The first Thrawn trilogy is my favorite Legends trilogy. I think Karrde and Mara are good OCs. I like seeing Lando get to shine. I like Luke being highly capable. But, of course, I don't agree with everything in it, even ignoring those things that were not negated until the prequels.
One of those things is one I noticed today when re-reading. Luke dressed all in black. I mean, he was only dressed in black in ROTJ to highlight the aspect that he might fall. We even got the gray inside-flap at the end so that he wasn't in unrelieved black anymore. Why do they keep in in black afterwards?
Some while ago, I read that in at least some of the comics books (I never read any SW comics), they basically treated the black-clothes look as the way Jedi dressed in the pre-Empire days and that Luke was wearing something similar to a Jedi uniform. But we saw the Force Ghosts all dressed...well, kinda like Uncle Owen to be fair (not sure in Ben/Obi-Wan's original appearance it was meant to be anything Tattooine fashion for the older male), so if that is true, then it's kind of a surprise to me. If it's not true they used it as older Jedi uniform, it's still odd that Luke continues to dress that way forever and ever. I think he should dress like a normal person after ROTJ.
Vader, the Emperor, the Rebellian, and Imperial officers (in a post-Empire galaxy)
This is sort of ending with ROTJ, or maybe using Legends or some other Rebel-victorious fashion. The point being the Empire goes down, whichever continuity you are using.
I know it's been discussed before that while Obi-Wan and Yoda are really fixated on Vader (to the point that we get the phrase "Vader and his Emperor"), this does not at all seem to be the case with the Rebellion. I admit, we don't see a lot of them and their priorities, but the Emperor's presence was worth a mention and Vader's wasn't. Likewise (at least in the first movie), Vader didn't command tremendous respect from Imperials, despite significant authority.
So, on a search I came across a thread from /r/askhistorians April fool's day 2015 event in which someone said By Hoth, though Darth Vader had basically taken over the Imperial Navy by murdering a number of fairly competent Admirals, and Vader failed to "close the trap" on the Rebels.
And it made me start wondering how much the Rebellion knows about his murderous ways and what they feel the impact of such murders are. Like, sure he's evil, but do they think he's doing him any tactical/strategic favors? Or is that too outstripped by his tactical accomplishments?
Now, as some threads had people posting in-character that made me think of the post-WW2 era when multiple German generals wrote some rather self-serving works about how their own plans would have won Germany the war and how Hitler refused to listen, etc. And I wondered how many Imperials would do the same. And who they would blame. Sure, Vader killed a few folks, but come on, Ozzel was pretty poor, anyway. And you know, the Emperor really did get overconfident there in the end. :)
Oh, here is a master post of all the "ask fantasy historians" posts from April 1, 2015 for those who like that sort of thing (like me).
I am an Anakin/Padme fan and really I think it's silly. I'd say Luke has one very strong trait in common with Padme (being able to see that Anakin still has good in him and can be saved). The other traits that he has in common with her are not unique to them. A willingness to fight for good cause - so many have that. While Leia has some similarities with Anakin, those are similarly wide-spread traits. And both definitely have traits and mannerisms that I don't particularly see in their biological parents. Or Bail or Beru or Owen. It's almost like they are their own people with their own personalities, who'd a thunk it?
Do we have any info on Hobbie or Janson's families?
There are a whole lotta orphans in Star Wars. I was looking up Rogue Squadron and you know Wedge and Corran, and of course Tycho don't have living parents by time we know them.
But I was also interested in these two - have any parents or siblings ever been mentioned for either of them?
I saw a post recently about Mara’s parents and it got me thinking about my headcanons concerning her parents.
First off in my opinion Mara shouldn’t have special parents. What I mean Mara shouldn’t come from a lineage of force users or regarded people in the galaxy. I think the old EU already had enough dynasties and elite families. Plus I feel the Skywalkers should be the only larger than life family. I also having Mara come from random people makes her even more special because some little girl from an average family became one of most renowned figures in galactic history.
Also in regard to what happened to them and how Mara came to the Emperor. My headcanon is that when Palpatine saw/felt Mara’s potential he took her away from her parents with the cover story that he was going to give her a better life. After he took her away he had her parents killed so that first Mara wouldn’t have any distractions and second to fuel her hate. Also I assumed he lied to Mara and told her that they died in an accident or had some criminal kill them and make it look like a comon crime.
