Words Have Meaning

We don't want transwomen to be harmed, either physically or emotionally, and acknowledge that the majority of transwomen just want to go about their lives. We also acknowledge that some individuals are born intergender, and that others have actual dysphoria -- intense anxiety with regard to their genitals. What we object to is the way in which some trans activists want to intrude on female space and redefine the meanings of both words and ideas. We object to the notion that a man who has been raised with male privilege will make a "better" woman than an actual biological woman. Words have meanings. Violence is something that causes physical harm. Someone with an xy chromosome set is biologically male. Just because there are some men who wish they had a vagina doesn't make it a privilege to be born with one.

[pterodyketyl]

"I have said this often… I define woman, it does not define me. I define my clothes, they do not define me. No matter what section of a store I find my clothing in, once it’s mine, it is women’s clothing. And I accept that I am female, because I am – just in the way that I accept that I am black. Because not accepting it, does not save me from being treated as such. That doesn’t mean that I accept and internally apply patriarchy’s meaning to myself. It means that I arm myself with understanding and protect myself, as best I can, by being aware of my surroundings and the way my body informs my material reality."

-Nedra Johnson, Thoughts on "Non-Binary", Gender Identity Politics and the Material Reality of Being a Female in Patriarchy

[words-have-meaning]

Just because it’s a “coping mechanism” doesn’t mean it’s healthy.

People do a lot of things to cope with difficult experiences and/or painful emotions.

Some people drink or do drugs to excess.

Some people self-harm by cutting themselves or deliberately getting into fights at bars and other places.

Some people reenact their trauma on themselves. For example, some rape survivors begin to engage in unfulfilling sex, often under the influence of drugs. (By that, I mean, sex that they maybe don’t really want to engage in, with partners they don’t really feel a strong connection to.) Others subconsciously seek out romantic partners who will abuse them.

Some people reenact their trauma on others. For example, some who were abused as children go on to abuse their own children.

These choices shouldn’t be seen as “empowering” or “healthy” just because they are choices. We all love to believe that things we do are empowering by their very nature, but it’s clear that many choices are harmful to the body and/or the heart.

Choosing to engage in violent sex (including physical pain and allowing yourself to be called “cum dumpster” or whatever awful things a dom might call you) is a form of self-harm.

Choosing to engage in a relationship based on power imbalances, including DD/lg relationships and the like, is a form of self-harm.

It isn’t shameful that you’ve made that choice, any more than it is shameful to find yourself addicted to alcohol or heroin. We all make mistakes. We all are just fumbling through this life and trying our best to survive. Orgasms are powerful reward mechanisms, in their own way as intense as heroin, maybe more so because there is a social/emotional component to them.

You don’t have to decide today. All I ask is this: Please think about why you are in a relationship with someone who enjoys keeping you in a subordinate position, even if it’s “just a fantasy.” Why is that the fantasy you re-enact? What is it about power imbalance and/or pain and/or humiliation and/or the suggestion or enforcement of helplessness – what is it about these things that seems romantic or sexy to you?

You will not be harmed by thinking about this. Any choice you make that is truly healthy for you will bear up under any amount of scrutiny. Any time that people tell you not to think about something is the moment that you should wonder, “why is knowledge or thought dangerous to me? Why am I not allowed to think about this?”

I’m not shaming your choice. I still love you. All I ask is that you think about it.

I’m not suggesting that you are powerless or without agency. In fact, I believe very strongly in you and your ability to open your eyes and look at yourself, even if it means addressing some hard, ugly truths. Growth is so painful and I know first hand how hard it would be to come to terms with something like this because I used to do BDSM too.

I walked away from it because I was sick of crying after sex, sick of feeling like sex was something separate from love, feeling a strange and seemingly sourceless form of rage and fear when I thought about my lovers. I walked away from it, because the only thing worse than engaging in an unhealthy act for a year is engaging in an unhealthy act for a year and a day.

It’s never too late to walk away from something that is harming you.

