royally brainrotting

wilmon is endgame

[uselessroyals]

Greetings!

my name is Demeter, they/it/he

welcome to my little young royals corner. i binged this show some time after season 1 came out and was immediately obsessed.

all my own posts are tagged with #demeter's rambles, but tbh i have no idea how the tumblr tagging system works so…

also i have made a doc with all my favourite young royals fanfics which you can find here! go show them all some love <3

my main is @uselessdoodles :]

[sflow-er]

Fanfic resource/reference: sharing my notes on Swedish nicknames

I've had the privilege of being taught about Swedish nicknames by some knowledgeable Swedes on here, and I've also tried to research them on my own (e.g. this article in Språkvård has been a great resource). I've got a bunch of notes based on the info I've gathered - they are messy, but I figured I'd share them here for any other YR fic writers who find them useful (inspired by @dreamyelectronicmusic asking about nicknames yesterday)!

Some rules and examples:

- Virtually all Swedish nicknames are bisyllabic with emphasis on the first syllable to flow easily with the spoken language!

- Some very typical standard formats:

Girls’ nicknames most typically end in -a, -(a)n or -i: Cecilia > Cilla or Cissi, Charlotta/e > Lotta or Lotti, Therese > Tessan, Louise > Lussan or Lojsan

The most typical format for guys' nicknames consists of the first syllable, a double consonant and -e: Wilhelm > Wille, Simon > Simme, Mikael > Micke, Charles > Tjalle

Fredrik > Fredde or Freddy, Fredrika > Freddi; Freddie can be either but is often assumed female (cf. Maddie)

Alexander > Alex (pronounced a-lex or al-lex); Vincent > Vince is possible (pronounced vin-se)

- Not every name has an "established" or standard nickname

Particularly applicable to new and international names, as well as names that already have a feel and pattern similar to nicknames: Sara, Rosh, Felice, Henry

Sometimes nicknames based on a more commonly Swedish variant of the name may be used (e.g. Felice and Henry could be something like Flisan and Hempa based on Felicia and Henrik, but this isn't standard)

- Nicknames can be built from the base name by various methods:

From the start: Katarina > Kattis, Carolina > Carro, Ibrahim > Ibbe, Klas > Klabbe, Alexander > Alex

From the end: Karolina > Lina, Kristina > Tina or Stina

From the middle: Elisabet > Lisa

Cut & paste: Margareta > Meta, Urban > Ubbe, Felicia > Fia, Flisan, Flisi

Adding a middle consonant: Bo > Bosse

Doubling of first letter or syllable: Lennart > Lelle, Fredrika > Fifi

Doubling of middle consonant: Ingrid or Anna > Ninni, Kristina > Nina

- The form of the nickname is simple, preferably with only one consonant sound (single or double) between the vowels:

If the base name contains a consonant group, one of the consonants is removed: Albert > Abbe, Margareta > Maggan, Viktor > Vicke, Marcus > Mackan

Strong consonants (p, t, k, b, d, g, s) are retained over weaker ones (r, l, m, n): Nils > Nisse, exception: Walter > Walle

If the consonants are equally strong, the first one is retained: Viktor > Vicke, Ulrika > Ulla, Mats > Matte

If the nickname does contain a consonant group, the first consonant is a nasal sound (n, m, ŋ): Henrik > Henke or Henka (pronounced heŋke/a)

A consonant (often p) can be added after a nasal sound taken from the base name: Tommy > Tompa, Bengt > Bempa, Henrik > Hempa

The consonant group is pronounced in the same part of the mouth and the second sound is always toneless (never b, d, g)

- The first syllable and other weighted syllables are particularly prominent in nicknames and can lead to different variants:

Birgitta > Bibbi, Biggan or Gittan; Margareta > Maggan, Greta or Meta; Elisabet > Lisa or Bettan; Kristina > Tina, Kina, Kicki, Nina, Tinni, Tinna…

- Nicknames can also be based on last names, anecdotes etc. instead of a given name, and they may act as class markers:

e.g. Jonny/Sonny/Ronny are working class nicknames

Obscure nicknames and unusual variants are upper class: Smysan (not based on a given name); the real King Carl Gustaf was called Tjabo/Tjabbe in his youth; Queen Kristina would never be Kicki/Tina/Stina but e.g. Tinni/Tinna

Cf. Solsidan episode where Mickan tries to establish "Ybby" for Ebba

Some upper-class people still have normal nicknames (e.g. Wille)

- Many people have no nickname at all; some people may have several; others only have them in specific contexts:

some people introduce themselves by their nickname (Micke), others use their given name but also answer to a nickname among friends (Wille)

some women only use nicknames with their female friends

men may also address each other by their last names (remnant of military style)

people in a group may use nicknames based on last names to distinguish between two people with the same first name (but they don't necessarily use that nickname to address the person!)

- NB. some simple names and nicknames are easy to turn into "baby speak" or playground taunt versions (doubling with p or b):

Annapanna, Ollepolle, Walleballe, Soffiboffi etc.

Parents may be mindful of these when naming or nicknaming their child

---

I realise these rules and examples may not be particularly easy to follow - they aren't for me either! But I figured they might be of interest anyway.

As always, additions and corrections are very, very welcome!

[sflow-er]

A few notes on Linda's salary and the Erikssons' financial situation

I looked into this topic when @crownedwille brought it up in some tags a while ago. I abandoned it because I didn't think it would be that interesting after all, but the discussion started by @mydignityisinflames on @young-royals-confessions inspired me to finish the draft.

I was going to copy and paste it all in a reblog, but it got too long so... Here it is as a separate meta post!

Linda's job

As of S2, we know for sure that Linda is a registered nurse (sjuksköterska). This means she's completed a three-year (180 credit) higher education programme in nursing. We don't know if she's completed a specialist nurse's programme on top of that, but it isn't required to work at the youth clinic (ungdomsmottagningen or UMO).

Youth clinics are public clinics for people aged 12 to 22, primarily providing services related to sexual and mental health. Nurses there examine patients and take samples for lab testing etc., but they also counsel and reassure young people who come to them with concerns. (This explains why Carmen's post-S1 interview with the PRP actually gave me the impression that Linda was a youth counsellor instead.)

Anyway, Linda herself confirms in S3 that she works at the UMO. Both the Swedish CC and the subs have her telling Simon to be glad she doesn't make him "go" there every week for drug testing - but if you listen to her words, she actually says come in (komma in). This indicates that she works there.

Linda's monthly income and how it compares

We can estimate Linda's salary quite confidently by looking at relevant statistics from 2020 and 2021 when the show is set.

As a registered nurse working at a youth clinic, Linda is employed in the public sector. More specifically, by the municipality.

As of S3, we also know she is working in the region that is called Östra Mellansverige (Eastern Central Sweden) in the statistical data. Bjärstad's location was kept vague for a long time, but the hate letter Simon received in 3.02 included their address. Bjärstad's post/zip code was written as 58581 - this is a made-up code that puts them in the Linköping area. The closest real-world equivalent (58580, Ljungsbro) is just northwest of Linköping itself.

Here are the most relevant stats on monthly income (before taxes):

The average monthly income in Sweden was SEK 36,100 in 2020 and SEK 37,100 in 2021.

For non-specialist registered nurses employed in the municipal sector, specifically in Östra Mellansverige, average monthly income was SEK 38,300 in 2020 and SEK 40,000 in 2021. Their average base salary in this region (without any additions for evening/night shifts, weekends, experience etc.) was SEK 37,000 / 38,500.

In other words, Linda's monthly income should be pretty close to the national average. Maybe even slightly higher based on region, even though she may not work in the evenings or weekends as the UMO may not be open.

In a survey conducted in 2022, a household with children was considered low income if two parents' combined monthly income before taxes was less than SEK 42,000, or if a single parent's monthly income before taxes was less than SEK 29,500.

So, the Erikssons are not low income by definition. This fits the impression we get from their house, as well as details such as Sara having learned how to ride before Hillerska.

However, it is also clear from the show that they cannot necessarily afford larger surprise expenses such as Simon's tutoring. That makes sense when Linda is paying for everything herself. Her income may be slightly above the national average, but it falls between the numbers considered low income for a single-parent vs. two-parent household.

I guess we could call them a medium-income household, but towards the lower end.