Now I do another more fucked up headcanon that Mara’s parents were imperial fanatics who willingly gave their little girl to a monster basically. Because they thought it would be the highest honor not knowing or maybe not caring that the abuse she was going to experience.
In general I think Mara might know what happened to her parents but she keeps it up to herself. I would argue that the only person to know this apart from herself is Luke and possibly Ben alongside Leia and Han.
I definitely agree on the first part. About them being non-special. I'd say non-Force-Sensitive. With ordinary, not politically important or socially influential occupations - factory worker, teacher, cook, accountant, etc.
I do disagree on him saying (or at least them believing) he was giving her a better life since she seemed to think they didn't want her to go/didn't have a choice (though that could be her projecting, of course, since she was so young). I admit, I haven't read NJO era (did not like the premise and quit partway into the very first book), so if anything was revealed there, I'm ignorant of it.
I don't think Mara knows of them being dead, or knows more than she said (again, only going on earlier works here). I think there's a tragedy to the idea that Palpatine didn't have to kill them - they were entirely powerless ordinary people who had no chance of challenging the Empire taking her.
Also, she doesn't remember any siblings, so I am assuming none existed, but that is an assumption. I then think they wouldn't have more children, because if they were they same they might be taken too, and that would hurt them so much, and be such a horrible outcome for their child.
Interestingly, I had sort of head-canoned that Owen and Beru never had children because it would be highly dangerous for such children if Luke was ever discovered and they didn't want to bring a child into the world with a target on their back. Don't think I've ever seen anyone else go that route.
Fic recommendation request: plotty Luke fic between ESB and ANH
It's an interesting time frame. Luke, of course, has to deal with the emotional fall-out of being told Vader is his father. He's definitely not talking about with friends. One friend captured, others hurting (Chewie exists), and possibly making a new friend in Lando. And we know Luke becomes more Jedi-ish during this time frame. He's not flying anymore by ROTJ (and what do Wedge and the higher-ups think about him not meeting them at the rendezvous point?) . And somewhere along the way, he senses good in Darth Vader.
So I would love to find fic dealing with these emotional upheaval and skill growth and changing roles in this era. And with others reacting to the changes in him, even though they are ignorant of some of the details. But I want it be fic with a plot instead of just thinking/talking about feelings.
Looking for Original-Trilogy compliant fic this time. No Ahsoka or Rex or any of those folks (Rogue Squadron members are welcome). No contact with Force ghosts. No meeting Vader.
I was thinking about how in a previous post I thought about a fic idea of Luke (probably fruitlessly) trying to find out about Mara's family (in a Legends-divergent post-ROTJ era).
Then I thought about how, in light of Artoo's knowledge, Luke might get to meet and know the Naberries. I think he would want that - a connection to his mother (less certain on Leia, as her family dynamic was different growing up, with a present mother and father).
So I think it's far more realistic for Mara never to have that, it is also heavy on the main-characteritis that Luke gets it (which, of course, he didn't in 90s Legends, because his mother hadn't been developed yet) and Mara doesn't. So does that make it better that she should? I mean, in the sense that she's not just slotted into Luke's life, orbiting his circle of family and profession? Instead he and his are part of her life, and not the whole of it (though this can also be done via Karrde and his crew), just as she is part of his life and not the whole of it. To make it feel more like they are equals. Obviously, Han has the same circumstance, but he was a main character it the movies, so it doesn't work at all the same way.
Then, does Mara even want to know them? If she doesn't, that could serve as interesting point in their differing natures or some other aspect of their relationship.
I was thinking of Artoo and all that he knows that he doesn't share. Okay, it's a secret that he isn't supposed to share with Luke. But then after Vader is dead, would he say something? More importantly, does Artoo have a clue that Luke already knew Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker? He wasn't present for the reveal, and it seems very unlikely that Luke said a word about it to anyone before getting it confirmed (though I don't know if EU says any differently). So Artoo could think that Luke didn't know that part.
Basically, I've seen discussed what Artoo (retconned) knew that the human characters didn't, but I'm not sure I've seen it mentioned what they knew that Artoo didn't know they knew.
When do you think the war shifts to the Rebel alliance/the New Republic is more powerful than the Empire (movie-oriented thoughts)
Of course, you have the version in Legends, and the current canon.