[prophetmargarine-deactivated202]

wish like anybody understood that one of the most insidious things about the lgbT nonsense especially as a lesbian is being exposed to heinous dystopian nonsense on the daily and being expected to be like :) you do you :) people make different choices :) like i walk into the craft fair and 30% of the women have visible elective amputations :) i suddenly discover that an acquaintance's "husband" is a woman who despite being an extremely successful visible lesbian has decided in the past two years her life is unbearable unless she pretends to be a man for the remainder of her life and ropes her wife and children into the charade :) and the medical establishment agreed with her wretchedly hopeless assessment of her life and told her in their scientific opinion some percentage of lesbians are men who need to have their female organs removed or destroyed lest they be so emasculated they commit suicide :) my wife goes to the local org lawyer thing to talk about employment discrimination and the lesbian who helps her denies she is a woman and outside the office is a woman who is loudly impersonating a caricature of a gay man and has undergone life-shortening medical abuse to assist her in the life goal of having gay men approach her sexually :) this is a normal thing to encounter every single day and i am capable of acting normally in the face of it :)

[words-have-meaning]

It used to be that if you were born with a woman's body you had to behave "feminine" and if you were born with a man's body you had to behave "masculine."

Now, if you're born male but want to behave "feminine" you're expected to mutilate your body until it kind of looks like a woman's body, and if you're born female but want to behave "masculine" you' re expected to mutilate your body until it kind of looks like man's body. And if neither of those categories fits you, you have to just practically deny that you even have a body.

When will we just have permission to behave the way we want to without it having anything the fuck to do with our bodies?

[rneadowsoprano-deactivated20211]

I don’t even understand why people are so confused by today’s young people having less sex than previous generations of young people. Young men cannot maintain an erection unless they’re being incredibly rough and degrading and oftentimes watching a video of another man being much more violent to another woman and young women don’t actually want to be beaten and humiliated and like injured every time they have sex. Our expectations are not compatible

[thedepartmentofthoughtcrimes-de]

I see so many incredulous thinkpieces reaching for reasons why younger generations are having less sex, and yet the simplest explanation never seems to occur to these major publications. It’s porn addiction. An unprecedented, absolutely staggering number men today are porn addicted. A lot of them lack the drive to go find real-life women to interact with.

Those who do try to interact with real-life women find themselves unable to, because they’re too pornsick to understand that real women are not the male-centric objects porn makes us out to be. The few who actually make it to the point of having sex with a real-life woman find themselves unable to perform. Many of them have ED issues as a result of their porn addiction. Pretty much all of them have no idea how to please a woman since all they’ve ever seen is the pornified, male-centric version of sex acts.

Unsurprisingly these real-life sex encounters disappoint when they realize women are humans with real bodies and minds and preferences, not airbrushed sex dolls who automatically moan and fake orgasms when penis is inserted. They can’t make the woman cum. They can’t stay hard. They return to their phones. And the women they used are waking up more and more to the fact that pornsick men are useless in bed, and most men these days are porn-addicted, so why even bother? We have a lot of other ways we have fun that don’t involve men or porn.

So we (meaning straight and especially bi women) are losing any drive we previously had to sexually interact with men, via negative reinforcement. Sex with porn-addicted men is just awful. Men have Pornhub and Onlyfans and all those porn and cam sites where their lack of respect for women, lack of social skills, lack of personal grooming, etc... where none of that shit matters and they get to orgasm anyway.

It’s funny, the orgasm has always been one of nature’s most effective conditioning techniques to inspire humans to reproduce sexually and propagate the species for hundreds of millennia. But in this shitty postmodern hellword, men have hacked nature itself to revolve around their pleasure and their dicks, and nothing and no one else.

Congrats, men. You’ve done it. You have earned the right to sell your souls to Mindgeek and jerk your useless dicks into silly putty all day every day. Live out all your wildest dreams and fantasies in the comfort of your own dark, lonely bedrooms.

[antiporn-activist]

{depressed}

[bucketxyz]

“emasculating” is a euphemism for “demeaning in a way only women should have to suffer”

[d3nt4l-d4m4g3]

Gyns! it's Christmas!

This survey, Pelvic Pain in Transgender People Using Testosterone Therapy, from LGBT Health, collects data from 486 participants. It is the biggest study to date on pelvic pain in Trans men! The participants were on testosterone for an average of 32 months (2 years and 7 months).

The authors do acknowledge that because it is a self-reported survey, the data may not be perfectly representative of the true numbers. That's a huge flaw with many of the survey reports produced by trans ideology "researchers". There's every incentive to a trans person to answer positively to questions asking about how happy and euphoric they are after transitioning... But once one has agreed to answer the survey, there's not much incentive to lie about the various uterine, ovarian, and vaginal pains one is having. ya feel.