About the house

It was indirectly revealed in S3 that Micke was the one who moved out when he and Linda separated. That's the only way Simon can have lived in their current house for fourteen years (i.e. since 2004, when he was two and Sara three):

Back in S1, when Sara said Linda should have left Micke when everything started, Simon protested that they wouldn't have had anywhere to live. This sounds like Linda was still financially dependent on Micke when the kids were small. It was probably Micke who originally bought or rented the house for his family (although the property, mortgage and/or lease could have still been in both their names).

Linda and Micke's assets will have been split 50:50 at the time of their divorce. If the house was bought rather than rented, she likely had to take out a new mortgage to buy him out. Mortgages in Sweden typically have very long payment terms, so it's likely there was still quite a bit left to pay, and the value of the property had increased in the meantime.

If the house is a rental, the rent will have gone up over the years. Based on a quick look at places for rent in Linköping, many terraced house units of that size currently cost SEK 11,000 to 18,000 per month. We don't know what the rent would have been in 2020/2021, but we can assume it would have taken a pretty big chunk of Linda's single income.

Anyway, it is a nice house. Especially if it's a rental, paying for it does put a strain on the Erikssons' finances, even though they aren't struggling as such.

About Hillerska

I had not meant to include this at all, but as there was some confusion on the confessions blog, it should be noted that Linda doesn't have to pay for Simon and Sara to attend Hillerska. Even private schools in Sweden haven't been allowed to charge tuition fees since 2014. They do charge very high boarding fees, but that's why Sara got a grant to board in S2. So in principle, Hillerska shouldn't be more expensive than Marieberg, although it is possible that school outings may cost a bit more and there may also be other more or less voluntary extra costs (e.g. private tutoring or equipment for extracurriculars).

If you want to read more about the boarding school fees, you can check out this post.

About Simon's summer jobs

I don't think Simon's lines here are meant to be taken as in, "Simon has to contribute to the family economy" or "Simon has to pay for all his own stuff." Linda keeps her children clothed, buys the things they need for their hobbies and presents for their birthdays (e.g. Sara's jodhpurs), and based on her phone call in S3, is even planning to take them abroad to see family.

The key here is the line about Wille and the other rich kids getting everything they want for free, including designer clothes or spontaneous trips to New York. Simon is simply saying he and Ayub need to make some money of their own to do activities and buy things they don't strictly need but want.

Simon and Ayub have been applying for summer jobs hos kommunen, with the municipality. These jobs are only offered for part of the summer (typically three weeks) because the municipality has a limited number of positions available and they want to employ as many applicants as possible. The duties usually involve helping out at municipal services and facilities, e.g. preschools, care facilities for the elderly, facilities for sports and leisure, museums, public parks, and so on. The municipality may also support local businesses and non-profitable associations in offering some positions as well.

Some examples by age:

14-year-olds: simple duties, e.g. mowing lawns or distributing newspapers; reasonable hourly wage SEK 50–80

15 to 16-year-olds: more complex duties mainly in the municipal sector, e.g. working with children, in leisure activities or with the elderly; reasonable hourly wage SEK 80–100

17 to 18-year-olds: increasingly complex duties and more opportunities to find work in the private sector, e.g. cashier work, customer service, simple administrative tasks, hospitality industry; reasonable hourly wage SEK 100–140

I wonder what kind of summer jobs Simon, Sara and Ayub have been doing (and Rosh too, other than the football camp). When outlining my post-S1 summer fic, I had imagined Simon applied to work with children while Sara chose park/garden maintenance because she found it calming after the stormy spring, but that was a long time ago (and the details never even made it into the fic).

__

Anyway, I think that was all the stuff I meant to cover! As always, I may well be wrong about something, and further discussion is very welcome.

[youngroyalsforever-deactivated2]

Too busy to write a 5k essay it deserves but neither the audience nor Wilhelm saw the actual monarchy as an institution worth fighting for or at least worth considering it.

The monarchy was completely absent from the show. You could replace it with a billion-dollar publicly traded company and it wouldn't change the plot. Concerns about public image? Check. Out of control sense of privilege? Check. Spoiled children of rich parents? Check.

No one from the unrealistically small royal family was given a chance to demonstrate or explore the gravity and the positive influence a thousand-year-old institution can have. Does the queen have causes she particularly cares about? Does she invest her time into fundraising for them? Does she think certain problems are overlooked by the society and does she use her celebrity status to draw attention to them? We have no idea, we only have been shown her caring about the public image of the institution she represents.

Same with Wille: in the show he was never given a chance to explore how his status could be used for good. Were there young people for whom his coming out meant a lot? Definitely, but we never heard about them. Would it be equally important for others if the crown prince started openly talking about his struggles with anxiety? For sure. This list is potentially endless but the creators were never interested in showing anything positive about the monarchy.

[hotarurea]

Honestly this post is so funny. And demonstrates perfectly why this is all bullshit. Monarchy has no benefits. Because the "charity" causes and celebrity platforming do not need monarchy to exist. It's a system based on the concept that some people are inherently more worthy than other people just by circumstance of birth. Monarchy doesn't perform any useful service to the people, it's an institution that exist solely to leech of off people and it concerns itself solely with looking good. And it silences anyone who dares criticise it. Just like you disabled all ways you possibly could to engage with criticism of this post.

Young Royals or Lisa does not owe you to pretend monarchy makes sense so your own racist, classist and homophobic fairytale would be kept alive. As a queer person, I know that monarchy is incompatible with queerness because it's existence depends on heteronormative biological determinism. There is no way for Wille to have a legitimate heir if he marries a man. Also most European monarchies even today are inescapably intertwined with Christianity which is also problematic when it comes to queerness.

Monarchy is a horrible, racist, outdated ruling system and yes, it's fundamentally incompatible with democracy because circumstance of birth dictate who holds positions within the system and not the actual people.

[youngroyalsforever-deactivated2]

Leaving it here as a reminder of why YR fandom is what it is.

About the point I think this person is trying to make: anyone who studied history, knows that old institutions weren't created perfect. Let's think of any parliament just a hundred years ago — chances are, it was comprised exclusively of upper class men and those men were adopting unfair laws. And yet, no one is advocatig for abolishing parliaments.

Institutions are nescessary. Abolishing them is rarely a good solution. But they must evolve and reform to stay functioning. Wilhelm is exactly the person who can bring changes to the monarchy.

[myshadesofwrong]

As a historian, who has a literal degree in this (primarily British monarchy with some French so a lot of my examples will come from them), I am begging you if you’re going to be anti-monarchy, at least know the facts so you’re no sprouting the same tired rhetoric over and over.

Or in other words, OP is right (about the fandom and the monarchy)

Rants like the reblog from hotaurea make me so mad because the world and institutions are not black and white. The world, people, and the things we create like institutions have both good and bad and most everybody exists in gray. That’s just a fact.

I agree with the OP. No institution is perfect and evolve. Wilhelm could have been the lynchpin to help his institution evolve. Because, believe it or not, the monarchy does do some good. First, hotaurea is right in a way., Anybody can advocate for issues and charities but the monarchy has something you and I don’t. A platform. Their tags about correctly exposing that particular part as ‘bullshit’ is quite literally wrong. Every royal has a cause. Whatever you think of King Charles of England, he has for years been a champion of the environment, highlighting farmers and natural causes. Do you honestly think that the reporters and press would give a shit if he didn’t show up. Same with Queen Camilla of England. She champions and works quite a lot with domestic abuse charities. Prince William, Princess Catherine, and Prince Harry all constantly give attention to mental health issues. And Prince Harry has his veterans work. Now, we all can go and help each of these very important issues but our impact is going to be nil to theirs. Why? The same reason everyone demands celebrities speak up about issues. Platform. People listen. Now we can have a debate on ‘worthiness’ certainly. That’s a fair debate. But the truth of the matter is as the royal family, they have the reach and the interest from the press to bring more attention to the issue. Please no not negate that impact.

As for the ‘homophobic’ accusation, tell me you’ve never done actual research on the monarchy, any monarchy. I can name FIVE LGBTQIA+ monarchs or members of their family right off the top of my head:

Queen Anne of Great Britain (1700s)

Philippe I, Duke of Orleans, brother of King Louis XIV (a known cross dresser as well, actually openly wore women’s clothing at Versailles)

Edward II of England

Ludwig II of Bavaria

And my personal fav:

James VI of Scotland and I of England.

James is a particular favorite because the man was at least bi-sexual and literally commissioned the fucking King James Bible. You know, the one that all the homophobes use as “proof” of homosexuality being a sin. Pull that out at your next party/family gathering. I love seeing people’s expressions when they learn that.