But I was rewatching the OT the other day, and trying to figure out what I'd think based on the movies alone. Which, of course, had no New Republic.
I get mixed feelings. The opening crawls make it always sound like the Rebellion is tiny, but then the ESB one says Luke is the leader, when he clearly isn't. In ANH, Leia talks about more systems are slipping through Tarkin's fingers, implying a lot of resistance. But in ROTJ, the Emperor thinks defeating them at this one battle will destroy the Rebels forever, implying far fewer military resources (though, to be fair, he may just be overconfident).
I can't help but think there would be a massive upswing of resistance (not necessarily allying with the existing Rebel alliance) after ANH. The Emperor has disbanded the Senate (which it took him a long time to do, given how long he's been Emperor), and he's both proven a willingness to destroy entire planets and lost the ability to do so. Well, at least by those means (there may be EU with him using other means - though I'm not sure if that's happend and that's really a consistent narrative with how the DS is treated - but then one shot doing the job is more terrifying than many, which shows in how we treat nuclear weapons v conventional bombing that caused more destruction and loss of lives).
If I'm ignoring canon/Legends, I would definitely have the Empire losing significant power and control in the era between ANH and ESB (though still very powerful). Then, of course, we have ROTJ. Now, killing the Emperor is a major accomplishment - he's not the sort to have a successor in the wings (I am studiously ignoring all his post-ROTJ appearances because the entire point in the movie is him being dead and gone forever). And there's no senate to make decisions. Governors have had control for the last few years - but we've no idea if they've any interaction with each other. There is still the bureaucracy of the Empire, presumably at Coruscant. To what degree does that keep them united? What centralized oversight is there to give the military their orders? Do you have regional governors each using the military forces under their own command to try to shore up their own power (and prevent rebellions) or are they working together? How many end up fighting each other in civil war, because they both want leadership of the Empire or want resources another has to solidify their own small kingdoms? What about the military forces that reported directly to the Emperor? Are there mass desertions? That would depend on whether the rank and file think they can win anymore, which depends on the overall state of the Rebellion v the Empire. And we have to evaluate whether their families are on planets under Imperial Authority and what reprisals they might expect for themselves and their family.
How long does it take to "finish off" the Empire that really only fully did the same a few years ago, when the first DS was created? Are the planets/former senators saying "hey, we need to reform the Imperial Senate now that the Emperor is dead", whether for reasons good or bad?
Of course, leaving the Empire does not mean joining whatever new galactic government is formed (which I'm just going to call the New Republic for ease). Goals and values may not align. Especially if it's still a centralized government on Coruscant, and the power tends to lie in the inner core. Sure, Palpatine stoked the Separatists, but there were real reasons for them to feel under-served and not well represented in the Old Republic and you have to figure out whether they think that remains the case in the post-Imperial world. And then there are those planet who may just be shy of ever being under laws of any greater authority after the abuses of the last one.
So that leads to the idea of how long it takes a New Republic to form, how many want to be a part of it, and if it grows with time.
Any other Luke/Mara fans not big fans of Vision of the Future?
I'm not a fan
I'm a fan
I have mixed feelings
Voting ended onMay 30
Okay, so I'm recently back into the SW fandom. I looked at my old books - the Thrawn trilogy was quite worn (paperbacks, creases in spine). Specter of the Past was slightly worn. Vision of the Future barely worn. I reread the Thrawn Trilogy and enjoyed it greatly. It wasn't perfect (even the first time, I wasn't fond of the clones), but it was enjoyable. Mara was a good character, as was Karrde, and Lando got to shine some, too.
I remember being not particularly fond of Vision of the Future, but I have very little remembrance of why. I could re-read to refresh my memory, but I'm not going to do that when I remember not caring for it.
I know I was already a Luke/Mara fan. I know I didn't like the direction Luke's character took in so many EU books, in general. I had forgotten, but when reminded disliked his "trying not to use the Force unnecessarily" thing. In the excerpts I read, I didn't like Mara's attitude towards Luke. I can't say it was unmerited, as I've already said, I didn't like the directions his character had taken, but it wasn't enjoyable to read either of them that way. Plus it suffered what you always will when you go back and put something in the middle (since I read YJK books, and there was no indication of a married Luke there). Mind you, I think they should have gotten together earlier, it's just that it was a little jarring to read, as I recall.