351 out of 486 participants—72.2%!— reported pelvic pain. That group is contrasted with the 122 participants who did not report pain, but did report other symptoms of pelvic/genital dysfunction. the discrepancies between some of the groups' figures may point to why one group experiences pelvic pain and the other doesn't.

for example, 19.1% of the group with pelvic pain were previously diagnosed with vulvodynia or vaginismus, versus 6.6% of the group without pelvic pain.

11.2 testosterone were diagnosed with endometriosis, versus 2.5% of the group without pelvic pain. This means that both vaginismus/vulvodyna and endometriosis are significant risk factor when considering taking testosterone.

interestingly, 35.1% of those with pelvic pain were currently or had previously suffered PTSD, versus 14% of the group with no pain. Also, the group with pain was about 20% more likely to have experienced trauma in their lives.

This is the most significant disparity in the study, and I wonder why. Why would PTSD cause such a level of physical pain? Well, for one thing, vulvodynia/vaginismus have been shown to be caused by chronic stressors. According to this study from the Journal of Women's Health,

Among women with a history of severe childhood abuse, those with vulvodynia had three times the odds of living in fear of any abuse compared to women without vulvodynia (95% confidence interval: 1.0, 11.0), after adjustment for childhood poverty. Among women with no history of childhood abuse, those with vulvodynia had over six times the odds of antecedent mood disorder compared to women without vulvodynia (95% confidence interval: 1.9,19.6).

So... the more stressed out and vulnerable and traumatized the person, the more pain she will likely be in in general, the worse she will physically feel on testosterone, and the faster she will feel it.

Also of note, look at the last survey question: those who had pelvic pain were less than half as likely to abstain from penetrative sex. Meaning penetrative sex for these women becomes a risk for tearing, bleeding, and infections because the vaginal epithelium becomes so thin on testosterone. It sucks that some of these people can't have the sex they enjoy, at least, not without pain. Buck Angel had sex on camera for years til his uterus became stuck to "his" cervix and filled with pus and exploded and "he" almost died from sepsis. And she's still making an empire out of her own self-torture, and getting off on it. Oh baby baby, it's a wild world.

Over half of these people are using pain killers to fight the pain... how often? Daily? (BTW, 10% of those using painkillers were using morphine as opposed to ibuprofun/paracetamol, which, I don't know if it's a lot compared to genpop, but it seems high for an opiate?) even if it isn't an abnormally high percentage, what I mean is that any kind of chronic, persistent, worsening, and intermittently exacerbated pain like this kind can lead seamlessly into drug addiction.

Remember that this disability is optional and medically unnecessary, and induced by medical professionals into the arms of the mentally ill. The professionals and the pharmaceutical companies make money by inducing the disability, and they get money to treat the recurring and worsening symptoms of that disability ad infinitum...

Here are the conclusions of the study.

Conclusions

Until further evidence is available, a tailored multidisciplinary trauma-informed approach addressing the needs of the individual with pelvic pain should be provided, which may encompass pain management, sexual function, addressing persistent menstruation, and mental health.

never do they suggest the obvious: that to minimize pain, testosterone needs to be denied, period. full stop.

[words-have-meaning]

Maybe TERF really stands for "testosterone excluding, really fearful" after all. Because we're worried about all the women told that they aren't allowed to be "masculine" unless they are men, and shown that they won't be safe from further harm until their femininity is burned off slowly and painfully, because we're worried and we care, we're told we're the bad ones here. The gaslighting is overwhelming. It's like there's just a huge gas leak and all of society is breathing it in.

[moonapartment-blog]

learning the truth about TERFs is like learning the resident evil witch is just a nice old lady that wants to live peacefully and have basic rights and a herb garden

[redheddebeauty]

Women who help & prioritize women and don’t put up with male bs are always demonized under patriarchy. That’s why witches were persecuted. That’s why radfems are persecuted now.

[d3nt4l-d4m4g3]

Home

Gender at your fingertips. The sources we use are selected for their reliability. We mostly use peer-reviewed papers; however, we occ

Take a look at this site for links to studies on the outcomes of transition! including the impacts of tucking, binding, hormones, surgery, detransition, and the demographic intersections of autism, homosexuality, mental health issue and social contagion within the trans movement!

[d3nt4l-d4m4g3]

@thefearfullone

Your source proves that the pronoun "they" has been used singularly for hundreds of years. But it doesn't prove that the singular they has been used in this context.