Anyway, if you think monarchies are homophobic, you have no idea of the history. Y’all, historically, royals are fucking wild. Many straight monarchs actually had lovers both male and female. Some did marry and have children while others never did. But here’s my point, they NEVER hid them. These affairs or favorites were paraded with pride throughout courts. Lovers were given prominent roles in households, on councils, were advisors. It is a very modern assumption or concept really that monarchies must be straight and private. Did some hide them, yes. But go back through history and you’ll find countless stories of favorites being paraded around in from of wives, husbands, and courts. And by repeating that concept, you’re propogating conservative rhetoric is trying to hide LGBTQIA+ history. It’s that simple. And let’s not even talk about sex parties and the actual proclavities of some of these royals. Seriously, look them up. You’ll find out the true meaning of truth is stranger than fiction.

Now we can have debates over finances (reminder royals are not actual leeching off of citizens. They do have their own inheritance wealth, as well as I believe real estate is a big one. Again, the origin of the that is certainly cause for criticism but they’re not getting paid by your taxes) and actual worthiness as hotaurea put it but can we please have a non-extremist discussion on monarchy. It’s not either/or. There are good sides and bad sides to it, even in modern times. Actually, I would say modern monarchies are actually more relevant than their colonizer and blood thirsty ancestors. Modern monarch/royals devote their lives to charities and causes. They have no say in most governments and are definitely not sending troops out to war. But I digress.

Anyway, this is getting too long. I just wanted to point out the flaws in hotaurea’s little rant and add that OP was right. Wille could have been the son of a CEO of a big corporation and the story wouldn’t have changed one bit. It made his decision less impactful because we are never shown the actual struggle Wille could have had. Because you will never convince me, a good PR person would not have seen the potential in Wille after his speech and would not have let him champion a LGBTQIA+ cause. Imagine if Fatima would have been like okay, but Wille chose to go the safe route? That makes Simon’s reaction and his own work more impactful in the series. He even tried to tell Wille but it was WILLE who did not want to listen. In the end, maybe if they had shown the good side of the monarchy, it would have made Wille’s decision even more impactful instead of it looking selfish and impulsive. Or he could have stayed and shown what having a platform for good actually is but OP is right. And believe it or not, there is such a thing as IVF where Wille could have had a biological child. Shocking I know. Or a surrogate. Stop ignoring these possibilities.

Lisa was too stuck on the same rhetoric above instead of creating an institution that would have been nuanced and more realistic instead of a one-dimensional villain twirling their mustache.

[resipsaloquitace]

While I don't agree with everything OP and the historian say, I wanted to post this because I do so appreciate how they approach the issue like adults capable of having a civil conversation and informed debate rather than just spouting insults at those who have a different viewpoint.

Young Royals always had a viewpoint and message about the monarchy. However, the potential power and impact of that message was, in my opinion, severely undermined in S3 by heavy-handedness and utter lack of nuance. The show stopped being an exploration of how institutions can harm the very people who comprise and/or support those institutions, and instead became a lecture that the "monarchy = irredeemably bad" viewpoint is the only correct one. And yet still didn't have the conviction to take that viewpoint to its culmination and show the downfall of the institution it's lecturing about.

[emberc]

As an antimonarchist, I did not really like how they villainized The Royal Family and The Royal Court only to make it "let him go" in the very last minutes of the last episode. Seriously?!

As the historian OP said, it is not black or white. Drama for drama's sake is what I am mad about. S3 writing lacked a lot for the sake of creating drama.

Edit: And this is the Swedish monarchy we are talking about. They will not use Wilmon relationship to show how they support queer people? No way. Farima said "Creating new royalists" and I was excited about that storyline. But they abandoned it altogether. I was like "did you just ignore the line you put there?..."

[skamenglishsubs]

Sorry, I have to wade into this one as well. If you want to criticize monarchies or how it was handled in the show, please have your facts straight instead of making up weird arguments.

@coffeeandsadbooks No, you could not have substituted the Swedish monarchy with some corporation owned by some billionaire family, because Sweden simply doesn't have any dynasties like that, I can't think of any rich family that the general public cares about. Wallenberg? Stenbeck? Bonnier? 😴😴😴

You also wouldn't get the heir and spare dynamic, and there are plenty of very rich CEOs and owners who are openly gay, nobody cares about that. Random rich kid Wilhelm being into guys doesn't have nearly the same pull as Prince Wilhelm being into guys.

Also, the YR royal family is not in any way unrealistically small, because reality is just so much weirder. In the last 300 years the royal line in Sweden died out three times due to lack of heirs, and each time a successor was elected.

@hotarurea Modern constitutional monarchies provide their nations with a Head of State, and it does so in a predictable, long-term, apolitical way. There is certainly value in that, and it's not obvious that a political office of the President would be better or cheaper for the nation. And since popular support is strong, the actual citizens agree.

Your statement that Wilhelm can't have legitimate heirs is simply wrong, there's nothing in the constitution of Sweden that requires heirs to the throne to have been conceived in heterosexual wedlock. Adoption, surrogacy, and "bastards" are all fine according to the law. Your statement that monarchy is fundamentally incompatible with queerness is also wrong, both Sweden and the Netherlands recently stated that there is no issue with any of their royals being in same-sex relationships or marriages.

Yes, the Swedish monarchy requires monarchs to be members of the Church of Sweden, which is nominally a Lutheran Christian church. However, it's so fucking wishy-washy that they're a complete joke. They've had female priests since the 1960's, the last archbishop was a woman, they've been pro same-sex marriages for the last couple of decades, you can be trans and a priest, and you don't even have to believe in the Christian god to be a priest. No-one cares about the church, and everyone assumes that the royals are only culturally Christian, like the majority of the population is.

@myshadesofwrong Keep up the good work!

In Swedish history, I can name three queer monarchs: Queen Kristina, King Gustaf III, and King Gustaf V. I don't think any of them were as flamboyantly queer as the British ones, but we had our fair share of them, and it's quite possible that Gustaf III wasn't the biological father of his kids. Whoops.

@resipsaloquitace, @emberc I would also have loved for the show to go for Queer King Wilhelm and showing how a reformation could look like, and the show absolutely dropped those threads too easily.

However, Wilhelm never liked being in the spotlight from the very first second of the show, so it's definitely in line with his character. He could have changed, but he didn't. I also think Straight Wilhelm would have made the same choice, but maybe a bit later, and Spare Wilhelm would have happily let Erik do all the royal duty shit, while he chilled out in the background.

I'm also seeing the discussion in the comments about how parents would react to bullying at Hillerska. Let me remind you all of the Herlufsholm scandal in Denmark a couple of years ago. Three students were expelled for physical assault of another student, and the school said it went against the school's values bla bla bla. However, the parents of those kids then openly argued that the expulsion was bullshit because the prefect system and peer upbringing and abuse is a part of the schools' culture! They said the quiet part out loud.

Assume that the vast majority of the parents who send kids to schools like this are sociopathic assholes. Vincent makes this point in S3E5, and he is right.

[silvagrey]

Swedes & royalties

Hi! Maybe this is a bit of an unnecessary rant, but I wanted to get this across.

Let me start with saying that privacy is a highly valued thing in Sweden (and in Finland). There was this joke during Covid; "Thank god when Covid is over and we can skip the recommend 2 meter distance and go back to our normal 5 meter distance."

This also applies to royalties. The majority of Swedes have a "I don't give a sh**" attitude. There are of course true royalists/monarchists, as well as a republican organisation. But the only party (out of 8 in the parliament) that directly promotes switching to Republic is the left wing party Vänsterpartiet. So as I said most Swedes don't care at all on a daily basis, mainly happy to (perhaps) watch their gala outfits during the yearly televised Nobel festivities.

And this brings me to the actual rant part. Because, contrary to a lot of fic:s and post:s, Simon (and others) have probably NOT watched Wille on TV a lot during their upbringing (that is if the YR world is similar to real Sweden). First of all, how many teenagers nowadays actually watch telly??? Anyone? Well, they do watch the Eurovision stuff in Sweden, but apart from that? Secondly, and more important, you have to actively go looking to find a glimpse of any royalties on telly. You can easy avoid the occasional wedding, baptism or funeral as they are usually years apart. And very few under the age of 50 watches the annual "The year with the royal family". And even those how follow their Insta accounts, would rarely admit to that.