Looking for an old Star Wars fic (can't recall title)
I think Obi-Wan was temporarily blind, but couldn't swear to it. All I really remember is at one point he smells perfume on Anakin and thinks maybe Anakin has finally decide to avail himself of company at one the city's brothels/pleasure palaces/some term or other. Think he recognizes the scent and thinks Anakin couldn't afford that kind of company. I don't remember if the fic was any good, I don't remember the plot. I just remember the generalities of that line.
Looking for Anidala relationship-reveal fic (specific types)
Reading a post the other day that I agree with - yes, it's funny to say everyone knew about Anakin and Padmé, but really, it doesn't seem likely everyone did.
In this context, I was thinking about Obi-Wan. Obviously, he knew by ROTS. Now, I am completely disregarding the cut scene, because I find it incompatible with the "Anakin is the father, isn't he?" He can't say that if the prior conversation happened. But still, he knew, which is why he went to her then. But, at least if one only uses the movies, how and when he knew is up in the air.
Now, I'm amenable to movie-compliant or AU fics set between AOTC and ROTS for this (indeed, I was originally thinking about fics I read back before ROTS came out). So it can be a shocking discovery for him or him finally unable to continuing engaging in willful blindness.
Of course, they were not discreet at the end of AOTC, but you think Obi-Wan told him "you have to end this" and Anakin said "yes, master" and then just...didn't.
In any event, my particular is that Obi-Wan and Padmé are not close friends. Both are close to Anakin, but not to each other. If it's set earlier, Obi-Wan might have a more negative outlook towards her (he wasn't fond of politicians), whereas later be more friendly. He's likely to think of her and the relationship in terms of what it means for Anakin - so be more negative on it earlier (nearer AOTC), and more positive on it later (nearer ROTS). At least, that's my opinion, so that's what I'm looking for.
You know this might be a bit of hot take but I actually don’t mind Luke being powerful or even the most powerful. Like even before he proclaimed himself Grand Master he was Grand Master in all but name. So him being stronger than his peers (which technically he has none as he trained all of them) is not a bad thing. I mean nobody is going to be bother by Yoda being the strongest of his time.
But anyway the point of this is the issue I have with how Luke is portrayed in pre-NJO stories specifically those published in the 90s by Bantam. The authors had a tendency of depowering Luke and practically humiliating the guy. Even Zahn did this but in his case I’m less bothered by it because he still portrayed Luke as competent even without the Force. But this isn’t just the issue, the problem is that because of this Luke doesn’t contribute to the story at all even though he is one of the main characters or the main character.
Take the Jedi Academy Trilogy for example apart from establishing the Academy Luke has no importance to the story. As first the one to redeem Kyp is Han, Daala’s plot has nothing to do with him, Exar is defeated by his students and he spends most of the finale out of action. If you literally replaced Luke with random Jedi Master it would’t make a difference because on top of not contributing to the story there is not character development for him. We don’t get any conflict with Luke about resurrecting the Order or the guilt about two of his apprentices falling to the dark side and one dying.
Luke was basically treated as punching bag by the authors with no character development or even contribution to the story. He doesn’t learn he doesn’t grown until the next generation comes and he is no longer the focus. There are exceptions to this of course like I previously mention, Zahn who while making him weaker still had him grow, be cool and contribute to the story. But most of the authors? They either hated him or just didn’t know what to do with him.
I am similarly unhappy with the direction Luke took after the Zahn trilogy. I am not as Legends-compliant as some. I like to take some elements, but not others (I like a good number of the characters). I want to make it compliant with prequels (which obviously necessitates changes to Jedi with familial history, clones, etc.), but absolutely not with prequel-era EU.
Get Mara and Luke together more quickly (by time they got together in Legends, I didn't care much, because I didn't like what had become of Luke's character - and I hated the first NJO book so much I didn't read more, so never got to read them as a couple in professional works). And I'd not make Luke's life be such a disaster. I understand the element of angst, and that writers are in somewhat of a problematic place, given that Luke has finished his hero's journey (faced the challenge of the dark side and won, is confident in himself, etc.), and I don't want him going backwards in that regard. While I will totally read AU fic with Mara in the Rebellion (shoutout to Ashes of Yavin), but I do think that diminishes Luke somewhat. How he sees the good in people, and how he can bring someone's good back out in them (and I do credit him a large amount with Han's return in ANH, even disregarding Anakin, who we should not disregard).