I was born in 2000, and I never met a nonbinary-identifying person until I was 15. Upon meeting that person I remember struggling for weeks with the grammar for her, terrified to mess up. Later I would also identify as nonbinary for 3 years, and now I'm embarrassed that I put everyone around me under that unnecessary stress and irritation. I don't need to be special like that.

it's dishonest to assert that you are not inconveniencing people with your narcissism because the pronoun is (arguably) grammatically correct. It has been historically used in place of gendered pronouns when the gender of the subject is not known ("someone who came to the party has forgotten their scarf").

it is not socially correct and never has been, to demand everyone use the pronoun "they" for you because you believe you have a gender. everyone who sees you knows what sex you are and they treat you accordingly, even if you're trans and you think you pass. Nobody passes as nonbinary. It's insulting and demeaning for normal people to try and pretend like they don't see what sex you are and I encourage you to grow out of it

[sirfrogsworth]

Okay, I have two jokes in response to this.

Pick your favorite...

Or...

[words-have-meaning]

See, it's funny because women's vaginas are funny and it's also funny because you fail utterly in addressing the substance of what the OP is saying.

It is a never ending source of bewilderment to me that kind, gentle, thoughtful people, like Frogman, who is such a sweetie -- people who demonstrate care and concern for everyone suddenly lose sight of how kindness works when it comes to women talking about issues of substance that don't fit with the trans narrative. Most trans people just want to love happy healthy lives and that's totally fine. But those who want to redefine womanhood without including our lived reality end up silencing us on key issues.

And then it becomes one of those same situations I face whenever I talk about sexism, where nothing I say can sway people to understand or believe me. I say, this happened to me. People say, that was just your experience. I say, this is what happened multiple times. People say, prove it. I say, here is what research shows. People say, yeah, I'm not reading that, you feminazi. Only now, they call me Terf instead.

I wish people actually listened. They are so busy hating us in advance that they never do. I have never wished harm on a trans person in my life (not for the mere fact of being trans, that's for sure). I just want women to continue to have access to women only spaces. I want young gender non conforming people to not feel obligated to transition if they just like to dress how they like to dress. I dont want people to change their already perfect bodies because society tells them you're not allowed to have long hair unless you have boobs and not allowed to skip makeup unless you're full of T. My wishes and concerns are heartfelt and rooted in love. But my POV is terrifying and it's easier for people to put their fingers in their ears and yell TERF until I go away.

So yeah, hoo-hah. Super funny. It's so funny I forgot all about how women still can't talk about vaginas or menstruation.

[therougec3poaskedfor]

I want to ask a question before I get into this: what is your definition of womanhood?

I can probably guess, but I’d like to hear it from you first. Personally my definition of womanhood is anyone who calls themself a woman or identifies as such. Why? Because women come in all shapes and sizes, all types of DNA makeups, and all types of different experiences. Every single person on this planet is going to have a different experience in their life, even if they find connection in people who have had the same or similar experiences, individually they are going to react differently or handle it differently.

So what’s this “lived reality” that only “real” women experience? The one that separates “real” women and trans women? Is it periods? Pregnancy? Being catcalled or harassed? Cause guess what? Not every woman experiences these things. Saying that “real women” have periods is dismissing every woman post menopause, or who simply never got one. Pregnancy? Not every woman can get pregnant- shit some of them come out with only have an ovary or not anything in there at all. Are they excluded from your idea of womanhood even though they’ve lived their lives decidedly as a woman? It’s not rape, or being put under undue stress from childhood expectations of gender, or even misogyny at its finest. If it’s the belief that young girls are treated differently then boys, sure I can see that… but does that happen to everyone? Is every little girl forced to wear dresses and “act like a lady”? Is every little boy forced to “man up” and “stop crying”? Sure there’s a lot of people who can say those things happen to them, fuck I can say it’s happened to me. That doesn’t make a solid argument to separate trans women from the experience of womanhood.

How many trans women grow up being told they have to do things like a boy, only to feel indifferent or even wrong about the experience? The same could be said for cis women, and this is not to discount how young girls are treated in society as this othered thing, but how hard is it to also consider that trans people have that same experience? Of being othered? Of facing sexist remarks like, “don’t be a fag, cissy, quit acting like a girl” as if it’s a bad thing to be a woman? You’re either unintentionally or intentionally blaming trans women for the problems that society and the patriarchy have forced on you. On hundreds of thousands of women.

You’ve decided that trans women are the ones who want you to shut up about your experiences, when that’s literally not true. Asking to be included in the conversation of sexism is not asking for cis women to be excluded. If you would genuinely listen to these women and their experiences of transitioning and learning to navigate their own version of womanhood you would see that you’re not that different. Not the same, nobody ever is, but not that different either.

