcasm rather than gushy emotions. And yet completely honest with what she's thinking and feeling so there's no guesswork involved. Even if they hadn't fallen in love, they would have been thick as thieves. It's a very wholesome relationship!
However, this chapter only really works in a vacuum. TL;DR:
Characters in Kagurabachi are static and disposable so we never see them in new contexts once their purpose in the story is done -> most of the girls and women are used as sob story fodder or objects to rescue in service of a man's story -> overstuffed fridge
These types of topics are very heavy and deeply affect the character involved; we should be doing more than saying "here's where they started and here's where they are now". It should be more than a basic motivation behind their actions servicing the plot. It's a reasonable way to deliver the story if we come back to it to sit with the character and their feelings for a while... but we don't.
Kunishige's matter-of-fact narration about his horrible childhood tracks with other abuse victims so far, namely Hakuri. They're very stoic and sparse on the details about it all. And once it's told, we never revisit either. So we are meant to swallow a hard lump of emotion then keep going just like they did.
Even if it works as efficient story-telling, I don't think this is effective for a serial manga series. The action movie pacing of giving just the bare minimum before moving on is a detriment to Kagurabachi at this point.
This is a serial that's been going on for years now, but we still scarcely know the main characters. We're starved for all kinds of information about them, even basic things like hobbies and how they act outside of tense plot scenarios. We don't get to sit with them and get in their heads nearly as much as a normal manga series would allow.
I'll compare it to two other actively running action manga in WSJ to prove the point, plus a bonus one with similar efficient story-telling.
This is a bit of an apples vs. oranges scenario, yes. UEK's much more light-hearted than Kagurabachi is- it's all about "friendship, effort, and victory" like the classic shounen the author so clearly loves. But this comparison is about structure and pacing, not tone.
UEK has a typical structure where our protagonist faces increasingly challenging foes until the final showdown with the Big Bad. Each arc focuses on one problem and how Kiyoshi overcomes the trial with the help of the people around him. He might be the only one who can go toe-to-toe with the bad guys, but he can only do it because so many people believe in him. The usual stuff.
What really got me to stick with the series wasn't the classic shounen feel though. Nor was it the fight scenes (they're average for the most part) or the wholesome gags (pretty good most of the time). It's the character work that made UEK one of my weekly WSJ reads.
Between each arc we always have at least one chapter dedicated to winding down and letting the characters internalise their growth. Not just for Kiyoshi either! We get glimpses of where everyone's at and where their sights are set next. It's like sitting down and getting cozy after a tough day.
During that time, we get silly scenes to catch back up with some characters we haven't seen for a while, develop some relationships, or just see the cast members goofing off. It makes them much more relatable and desirable to follow. Food for the soul. Then the subsequent chapters start establishing stakes and tension again when the next trial is introduced.
By comparison, Kagurabachi just keeps zooming ahead. We didn't even get a full chapter to process Chihiro dying and coming back to life! If there was a time to pause and take things in, that was it!!! But by the end of the chapter, Chihiro's rolling out with the Masumi. We skipped over three whole days that could have been shown to check on him, Hakuri, and Shiba at a minimum!
At the start of UEK's current arc, we are still taking time to show how Kiyoshi, Akari, Nehan, and Jack Joe are doing. There's no sense of needing to rush into the next fight scene lest the audience grow bored. It's all about the character growth and setting the stage for even more of it.
Ichi the Witch is also closer to a traditional shounen than Kagurabachi is. But unlike UEK, it's got blurrier lines between friend and foe. It also relies less on the power of friendship (though there's still plenty of that).
Again after every major arc, we get time to sit with the characters for at least a whole chapter. The first big one was what sold me on this series, actually.
The first long arc in Ichi the Witch focused on Gokuraku trying to save his family and kingdom at large. There were a lot of heavy moments exploring the necessity of grief and regret- it's really good. And once the bad guy was defeated, we spent an appropriate amount of time with everyone in the aftermath.
Instead of rushing on, we spent a whole chapter and a half exploring how the experience changed Gokuraku and his sister. We sat with him as he weighed his options, thought through his decisions, and finally got the emotional catharsis he (and the audience) needed.
We got the same thing after the most recent arc too, which tackled themes of love, loss, and carrying memories forward. It caused a ton of huge feelings. And once again, we got to spend at least one chapter getting the proper catharsis for those feelings, resetting the stakes, and building tension again.
Ichi the Witch is like Kagurabachi in that the fights are generally snappy and plot-heavy instead of just existing for their own sake. So it's very noticeable that we are given time to relax and explore the characters here and not in Kagurabachi.
Ichi the Witch also doesn't seem like it's rushing from one fight to the next. There's plenty of action, yes, but we are taking the time to let characters play magical ping pong while factions plot their next move on the side. The characters are front-and-center instead of the Hype and Aura moments.
And lastly...
UNDER DOCTOR is similar to Kagurabachi in that we never linger very long on any particular story- the longest "arc" so far has been 3 chapters at most. Yet even with only 26 chapters out so far, we've spent two of them following two separate characters around on a day off and one showing how they all function together as a little found family. They were great chapters that were extremely welcome even though they didn't advance the plot at all.
Even when Haiji (the titular "Under Doctor") is on a solo mission, we still come back to check on Chiwako and Shuuli by the end. They don't need to be directly related to what's going on for us to get in their heads! They matter to Haiji on a personal level, so it's important to see what they're up to. They exist in the story because of his actions, but aren't there only for his story. Can't really say the same about Kagurabachi's cast members- their screen time depends on how relevant they are to Chihiro's mission.