You might spot the king and queen occasionally in the news, when he is acting as Head of State, like when Macon recently visited Sweden. But the emphasis in the news would be on the political agreements, not any royal stuff.

You should also know that the gossip press (and similar on-line sites) are far less rabid than e.g. their British counterparts. Although there are a few pretty awful ones here as well.

Ok, that's it for now. Wishing you all a happy Wilmon month 💜.

[sflow-er]

^Such great points! I feel like some international fans who are less familiar with Sweden (and the Nordics in general) may relate the royal family in YR to the British royal family - which is very understandable, but not a good point of comparison at all. There's a world of difference in how they are viewed by the public and treated by the media. So that's good to keep in mind as we gear up to watch Wilmon as boyfriends in the final season.

On a side note, I also want to highlight again that "The year with the royal family" is an annual TV program. Wille's speech may have made broken containment and ended up online as people started recording it on their phones, but it won't have been broadcast live on TV.

[sflow-er]

S2 Walty snippets series [complete]

With the final season of Young Royals almost upon us, I've been taking stock of my fics and decided to scrap the second chapter to Like you better. There is always a chance of me returning to it someday, but I don't think it really brings anything new to the fic.

That means my little series of S2-compliant Walty fics is complete, and since I never made a proper series post, here's some shameless self-promo (ft. comment quotes):

Sflow's S2 Walty snippets

S2-compliant Henry or Walty fics. The first two are consistent with each other, the last one is separate. Any of them can easily be read as a standalone. Henry is ace as always in my fics, but the depiction of his asexuality and the nature of his relationship to Walter varies.

Bright ideas: ~5k, T, platonic Walty "I love how no matter how short this little one-shot is, it still has a complete narrative structure (--) I giggled from start to finish"

Henry's motivation for rowing has been on a downward spiral all winter. He gets a little lost inside his head trying to avoid punishment for being late, until Walter tells him to get home for something exciting. Cue an awkward walk-by when Wilmon are trying to have an important talk, some related thoughts, a discussion with Walter, and an invitation for Wille to join some ridiculous shenanigans.

OR: A missing moment/scene expansion for s2ep2 (written for YR week 2023) that shows us what Henry was up to before, during and after the locker room scene. My attempt at crack.

Like you better: ~2k, T, queerplatonic OR romantic Walty "I didn't know I needed queerplatonic fanfics that much. It makes me so happy!"

After the masquerade ball, Walter comes home to Henry, who is newly recovered from a migraine attack. A bit of talk about girls, their friendship, and Henry's recent revelation of his asexuality ensues. Along with some cuddles.

OR: A super fluffy missing moment between Walty at the end of s2ep4. Can be read as either queerplatonic or romantic, your choice!

Last chance: ~7k, T, romantic Walty Not consistent with the other parts of the series! "beautifully crafted (--) second chapter was amazing and gentle and like being hugged through my phone screen"

As Henry and Walter's friendship takes a romantic turn, Henry decides to take the last chance to come out to his best friend before everything changes.

OR: A first kiss + coming out/ace talk + getting together fic set after S2 (written for Ace Awareness Week 2023). Contains discussion of past acephobia, previous sexual experience (not very specific), and aversions (French kissing specifically mentioned, the rest are up to the reader's interpretation). A more sex-favourable take on ace Henry than my other fics (sex doesn't happen in the fic, though). Also, Walter is explicitly gay in this one.

[sflow-er]

YR Season 3 speculations: a layperson’s take on the criminal justice side

I’ve been considering making this kind of post for a while, because I’ve seen a lot of hopeful takes on how things are going to play out now that Sara has called the police, and I feel like I could add some perspective for those less familiar with the Swedish justice system. I hesitate to do it because I’m just a layperson and not even from Sweden but the next country over - but our justice systems are reasonably similar, I’ve spent a lot of time poring over relevant sources on Swedish law and justice, and @scatteredpiecesofme encouraged me to do this after our conversation yesterday.

So, here goes, haha.

As usual, I could very well be wrong about some things, and I welcome any additions or corrections!

Keep reading

[sflow-er]

To August anon 2

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply! I don't know if you'll even see this as I've decided not to risk the backlash of putting it on the main tag, but I hope you do.

[Earlier posts: August anon 1, August anon 2]

I want to curate the discussion a bit now that you've shifted part of the focus on Sara. I don't share your position of liking both her and August for being 'morally dark' people, and I fear it may be a bit jarring to any Sara fans reading this. So I've decided to screenshot your message and put it under the cut instead of replying directly.

We disagree on some fundamental things when it comes to August's and especially Sara's characterisation, and I doubt we're going to reach consensus. But that's okay! I'm just going to explain some parts of my POV below, and then we can agree to disagree. There are also a few areas where we seem to be getting our wires crossed (e.g. what we mean by 'understanding' the consequences) so I want to clear those up.

Most of this rambling essay was written before the S3 trailer came out, so I'm not focusing much on the glimpses we see of them in the trailer. But I am still using the spoiler tags just to be safe.

CW: negative take on Sara (but the anon actually likes her); couple of suicide mentions

Okay so... I'm going to start by clarifying a couple of things:

Understanding vs. understanding

Infantilising vs. taking young age into account

When I talk about August and the consequences, I'm not saying he lacks the intellect or analytical thinking to know/predict them. I'm saying he lacks the empathy and relevant frames of reference to understand them. I think we're just using the word 'understand' to mean different things - maybe internalise, empathise or relate would be a better choice for what I mean by it?

To revisit my previous example, August as an incredibly privileged member of the elite cannot understand i.e. relate to Simon's experience as someone whose ability to make his own reputation and get by on his own merit has been permanently affected by the video. As a very confidently straight man, he also cannot relate to Wille's experience as someone whose non-straight sexuality, a deeply personal and private thing that he wasn't even done figuring out, has suddenly been exposed to the world and potentially even some homophobic hate.

I'm not saying this to infantilise, defend, or excuse August. I'm saying it because to me, it partly explains why it's so easy for him to dismiss the harm to Simon and see his betrayal of Wille as just a matter of loyalty - the only moral code he knows - instead of something that would've been wrong no matter who the victim was. It's a thought pattern that stems from his upbringing and worldview, and it would have to be dismantled for him to feel proper remorse. Which I think would probably take professional help at this point.

(I agree with you that August would be extremely prejudiced against Boris. A glimpse of him googling therapy providers or booking an appointment for after graduation might feel more realistic to me - but I guess it depends on what the writers want to do with him. We already saw very quick progress with Wille in S2 so it's safe to say they can take some liberties.)

I still believe that August will lose his social status in S3, likely towards the end. But it's fair that you don't, and the trailer is certainly edited to support your position. If he retains his status, then you may be right about him remaining the same old asshole! If he does lose it, then my original point about him likely not being resilient enough to cope with the consequences still stands. He is very much the kind of person to whom suicide is the "proud" way out compared to the shame of losing everything.

Now, the age thing.

Respectfully, I think you may be ascribing too much meaning to August and Sara being of age in S2 (note that Sara was still 17 when she made her worst decision and made the deal with August in S1). Eighteen is the age of legal adulthood, yes, but it doesn't make them fully grown and mature adults in the (neuro)biological, psychological or social sense.

[This feels like a good point to say that I am not going to try to account for Sara's neurodivergence here. I definitely don't have the insight, so if anything I've written below is in any way inaccurate or offensive to persons with AuDHD, please let me know!!]

Firstly, it's important to note that that the human brain matures gradually and unevenly. The prefrontal cortex i.e. the 'reasoning centre' only matures in the mid-to-late 20s, while parts that handle things like right/wrong, risk/reward, and emotional responses (e.g. the amygdala) mature earlier. This can cause teens and young adults to struggle with things like impulse control, assessing the long-term consequences of their actions, understanding others' emotions, and rational decision-making in situations that trigger a strong emotional response. Reason can get overtaken by emotion on a chemical level; sometimes the young person can't even fully explain afterwards why they did something they rationally knew was wrong all along.

[I don't think August was in a particularly analytical state of mind when he decided to post the video. He was an intelligent but emotionally unstable and empathically challenged 18-year-old who felt like he had nothing left to lose and the only moral code he knew (i.e. loyalty) was obsolete. He was also still stewing in the emotional turmoil of his humiliation and likely stuck in a negative feedback loop. It feels very plausible to me that he could be in a very bad place for a pretty long time and still function enough to plan his revenge (more on the revenge part below).]