And insofar as having “women only” spaces that you want to exclude trans women from, that in and of itself is saying that “I do not consider trans women to be real women and I want a space away from them”. Are all people who are assigned female at birth supposed to go to these spaces then? Even if, surprise, they don’t have the same experience as you? Even if they don’t identify as a woman? Should big burly trans men be allowed in these spaces, since their for “real women”? How shocked would you be to walk into a bathroom and see someone who presents as male in the womens bathroom, forced to be there because of their sex organs? Would you be uncomfortable then? Think it was a man invading womens spaces? Or is that only something you decide trans women should have to bear the brunt of? Even if they pass to your standards of “womanhood”?

Do I personally think every trans person needs to take medicine to transition? No, because not every trans person wants that. But to deny access to the trans kids and adults who have decided this is something that they want that would benefit them is cruel. By removing the limits of what gender presentation should be, you are allowed to access what it can be. Men who dress in long flowing dresses, comfortable in their masculinity, or women who shave their hair and decide to go by Bob but still She/Her, or simply allowing people to live their lives without trying to decide that a certain set of genitalia will decide their life experiences.

You want women only spaces, then tell me what you’re definition of a woman is.

[words-have-meaning]

You and I agree that people's lives and behaviors should not be defined by their genitals. That's actually kind of my point.

I think that you are probably a really nice person, and that you and I would agree on many things, like the importance of gun control, access to abortion care, the goal of equality between races and genders, the importance of protecting the environment, and so on.

But nothing in your comments to me above indicate to me that you understand my point of view even a little, or that you're interested in discussing this in good faith. Nearly everything you said above is such a gross misstatement of my views that it enters strawman territory. I don't have the strength in my hands to type a reply long enough to explain, and I doubt you'd read it. You're interested in catching me, in "getting" me, in proving me wrong. There isn't even a 0.0001% chance that you'll actually think over the things I'll say.

So I'll have to decline this debate, the same way I'd decline debating gun rights with a gun nut. I wish you well, though, because I know you think you're fighting the good fight and you want to make the world a better place. That's great! I also hope that someday you figure out what a woman is (or realize that you already know, and have already known all along).

[sirfrogsworth]

Okay, I have two jokes in response to this.

Pick your favorite...

Or...

[words-have-meaning]

See, it's funny because women's vaginas are funny and it's also funny because you fail utterly in addressing the substance of what the OP is saying.

It is a never ending source of bewilderment to me that kind, gentle, thoughtful people, like Frogman, who is such a sweetie -- people who demonstrate care and concern for everyone suddenly lose sight of how kindness works when it comes to women talking about issues of substance that don't fit with the trans narrative. Most trans people just want to love happy healthy lives and that's totally fine. But those who want to redefine womanhood without including our lived reality end up silencing us on key issues.

And then it becomes one of those same situations I face whenever I talk about sexism, where nothing I say can sway people to understand or believe me. I say, this happened to me. People say, that was just your experience. I say, this is what happened multiple times. People say, prove it. I say, here is what research shows. People say, yeah, I'm not reading that, you feminazi. Only now, they call me Terf instead.

I wish people actually listened. They are so busy hating us in advance that they never do. I have never wished harm on a trans person in my life (not for the mere fact of being trans, that's for sure). I just want women to continue to have access to women only spaces. I want young gender non conforming people to not feel obligated to transition if they just like to dress how they like to dress. I dont want people to change their already perfect bodies because society tells them you're not allowed to have long hair unless you have boobs and not allowed to skip makeup unless you're full of T. My wishes and concerns are heartfelt and rooted in love. But my POV is terrifying and it's easier for people to put their fingers in their ears and yell TERF until I go away.

So yeah, hoo-hah. Super funny. It's so funny I forgot all about how women still can't talk about vaginas or menstruation.

[words-have-meaning]

well, I was blocked from further commentary on that previous post, so let me say what I wanted to say here.

So some people seem to think I was referencing the Nashville shooting. If I had been referencing the Nashville shooter, you're right, that would have been... idk the words. It was so far from what I was thinking about that it didn't even occur to me that people would interpret it that way, and when someone replied talking about "deaths of children" I honestly had no idea what they were talking about.

For the record, I blame the Nashville shooting on lack of gun control and lack of access to mental health resources.

I was thinking of Chris Chan, who raped his elderly mother over and over and over. When he was arrested, people were like "well, no matter what she did, she deserves respect." So that man, that man, for him, people were like "well, even so, gotta respect the pronouns. SHE raped HER mother, people." Like, eww.

