Also I just. Genuinely how am I supposed to take "Alastor was tasked with legitimately killing all the egg boys and instead he took them on a walk, warned them off from pissing off a powerful overlord, used one as a spy, and then returned them all home safely to the excitement of Sir Pentious (while never being aware that Pentious had changed Vaggi's mind about his keeping them)."
Like, sir. You just babysat that man's kids. And this was your OWN decision. No one asked you to do this. In fact they asked the opposite.
What am I supposed to think here, Alastor?
You let this man fight you regularly. Barely injure him every time so he comes back. Ragebait him into keeping at it by pretending you don't remember him. And then, when you're told to kill his weird little egg minions you take them on a field trip.
I have to say, I REALLY feel like this scene where Charlie implies that her mother made her feel like she was "a meaningless person" absolutely deserves more discussion by the Fandom. Both because it explains SO much about Charlie as a character and her motivations and insecurities, but also because...it is just so fucking SAD.
Like, the WAY Charlie says this is just so painful. Its not in a "Oh I just realized this way" it's more in a way that implies she ALWAYS felt this way with mom. That she ignored her, made her feel meaningless. That she hurt her in this way. And I think something that sticks out to me is how Charlie DOESN'T sound angry. She doesnt say it in a mad way. Its just sad acceptance. Like "yeah. Mom was just....like that...."
And I know some might question why it is Charlie doesnt HATE Liliith or at least resent her the same way she does Lucifer. And I think it comes down to Charlie...AGREEING with that idea of her being meaningless in comparison to Lilith's responsibilities. I mentioned this in previous post, but Charlie and Lilith's situation is basically that of a parent who had a really important job that ate up a lot of their time and a child who saw how important that job was and thus devalued herself because of it. Charlie says it herself, Lilith was the voice of the people. She was the queen of Hell. And that meant more then Charlie. Compared to all of Hell, Charlie probably figured she WAS meaningless. SHE wasn't as important as their kingdom. In Charlie's eyes, whereas Lucifers neglect felt like it was due to him just not wanting to see her, Lilith's neglect was just a byproduct of her important duties. That being the ruler of Hell meant more than spending time with Charlie.
And again, this DESERVES more attention. Because, to me at least, its right up there with Steven Universes "I didn't even know my mom" in terms of how ir presents a new side to the protagonist.
Rewatching Season 2, and among the MANY amazing Vox and Charlie parallels I've noticed (which I will do a deep dive on at some point):
While primarily Lilith plays the role in Charlie's emotional journey Alastor plays in Vox's (the person who rejected them they desperately want to prove themselves too), Charlie also has another person - an enemy who hates her and does not have her best wishes at heart - that she spends the whole season hyper-fixating on impressing, winning over, defeating, proving wrong.
Vox himself.
It escalates throughout the season, but she hardly ever talks about "The Vees" as a group, even before Vox shows up in 2x05 and proves himself to be a bigger threat than she thought.
(Continued below the cut)
In her interview with Katie, she doesn't mention Velvette. :
"Well, as you know, Vox paid a visit to our hotel recently, yes, and he lied about everything that--"
Even though Velvette clearly played as much of a role in the tape as Vox did, Charlie singles him out specifically. Throuhgout the rest of the interview, it's "He". She's, as Vaggie points out, hyperfixating on what he's saying about her - him specifically, despite all of VoxTek being involved in this. Charlie's specifically mad at him.
She then, as soon as she gets Sera, Emily, Abel and Lute's attention, decides to do the totally not stupid thing of dragging them to Vox's rally to apologize, to "Show them all he's a liar". She continues to hyper-fixate on Vox specifically and trying to prove him wrong about things, him specifically. At this point it's turned into a grudge.
"Vaggie: Because you aren't listening to me. You're hyper-fixating on what he's saying about you.
Charlie: Because he's hurting the hotel, he is ruining—
Vaggie: Charlie! You are hurting the hotel! I know it sucks what Vox is doing, but you're playing his game."
Basically Vaggie says what I've been s saying. And of course this scene could just as easily take place between Vox and Val. This is of course exactly the problem between the Vees - Vox isn't listening to his partners and hyper-fixating on what Alastor is saying about him. And it causes him to push his friends away just as Charlie does hers.
And in the finale, when Vox taunts her, it makes her cry. Adam said shitty things about her all the time in season 1 and she never broke into tears over it. It comes across like Charlie is specifically upset about the fact that Vox doesn't like her. As people have pointed out, it's a general problem both characters have, that of needing everyone to like them regardless. But still, Vox is fixated on Alastor's approval because he rejected his affection in the past, which isn't the case of Vox and Charlie. So why the parallel hyper fixation?
I think the issue is that Vox actually challenges her. And he brings up points she doesn't know how to counter in 2x03. He points out she has no proof, and she can't argue with that. He points out she doesn't know how redemption works and roasts her attempts to do it with Angel, including some of her definitely ridiculous ideas ("give a hobo a dime" seriously Charlie WTF!?). He points out her "self-sacrifice" set up for Angel doesn't actually pose a risk and forces her to try it for real. He points out she doesn't know how to redeem someone for being a "murderer". All of these are genuinely good points, despite coming from a villain. And Charlie can't counter them.
Her one moment of victory over him is when eh asks if she thinks he can be redeemed and she says 'anyone can be'. But otherwise, the problem is that while he fabricates shit on the air, he also points out all of her real mistakes. Vox forces Charlie to confront her own flaws in a way that Velvette or Adam do not, or anyone else really. Adam didn't hit on Charlie's real flaws, he just ran his mouth off so he was easy to ignore.