Secondly, both August and Sara have also had some pretty traumatic experiences (Sara's bullying, August's dad's suicide, the influence of both their dads while they were still in their lives). These may have impacted their emotional and psychological development in various ways and created some thought patterns. Not to play arm-chair psychologist, but I don't think it's a coincidence August's decision to post the video is related to his family estate and legacy, while Sara's decision to make a deal with August is related to the threat of being sent back to Marieberg.

[This feels particularly relevant for Sara, whose bullying was brutal and long-term enough for her to have to repeat a year. The negative attention on Simon after the video probably seemed less severe in comparison, and also like a 'first incident' (in fact, she might have even felt like Linda was applying a different standard to Simon's ordeal compared to hers by immediately wanting to take them both out of Hillerska).]

[I vehemently disagree with Sara's idea that the damage to Simon was already done and it wouldn't have made a difference whether he knew who was responsible, but I think it matters to some extent that she didn't know the history between Simon and August. To her, the video probably seemed like something that was mostly between August and Wille. That idea was likely reinforced by August consistently dismissing Simon's side of it - and also by Simon seemingly moving on with Marcus and no longer being the talk of the school after Christmas. This kind of rationalisation may have even made Sara feel better about pursuing a relationship with August in S2.]

[I also think Sara probably felt like she had the right to be selfish after everything she'd been through. Simon's support during her bullying wasn't conditional; she didn't feel like she "owed him" any sacrifices. It was clearly Simon's idea to follow Sara to Hillerska, and she may have even felt like he was hovering a bit (I doubt S1E1 was her first time saying she was fine now and he didn't have to be there). Then, Simon started to keep secrets and even see Micke for reasons Sara didn't know, altering the terms of their relationship, while Sara was finally daring to dream of things she'd been denied for so long. Friends, a better future, even romance. To her, it felt extremely unfair to have to give all that up and go back to a school that was a nightmare to her but not to Simon. Especially when her and Simon's lives weren't as intertwined anymore and she finally felt like she was gaining some agency in her own.]

Thirdly (circling back to the point about maturity), it's good to keep in mind that both August and Sara are still in the high-school phase of life. A phase when most people are a bit selfish, and their past and current dramas and dreams for the future are everything to them. They haven't really acquired much experience or long-term perspective yet. So I really don't think we can call them that much more mature in the social sense than, say, Wilhelm and Simon. They are still messy teens living their messy teen lives, shaped by their upbringing and limited life experience, all the while thinking they are basically grown adults.

So am I saying all this to infantilise August and Sara and excuse their actions? I'm sure it sounds that way; hence, not putting this on the main tag.

But the way I see it, to infantilise them would be to say they weren't responsible for their actions or didn't know what they're doing. They are responsible, and they do know. All the factors laid out above (and also in my previous August posts) explain their reasoning and actions to some extent, but they do not excuse them. The fact still remains that they both applied their best judgment and deliberately chose to do the thing that they knew was wrong.

You're right that they took time to consider their decisions in S1, although I don't think we can know for sure exactly how long August takes. The timeline is a mess at that point; he is still at the Palace wearing the same outfit when the others make their statement, and I doubt he could've been there overnight. But he does take several hours in any case, and although he isn't thinking rationally at that point, he still knows what he's doing is wrong. In fact, he does it with the sole intention of hurting others, which makes it all the more reprehensible.

I just want to caution against labelling him as some evil, fundamentally unfeeling mastermind. He's just a very selfish and immature young man with a very warped view of the world, who needs to see some consequences for his own sake as much as his victims'. I think part of the reason we saw him turn so soft with Sara in S2 was to underline that he is capable of empathy and caring; it's just a matter of unlocking those emotions. They haven't exactly been nurtured growing up, so he is only applying them to the people he deems "worthy", instead of all his fellow human beings. That selective empathy is another thing he seriously needs to work on, alongside the lack of accountability.

As for Sara, she takes several days to consider what to do about the video, which makes her betrayal of Simon more severe. But as explained above, it's so much more nuanced than her not caring about him. (Or indeed her being some poor victim who didn't know what she was doing and fell in love with The Devil! Don't get me wrong, August definitely let her believe she was guiding him in a better direction, which may have even pushed some Micke buttons in her subconscious and/or memories of Simon's insistence that everyone deserves a second chance... But she still made her own decisions and is responsible for them.)

It's easy to forget that we do in fact see Sara aware that her actions are wrong even before the end of S2. She looks conflicted/unsure when she and August make out in S1E6, cries when Simon earnestly proclaims "I like you when you are you" and "I'm trying to be your friend again because I need you" after she has just betrayed him, and again looks conflicted when the siblings talk about loving the "wrong person" in S2E5. She did some very selfish things and hid them for much too long, yes, but I believe her regret is genuine. It will take some skilful writing to make her and Simon reconcile in a way that makes sense, doesn't feel rushed or reduce her to an archetype, and doesn't just magic away her leftover feelings for August (as those will probably take some time to clear out). But I do have faith it can be done.

So I think that just about covers what I wanted to say. This isn't a comprehensive essay by any means, and I'm sure it won't go down well with everyone. I also don't expect it to change your mind about these characters, anon, and that's okay!

I mostly just wanted to push back on the notion that Sara and August being 18 means all their bad decisions are now on par with bad decisions taken by fully grown adults and their character development is now set in stone. I highly doubt the show will end with them both proudly standing behind their poor choices - I can certainly see August doing that if he doesn't see any repercussions, but not Sara.

In any case, thank you for taking the time to explain your point of view on these characters, and sorry again for taking so long to respond!

[bluedalahorse]

Hello, fanfic-writing tumblr friends! Here’s a prompt for you today:

Tell me about a fic where you subverted a trope in an interesting way, wrote about something less popular in your fandom, or otherwise challenged the normal conventions of fanfic writing.

You get to decide what counts as subversive, unpopular, or unconventional. I just want to hear a little bit of what your writing experience was like and how people responded.

[sflow-er]

Changed my mind and decided to take the prompt even though you already know all this, @bluedalahorse!

My writing isn't particularly subversive or unconventional, but I guess what I did with Henry (and Walter) in OPS was as a little outside the norm. So maybe writing about it will lower the bar for others to share their own experiences! :)

As you and most of the people who follow me know, my longfic OPS was the first Walty fic (even the ship name was made up by my readers two years ago). They weren't a thing yet when I started writing it, back in July/August 2021. There was one anonymous fic consisting of two one-shots, and that was it. So I had a lot of wiggle room to do whatever I wanted with them, and a pretty big platform to do it on.

I had multiple reasons for making Henry ace, both personal and story reasons, but I didn't set out to write ace rep as such. It simply made sense and felt meaningful to me personally, and from a story perspective, it enabled me to write a ship dynamic that I could sort of contrast with Wilmon. One with plenty of love, affection, and non-sexual intimacy, but no romantic attraction for a very long time - and no sexual attraction on Henry's side even when romance did come into the picture.

My original plan was to write two fics: a canon expansion part and a post-S1 part. The first fic would stay platonic, and the events and experiences in that fic would build the basis for romance in the second fic. In the end, I kept the parts together, but the basic structure survived. The fic ended up being about 240k, with Henry's asexuality spelled out at the 100k mark. From there, it took another 50k for the shift towards romance to become obvious and (mild spoiler alert) yet another 50k for anything to happen between them.

I've been asked before why I wrote a romance at all; the answer is that I wanted Henry to discover himself as fully as possible. The only way to resolve the insecurities I had given him on the romance front was to give him a love interest, and due to the nature of said insecurities, it could only be his best friend. (So, contrary to popular assumption, the Walty ship did not in fact start with people just shipping two random good-looking background characters!)

Still, I definitely kept the door open to just keep them a very close and affectionate (potentially queerplatonic) pair of best friends. I wasn't sure if I could bring myself to spell out the A word, and I wasn't going to write a romance without making sure people wouldn't read sexual attraction into it. Even after I wrote that chapter, I reserved the right to back away if it was received badly. I remember I only slept two, three hours on the night when I posted it, terrified of the potential backlash.

Happily enough, the reception was overwhelmingly positive. I never got even a single comment saying it didn't make sense or the ship was ruined. I remember a few commenters were a bit baffled and/or didn't think it would work in canon, but they still found it an interesting take in fic. The overwhelming majority were really touched by the coming-out scene, whether they just loved it for the characters or related to it in some way.