JK Rowling isn't my favorite person on the planet -- I don't like her books, and I hate the racist/antisemitic undertones to the stuff she makes -- but it just strikes me as bizarre that people give Chris Chan more respect than they give JK Rowling. Like, for Chris Chan, it's respect all the way down, but for a non-murderer/non-rapist, it's just like, "LET'S INSULT POOR PEOPLE AND IT'S TOTALLY OK." People's hatred for JK Rowling turns them into complete assholes. It's extraordinary. People who normally are super tolerant and accepting and kind and loving. They just turn into the nastiest, grossest people when JK Rowling comes up. She's like, an emotional punching bag for everyone's darkest thoughts. Moments like this really show that to me.

That's what I was talking about. If anyone cares.

[d3nt4l-d4m4g3]

r/ftm about damage from binding, all posted within the past year. 

Binding is not safe. I was only on testosterone for 3 months and was relatively unscathed, but I was binding for a year and a half, 6-8 hours a day (what is considered “safe binding practice”). and that also may not sound like a lot of time, but I cannot wear bras anymore, over 2 years after I stopped binding. not even wireless, soft bralettes because if i wear one my ribs hurt and i have shooting pains when I breathe. 

Safe binding is an oxymoron.

[nansheonearth]

Reblog this if you’re 30+ years old and in the radfem tumblr orbit.

[cheddar-baby]

babish bigot embarrassment

[mommy-mortis]

[aeliad]

Neutrality isn’t an option when one side literally believes the other shouldn’t exist.

[words-have-meaning]

Please cite one (1) time when JK Rowling argued for trans people to be put to death or removed from society or in any other way not allowed to "exist."

[getoffmyastroturf]

u don’t gotta be mean to people, if they want to be women just let them it’s not hurting you at all ):

How are they women? How am I “mean”?

[spencer-shayy-archive]

“Want to be women” I’m going to vomit

[moonbeastess]

“just let them” - I got news for you chillibud, we are not preventing them from wanting to be women, and we also don’t have the power (cause no one does) to change material reality and “let them” turn into women. also… “it’s not hurting you at all” is pretty demonstrably untrue, but just go ahead and ask all the women who are being booted out of sports and politics to make room for the people who want to be women.

[chillibud-deactivated20180820]

If you think women are being kicked out of sports and politics to make room for trans people then I have news that will probably not shock you but likely make you very happy,, that’s literally not true at all?? Trans women have to fight really hard for any success they achieve, and are still shit on by people like you who claim they’re some menace to society when in reality you just want to feel like you’re in some cool exclusive vagina club and have zero empathy for the trans people who have suffered and struggled not only with who they are but in where they stand as people. After decades of being treated like less than human and being killed for who they are, you try n tell me that they’re pushing women out of safe spaces, pushing women out of politics and sports?? you’re wrong

[getoffmyastroturf]

Someone missed the whole Hubbard weightlifting bs, or old fuckboi and the U.K. Labour Party debacle (and that’s only the latest in a long line of this shit).

If you’re not even going to keep up w what’s happening in the world, then please don’t labour under the impression you have anything useful to contribute.

[chillibud-deactivated20180820]

Sorry but you can’t bring up nonissues and call them valid evidence for your case when you’re just upset that trans women accomplished something??

[getoffmyastroturf]

Trans women in women’s sports

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/99205944/transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-makes-history-with-commonwealth-games-selection

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2017/12/20/transgender-volleyball-player-tiffany-abreu-brazil

https://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/item/25699-transgenders-on-the-field-when-men-dominate-women-s-sports

https://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-famous-transgender-athletes/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/hockey/2016/10/07/harrison-browne-transgender-athlete-nwhl-buffalo-beauts/91733914/

http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-22/sport-is-in-transition-whether-you-like-it-or-not/9074436

I don’t normally say this to children, but you need to stfu.

[chillibud-deactivated20180820]

Alright well I don’t like arguing with people who pretend to be more mature than me (because clearly low jabs are not going to help any argument you have? lol) but I do appreciate your links, however you’ve completely missed my point. I think trans people in sports is a GREAT thing because it’s a big accomplishment for the trans community after years and years of oppression. Nobody said they weren’t their. I told you it was a nonissue. As in. Not a problem. Just because you have a burning hatred for them does not mean that there is automatically something wrong with them being there. I asked you what the issue with them being there was. If you can’t answer that, then I have no more to say (:

[getoffmyastroturf]

What about the CENTURIES wome fought to be able to compete????? And now it’s all taken away by a bunch of entitled men who literally spent 4-5 years doing it? Nah.