So much of the Luke material was written before the prequels, of course. And, having seen the prequels, I became very keen on the idea of Luke doing right what the Jedi order did wrong. It matters how he wanted to save Anakin when Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted him to kill Vader. That attachment is what saved Anakin. So, while I can maybe see the idea of Luke seeking out old Jedi lore and artifacts, I think he shouldn't look to the past too much.
I think Zahn getting rid of Obi-Wan worked in limiting Luke's ability to just ask from the old guard, but it was still years after ROTJ, and he's had plenty of time to ask questions. Of course, the prequels cause issues there, too, since it wasn't that long ago the Jedi were a major force in the galaxy, and the Jedi were so tied to some senatorial folks still around.
Also, Emperor Palpatine should be well and truly dead after ROTJ and never ever have any chance of returning. I've never liked that plot device, and it's a very old one.
Plot bunny - Obi-Wan force visions and gathering a crew
Fix-its are nothing new, but here's my concept I'll never write.
I need to set it in a timeframe after Obi-Wan has had Anakin long enough that he's at least starting to care, to get attached. But still before Obi-Wan turns 30. I want some of that TPM mentality in him. Not quite sure exactly when, though.
So, he has a force vision - just fragmented bits of GFFA history up until Return of the Jedi. Not a coherent whole. He sees the soldiers (if all his visions are helmeted, he will not know them as clones) massacring the Jedi. He sees Anakin turning the dark side (but does not know what caused it), and becoming Vader and hunting down Jedi. He sees Anakin with Padme and Padme's death/birth of the twins. He sees a few images of Luke and Leia's childhoods through the years so he can recognize them as adults. Sees a handful of Empire's cruelties (including Alderaan and that Leia had Death Star plans). The attack on the Death Star. His future self's lies to Luke, the "forever will it dominate your destiny" talk, the idea that Luke must kill Vader, and then Luke turning Vader back to the light. He sees the Emperor is the Sith, but does not recognize that shriveled figure as Chancellor Palpatine.
Obviously, he's really shook up, but tries to release negative emotions. He reminds himself that visions of the future are highly suspect (which is one reason not to go the Council - I need him not to for the plot to work). If you change your actions to avoid them, you might even bring them about, etc. But it does affect his actions. Besides being absolutely horrified for so many reasons, he's also kinda shook up by Anakin turning away from the Dark Side - that this is possible is completely contrary to anything he has been taught and does affect his worldview.
Because he does think about the possibilities. He would want to save the Jedi, save the Republic, and save Anakin - in that order of precedence.
Obviously, Anakin's kids are very important to saving the galaxy from the Empire in the long-run (if vision is accurate), which would give incentive to let them exist. But if Obi-Wan can stop the Sith quickly enough, that won't matter. Of course, that can only happen once he has more buy-in on the vision. Will probably need some near-term event in the first or second vision to put Obi-Wan more in that headspace.
He would start off alone and gain allies along the way - we've got a mystery element to the story here, where they try to figure out what we know - and try to fight it as they discover more. I don't know which allies. Only movies as canon, but can pull from EU for characters. I discard Jedi Apprenctice books because Qui-Gon is completely out of character, and Jedi Quest because Anakin is (both in my opinion, of course). And I haven't looked at other EU material from the prequel era.
It does seem like Quinlan Vos's powerset would be absolutely fantastic for him to end up involved (and useful in an investigation if they ever find anything tangible he can touch).
Bail Organa was not a senator yet in TPM, and I don't think Obi-wan liked politicians in AOTC and so had the impression they only became friends/allies in the clone wars (haven't rewatched prequels in a while, so may misremember). Not sure when Bail becomes a senator. So his visions showed Bail raising Leia, which puts him on ally side. But when? And what all does Obi-Wan tell him? Because, of course, he would expect Bail to place averting the Empire (and saving Alderaan) above saving the Jedi.