In other words, my readers remained just as invested in the story and characters. They adjusted their expectations for the ship accordingly (no more comments about "sexual tension" between the two!), which allowed me to tell the story to its intended conclusion. People were a lot more open to the idea of an ace/allo ship than I had expected, even if some of them did wonder how things would turn out in the long run.

Several people also reached out to tell me that reading my fic(s) helped them discover their own place on the ace spectrum, which was overwhelming in the best possible way. I didn't expect a humble story on the internet, about obscure side characters and in a relatively small fandom, to make that kind of difference to anyone. That has easily been my biggest takeaway from my time as a fan of YR and will keep inspiring me long into the future.

But to bring this back to fandom, I do think I benefited a lot from the fact that I started writing Henry and Walter so early on. There wasn't much canon or any fanon for me to contradict yet, and I suspect even many people who might not have chosen a super-slow-burn friends-to-lovers fic with an ace POV character if there were more fics out there at least gave it a shot. Thanks to that fortuitous timing, my readers and I were able to connect over something that maybe went a little against the grain - and I think we all got something really positive out of it.

[raincitygirl76]

Query for real live Swedes,

I have been told that the Swedish school year starts in late August and ends at some point in June. I also know that there are 3 vacation periods between December and June.

Christmas Break, self-explanatory.

Sports Break, 1 week, usually in mid to late February.

Easter Break, 1 week, around Easter.

Here’s my question. Is there also another vacation from school in the period between late August and Christmas break?

Thank you for your time and expertise.

[sflow-er]

I'm not Swedish but can answer this (we have a similar system in my own country and I've also looked into this for fic purposes):

Autumn break, 1 week at the turn of October/November.

Note that weeks are counted from Monday to Sunday, not from Sunday to Saturday. So this year, autumn break was from Monday 30 Oct to Sunday 5 Nov. In 2020 when YRS1 is set, it was Mon 26 Oct to Sunday 1 Nov (which affects the timeline for Erik's funeral, as the students would not be watching it at Hillerska if it fell between Saturday 24 and Sunday 1 Nov).

The exact timing of the sports and autumn breaks is determined by week numbers, which aren't used in many countries but are in the Nordics. Week 1 is the first week in which at least 4 days belong to the new year, which means the last week of the year is either 52 or 53 dependign on the year.

Autumn break is week 44 everywhere in Sweden, while the timing of sports break varies depending on location. Here's a map from 2022:

In 2021 when YR S2 is set, these weeks were timed as follows (Monday to Sunday again):

Week 7: 15 to 21 February

Week 8: 22 to 28 February

Week 9: 1 to 7 March

Week 10: 8 to 14 March

Since Hillerska didn't have their sports break yet in the show, it has to be in week 9. This means it's either located in one of the areas you see on the map that have week 9 - or they've chosen it themselves, because charter schools (friskolor) like Hillerska do have some leeway compared to municipal schools like Marieberg.

[sflow-er]

I keep seeing discussion on the "Wilhelm washes his hands" scene in S1E3 on my dash, and I need to jot down my thoughts, because I see it a bit differently.

Cut for CW (see tags)

The general consensus seems to be that Wilhelm got off to Simon's pictures off screen, and I don't mind that interpretation at all. However, I think it makes just as much narrative sense that the scene is about him trying really hard to resist the urge to do so.

I don't disagree that we see Wilhelm restless in bed because he's so horny for Simon. I'd say that's indisputable based on the glimpse we get of his hand, as well as the fact that it's physically hard to sleep when you're worked up for any reason. Arousal is one such reason, and I can imagine it doesn't help that it's all directed at a specific person. I also don't doubt that he has sex dreams about Simon when he does manage to fall sleep.

Still, this is a point of the story where Wilhelm is actively trying and failing not to "be like that." It's easier by day, but he still can't help sneaking looks at Simon in class, and at night, he keeps going back to Simon's Insta. He definitely wants to get off to those pictures in the scene we see - but it also looks as if he's just about to get up when the camera cuts to him stepping out the door. To me, that always read more like taking a timeout and trying to reset/distract himself. (Who hasn't got up and gone to the bathroom just to stop the flow of thoughts after lying awake for an indeterminate amount of time, for whatever reason?)

Alas, he immediately stumbles onto a straight couple kissing goodbye after a hookup, and his mind flies to Simon again. This is the final push, and by the time he's done his business and looks at himself in the bathroom mirror, he has admitted to himself that he really is like that.

Again, I don't mind if I'm the only one who sees the scene like this, and I don't deny that the general consensus makes sense too. I just needed to write down my own thoughts.

[starvalisedham]

Edvin's Family Tree: How He's Connected to Nobility and Why I'm About to Throw Hands with the Young Royals Casting Directors

I had some free time to do a master post 👉👈 don't come @ me though because this was literally a passion project and it brought me so much joy. Bear with, this is a looong post!

So... why did you look into Edvin's family tree?

This is all because an anon from the confessions blog said they thought Edvin Ryding had "aristocratic beauty" and that "he really looks like a modern prince", which made me remember a post floating around this hellsite talking about an interview where Edvin admitted to have a noble grandmother. With that in mind, I then went on a Wikipedia deep dive and, frankly, I haven't been the same since.

What did you find out?

Well, firstly, I found out that Edvin's English Wikipedia page tells us fuck all about his family (which isn't a problem because I'm all for actors and celebrities keeping their private and public lives separate, but it did stump me on my search for his noble grandmother). So I switched the page to Swedish and took my research from there. Turns out, not only is Edvin related to nobility once through his maternal grandmother, he's related to nobility six fucking times.

Wait, whaaaat?

Yup! Here's the family tree I made illustrating his noble ancestors. The ones with glowing auras are the ones that come from aristocratic families, mainly:

his maternal grandmother Cecilia Munck af Rosenschöld

his great-great-great-grandmother Amalia Mathilda Lovisa af Petersens

her mother Carolina Amalia Odencrantz

Edvin's other great-great-great-grandmother Eva Charlotta Lewenhaupt,

her mother Charlotta Elisabet von Essen, and

Eva Charlotta's paternal grandmother, who is from the Cronstedt family.

Sounds fishy... are you sure?

Wikipedia isn't a hundred percent accurate, you're right to be hesitant, and admittedly I used translator tools to parse my way through the Swedish-only pages. However, a person's key information on their box profile could be fairly uniform once you're used to it and searching for relatives and the person they married got a bit same-y by the time I reached the third or fourth generation away from Edvin.

Here are some key Swedish words related to family and marriage, which helped a lot when I was scanning for information to translate:

föräldrar – parents

släktingar – relatives

barn – children

maka – wife

gift till – married to

Also, Swedish is a Category 1 language for English speakers because they share a lot of cognates, so family words like son, dotter, mor, and far were easy enough to guess. Dotterson means your daughter's son. Farfar means paternal grandfather and morfar is maternal grandmother. Gift means married, while ogift is unmarried.

This is awesome! Can you tell me more about Edvin's family?

Sure thing, buckaroo. I hope you're settled in with a beverage of your choice because here are the long posts/discussions I've had with people in the fandom about each branch of Edvin's family tree. It was like every time we unearthed a titled relative, another one crops up!

My initial post responding to Confessions Anon about how appropriate their use of "aristocratic beauty" was for Edvin, detailing his link to Eva Charlotta Lewenhaupt.

An anon asking about the Wersäll family connection to the Ryding family and how I spotted that a Gustaf Ryding married Amalia Mathilda Lovisa af Petersens.

A fairly detailed discussion about Swedish naming customs and how it's possible for Edvin to have his maternal grandfather's last name, where never before in my life have I tripped so carelessly due to my preconceptions... thank you, ethnocentrism!

Anon pointing out to me that Edvin mentioned a noble grandmother in an interview once (the specific details of which I've forgotten until then, oops!).

The discovery that there is an Annie Rudberg who married into the Ryding family back in the early 1900s.

RUDBERG?! Am I reading that right?

That's not a trick! Of course, we can't possibly confirm that Annie Rudberg is related to the Omar Rudberg that we know and love. I do not want to look into Omar's stepfather's family tree because that is his right as a private citizen and also the accomplishments of people who are still alive bore me.

The only reason I looked into Edvin's family tree is because they're all prominent members of Swedish society – journalists and diplomats and military personnel – so they were in the public eye anyway. Their births and marriages and deaths were a matter of public record.