And you are a child, what are you, 16? You can’t even vote yet! Also willing to bet if you get to deep in a fight you pull the “I can’t believe you’re fighting w a child!!!!” so…..

[chillibud-deactivated20180820]

Well no I don’t do that lmao because I’m not a stupid little brat and my age does not discredit my opinions on anything. Technically i picked this fight with you so if I did that wouldn’t i be a huge hypocrite? I don’t consider myself a child either, we’re actually called adolescents so jot that down (:

And based on your point, we all know women fought for centuries and now we can and that’s progress at its finest. Obviously we still have work to do there but that’s beside the point. We’ve fought so hard to compete and know how it feels to be told by people that we’re not allowed, that we’re not able, that it’s not our place. As someone who is oppressed it is honestly laughable that you can be so hateful to another group?? They just want to be accepted for who they are and you have so little respect for them that you would kick them out of sports

idk about you but that kind of reminds of, oh, I don’t know, how women were treated? How poc were treated? How gay people were treated? funny, that

[getoffmyastroturf]

A 16 y/o has no real lived experience, especially it seems those who get all their ideas from the Internet instead of real life. I’ve raised 2 kids, I’m well aware 16 y/o think they’re all grown up, but you are still children. And both my children would agree on that.

So you’re saying, that after centuries of fighting for it, we’ve had enough time being able to compete and should stand aside for men? That makes absolutely no sense. Why should we? Why should we step aside for these men who, for the most part, we’re not good enough to compete against other males and then suddenly went “ok, but, like I’m a woman now”.

Liberal feminism is so reductive men literally have you fighting other women on behalf of them.

Your last paragraph is a complete strawman.

[chillibud-deactivated20180820]

Lmao call me a child all you want, it doesn’t change anything. You don’t know anything about me or my life and I don’t know about yours, nor do I care.

I don’t know why you’ve convinced yourself that people are kicking women out to make room for trans women, because nobody’s denying women the opportunity to compete at all? And don’t try to pull the “men are physically stronger than women!!” Argument because while generally you are correct, there’s no arguing with biology, but are you aware what the affects of HRT do to the human body?? It’s incredibly weakening. Trans women have no advantage over women in sports, if anything they are at a disadvantage.

PS, calling arguments you don’t want to respond to “a straw man” is quite the cop out lol

[chillibud-deactivated20180820]

Oh, and I would love to see any evidence you have of men pretending to be women because they weren’t good enough in men’s sports because that’s quite literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, how could you possibly convince yourself that these people would go through extremely stressful processes and procedures just to end up having to deal with nasty people like you ?? it’s a joke

[getoffmyastroturf]

Because they get treated like the most specialist snowflakes by uninformed idiots like you.

[radwitchescauldron]

Female athlete speaking. I was on an athletic team in high school, but it was still a new enough thing to be a big deal. In fact, I competed on a boys team. And honestly, I get why the coach was less than totally thrilled to have me on the team. I worked out like mad, practicing an hour before school every day, I’d show up to home room with my hair still damp from the shower. I got special permission (which was only granted because I was an honors student) to spend study hall doing strength and flexibility exercises. Then team practice after school for an hour and a half. Then 2 nights a week of dance practice because my mom thought that was a better activity for me to be doing so I wouldn’t be so bulky. I was a powerhouse. And with all that work, I was still slightly below the average performance of the guys. I have a story about working my ass off to come in 6th. Because everyone else in the competition was male. My arms and legs were shorter than any other person competing. My lung capacity was smaller. My body did not build muscle as readily.

Even assuming every athlete taking a girls spot on a team was on hrt (which is not the case), hrt doesn’t actually force your muscles to atrophy if you are still exercising them. It does nothing to bone structure, such as longer limbs and different attachment points, nor does it change stuff like the difference in balance. It doesn’t reduce lung capacity.

Nor does artificial testosterone produce changes that will allow female athletes to compete against male athletes. There is a reason that females are not displacing males from athletic competition but males are displacing females. As much as people like to pretend differently, there are physical differences between the sexes. These do impact physical activities like sports.