I need at least a couple more members of the team, but don't know the Jedi bench very well, due to aforementioned lack of exposure to EU. OCs could be created. We'll need someone he can talk to about visions. And we need someone unconventional, not abiding by the same dogma as the Council/Jedi-as-a-whole. Obi-Wan is a great Jedi, but he's extremely by-the-numbers in terms of the Code and his beliefs (moreso in TPM era than later), and we need someone who looks at unusual things to provide insight and unconventional courses of action. Who would be wiling to keep secrets from the Council, intrigued when we talk about people coming back from the dark side, but who won't decide to let someone fall just to test the theory. :)
Meanwhile, expect Obi-Wan's relationship with Anakin to get rockier. Young Obi-Wan absolutely saw him as a threat, and that's come rearing back full force. But Anakin hasn't done anything yet. Obi-Wan's got conflicting ideas of what he should do, and is second-guess himself a lot. Anakin fell in his vision. But then maybe changing his behavior makes Anakin fall. I'm not having Anakin live in a apartment with Obi-Wan. But he will be with him enough to at least eventually realize that Obi-Wan is meeting with other Jedi about stuff he's being let in on and might even realize he's part of what's being discussed. Meanwhile, Anakin still has talks with the Chancellor, and those divisions are being stoked.
Occasionally, more visions may be had (but not more than every few months, at most). They will be different (contradicting original) as the future changes. And sometimes they will be wrong (whether someone interfered or not) - especially early on, so Obi-Wan can still have a lot of uncertainty on what he should do, or if he should do anything.
Ultimately, Anakin must be the Chosen One and bring balance to the Force. But Obi-Wan and his folk can still be the ones to avert Order 66 and save the galaxy from the Empire.
I saw a post on a message board once that said (movie-wise), the Jedi almost all wanted to avert/defeat the dark side (they have so many rules that are meant to stop them falling), but Luke was the only one to embrace the light side. I kind of agree - in terms of how he's not just about not falling, but also bringing people back the light side, having those attachments in positive fashion, etc. Embracing the good instead of just everything being about avoiding the bad. But he's not going to be here to do that, so I wonder if we might somehow use this gang and Anakin/Padme to get that mentality in the heads of at least some Jedi. Or maybe just Padme to make Anakin think that way. Or maybe he just leaves or gets kicked out of the Jedi - that's fine.
Help picking a Star Wars planet for Jedi Academy (AU)
I need a good planet to set Luke on for teaching Jedi. Not a place with no other life on it. A place with people and a normal economy where he can interact with normal folks, go to a restaurant, etc. But Coruscant is so citified. Like, I was thinking a place where could maybe live on the ground, or at least in a apartment complex near a park. And not the seat of government power.
Unfortunately, I only know a handful of planets. Anyone got any suggestions? Preferably middling instead of inner core or outer rim.
I was thinking about the different takes on how Leia reacts to Darth Vader returning the light side. I have no moral problem with her hating him and not giving a damn that he returned to the light (though it does matter to me that she perceive Tarkin as the destroyer of Alderaan, as she did in the movie).
Leia didn't have much time to react to the news that Vader was her father in ROTJ, of course. But also, Luke told her then that there was still good in him, that he felt it. And Leia didn't argue against that, and I don't think she tried to dissuade Luke after he told her that, but I might have the order of dialog wrong in my head.
Like I said, though, she didn't really have time to emotionally process any of the information she learned then. I do feel that she would believe/trust Luke when he tells her Anakin turned back to the good side. But that doesn't mean she has to forgive him or to perceive him as her father. He might just be nothing to her or someone she hated who is now dead, and that's morally absolutely okay. But I do really think she needs to legitimately believe that he did come back to the good side, mostly because I think she needs to believe Luke. And that means she needs to believe that he was once a good man, that he wasn't always evil (in the case of time travel fix-it fics or post-ROTJ stories where their mother and his relationship to her is discussed, etc).
Now I'm veering in to EU material. It's not canon (indeed, very specifically not) with Mara Jade. I think she's a good illustration (not the only one) of Luke being the sort that is sort of "the past is past" - she did bad things. It doesn't mean he thinks she's bad in the present, much like he can think of Anakin as good again at his time of death. In the trilogy, Leia similarly accepts Mara. Is that something we'd count as indicative of her behavior towards Anakin Skywalker, or is his too close and personal? Of course, in the EU, there are several defecting Imperials among the Rebels aren't there? And not just the Biggs Darklighter types who never intended loyalty to the Empire.