But speaking of public records... Wikipedia tells us that Annie Rudberg had a brother called Fritz Erik Rudberg (1891 – 1959). I followed the little footnotes at the end of the article and got led to an online census database, where I found Erik's parents (the ones he shares with Annie). Unfortunately, the latest dated census entry noted that Fritz Erik Rudberg was unmarried, so there weren't any links to any modern day Rudberg family members that we can look into.

The census database also tells us that Annie Rudberg's mother changed her name from Elsa Löf (possibly Elsa Wilhelmina Löf) to Elsa Löf Rudberg between her birth and her death, so we can assume she changed it when she married her husband, Fritz Adam Rudberg (1841 – 1904).

Okay, this is all interesting... but you said Edvin's related to six noble families. You've only explained three so far.

Patience, young padawan. The footnotes on Gustaf Ryding's Wikipedia page led me to the Klinteberg Genealogy Archive and from there, I followed his wife's line up to her parents, which led me to Carolina Amalia Odencrantz. The Odencrantz are another noble family... so that adds up our tally to four.

As an aside, I fucked around in those archives for a while and found the Gother branch of the family. This was way back when Sweden used a patronymic naming system, which was why we have Bengtsson and Bengtsdotter in these set of names.

Moving on, this led me to search up Eva Charlotta Lewenhaupt again, and I saw that her paternal grandfather (farfar) married twice:

Gift 1: 9 september 1824 med friherrinnan Ottiliana Henrietta Cronstedt. Gift 2: 10 maj 1840 med friherrinnan Eva Augusta Cronstedt. // Married 1st: 9 September 1824 to Baroness Ottiliana Henrietta Cronstedt. Married 2nd: 10 May 1840 to Baroness Eva Augusta Cronstedt. [Wikipedia]

I can't tell you how those two wives of his were related, but given that they have the same last name and that they're both baronesses... maybe they're sisters? Or first cousins? They're not in the family tree diagram because I didn't know how to illustrate a second wife connection, nor was I sure which wife was Eva Charlotta's paternal grandmother.

Anyway, since the Cronstedt family are titled, our Edvin Ryding family tree of noble connections are now at the wholesome number five. To bump that up to six, we have Eva Charlotta's mother, who was Baroness Charlotta Elisabet von Essen:

Charlotta föddes som grevinna Lewenhaupt och var dotter till greve Carl Gustaf Lewenhaupt (1825–1863), och friherrinnan Charlotta Elisabet von Essen (1827–1895). // Charlotta was born Countess Lewenhaupt and was the daughter of Count Carl Gustaf Lewenhaupt (1825–1863), and Baroness Charlotta Elisabet von Essen (1827–1895). [Wikipedia]

Six families in the aristocracy. Lars Edvin Folke Ryding can link himself to six noble families at least – and I'm saying "at least" here because for sure, given how noble families work and the examples detailed above, they all pretty much inter-marry and there are bound to be other titled ancestors if you go higher up the tree.

Interesting stuff. What now?

I don't know, you guys. Do with this information what you will. Double-check the sources for yourself and make sure I haven't made all these names up, or that Person X is actually the Person X that married Person Y and not just another person who shared the same name.

This was, in effect, a fun activity for me. Even if I'm incorrect somewhere, I must say that I've had a whale of a time and learned some Swedish vocabulary doing all this. That's totally a win in my books.

[raincitygirl76]

I actually read that entire long post, and clicked on some of the links. Honestly I don’t care particularly about Edvin’s family tree, other than the fact it’s hilarious he got cast as royalty. But on a meta level, the part about how he has his maternal grandfather’s last name was super interesting.

One thing that does confuse me is Eva Charlotta Lewenhaupt’s paternal grandmother situation. Not which of her grandfather’s Cronstedt wives were her grandmother. Although it’s deeply weird that he married two different women who were both Cronstedts and both baronesses. So clearly fairly closely related.

But the fact that Eva’s grandfather’s first wife and second wife are both listed as Baroness. The UK system is the only aristocracy I have any familiarity with. Thank you, Georgette Heyer and your Regency romances I read obsessively as a teenager! In the UK, you’re only a baroness if you are married to a baron. It seems like in Sweden, both the candidates for Eva’s grandmother were baronesses in their own right. How does that work?

Were both these women called Baroness because their father was a baron? That’s not how the UK system works, but I’m just speculating here. Also, what title, if any, do younger sons get in Swedish noble families? Assuming my speculation is correct and daughters of barons get to call themselves baroness.

Again, in the UK system, younger sons of nobles do not get the main title. The younger sons of barons, viscounts and earls are styled “The Honourable Mr Aristocratic-Inbreeding”. The younger sons of marquesses and dukes are styled “Lord First Name”.

I did try to look this up myself before throwing myself on the wisdom of Tumblr, but English Wikipedia wasn’t much help. I could’ve gone to Swedish Wikipedia and used Deepl to translate it, but I figured it would probably be faster to ask actual Swedes.

Also, Edvin isn’t the only one with a distinguished family tree, although mine is distinguished in a totally different way. I am descended from William Kett, who got himself hanged for treason in 1549 after helping his brother Robert Kett lead a peasants rebellion in Norfolk. Robert was also hanged, as the ringleader.

I’m rather proud of having William Kett as a many times great-grandfather and Robert Kett as a many times great-uncle. The rebellion was in response to the enclosure movement, which led to widespread suffering and even starvation amongst the peasantry. Robert and William Kett were yeoman farmers, men of property, not peasants themselves. Most yeoman farmers at the time sided with the nobles who were doing the enclosing, not the peasants.

Robert and William didn’t have skin in the game, they took a stand on principle. They died for it, but they did try to stop injustice.

Kett's Rebellion - Wikipedia

Kett's Rebellion - Wikipedia

Enclosure - Wikipedia

Enclosure - Wikipedia

Sorry, that got random towards the end.

[starvalisedham]

Okay, so – interesting points! Love this reply so much.

I'm obviously not from Sweden but I know about Swedish noble titles (sort of) because I did some surface-level research for a one-shot fic I wrote last week. We know they have dukes because August is one in the show, but also they don't seem to have any titles of nobility other than what equates to counts and barons.

A friherre, the title equivalent to a baron, is the lowest in the rung of titled nobility before you get into the group of nobles that are untitled – Sweden has like, two sets of nobility, the introduced and the unintroduced, and there's a now privately run Riddarhuset (House of Nobility) that keeps track of all that.

How these titles are passed along is so very different to the UK where titles are typically passed down via male-preference primogeniture: eldest sons to eldest sons, never mind the second-born or god forbid the daughter inherits unless there's no other option, and even then maybe there's a male cousin waiting in the wings ready to pounce.

I don't read Georgette Heyer, so I'm treating titles like inherited land because they pretty much amount to the same thing: women rarely inherit unless the law specifically states they can, by ancient decree in the deeds or whatever, or unless absolutely necessary if she's the only living heir.

In Sweden, though, the inheritance of titles is different!

Riddarhuset, som är den organisation som förvaltar svensk adel, menar att en dotter till en friherre ärver även hans adliga värdighet, men kan inte föra den vidare. Däremot så tilltalas de med fröken innan de är gifta, och de tilltalas sin makes titel som gift. Undantag regleras av originalsköldebrevet. Titeln används även av änkor efter friherrar, men får inte brukas av frånskilda ingifta kvinnor, även om de behållit sin makes familjenamn. Translation: The Riddarhuset, which is the organization that administers Swedish nobility, believes that a daughter of a Baron also inherits his noble dignity, but cannot pass it on. However, they are addressed as Miss before they are married, and they are addressed as their husband's title when married. Exceptions are governed by the original shield letter. The title is also used by widows of barons, but may not be used by divorced unmarried women, even if they have kept their husband's family name.

Riddarhuset allows the daughter of a baron (dotter till en friherre) to be called a baroness as well, so that's maybe why we get the two Cronstedt baronesses in Edvin's family tree.

The wife of a baron (friherrinna) can retain their title if they're widowed, so this could explain why the two Cronstedt baronesses are titled when they married Gustaf Lewehaupt; they might not even be biologically related at all (unlikely, but a viable theory?)

Daughters of titled nobility cannot pass their titles on to their children, which I'm guessing is why Gustaf Wersäll did not inherit his mother's title even though she was a countess in her own right from her father (Countess Eva Charlotta Wersäll, formerly af Lewenhaupt).