[appropriately-inappropriate]

Weekend Warrior Male golfer transitions, auditions for the LPGA:

“I am not looking for sympathy here,” she said. “Perhaps it is to be expected when trying to combine a 63-year-old end-of-competitive-life transgendered woman, semiretired physician with 20-somethings (who are) fit and at the start of their careers. …

"But it’s my choice. It’s where I feel my game is most on an even playing field.”

So there’s a senior male taking a limited spot from a young woman in a hyper-competitive field, feeling sorry for himself because the other competitors… what, aren’t friendly? Can’t possibly imagine why!

And then of course: female on testosterone beats other females: surprising nobody, news at 6.

“Testosterone and anabolic steroids are in the same family and have the effect of increasing muscle mass and strength gains,” Mines said. The UIL’s rules prohibit illegal steroid use, with the exception of those prescribed by doctors for “valid medical purposes.” Beggs use of testosterone has not barred him from the competition. Beggs hasn’t challenged the rules because he doesn’t want to risk losing his ability to participate.

“Beggs hasnt challenged the rules because he doesn’t want to risk losing his ability to participate.” Yeah, I can just imagine. Prurient self-interest strikes again!

And here’s a male student who hasn’t even gone on androgen blockers, running races against female students and — surprise surprise — winning:

He told the Courant that his daughter will begin consultations about hormonal treatment in June. As for Andraya Yearwood’s first-place finishing times in the girls races, the Day reported that Yearwood ran the 100-meter final in 12.66 seconds and the 200-meter final in 26.08. According to Northeast Sports Timing, the last-place times in the boys 100-meter and 200-meter Class M finals were 11.73 seconds and 25.59 seconds, respectively.

So what that means is that Andraya’s race times were so slow that she would have ranked literally last in the male heats, but enabled her to smoke the competition in the female heats.

Wow. It’s almost like male runners have a natural competitive advantage due to stride length, muscle density and lung capacity!

But hey, let’s hear what the girls have to say about it:

“It’s frustrating,” Kate Hall of Stonington High School (last year’s first place finisher) told the Courant. “But that’s just the way it is now. I can’t really say what I want to say, but there’s not much I can do about it.”

“That’s the way it is now.” She was in tears, and rightfully so. There go her chances at a scholarship. All because a male wants to have a chance at competing and wouldn’t hack it with the men’s.

But hey. A picture says a thousand words, right?

I’m having difficulty picking out the trans woman in the lineup. Maybe you can point her out, @chillibud

[words-have-meaning]

This individual blocks people who point out the obvious, so I will repeat myself.

Let me spell this out.

If someone says, “x as well as y,” the included meaning is that x is not y. For example, if someone said, “I enjoy all beverages, and that includes felines as well as cats,” it would be bizarre because cats are a kind of feline. No one would say that.

So when you say “ciswomen as well as real women,” your included meaning is that you do not believe that ciswomen are real women. The only kind of woman who is not a ciswoman, is, in your lexicon, a transwoman. Thus, you are saying that transwomen are the only real kind of woman, and that ciswomen are not real women.

Libfems, these are the gods you worship. Men in wigs who believe in a misogyny deeper and more harmful than anything that the average MRA says.

Let it be seen, and let it be known. You hate radfems for claiming that transwomen aren’t women. But transwomen themselves are happily proclaiming that ciswomen aren’t women.

OP, you are not supporting women with comments like this, and you know that. In fact, your later comments on your post, delighting that “TERFS” are “big mad” about your comments. Did you explain that you mean no harm to women? Nope. You’re proud of your menace, of your superior aggressive posture in your avatar photo. It’s positively masculine, isn’t it?

Your proclamation is *just* one step away from saying what you mean, and so you can hide behind a label of “ooh, that’s not what I meant to say and you know it.” You do not mean women well when you say that you are “doing” womanhood better than women-born-women.

You are not my sister, OP. You are not a woman. You will never be one. No matter how you mutilate your body or lie to yourself on the daily, you will never be a woman.

[words-have-meaning]

a woman struggling with misogyny: "I have decided to embrace and love my body! Fuck yeah my vulva is awesome! I want to start romanticizing my period and making cute vulva cupcakes because they make me feel better about the body I am oppressed for having."

liberals: "Ew, gross!"

a woman struggling with misogyny: "I have decided to take testosterone and get plastic surgery because I hate my body so fucking much. Please don't ever remind me about the material reality of my body, I don't want to have to face those issues head on, I want to spend the rest of my life believing I don't have the body I was born with."

liberals: "Wow!! You are so brave and making the correct choice!! Your requests to have us never discuss material reality is completely reasonable!"