That's the thing that Kagurabachi lacks the most and it really hurts the overall quality. Characters are effectively established, and these one-shot style tearjerker backstories work as individual chapters, but there's no sense of catharsis or character security. As soon as their purpose in the story is done with, we discard characters and completely forget about them unless they're needed again. They're just props. Just a summary explanation on why characters are who they are and nothing more.
And it's even worse when it comes to the women. The damn fridge is full, Hokazono! STOP KILLING YOUR WOMEN TO GET THEM OUT OF THE STORY!
So far, the women in the series that have existed for something other than a (usually male) character's sob story are:
Char (child who exists to soften Chihiro's character and display his deep empathy, hasn't been seen since the Rakuzaichi Arc)
Hinao (plot device to introduce Char and Soya and mind children, hasn't been seen since the Rakuzaichi arc)
Shiyumi (fought and died to Sojo)
Yatsuru (has had all of like two lines and a few mentions in passing, not even a character right now)
"Pink Bearer" (we don't even have her name yet, not a character)
Hiyuki (Chihiro's rival, hasn't been seen since the Sword Bearer Assassination Arc)
Tamaki (Tou member, not even as much characterisation as Enji got)
Sumi (part of the single unit that is the Masumi, which is fronted by Ro)
Toto (non-combatant, partial comedic relief Hishaku member)
Yuki (hostage daughter of a Kamunabi member)
Kiri (unknown purpose but tied to her grandfather)
Traitor ninja lady (died to Kiri)
Chiaki's Mom (manifestation of the pressure Chiaki is under, this one is alright)
Bath house, smoke shop, and fortune-teller grannies (3/4 for gags in bonus chapters, 1 for Hokuto to flirt with)
Not great usage or writing for them, yeah. Meanwhile, the rest...
Uran (killed Kunishige)
Char's Mom (died to save Char)
Yuu's Sister (motivation for Yu to "invade" the Rakuzaichi, rescue target for Chihiro)
Ice Lady (died to change the trajectory of Hakuri's life)
Kyora's Wife (died to make Kyora waver at a key moment)
Iori (rescue target, Samura's sob story and possible temporary Tobimune holder)
Inori (died in service of Samura's backstory and his relationship to Iori, as well as Iori's sob story)
Yura's Wife (died for his backstory)
Chiaki ("fixed" Kunishige with her love, presumed dead for Akemura's and Chihiro's backstory)
Kunishige's Mom (died for his backstory) <- NEW!!
It's just not a good look at all. You don't have to have every woman be a badass, kick-ass independent fighter! Just do more than introduce then completely side-line them via a built-in Relevancy Timer, okay? No one is safe from being off-screened for years at a time in this series, but women get the worst of it due to them being even more disposable than the men.
It's a really sad state of affairs that we aren't guaranteed to get Chiaki's perspective in the one arc where she's guaranteed to be alive for it. She's in a decent position for it- she's a central figure for the political conflict and obviously important as the woman that Kunishige and Akemura cherished in different ways. And we've seen her perform those roles so far, even gotten in her head for a little to see why she's doing what she is.
But what about her feelings outside of the men in her life? Outside of her role as the Soga Princess? We don't even get that kind of information about Chihiro, so there's basically no chance we'll get it with her either. With her functions in the story is being Fixer of Man, Sister, and Princess- very gender-coded roles that don't do anything to break the mould, and we aren't doing much to examine the tropey misogyny of those roles being assigned to her. Much like we never examined all the rescue targets and dead wives before her.
I really want to give Hokazono the benefit of the doubt. I really do- I don't think he hates women or anything. It's just that the way he writes them makes it clear he's not interested in going above and beyond to make them feel on-par with the men in terms of importance. We need more ladies who exist for their own reasons outside of enhancing a man's story, y'know? Do you know that, Hokazono? And we DESPERATELY need character development chapters to better space out the action scenes.
I like this series!
I like the characters!
I like the development potential they have!
Let me spend more time with them even if it's not in a fight or advancing the plot!
P L E A S E ! ! !
I think I got it all out of my system now. See you next week, dear void.
To put it bluntly, the only way to end homelessness is to house people or kill them.
That's it. Those are your options. Homelessness doesn't go away based on "crime crackdowns." You will imprison the unhoused, and when they are free, they will be unhoused again. Or they will die in prison.
When you burn encampments or force people out without their stuff, they remain unhoused or freeze to death.
After working with the unhoused, it's become abundantly clear that those who don't want to support them instead want them dead.
There is blood on the hands of every government and organization that controls the homeless population with force instead of compassion.
when we drink we do it right getting slizzard sippin sizzurp in my ride. like six seven
now im feeling so fly like nine eleven
Shit, the way things are going, racial slurs, racist jokes, and the N word have become socially acceptable too. The bar, already in hell, has gone lower and still!
personally i believe there are two things you need to be keenly aware of to write an actually good m/f romance. obviously a good writer isnt going to just plainly state them but u should be able to tell.
1. how does the patriarchy and coercion for women to be presentable and marry and be moms and serve men affect each character and this relationship?
2. WHAT DOES THE WOMAN LIKE ABOUT THE MAN
just in general i think straight men... struggle to imagine what exactly the woman is getting out of a relationship. so they gesture at "he's nice" and "he saves her" and "he's dorky" I DONT CARE IF YOURE STRAIGHT, IMAGINE SOMEONE YOU WANT TO SPEND YOUR LIFE WITH!!! also read stories written by women.
Lesbians
clap for lesbians
kudo was like a cousin to me
we all have that one cousin who is dead adn is never coming back
chiaki had like five of those after irishima alone