Now, I keep using the Swedish term for baron (friherre) because technically a baron is just an equivalent title/how it's translated into English. The term baron derives from the French while friherre derives from the German Freiherr and, according to the English Wikipedia article on that:

The inheritance of titles of nobility in most German-speaking areas was not restricted by primogeniture as is the baronial title in Britain. Hence, the titles applied equally to all male-line descendants of the original grantee in perpetuity: All legitimate sons of a Freiherr shared his title and rank, and could be referred to as Freiherr. The wife of a Freiherr is titled Freifrau (literally "free lady"), and the daughter of a Freiherr is called Freiin (short for Freiherrin). Both titles are translated in English as "Baroness".

So with that way of passing down titles, it's safe to say that a younger son also gets to be called a baron/friherre in their own right. I then looked into the Cronstedt family and how the younger sons fared; they also were barons...

Johan och Gabriel Cronstedt hade två bröder till, Jacob och Carl Cronstedt. Carl Cronstedt blev friherre 1718 och introducerades år 1719 på nummer 136. // Johan and Gabriel Cronstedt had two more brothers, Jacob and Carl Cronstedt. Carl Cronstedt became a Baron in 1718 and was introduced in 1719 at number 136. Jacob Cronstedt, nämnd ovan, upphöjdes till friherre 1719 och introducerades på nummer 151, och till greve år 1731 och introducerades på nummer 83 varmed friherrliga ätten 151 blev utgången. // Jacob Cronstedt, mentioned above, was elevated to baron in 1719 and introduced at number 151, and to count in 1731 and introduced at number 83, thus ending the baronial lineage 151.

...but it seems they were confirmed into their titles once they were introduced? This might be how the Riddarhuset comes into play with the whole introduced and unintroduced groups of nobility.

[starvalisedham]

Is this where my deepest darkest secret of only having seen the show the one time gets revealed? 😂 I have... no idea where my assumption of August being a duke came from. I may have absorbed that knowledge from other fanfics? Oh my god, that's hilarious if that turns out to be the case! @sflow-er :)

[sflow-er]

Lol @starvalisedham​ no worries about not being able to reply to comments, I only did that instead of reblogging because I didn’t want to come across as a rude rando calling you out! 😂

Anyway, if anyone else knows better, please feel free to correct me, but I think Wille and Erik are the only characters in the show who should be dukes. August should be related to Kristina through the maternal line; if Carl Johan was Kristina’s cousin, his mother must’ve been the late king’s sister. So she will have been a princess and a duchess in her own right, but noblewomen cannot pass their rank on, so Carl Johan and August will have inherited their title (count or baron, my money is on count) from the Horn af Årnäs side of the family.

Here’s a link to my own post about Swedish nobility and how it works, for reference.

[starvalisedham]

I always feel a bit unsure outright tagging people in my reblogs whenever I reply, but alas... that is my burden to bear 😂 I just hope people don't mind too much when I do.

What you said about August sounds legit enough to me; I've had the same thoughts about him just being a second cousin to Wille for a while and what that meant re: titles and stuff. I'm really baffled as to why I thought he was a duke... and I seemed so sure! #oops

Also – I've read your post just now!! I love it so much. The bit about the titled and untitled nobility confused/still low key confuses me but it's not like I'll ever need to get into too much detail with the kinds of fics I tend to write. And the modern-day implications with real life queer nobles was such an interesting read, a brilliant insight as to what the Hillerska lot might think/feel when it comes to their status as children of nobility. Thanks for linking your post 💕

[sflow-er]

Honestly, same 😂 but then, I tend to overthink reblogging a lot. I guess people probably don’t mind in general...(?)

Glad you liked the post! I agree that the titled/untitled divide is a bit confusing nowadays; it goes back to a time when titled houses were older landowning noble families and untitled houses were either less powerful or from humbler/more recently raised origins (knights, high-ranking public servants, powerful bourgeoisie, etc.), but as far as I understand, that distinction had basically disappeared by the 1700s.

I guess the closest English equivalent might be the difference between titled nobility and landed gentry. In my understanding, the latter are not considered noble as such in the English system, but they are basically the same as ‘untitled nobility’ in the Swedish system.

[sflow-er]

Some notes on the aristocracy in Sweden

I’ve decided to collect some of my research into the Swedish aristocracy into a post in case some of it could be of interest to other fanfic writers - or any other YR fans who want to learn or remind themselves how nobility works in Sweden.

I’ll start with some background info, move on to the current situation (with examples from YR), and finish with a couple of observations on names and emblems.

As always, any corrections and additions are much appreciated! I am sadly not Swedish myself, but my country was until 1809.

Keep reading

[young-royals-confessions]

none of the characters are 100% evil. they're all so complex. kristina, august, and sara especially. they're not good people, of course, but they're very interesting characters and aren't so black and white.

though, i do have to say...the way sara gets more hate than august is quite surprising. is it misogyny? possibly. i remember seeing so many posts about that -- a male character does something horrible, and people sympathize with him, whereas when a female character does something similar, everyone wants her dead. but we all know how fandoms get when you point out sexism in their community, so i'll shut up now 🤷‍♀️ maybe i'm just an annoying lesbian

(just know that i will defend sara with my life)

[bluedalahorse]

Anon, if you are defending Sara with your life, know that I am right behind you. You have my sword, my bow, AND my axe.

I think a lot of people view Sara’s actions with the full knowledge of everything going on in the show, and tend to be surprised when Sara reacts to things in a way is different from how they (the members of the audience) would react. One of the obvious examples of this is that (fictional character) Sara, as Simon’s sibling, is probably going to react differently to Simon being in love with Wilhelm than a (IRL person) fan is when they’re shipping Wilmon as a pairing. As fans, we embrace Simon’s love for Wilhelm wholeheartedly, whereas Sara—while initially happy for her brother when she realizes he has a crush—isn’t going to be invested in the Wilmon relationship on the near-religious level that we as fans can sometimes be. She also has reason to be cautious about Wilhelm on her brother’s behalf; we as the audience have a lot of insight into Wilhelm and his good intentions, but Sara doesn’t.

Likewise, it’s easy for us as an audience to look at August and go, damn, that boy is trouble. But for Sara she’s a character in a show, who hasn’t seen every scene he’s in, shot from telling angles. She doesn’t have the hindsight we do or the music cues or lighting cues or anything, and she’s dealing with all the show’s information as she learns it, and the information just keeps coming. She’s probably like… “Hm, August seems to feel bad about what he’s done. But he also says he needs me? Oh no he’s panicking. I think I’m getting through to him… or maybe I’m not… or maybe I am… whoops got distracted by his eyes there. Whoops, had sex about it. Maybe I should just give up and because everyone will hate me for this… or maybe… okay, how long should I give August to do the right thing? Should I give August an extension on doing the right thing because he seems to be under a lot of pressure from the palace right now? Does it even matter to Simon anymore? Maybe it doesn’t matter to Simon, he’s with Marcus now… Wait what, king? Wait, should I address the fact that August is taking unprescribed ADHD medication first? He says he’ll stop soon… but that’s what Dad said… now I’m worried…” And so on and so forth. People should think about any time when they were young that they sat on a secret too long (usually a secret you should have told an adult sooner) because of a crush or a best friend you cared about very much. That’s where Sara is, emotionally. Sara doesn’t vocalize all this in a literal, obvious way, but it comes out in other ways. We see her body language where she’s deciding whether to go to the dance with August or her friends. We see the way she sort of projects the idea that she can save August onto the idea of saving Rousseau. I think there’s a lot going on beneath the surface if you let yourself acknowledge that Sara has a rich interior world. She’s more conflicted than people give her credit for.

I know what you mean about fandom’s tendency to bash female characters, too. I’ve been in fandoms since the late 90s and my first fandom was Gundam Wing and… it was… not good about that kind of thing. Fortunately I’ve seen more posts lately where people are being reflective about the general Sara conversations. Of course it would always be nice to see more. So I guess I’m modeling what I’d like to see in the world and starting here!

(You can always message me about Sara if you want, anon. She’s my absolute favorite!)

[nivelaky]

wille is one ingenious public speaker

[suledins]

one step forward, two steps back…

[meg-is-just-another-fan-girl]

Young Royals Yearbook Photos

So those pictures they released got me thinking about what the characters' yearbook pages would look like. So I made them! I gave them all quotes under their photo too (I know that's more of a senior thing to do, but Hillerska's a bougie school so everyone gets to have a quote in my head). I also did 2 versions, 1 with a quote the character says in the show and 1 with a quote I found that I think matches the character/their arc. Enjoy!