So if Charlie can prove Vox wrong, she won't have to actually think about all the good criticisms he brought up. He does something similar with the Angels in 2x05, where he brings up real criticisms about what they've done. "Apologizing for genocide with gift baskets" is not that different from what Charlie thinks, she even green lights this project. Just as she thinks "giving a hobo a dime" is somehow the path to redemption. And Vox, though of course he's doing it for selfish and not righteous reasons, calls the angels out on this, and by proxy Charlie.
I think this is why Charlie is so fixated on proving Vox wrong, him specifically. If she can prove he's a liar and a monster and write him off as just some stupid villain who doesn't know what he's talking about, she doesn't have to think about any of the valid points he brought up about her. She's really sensitive to criticism, has trouble taking it even from her girlfriend. Vox gets upset about Alastor's (often hollow) criticisms in a similar way because he can't counter them no matter what he does.
Both characters are stuck in a place where they don't want to ever have to deal with being wrong. Now, by the season 2 finale both of them are at least able to do that with their nearest and dearest (Charlie apologizes to Vaggie in 2x06 and gives up her position, Vox admits 'Maybe I went too far' to Val and Vel and has now lost his position). But interestingly, neither has yet to deal with the genuinely valid criticisms their nemeses brought up.
Vox obviously can't deal with Alastor's criticisms. But Charlie hasn't really addressed any of Vox's points either. She hasn't figured out how redemption works or really made it up to Angel for what she did. I think an interesting question going forward is: will Charlie just write Vox off as some asshole whose points she doesn't need to listen to, or will she actually take the time to acknowledge and address them?
Regardless of where things go, I just found this parallel really interesting, and I think it makes Vox and Charlie's parallels an interesting dynamic to dive into going forward.
Alastor's better then me cause if Rosie came up to me with the "why don't you help them?" my response would have been "bitch HOW?!"
Your telling me that you want me to help with an angelic nuclear bomb powered by the second strongest being in creation when I'm at the weakest I've ever been in my time it hell? With the thing I use to channel my power broken? The thing you have previously refused to fix?
I'm not saying that he's better then me because he threatened to let everyone die (even though I think it was an empty threat). I'm saying he's better then me because I would have lost my temper.
"There's no way Abel is straight?!" Okay, so, why are we assuming that a soft, gentle, considerate, and sensitive man must automatically be queer? Why are we assuming a straight man can't possibly be those things? Straight men CAN be those qualities too and be respected and loved, and it's a wonderful decision on the writer's part to show it. It's the same "queer people have to be unrealistically sanitized and perfect and innocent in every media so the audiences will accept them" in reverse. In an attempt to be progressive, we're turning 180 back to conservative again.
another reason i love alastor is because he's for the people with Disorders.
the absolute worst thing to ever ever EVER happen to a disordered person, especially those of us with anxiety based disorders (or disorders with a side effect of anxiety) is for our fears and/or unhealthy coping mechanisms to be validated. and in most media where a disordered character takes the focus, writers try to show them Not being validated, to show that the Disorder is Lying and you can get better!! the disorder is lying to you and you need to know that!
but alastor? oh hell no. every fear and maladaptive habit he has is validated over and over, and it just pushes him further into his poor coping mechanisms and one day it's gonna get him. oh it's gonna.
analysis posted per the request of my honorable mutual @alastor-insanity, who got to hear all this first. when the dm reply reads "you should post this actually," who am i to refuse the call?
i think specifically of his hyperindependence. in the season 1 finale, alastor remarks to niffty that the hotel crew is enough to "make one sentimental." i genuinely don't think that he was lying in that moment. he didn't really have a reason to. he was starting to care a bit for these people, and maybe he even slightly believed that they cared back. yet, in the back of his head, he likely kept telling himself that they didn't care, that he shouldn't care, that the only person he can rely on is himself and it will Always be like that.
and then he loses to adam. and no one gives a shit. no one asks if he's okay, no one erects a statue or painting to honor his (for all they know) death, no one even inquires about him. and alastor is validated for his disordered thinking; he's proven right. he receives the negative reinforcement he was expecting and it only pushes him further and further down this trail.
in season 2, alastor goes to rosie and, in his own way, asks for help. he asks for her to fix his staff because that was part of their deal, and while unfortunate, rosie is one of the only other things he can rely on besides himself and his power because she's granted it to him. rosie says no, so alastor immediately launches himself into a plan independent of rosie, of any of the hotel crew, and hell, something that while intelligent is so damn impulsive and you can tell he wasn't quite happy with those consequences, despite getting what he wanted. and that's the thing...he ends up getting what he wants. he's free from rosie, he can fix his own staff. his disorder behavior is rewarded because he receives what he initially asked for help for, all by himself.
alastor's worldview, one where he believes that the only reliant person that will ever exist is himself, is not a healthy one. it prevents not only interpersonal relationships, but also one's own personal growth, and causes a ton of damage to someone's mental state. most people expect for their disordered worldviews to be challenged, because the thoughts are disordered and, at their core, incorrect, born from trauma rather than fact.
alastor is a unique representation in media because his disordered behaviors and thoughts are constantly validated, rewarded, and reinforced. as someone who experiences the same thing in my own life, i genuinely can't think of any other obviously disordered character who is heavily reinforced like this. and it's so refreshing.
but oh, is it going to be heartbreaking to keep watching.
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